I like the idea of more things that can repair items, though I'm not sure what would be the best way to go about it. Perhaps allow a single catalyst to be crafted with two of an item for more "bonus" durability, though not used to repair items by themselves normally. However, when repairs are done at a Workbench, not only can multiple catalysts be used in the side slots, but their effect is increased, a second item is not needed if they're used, and the basic materials from the recipe (for example, a stick and a block of stone for stone tools) can be included among the catalysts for repairing. Yes, this would make the anvil less needed, but I think that making its primary function enchanting might be fine.
I was thinking about making this repair table (something like that) be its own tile entity, separate from the workbench, but with similar catalyst slots. I think that there will be a "base" catalyst(s) for which material is used on the tool, as well as additional catalysts for each type of enchantment, and of course a small XP cost, sort of like the cost for using the Twilight Forest uncrafting/recrafting/repair table.
Well, stone monster eggs have the opposite of normal stone progression, which is to say that they dig fast by hand and very slow by pickaxe. Dunno if that's some code you could make use of or not.
I'm pretty sure that monster eggs have no specific tool, thus they break the same speed by hand as by pickaxe, which is comparatively slow for a pickaxe, and comparatively fast for by hand.
Animals IRL are a wealth of supplies. If we're going for survival realism stuff, they absolutely should drop bones (well, perhaps rabbits and maybe chickens would not drop useful bones... well, I could see a chicken dropping a wishbone, which could function as a low-durability fishhook with a bit of carving), and possibly things such as fat or even viscera (though there's a limit to how much gross I'm willing to put up with for realism... I dislike mods with manure in them).
I think Rotten Flesh should not in any way be converted to food or leather. There's just something weird about either eating or wearing zombie corpse bits. However, it is the perfect bait, and I think that if you throw it into the water it should increase the speed at which fish bite for a time, and possibly also improve which fish get caught. Another possible use could be as zombie repellent... if you smell like zombies, they don't attack you, like in the Walking Dead.
I've found leather to be a feast/famine resource as well... and it doesn't help that you now need it to make books. Hoping the book recipe can be switched to just rabbit skin (four rabbit skin make a leather, right? so 1 rabbit skin could make 1 book or 1 leather could make 4 books?)... although even that is a bit irritating when I'm trying a vegan run where I avoid killing animals. Having village butchers sell leather would be a plus. I do so love the idea of making leather straps, and of being able to get a fishing pole going without having to kill spiders or locate tombs and mine shafts.
I wouldn't necessarily be thrilled with the idea of curing hides - what with leather already being an annoyance at times - but I'd wait to see how you guys implement it, if you decide to.
Saplings-to-sticks... not a progression I tend to enjoy, but at least it makes a little sense with use of a knife. (Seriously, the sapling I think of within the game does not have a usable stick hiding inside it, let alone the kind of stick you could use to make a handle for a tool. And any sapling with enough of a good stick inside would not be found growing in an existing tree.)
I think I'll leave leather a resource as is. I don't think I'll implement curing leather, that seems like too much for Minecraft. Rotten flesh should not be smeltable into leather, that's completely ridiculous, the two have nothing in common. I'm not sure about a zombie repellent, that seems kind of specific and only useful in rare situations. I think I might make most of the big animals (cows, horses, sheep, pigs) have a chance to drop one or two bones on death, and the small animals (chickens, rabbits in 1.8) drop "Bone Shards" which are already used in the bone pickaxe recipe. I might make leather strips craftable into some things like the saddle, but not a fishing rod. You need the line to be hard to see, and leather is pretty obvious, even underwater.
When it comes to trees in Minecraft, you have big wood logs, and the tiny saplings. You don't have the medium to small branches like you would need for tools. You need sticks to make the flint hatchet in the beginning, and the only source of wood at that time is saplings from leaves.
I was thinking about making this repair table (something like that) be its own tile entity, separate from the workbench, but with similar catalyst slots. I think that there will be a "base" catalyst(s) for which material is used on the tool, as well as additional catalysts for each type of enchantment, and of course a small XP cost, sort of like the cost for using the Twilight Forest uncrafting/recrafting/repair table.
