Guys. Come one. Does it even matter? At all? If people want to use Forge they will use forge. If they want to use Modloader they will use Modloader. It's not a big deal.
Guys. Come one. Does it even matter? At all? If people want to use Forge they will use forge. If they want to use Modloader they will use Modloader. It's not a big deal.
That's not what the topic is about, or you would be right - it's about the OP claiming that Forge is destructive to the MC mod scene.
I can`t even get one mod onto my computer thanks to forge. I 100% agree with you!
Then you are doing something wrong.
I always find it funny how someone will claim Forge "doesn't work" and that they "need to fix it" and yet it works just fine for what? Tens of thousands of people?
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. When I first started playing around with Minecraft modding Forge didn't exist and Modloader was fairly new and developing. I worked on the base classes knowing that I would have to do it all over again when Minecraft updated if I wanted the new features. I did some test cases and realized at the time that I didn't have the time and the like and that the tools at the time were still to young to make it possible for me to do what I wanted to do... without hacking most of Minecraft. I'm a creative type. Due to constraints in general I put it on the side and returned recently.
I've worked with Forge for about a week or so. It is fairly slick and makes it possible that I can reuse my code after each refresh of the Minecraft code base I may be required to do. I am making my own mods and I found it's interfaces to be clean, useful, and frankly a lot better to deal with. I have coded in a variety of languages and played with a variety of programs and genres... I'm getting back up to speed on Java... the one thing I've learned with working in software in general... is that changing core base files of a program can be problematic when you are not on the development team of said product. When your modding you are at the whims of htese updates... and frankly Forge makes that a lot easier.
That all being said and done. You really don't need to use Forge if you don't want to. Actually if you still want to use Mods that use Forge to work with your own mod... you could always install Forge. Install the mods you want... then make the base file updates you want to do.
Really the great thing about modding is you can do whatever you want for your own personal needs. You may sacrifice some things like compatability but that is your option. I don't think claiming that Forge is bloat is really fair as I saw a lot of mods (and some that still do) that alter hte base clases files just as much or more... Forge is not perfect. I still like Modloader as well as they both make things easier in general for a modder.
In the end, do what you want to do. It really isn't Forges fault it became popular or is used by a lot of folks. Give it a year and you may find something else takes it place or not... Software is very fluid and that is one thing that makes it exciting. Good luck in either case.
--snip--
the one thing I've learned with working in software in general... is that changing core base files of a program can be problematic when you are not on the development team of said product
--snip--
That all being said and done. You really don't need to use Forge if you don't want to. Actually if you still want to use Mods that use Forge to work with your own mod... you could always install Forge. Install the mods you want... then make the base file updates you want to do.
Isn't that a contradiction there? You say in one instance that editing core files from a program can be very problematic then go on to recommend people edit forge mods to remove the dependency on forge. I cannot stress how much of a bad idea this is. Forge provides a lot more than just mod loading and infinite spite indexes, for example the upcoming re-write of my shield mod depends on a certain hook provided by forge that allows me to mitigate player damage, and a few more that allow me to render the shield correctly in both 1st and 3rd person view. Furthermore there are a few hooks that allow me to create a weapon that pierces through armour more readily. Both of these would not be possible without forge and re-writing the hooks to base minecraft would be extremely difficult for anyone who did not write the mod, especially for those who lack any programing experience (which is most of those on the forum). Even if this was all done successfully, there is no guarantee there wouldn't be massive bugs associated with it.
P.s. sorry if I did misunderstand what you said, if I did in fact misunderstand you ignore my comment.
I see that mod users with a vendetta against Forge fall into 2 main categories
Those who say that it crashes their game: These people don't follow Forge's installation instructions and therefore stuff up their minecraft jar. Because it is much easier to blame Forge for their issue rather than admitting (or realising) that it was due to their own fault, they will start spreading false "Forge crashes minecraft" posts.
Those who want to use an incompatible mod: I see these people have a legitimate concern, although their vendetta is against the wrong party. Their blame really should be directed against those modders who are lazy enough to edit base classes. There is few cases that require a base class edit, even if there is no way around it these people are still free to make a pull request of forge. Again laziness overrides all and we come to the issue we have now.
