"Noobcraft" is an idea to make the game a little more fleshed out, by slowing down the early tiers of the game. In other words, you'll spend a little more time as a "noob", before you get to move on to bigger and better things. Everything in this mod will be designed to make getting established take just a little bit longer. What will those things be?
No more punching wood! You will have to break leaves to get saplings, and craft those into sticks at a one-to-one ratio. (Forge support for non-vanilla saplings and logs preferred.)
New Tool: The Knife! Your first knife will be the Primitive Knife, a low durability tool made from any combination of two flint and/or bone. Later tiers will use their own materials, and have more durability. A knife is needed to turn saplings into sticks, and can also craft leather into Leather Strips, a new material needed to make tools and armour. Knives lose durability from crafting.
No more wood picks and axes! Both the Wood Pick and the Wood Axe will be replaced. The pick for a Bone Pick using one stick, one Leather Strip, and two bones. The axe will have a similar recipe, but using flint to make a Flint Hatchet. Like the wood tools they replace, these are slow, and don't have much durability.
Wood Swords? Not exactly! The wooden sword will remain, but as little more than a toy. It gets a damage reduction to be just as weak as fists. In its place, players will need to start off with a Flint Sword instead. However, as a slight nod to all the games that have players start with a wooden sword, the original Wood Sword should gain the highest enchantability of everything.
Using the wrong tool is no good! If you try to break a block with the wrong tool, not only will it not drop anything, it won't break at all (using the right tool but the wrong tier will still destroy the block with no drops). The only thing you'll get for your trouble is some durability taken away. Of course, if the "tool" you used was your fist...well, what do you think a player's "durability" is?
Raw foods aren't healthy! Not just rotten flesh, not just spider eye, not just chicken, but all uncooked meats will have negative effects.
Your furnace is not good enough! That's right, this mod will get rid of the furnace altogether! In it's place, three different workstations, for three different tasks. No skipping ahead.
The Kiln: This replaces the basic furnace in recipe and looks, but not in function. In fact, it's very limited. It can cook clay into bricks, clay blocks into hardened clay, cobblestone into stone, wood into charcoal, and sand into glass. In a pinch, it can cook meat to eliminate the penalties, but the result is a Charred meat, that offers only the lowest tier of nourishment (though with normal saturation).
The Brick Oven: As you might imagine, the brick oven takes bricks to make. With a 3x3 interface and a fuel slot, it is the only way to cook proper meals. That means that not only will normal cooked meat require cooking in a Brick Oven, instead of a Kiln, but indeed any food item that previously used the crafting grid to make. Yes, this includes "golden" foods, and yes, it does mean waiting for them to finish cooking. (Ideally, Forge would be used to - optionally - auto-detect mod foods prepared on the workbench or furnace, and move their recipes to the brick oven as well. Config options might also allow certain foods to be excluded, if they normally wouldn't need cooking.)
The Smelter: Made from Stone Bricks, this one is the real deal, needed to process ores. It also only accepts charcoal (or Coal Coke, if Railcraft is installed) Lava, or Blaze Rods for fuel. Indeed, the last two can only be used in the Smelter. It also has a second fuel slot, which must be stocked with gravel.
The Furnace? Yes, the Furnace. The Vanilla furnace still exists, can still be found in villages, and can even be crafted using three smooth stone topped by five cobble. However, it can't be used to cook anything. Containing only one slot and a fuel indicator, the Furnace serves two purposes. First, to supply a Furnace to any recipe that needs one. Secondly, it can be lit if provided with fuel, to serve as a light source on par with lamps and glowstone. If you put Netherrack in it, it will not need to be refuelled.
Real tools take more than a pile of rocks! Stone tools from cobble? Not on my watch! To make stone tools, you'll first need to craft some smoothstone, so that you can carve them out of solid rock, instead of glueing a bunch of loose pebbles together.