Oh, I like that! I like that a lot! I do think the anvil should still be useful, though. Perhaps make it a "Smithy", that works as an upgrade from an anvil, or uses an anvil sort of like a fuel/catalyst in some way? Or needs an anvil added to it to handle more advanced repairs (like metal items). Alternatively, we could make the distinction that the anvil is for naming and adding enchantments, and the new station is for repairs. Hmm...
I think I'll leave leather a resource as is. I don't think I'll implement curing leather, that seems like too much for Minecraft. Rotten flesh should not be smeltable into leather, that's completely ridiculous, the two have nothing in common. I'm not sure about a zombie repellent, that seems kind of specific and only useful in rare situations. I think I might make most of the big animals (cows, horses, sheep, pigs) have a chance to drop one or two bones on death, and the small animals (chickens, rabbits in 1.8) drop "Bone Shards" which are already used in the bone pickaxe recipe. I might make leather strips craftable into some things like the saddle, but not a fishing rod. You need the line to be hard to see, and leather is pretty obvious, even underwater.
If there's a way to keep damage values (and enchantments, once 1.8 hits), then I think bait for fishing could be a good option for rotten flesh. That, or making a crab/fish trap, that's slower than fishing, consumes bait, but can be left alone. Another possibility is to make bonemeal no longer work as fertilizer by itself, and require it be combined with rotten flesh. As to strings and fishing line, though, I do have a thought. I would like to see vines have a small chance of being harvested by hand...or possibly with a knife, I think, and be usable either directly as an alternative to string in fishing rods specifically, or else able to be crafted in some way into string. If the latter, perhaps a 1-1 ratio using a knife, but add a new workstation the player can craft later to get better output, that also accepts a few other kinds of plant materials that can't be "spun" by hand. It could even allow wool-to-string crafting (though I might be stepping on Mine Fantasy's toes with this one). That and perhaps a 2x2 recipe using two sticks on one side, a string (or vine) in the top corner, and a bone shard in the bottom corner to produce a fishing pole that has already lost half to two-thirds its durability (to simulate poor quality) would allow players an early-game food resource.
We might also remove cooking meat in the kiln, and adopt a campfire, sort of like Kilyle's mod, for making the charred meat. First, let the knife have at least a chance of harvesting grass. One sapling on top, two sticks, and one grass will make a campfire, which takes over for the kiln as an early way to cook meat (and might be added as the centre component in the various furnace types?), but which needs not only fuel, but to be lit. It will not start cooking until a firestarter is used on it. Also, it only burns wood products. Since flint and steel is a long way off, you would use two grass and two sticks to make a Fire Bow. Unlike the Flint and Steel, it only has one use, and has to be held down, like drawing a bow, to work. Also, it shouldn't stack (the idea is to make it cheap, but impractical for "everyday" use).
On a side note, we should probably change it so that mobs that die from fire drop charred meat instead of cooked meat, so that doesn't end up an exploit to get around making an oven.
Sorry about that. I've got the semi-transparent items working (finally). I had to make a custom item renderer, so that was pretty tricky. I've added the bone drops and made flaming mobs drop charred meat. Bones only drop from non-skeleton mobs if you killed them yourself, so that you don't have an insane amount of bonemeal, which still is difficult to avoid with this added. I've also added the fact that knives can sometimes silktouch grass and vines (I think 1 in 8). I still have yet to let vines turn into string. I definitely want to add a wool->string recipe, though not sure if we should add a loom tile entity just for making string. That seems a bit too...Terraria. We might be able to go the RedPower/ProjectRed route and have some sort of separating tool with durability instead. I'm not sure if we need to add a campfire, since it wouldn't be too much of a use to players, even at that early of a stage. Many of the features to this mod are now configurable through a config file, which uses the new in-game config feature (Forge for 1.7.2 allows modders to make it so their config can be changed ingame, instead of requiring a game restart). Lastly, I've added in most of the repair table, just need to get it to actually repair the item.