It's not Forges fault you can't follow (the very basic) installation instructions.
and
Isn't that a contradiction there? You say in one instance that editing core files from a program can be very problematic then go on to recommend people edit forge mods to remove the dependency on forge. I cannot stress how much of a bad idea this is. Forge provides a lot more than just mod loading and infinite spite indexes, for example the upcoming re-write of my shield mod depends on a certain hook provided by forge that allows me to mitigate player damage, and a few more that allow me to render the shield correctly in both 1st and 3rd person view. Furthermore there are a few hooks that allow me to create a weapon that pierces through armour more readily. Both of these would not be possible without forge and re-writing the hooks to base minecraft would be extremely difficult for anyone who did not write the mod, especially for those who lack any programing experience (which is most of those on the forum). Even if this was all done successfully, there is no guarantee there wouldn't be massive bugs associated with it.
P.s. sorry if I did misunderstand what you said, if I did in fact misunderstand you ignore my comment.
I see that mod users with a vendetta against Forge fall into 2 main categories
Those who say that it crashes their game: These people don't follow Forge's installation instructions and therefore stuff up their minecraft jar. Because it is much easier to blame Forge for their issue rather than admitting (or realising) that it was due to their own fault, they will start spreading false "Forge crashes minecraft" posts.
Those who want to use an incompatible mod: I see these people have a legitimate concern, although their vendetta is against the wrong party. Their blame really should be directed against those modders who are lazy enough to edit base classes. There is few cases that require a base class edit, even if there is no way around it these people are still free to make a pull request of forge. Again laziness overrides all and we come to the issue we have now.
I didn't say it was a good idea I wouldn't do it myself either. However it is always a possiblity. The fun thing I've learned testing software for 12+ years ... is that despite best practices that many developers will ignore it if they see fit. There are a thousand different ways or more you can code something... doesn't always mean it is a good way to do it. You still can do it of course, thus it is still an option, I should have been clearer though I like clean code documented code... and I like not mucking with base files .... thus I will use Forge as I like how it does that.... but no matter what I say... folks will go thier own way...
No... CPW made FML. Risugami still maintains ModLoader.
i understand but in these files it shows other people helping with the project and if you also watch direwolf20's serverplay they all talk about forge in random videos and it was stated in one of his videos that eloraam and risugami both did codeing on forge so i looked for the names in the credits and i found these three files. i have a reading comprehension disability but i believe these show their involvement in forge. please take a look at them.
README-fml.txt
MinecraftForge-Credits.txt
CREDITS-fml.txt
and i know risugami still maintains forge as well.
It is a clean reimplementation of a mod loading system for client, server and
bukkit use, incorporating API implementations of client side ModLoader by
Risugami.
It can be installed on its own, or as part of Minecraft Forge.
Here is the entire MinecraftForge-Credits.txt
Quote from MinecraftForge-Credits »
* Eloraam *
* FlowerChild *
* Hawkye *
* MALfunction84 *
Submitted the sleep handler code for his mod (Somnia) and others to use.
* Scokeev9 *
Gave permission for ScotTools API to be integrated into MCF, and also supported the Forge by converting his mods to use it.
ScotTools Background: ScotTools was an API that enabled modders to add blocks to harvesting levels (and many other ease-of-use features to create new tools), and the first tool API that used block material for block breaking efficiency which allowed blocks from mods that didn't use ScotTools API to break with the correct speed.
I didn't say it was a good idea I wouldn't do it myself either. However it is always a possiblity. The fun thing I've learned testing software for 12+ years ... is that despite best practices that many developers will ignore it if they see fit. There are a thousand different ways or more you can code something... doesn't always mean it is a good way to do it. You still can do it of course, thus it is still an option, I should have been clearer though I like clean code documented code... and I like not mucking with base files .... thus I will use Forge as I like how it does that.... but no matter what I say... folks will go thier own way...
Ohh thats fine, the thing is I only see this an option to an extreamly small minority of users. You would have to be quite a competent programmer to pull this off. These people are those who would be more likely to be on the "Go Forge!" team as they know the benefits of using an API like Forge.