Double Workbench! What does it mean? Certain recipes will no longer work on just the Crafting Table. Try to make them, and there'll be a big red X through the output. How do you get them? Put down two Crafting Tables, side by side, to make a true Workbench. This will have a number of additional slots on the side. These are for added ingredients, needed to make certain items, and will appear as grey "ghost" items to tell you what a recipe needs. Ingredients like what?
Iron Nuggets: Added by this and other mods, a number of these will be used in recipes that need rivets, such as most armours. Fishing rods need one for a hook. Also used as hinges on iron doors. They can also be used to craft chainmail, the only armour you can make on a single Crafting Table.
Leather Strips: All tools (save fishing rods) and weapons (including bows) will need a couple of these as bindings, as will most armour, chests (as well as some iron nugget rivets), and the various wooden gates, hatches and doors.
String: Used in recipes that need stitching together, like Leather Armour, Books, or to bind together hay bales.
Wool: Armour needs padding, and wool pads armour. It's as simple as that.
Blaze Powder and Redstone Dust: These two are used specifically in making diamond-tier items, providing the heat and magical energy needed to melt, fuse, and shape the gemstones. (Could perhaps have Forge Ore Dictionary support to require these for other gemstones as well, if another mod adds them.)
Why stop there? Doubles for all! Okay, so not everything is designed to be harder. Put two Kilns, Smelters, or Brick Ovens one on top of the other, and they'll upgrade to a double version too (two high, rather than two wide). For the first two, this means additional input and output slots. For the brick oven, it means a small internal storage it can automatically draw ingredients from once a recipe is laid out (and deposit those pesky leftover buckets to, if you want to bake a bulk batch of b...cakes).
So, there you have it. That's my list of changes to make the early game something you don't breeze right through on your way to diamonds, enchantments, and glory. For best results, mix with other mods that add a bigger challenge to the game. Maybe play it on Hardcore, to really feel the tension in those early stages of the game.
I might try to make something like this; I need something to code. I like the name actually.
Some mods very similar to the gameplay experience you're looking for already exist. I would try combining these together (most are still at 1.6.4 though):
Tinker's Construct by mDiyo
Iguana Tweaks for Tinker's Construct by iguana_man
Hunger Overhaul by iguana_man
Pam's Harvestcraft by MatrexsVigil
These mods are already in two FTB modpacks: Agrarian Skies and Magic Farm 2, both designed by JadedCat.
I might try to make something like this; I need something to code.
Some mods very similar to the gameplay experience you're looking for already exist. I would try combining these together (most are still at 1.6.4 though):
Tinker's Construct by mDiyo
Iguana Tweaks for Tinker's Construct by iguana_man
Hunger Overhaul by iguana_man
Pam's Harvestcraft by MatrexsVigil
These mods are already in two FTB modpacks: Agrarian Skies and Magic Farm 2, both designed by JadedCat.
Thanks for the interest! I actually have played with all of the above mods (and in fact, the modpacks you mention). Sadly, while they do change the experience a bit, I don't find that any of them really slows down the early game all that much (though, of course, the lack of resources in general with Agrarian Skies does do a bit). My intent here was something that would be able to slow the game down even if you load it with technical mods that would normally make the game easier, by putting off the earliest levels of progression needed to even start on most tech trees.
In order to make the kiln, it needs cobblestone. I'm assuming the knife can break smooth stone (in the world) to drop cobblestone like a wood pickaxe does in vanilla?
No, you would use the bone pick to break your first stones. 2x2 crafting with bones in top left and bottom right, stick in bottom left, and leather strip in upper right.
Edit: Also, the hatchet would be stick and leather strip on the left, and two flint on the right.
I really like a lot of what TerraFirmaCraft has done, but in some ways it almost feels like too much, and it can't be used with a lot of other mods.