If excessive bonemeal is a concern, then I definitely think we should make it unable to act as fertilizer on its own, and use it as an ingredient for making fertilizer instead. Make it so it has to be mixed with rotten flesh or fish, one of each to make one fertilizer. That way, you have to do a bit more for your fast crop growing, which should make up for one of the ingredients becoming more common, but it's still available...and as an added bonus, the fish option plus bones from passives, will allow players to get a way to grow grass and flowers on Peaceful, which can be great for dressing up a build.
The idea with the loom was if we had more than just vines to use. If we only use vines, then just working them with a knife is fine. On the other hand, are there any other options we could add with a spinning wheel? Turning wheat, wool, and vines into string is one thing. I'm tempted to suggest turning gold into wires that can replace redstone in machines, but not be placed in the world or used to make redstone torches, but that might be adding a bit of feature creep. Another possible option, make it so that webs and spiders no longer give string, but silk. Silk must be spun into Thread, which can be used interchangeably with String, but makes Cloth rather than Wool. Lastly, add in a Cloth Armour, that is mostly the same as leather, but with greater enchantability. Then fighting spiders and braving abandoned mines will be a little more rewarding than just running a farm, and there will be more reason to use early-game substitutes for string.
Similarly, I like the campfire in concept, so before abandoning the idea completely, I'd like to see if there's any way we can make it more useful without being overpowered first. I mentioned previously needing to use one to make the three/four furnace types, rather than giving them an open centre, as an option. Another possibility is to let it make charcoal before you get the kiln, possibly even as a passive by-product...or go the TerraFirmaCraft route and use it to turn sticks directly into torches, so there's a way to get lighting early. Or, what about a limited spawn prevention radius, beyond what just light or player presence would normally give? If not outright preventing spawning, at least lowering rates in its vicinity. Or give the campfire a 2x2 grid, and allow some of the less demanding recipes, like mushroom stew, to be made on it...remember that, if we also take cooking meat away from the Kiln, the campfire would be the primary cooking station until the player finds enough clay to make a Brick Oven. Anyway, just throwing some ideas at the wall to see if any of them stick. I agree with not keeping anything essentially useless, but I also don't want to make things too useful just to justify adding them.
One thing about this mod I want is to make most vanilla machines and devices (for example, the ) still valid, just a bit more difficult to obtain. If we disable bonemeal's vanilla effect (which will be difficult in itself, if at all possible), how do we make sure it doesn't work in the dispenser either, and make our fertilizer product so it does work in the dispenser?
Another concern I have is modeling. I am an awful modeler. While I know how to use Blender, I'm only good at setting materials and post-processing for it. I'm not even sure if you can use a model generated by Blender or if you need another, more expensive program I don't have. The loom and campfire will definitely require their own custom models. While I like the string-thread-cloth idea, (I suggest we make string only obtainable from wool, and make twine from vines, and thread from spider silk, all of which act the same in crafting recipes.) I know that implementing it will be a big task.
A while ago I had some serious issues with implementing the double kiln/oven/smelter, and that's been bugging me since I really like the idea. I suggest we instead go the route of an "advanced" form of these furnaces. The "advanced" kiln ("fired kiln"?) would be made of hardened clay perhaps, the brick oven ("nether brick oven"?) from nether brick, and the smelter ("seared smelter"?) from obsidian and blaze rods. All of these would require the previous stage in the recipe, and all implement the features we decided on earlier.
I've read through about the first page and his seems like an amazing idea, if nobody else is already picking it up, I will, because it sounds amazing. If someone is currently working on it, and would like someone to help them with it, message me your skype name, and we will work something out.
I've read through about the first page and his seems like an amazing idea, if nobody else is already picking it up, I will, because it sounds amazing.
I'm working on it. I have a GitHub if you want to fork and make a pull request. Help would be greatly appreciated. I don't have any builds yet, so you're going to need to compile it yourself.
The technical answer to the bonemeal question, at least in part, is dummy items, changed recipes, and ore dictionary. Or, a new machine (though that might be a cop-out answer) and/or changing the way that bones are processed so you never get bonemeal at all - which is not ideal, I admit, as bonemeal is still a dye. Though I do agree, you raise some good points. I'm not entirely sure what the answers are. For the modelling, I'd offer to do it myself, but I'm about as confident as you. While I used to be able to get some good results, it's been years since I did it, and the last time was with Pixels 3D on a Mac (I'm pretty sure it can be done in Blender, though). My hope is that a good enough base concept can gain interest enough to attract someone that is confident in their modelling ability.