The compatibility issues of TFCraft are due to the large number of changes it makes to vanilla mechanics that are used by other mods... mechanics that you are proposing to change. Your early game ideas have some chicken-and-egg flaws, however. To chop down wood, you need an axe, made of bone. So before you can build a proper shelter or go mining, you need to kill some skeletons. Since you don't have a crafting table, anything you make before chopping wood will need to be done in a 2x2 grid. Additionally, surface gravel is fairly rare, so you'll be punching those skeletons (if you can even make the flint sword in a 2x2)
The compatibility issues of TFCraft are due to the large number of changes it makes to vanilla mechanics that are used by other mods... mechanics that you are proposing to change. Your early game ideas have some chicken-and-egg flaws, however. To chop down wood, you need an axe, made of bone. So before you can build a proper shelter or go mining, you need to kill some skeletons. Since you don't have a crafting table, anything you make before chopping wood will need to be done in a 2x2 grid. Additionally, surface gravel is fairly rare, so you'll be punching those skeletons (if you can even make the flint sword in a 2x2)
Not at all, actually. I've been careful in planning this idea out to make certain that Vanilla resources are still available. The timing on getting them is just changed.
Also, the axe is made of flint, not bone, and surface gravel really isn't all that rare...it usually doesn't take long to find a shallow cave with some gravel in it, at the least. As far as bones go, though, there's still the knife for one, and sunlight for two. No one ever said you had to be the one to kill the skeleton yourself. Other than that, the change in pacing is deliberate. Under ordinary circumstances, the wood and stone tiers only exist to get you through the first few minutes of gameplay. So, yes, things here will make that stage of the game take longer. That is the point, to give the player more to do in the "basic survival" section of the game, before letting them advance to the point of having a secure shelter and being equipped to handle most threats with confidence.
I've done some research and found that making (existing) blocks unbreakable without the current tool (as in completely unbreakable, not just broken w/o drops) is currently impossible with Forge. While this was on the Forge Forums, it might not be entirely true. If anyone has a workaround idea, it would be greatly appreciated.
I've never heard of terrafirmacraft, but from what smbarbour says, there must be many changes to the basic mechanics. Are you sure that changing basic mechanics are the way to go, because doing so can cause a lot of compatibility issues.
To solve the chicken-egg issue and clear up anything confusing: You would start by looking for some gravel (in my experience gravel is not too rare on the surface and pretty easy to find at the entrance to a cave), make a flint knife, get wood and sticks from a tree, get some leather and make leather strips (I've found cows to be frustratingly rare in all my survival worlds, but none of my creative ones. The random number generator hates me.), get some bone from skeletons (quite risky considering the deadliness of skeletons since 1.5), make a bone pickaxe, and then you have stone. Anything I'm missing?
The knife I already have code to function as a weapon with the same damage as an axe maybe.
I've done some research and found that making (existing) blocks unbreakable without the current tool (as in completely unbreakable, not just broken w/o drops) is currently impossible with Forge. While this was on the Forge Forums, it might not be entirely true. If anyone has a workaround idea, it would be greatly appreciated.
I've never heard of terrafirmacraft, but from what smbarbour says, there must be many changes to the basic mechanics. Are you sure that changing basic mechanics are the way to go, because doing so can cause a lot of compatibility issues.
To solve the chicken-egg issue and clear up anything confusing: You would start by looking for some gravel (in my experience gravel is not too rare on the surface and pretty easy to find at the entrance to a cave), make a flint knife, get wood and sticks from a tree, get some leather and make leather strips (I've found cows to be frustratingly rare in all my survival worlds, but none of my creative ones. The random number generator hates me.), get some bone from skeletons (quite risky considering the deadliness of skeletons since 1.5), make a bone pickaxe, and then you have stone. Anything I'm missing?
That's about right.
I would think that there should be a way to make blocks unbreakable. Or at least come back when broken. For a start, blocks only being able to be broken with the proper tool is a part of Adventure Mode already. For another, there are a number of mods that add spawn protection, or locational protection, which prevents blocks from being broken. While I'm not a Java coder, it ought to be possible to apply the same restriction on a global scale, but override it when using the proper tool type for whatever your hitting. At least, I would think so. If not, I'm not opposed to simply making anything not meant to be dug by hand require a tool only for drops, since most people aren't likely to make that mistake more than once anyway.
Finally, on the TFC issue, it's less the mechanics that are the issue with that mod, and more the fact that no Vanilla resources spawn in the world. It replaces the dirt with its own dirt, the stone with its own stone, and the trees with its own trees. Then it disables crafting things it doesn't want you to have. So, the reason it's not compatible with anything is because you can't get the materials to make them. Believe me, it's something I took into consideration with this. I'm looking to change how you get a number of things, but as long as they can still be gotten, Minecraft doesn't care what the recipe for them was. The are only two possible issues I foresee. One is the Furnace, which shouldn't be a problem if it's either 1) the same block with the GUI overridden, or 2) somehow (I believe this is possible) uses OreDictionary to be treated as interchangeable. The other is the Workbench mechanics, which will only change recipes, not the output, whether it uses a "hard" list of recipes, or checks item types and assigns them default "unlock" conditions (All items of type X require additional material set Y)...the main difference there would be whether the makers of other mods need to provide support for the system, or it is automatically compatible (and the relative difficulty to code one or the other, of course). The only actual mechanic being changed, really, is raising the requirements to harvest certain blocks.
(I suppose the removal of wooden picks and axes might constitute a lost resource, though again I believe that OreDictionary can remedy this.)
The way you were describing the block breaking mechanics is in line with how Bukkit works. Forge works quite differently. There probably is a method somewhere in there to be overridden, it's very likely in Forge's undocumented methods with bare deobfuscated code and a method naming convention of func_######_#() or something equally cryptic. I'll look into how it works with bedrock and see if I can find something to go off of.
I like the gameplay style this mod would create. Very similar to the gameplay style of Magic Farm 2, but more oriented towards vanilla, staying away from heavy mod stuff like adding ores. It keeps vanilla Minecraft the core of the game.
EDIT: I just remembered that Twilight Forest has hedge mazes, and that they deal damage continually when broken at all, regardless of tool, encouraging you to solve the maze instead of break through it. They also have labyrinths (different structure) with "mazestone walls" that can only be broken with a mazebreaker pick, and also high-tier tech tools like the Varja from GraviSuite or the Power Fist from Modular Powersuits, but for some reason was unbreakable by vanilla tools. It must be possible, but still not sure how...
The way bedrock works is by having a hardness of -1, which applies to everything you use, no matter what tool, so dead end there. Changing the hardness of a block is impossible ingame, as changing the hardness won't affect the block in the registry (I think).
I tried overriding the BreakBlock.BreakEvent, and I could figure out whether the block was broken "incorrectly" (in which case it should not be broken at all), but the event seems to occur just before the block is broken instead of after, so world.setBlock(...) did nothing except set it to the block that was about to be broken. Is there a way to 'reset' the progress of a player breaking a block?
EDIT: Turns out the BreakEvent is cancellable, so all I had to do is cancel it!
So you really can get it to prevent "improper" breaking? That's great! I was pretty sure it could be done. Being sure that something is doable in theory and getting confirmation are two different things, though.
I've got the kiln working, now I'm trying to make the double workbench gui and recipes.
One problem with the "improper" breaking: by cancelling the break event, the block still gets broken and replaced (the very next tick), as if you tried to break a block in a Bukkit server and you didn't have the permission to do so, but this happens faster. That's going to be a flaw I can't get around unless Forge changes its code.
Currently I'm working on the double workbench and it crafts correctly (finally), but I'm not sure how to make partially transparent ghost items in the "additional materials" slots. These are not like ghost items from the AE import bus or the BC diamond pipe, these are sort of the opposite: the slot is empty, but the items are rendered there in partial transparency beneath them, like what NEI does with recipes when you click the [?] button. Like in this (from the ChickenBones topic):
"Noobcraft" is an idea to make the game a little more fleshed out, by slowing down the early tiers of the game. In other words, you'll spend a little more time as a "noob", before you get to move on to bigger and better things. Everything in this mod will be designed to make getting established take just a little bit longer. What will those things be?