...speaking of which, since this is now actively being developed, should we have the topic moved to the WIP section and edit the OP and title accordingly?
As to making the work stations have upgraded forms, that actually addresses a concern I'd had well. Particularly with the Smelter, I have been thinking that while the upgraded function is nice, it might actually be too nice for the cost of just making two of them, and people wouldn't ever use the single versions. Making the improved versions upgrades, requiring additional materials that can't be obtained right away, actually addresses that quite nicely.
For the strings, I want to see if I understand right. All will work as string in oredict recipes, however, they would have the following differences, correct?
Normal string comes from Wool, and can be made back into it.
Twine comes from plant matter (vines and maybe wheat), and doesn't have a block form.
Thread is made from Silk, which spiders and webs give, and makes Cloth, which is used as discussed.
Finally, to iLiminate, if you want to help out, then you're welcome in my book. Let's make this the best mod it can be!
With bonemeal I don't think I understand what you mean by dummy items. I want to make sure that players can eventually (a long way after the noob era) create advanced automated farms with just vanilla mechanics and our fertilizer. I don't want anything in the mod to be grindy, which is one of the reasons why I added the repair table. I'll look into how bonemeal fertilizes and see if it's all done from the bonemeal code or if it's done from the dispenser code when using dispensers.
I think we should, but I don't have any releases yet (actually don't even know how to compile it into a JAR, never actually made a mod that went anywhere.) Googling...
Glad you like the upgraded furnaces, I was worried they'd turn into one of those bland "craft your furnace with iron ingots to make it better, and then gold, and then diamonds!" mods that encourage grindy gameplay.
I honestly have no idea how to make oredictionary recipes in Forge 1.7. I can register things in the ore dictionary, but I couldn't find any tutorials on how to make recipes with them.
By a "dummy item", I meant replacing the output of recipes that make bonemeal with an identical item that simply lacks the code to work as fertilizer. I realize, though, that if we want to have compatibility with other mods, that approach isn't truly feasible. However, while I think that there are other mods that have denied bonemeal the ability to work as fertilizer, just as there are several that add their own fertilizers to the game, I'm not sure how they make it work.
By a "dummy item", I meant replacing the output of recipes that make bonemeal with an identical item that simply lacks the code to work as fertilizer. I realize, though, that if we want to have compatibility with other mods, that approach isn't truly feasible. However, while I think that there are other mods that have denied bonemeal the ability to work as fertilizer, just as there are several that add their own fertilizers to the game, I'm not sure how they make it work.
I think that any mods that disable bonemeal's use were in 1.6, and they simply set their item id to be the same as vanilla bonemeal. This is no longer possible in 1.7. What I could do is set up an event that uses BonemealEvent (yep, that's actually real), and cancel it if it's bonemeal and not fertilizer. This might be how vanilla bonemeals with the dispensers, or at least how forge does.
Right now I'm still trying to get the repair table to repair. It requires me to delve into packets.
I've got the campfire modeled, and am currently working on the interface. The fire bow now changes the block so that it is a lit campfire so that it can burn items. Adding in the NBT Tag so that it will stay "burning" for 20 seconds after the fuel runs out. P.S. This thread needs to be closed, and a new one opened explaining the mod somewhat.
I was thinking about making this repair table (something like that) be its own tile entity, separate from the workbench, but with similar catalyst slots. I think that there will be a "base" catalyst(s) for which material is used on the tool, as well as additional catalysts for each type of enchantment, and of course a small XP cost, sort of like the cost for using the Twilight Forest uncrafting/recrafting/repair table.
I'm pretty sure that monster eggs have no specific tool, thus they break the same speed by hand as by pickaxe, which is comparatively slow for a pickaxe, and comparatively fast for by hand.
I think I'll leave leather a resource as is. I don't think I'll implement curing leather, that seems like too much for Minecraft. Rotten flesh should not be smeltable into leather, that's completely ridiculous, the two have nothing in common. I'm not sure about a zombie repellent, that seems kind of specific and only useful in rare situations. I think I might make most of the big animals (cows, horses, sheep, pigs) have a chance to drop one or two bones on death, and the small animals (chickens, rabbits in 1.8) drop "Bone Shards" which are already used in the bone pickaxe recipe. I might make leather strips craftable into some things like the saddle, but not a fishing rod. You need the line to be hard to see, and leather is pretty obvious, even underwater.
When it comes to trees in Minecraft, you have big wood logs, and the tiny saplings. You don't have the medium to small branches like you would need for tools. You need sticks to make the flint hatchet in the beginning, and the only source of wood at that time is saplings from leaves.
Oh, I like that! I like that a lot! I do think the anvil should still be useful, though. Perhaps make it a "Smithy", that works as an upgrade from an anvil, or uses an anvil sort of like a fuel/catalyst in some way? Or needs an anvil added to it to handle more advanced repairs (like metal items). Alternatively, we could make the distinction that the anvil is for naming and adding enchantments, and the new station is for repairs. Hmm...
If there's a way to keep damage values (and enchantments, once 1.8 hits), then I think bait for fishing could be a good option for rotten flesh. That, or making a crab/fish trap, that's slower than fishing, consumes bait, but can be left alone. Another possibility is to make bonemeal no longer work as fertilizer by itself, and require it be combined with rotten flesh. As to strings and fishing line, though, I do have a thought. I would like to see vines have a small chance of being harvested by hand...or possibly with a knife, I think, and be usable either directly as an alternative to string in fishing rods specifically, or else able to be crafted in some way into string. If the latter, perhaps a 1-1 ratio using a knife, but add a new workstation the player can craft later to get better output, that also accepts a few other kinds of plant materials that can't be "spun" by hand. It could even allow wool-to-string crafting (though I might be stepping on Mine Fantasy's toes with this one). That and perhaps a 2x2 recipe using two sticks on one side, a string (or vine) in the top corner, and a bone shard in the bottom corner to produce a fishing pole that has already lost half to two-thirds its durability (to simulate poor quality) would allow players an early-game food resource.
We might also remove cooking meat in the kiln, and adopt a campfire, sort of like Kilyle's mod, for making the charred meat. First, let the knife have at least a chance of harvesting grass. One sapling on top, two sticks, and one grass will make a campfire, which takes over for the kiln as an early way to cook meat (and might be added as the centre component in the various furnace types?), but which needs not only fuel, but to be lit. It will not start cooking until a firestarter is used on it. Also, it only burns wood products. Since flint and steel is a long way off, you would use two grass and two sticks to make a Fire Bow. Unlike the Flint and Steel, it only has one use, and has to be held down, like drawing a bow, to work. Also, it shouldn't stack (the idea is to make it cheap, but impractical for "everyday" use).
On a side note, we should probably change it so that mobs that die from fire drop charred meat instead of cooked meat, so that doesn't end up an exploit to get around making an oven.
Thought on bone drop rates;
Sorry about that. I've got the semi-transparent items working (finally). I had to make a custom item renderer, so that was pretty tricky. I've added the bone drops and made flaming mobs drop charred meat. Bones only drop from non-skeleton mobs if you killed them yourself, so that you don't have an insane amount of bonemeal, which still is difficult to avoid with this added. I've also added the fact that knives can sometimes silktouch grass and vines (I think 1 in 8). I still have yet to let vines turn into string. I definitely want to add a wool->string recipe, though not sure if we should add a loom tile entity just for making string. That seems a bit too...Terraria. We might be able to go the RedPower/ProjectRed route and have some sort of separating tool with durability instead. I'm not sure if we need to add a campfire, since it wouldn't be too much of a use to players, even at that early of a stage. Many of the features to this mod are now configurable through a config file, which uses the new in-game config feature (Forge for 1.7.2 allows modders to make it so their config can be changed ingame, instead of requiring a game restart). Lastly, I've added in most of the repair table, just need to get it to actually repair the item.