The Kiln: This replaces the basic furnace in recipe and looks, but not in function. In fact, it's very limited. It can cook clay into bricks, clay blocks into hardened clay, cobblestone into stone, wood into charcoal, and sand into glass. In a pinch, it can cook meat to eliminate the penalties, but the result is a Charred meat, that offers only the lowest tier of nourishment (though with normal saturation).
Iron Nuggets: Added by this and other mods, a number of these will be used in recipes that need rivets, such as most armours. Fishing rods need one for a hook. Also used as hinges on iron doors. They can also be used to craft chainmail, the only armour you can make on a single Crafting Table.
- Leather Strips: All tools (save fishing rods) and weapons (including bows) will need a couple of these as bindings, as will most armour, chests (as well as some iron nugget rivets), and the various wooden gates, hatches and doors.
- String: Used in recipes that need stitching together, like Leather Armour, Books, or to bind together hay bales.
- Wool: Armour needs padding, and wool pads armour. It's as simple as that.
- Blaze Powder and Redstone Dust: These two are used specifically in making diamond-tier items, providing the heat and magical energy needed to melt, fuse, and shape the gemstones. (Could perhaps have Forge Ore Dictionary support to require these for other gemstones as well, if another mod adds them.)
Some mods very similar to the gameplay experience you're looking for already exist. I would try combining these together (most are still at 1.6.4 though):
Thanks for the interest! I actually have played with all of the above mods (and in fact, the modpacks you mention). Sadly, while they do change the experience a bit, I don't find that any of them really slows down the early game all that much (though, of course, the lack of resources in general with Agrarian Skies does do a bit). My intent here was something that would be able to slow the game down even if you load it with technical mods that would normally make the game easier, by putting off the earliest levels of progression needed to even start on most tech trees.
Edit: Also, the hatchet would be stick and leather strip on the left, and two flint on the right.
I really like a lot of what TerraFirmaCraft has done, but in some ways it almost feels like too much, and it can't be used with a lot of other mods.
The compatibility issues of TFCraft are due to the large number of changes it makes to vanilla mechanics that are used by other mods... mechanics that you are proposing to change. Your early game ideas have some chicken-and-egg flaws, however. To chop down wood, you need an axe, made of bone. So before you can build a proper shelter or go mining, you need to kill some skeletons. Since you don't have a crafting table, anything you make before chopping wood will need to be done in a 2x2 grid. Additionally, surface gravel is fairly rare, so you'll be punching those skeletons (if you can even make the flint sword in a 2x2)
Not at all, actually. I've been careful in planning this idea out to make certain that Vanilla resources are still available. The timing on getting them is just changed.
Also, the axe is made of flint, not bone, and surface gravel really isn't all that rare...it usually doesn't take long to find a shallow cave with some gravel in it, at the least. As far as bones go, though, there's still the knife for one, and sunlight for two. No one ever said you had to be the one to kill the skeleton yourself. Other than that, the change in pacing is deliberate. Under ordinary circumstances, the wood and stone tiers only exist to get you through the first few minutes of gameplay. So, yes, things here will make that stage of the game take longer. That is the point, to give the player more to do in the "basic survival" section of the game, before letting them advance to the point of having a secure shelter and being equipped to handle most threats with confidence.
I've never heard of terrafirmacraft, but from what smbarbour says, there must be many changes to the basic mechanics. Are you sure that changing basic mechanics are the way to go, because doing so can cause a lot of compatibility issues.