The idea with the loom was if we had more than just vines to use. If we only use vines, then just working them with a knife is fine. On the other hand, are there any other options we could add with a spinning wheel? Turning wheat, wool, and vines into string is one thing. I'm tempted to suggest turning gold into wires that can replace redstone in machines, but not be placed in the world or used to make redstone torches, but that might be adding a bit of feature creep. Another possible option, make it so that webs and spiders no longer give string, but silk. Silk must be spun into Thread, which can be used interchangeably with String, but makes Cloth rather than Wool. Lastly, add in a Cloth Armour, that is mostly the same as leather, but with greater enchantability. Then fighting spiders and braving abandoned mines will be a little more rewarding than just running a farm, and there will be more reason to use early-game substitutes for string.
Similarly, I like the campfire in concept, so before abandoning the idea completely, I'd like to see if there's any way we can make it more useful without being overpowered first. I mentioned previously needing to use one to make the three/four furnace types, rather than giving them an open centre, as an option. Another possibility is to let it make charcoal before you get the kiln, possibly even as a passive by-product...or go the TerraFirmaCraft route and use it to turn sticks directly into torches, so there's a way to get lighting early. Or, what about a limited spawn prevention radius, beyond what just light or player presence would normally give? If not outright preventing spawning, at least lowering rates in its vicinity. Or give the campfire a 2x2 grid, and allow some of the less demanding recipes, like mushroom stew, to be made on it...remember that, if we also take cooking meat away from the Kiln, the campfire would be the primary cooking station until the player finds enough clay to make a Brick Oven. Anyway, just throwing some ideas at the wall to see if any of them stick. I agree with not keeping anything essentially useless, but I also don't want to make things too useful just to justify adding them.
Another concern I have is modeling. I am an awful modeler. While I know how to use Blender, I'm only good at setting materials and post-processing for it. I'm not even sure if you can use a model generated by Blender or if you need another, more expensive program I don't have. The loom and campfire will definitely require their own custom models. While I like the string-thread-cloth idea, (I suggest we make string only obtainable from wool, and make twine from vines, and thread from spider silk, all of which act the same in crafting recipes.) I know that implementing it will be a big task.
A while ago I had some serious issues with implementing the double kiln/oven/smelter, and that's been bugging me since I really like the idea. I suggest we instead go the route of an "advanced" form of these furnaces. The "advanced" kiln ("fired kiln"?) would be made of hardened clay perhaps, the brick oven ("nether brick oven"?) from nether brick, and the smelter ("seared smelter"?) from obsidian and blaze rods. All of these would require the previous stage in the recipe, and all implement the features we decided on earlier.
I'm working on it. I have a GitHub if you want to fork and make a pull request. Help would be greatly appreciated. I don't have any builds yet, so you're going to need to compile it yourself.
...speaking of which, since this is now actively being developed, should we have the topic moved to the WIP section and edit the OP and title accordingly?
As to making the work stations have upgraded forms, that actually addresses a concern I'd had well. Particularly with the Smelter, I have been thinking that while the upgraded function is nice, it might actually be too nice for the cost of just making two of them, and people wouldn't ever use the single versions. Making the improved versions upgrades, requiring additional materials that can't be obtained right away, actually addresses that quite nicely.
For the strings, I want to see if I understand right. All will work as string in oredict recipes, however, they would have the following differences, correct?
Finally, to iLiminate, if you want to help out, then you're welcome in my book. Let's make this the best mod it can be!
I think we should, but I don't have any releases yet (actually don't even know how to compile it into a JAR, never actually made a mod that went anywhere.) Googling...
Glad you like the upgraded furnaces, I was worried they'd turn into one of those bland "craft your furnace with iron ingots to make it better, and then gold, and then diamonds!" mods that encourage grindy gameplay.
I honestly have no idea how to make oredictionary recipes in Forge 1.7. I can register things in the ore dictionary, but I couldn't find any tutorials on how to make recipes with them.
I think that any mods that disable bonemeal's use were in 1.6, and they simply set their item id to be the same as vanilla bonemeal. This is no longer possible in 1.7. What I could do is set up an event that uses BonemealEvent (yep, that's actually real), and cancel it if it's bonemeal and not fertilizer. This might be how vanilla bonemeals with the dispensers, or at least how forge does.
Right now I'm still trying to get the repair table to repair. It requires me to delve into packets.