To solve the chicken-egg issue and clear up anything confusing: You would start by looking for some gravel (in my experience gravel is not too rare on the surface and pretty easy to find at the entrance to a cave), make a flint knife, get wood and sticks from a tree, get some leather and make leather strips (I've found cows to be frustratingly rare in all my survival worlds, but none of my creative ones. The random number generator hates me.), get some bone from skeletons (quite risky considering the deadliness of skeletons since 1.5), make a bone pickaxe, and then you have stone. Anything I'm missing?
The knife I already have code to function as a weapon with the same damage as an axe maybe.
That's about right.
I would think that there should be a way to make blocks unbreakable. Or at least come back when broken. For a start, blocks only being able to be broken with the proper tool is a part of Adventure Mode already. For another, there are a number of mods that add spawn protection, or locational protection, which prevents blocks from being broken. While I'm not a Java coder, it ought to be possible to apply the same restriction on a global scale, but override it when using the proper tool type for whatever your hitting. At least, I would think so. If not, I'm not opposed to simply making anything not meant to be dug by hand require a tool only for drops, since most people aren't likely to make that mistake more than once anyway.
Finally, on the TFC issue, it's less the mechanics that are the issue with that mod, and more the fact that no Vanilla resources spawn in the world. It replaces the dirt with its own dirt, the stone with its own stone, and the trees with its own trees. Then it disables crafting things it doesn't want you to have. So, the reason it's not compatible with anything is because you can't get the materials to make them. Believe me, it's something I took into consideration with this. I'm looking to change how you get a number of things, but as long as they can still be gotten, Minecraft doesn't care what the recipe for them was. The are only two possible issues I foresee. One is the Furnace, which shouldn't be a problem if it's either 1) the same block with the GUI overridden, or 2) somehow (I believe this is possible) uses OreDictionary to be treated as interchangeable. The other is the Workbench mechanics, which will only change recipes, not the output, whether it uses a "hard" list of recipes, or checks item types and assigns them default "unlock" conditions (All items of type X require additional material set Y)...the main difference there would be whether the makers of other mods need to provide support for the system, or it is automatically compatible (and the relative difficulty to code one or the other, of course). The only actual mechanic being changed, really, is raising the requirements to harvest certain blocks.
(I suppose the removal of wooden picks and axes might constitute a lost resource, though again I believe that OreDictionary can remedy this.)
I like the gameplay style this mod would create. Very similar to the gameplay style of Magic Farm 2, but more oriented towards vanilla, staying away from heavy mod stuff like adding ores. It keeps vanilla Minecraft the core of the game.
EDIT: I just remembered that Twilight Forest has hedge mazes, and that they deal damage continually when broken at all, regardless of tool, encouraging you to solve the maze instead of break through it. They also have labyrinths (different structure) with "mazestone walls" that can only be broken with a mazebreaker pick, and also high-tier tech tools like the Varja from GraviSuite or the Power Fist from Modular Powersuits, but for some reason was unbreakable by vanilla tools. It must be possible, but still not sure how...
I tried overriding the BreakBlock.BreakEvent, and I could figure out whether the block was broken "incorrectly" (in which case it should not be broken at all), but the event seems to occur just before the block is broken instead of after, so world.setBlock(...) did nothing except set it to the block that was about to be broken.
Is there a way to 'reset' the progress of a player breaking a block?EDIT: Turns out the BreakEvent is cancellable, so all I had to do is cancel it!
Turns out the BlockEvent.BreakEvent is actually cancellable. I didn't think it would be that simple.
ZallCaTor's Sprite Ordering Service. is awesome too
Is my RPG answerI guess
Did it work?
welcome to Cursebound
One problem with the "improper" breaking: by cancelling the break event, the block still gets broken and replaced (the very next tick), as if you tried to break a block in a Bukkit server and you didn't have the permission to do so, but this happens faster. That's going to be a flaw I can't get around unless Forge changes its code.
ZallCaTor's Sprite Ordering Service. is awesome too
Is my RPG answerI guess
Did it work?
welcome to Cursebound
Any ideas?