I won't deny it, I have decompiled my fair share of mods to see how they do things, to see if I can adapt them to my own work (Personally I think more should be opensource but that's another issue). But I don't think I would every try and remove API dependencies as it just seems like a waste of time to me. That's just my 2c
I just wanted to rant about forge for a minute and see how many of you out there agree. Forge has basically stolen Modloader's market and they are removing jar mods, I think they have gone to far! Basically they are saying if you don't use forge you can not mod Minecraft. I just hope that Mojang stamps out forge with the 1.4 update although I get the feeling that 1.4 is going to be like forge and remove base class mods also. But at least with Mojang it is there game, with forge they have no right to deny me the ability to mod Minecraft.
And for those that say well don't use forge then, I say they have put themselves in place with the best mods so what choice do I have.
Your choice is to like, not use mods... Forge isnt 'basically saying' anything, its just a tool that enables mods to do things otherwise not possible with modloader. I mean what really is the point of this thread other than to express some kind of misguided loyalty to freakin' modloader of all things. Now if I decided to be as silly as you I shall proclaim myself a member of the forge army. One thing this forge loyalist has noticed is a vast gulf in quality and originality between the two camps. Poorly designed, deriviative and cheaty mods are a dime a dozen over in modloader town. Mods made by and for people with low intelligence. Not to say modloader doesnt have any decent mods, but none so good as to make me switch. Only Better than Wolves, and that mod is "incompatible with everything".
Personally I have actually found Forge more difficult to work with and editing the jar. That said Forge does add features that MC should support natively and some helper functions that are good for modding. I don't think editing a Jar or using Modloader or Forge are necessarily better than the other. However, when a native api is released that should be the best of both worlds as there should be less obfuscation between the code you want to use by use of helper code. As well as features that desperately need to be added will likely be added that make things less of a pain should also come down the pipe. ( native 3D file format, HD texture support, maybe some handier GUI code etc.)
That said Forge isn't stopping anything other than a division in modding standards.
Personally I have actually found Forge more difficult to work with and editing the jar. That said Forge does add features that MC should support natively and some helper functions that are good for modding. I don't think editing a Jar or using Modloader or Forge are necessarily better than the other. However, when a native api is released that should be the best of both worlds as there should be less obfuscation between the code you want to use by use of helper code. As well as features that desperately need to be added will likely be added that make things less of a pain should also come down the pipe. ( native 3D file format, HD texture support, maybe some handier GUI code etc.)
That said Forge isn't stopping anything other than a division in modding standards.
You obviously have much greater hopes/expectations of the modding API then I do.
I hate to break it to you but the problem exists with you. It's pretty clearly written in how to install forge. There's also a ton of youtube videos out there on how to do it. If you're too lazy to look for them that's your own problem. Also I see no cursing in that thread.
You were given a warning by an admin that's not a threat.
You were given a warning by an admin that's not a threat.
"One more post with failure to provide logs is a ban."
That is a threat, most especially considering no one in the entire thread said where to locate said log. Simply judging by the user name of the person posting, I would assume they're not all that technical. I think that thread speaks big words for the general community in that forum and their attitudes toward the less technically minded. If they were trying to be succint they should have just said "look if you don't know what you're doing, you can't use our mod." and ended the thread right there. She even states in the opening post she's not tech savy, and they still berated her, noses pointed highly to the heavens.
From the thread you posted:
"Put [profanity="[profanity="shit"]"] from forge.zip into minecraft.jar"
In the first post from LexManos
"One more post with failure to provide logs is a ban."
That is a threat, most especially considering no one in the entire thread said where to locate said log. Simply judging by the user name of the person posting, I would assume they're not all that technical. I think that thread speaks big words for the general community in that forum and their attitudes toward the less technically minded. If they were trying to be succint they should have just said "look if you don't know what you're doing, you can't use our mod." and ended the thread right there. She even states in the opening post she's not tech savy, and they still berated her, noses pointed highly to the heavens.
It takes five seconds to type in google.
How to get minecraft crash report.
And yes that is a warning, Lex is an admin on forge forums that's what we call a warning.
It takes five seconds to type in google.
How to get minecraft crash report.
And yes that is a warning, Lex is an admin on forge forums that's what we call a warning.
Assuming one has enough google fu to discern the results given. Which judging by their inquiries they don't. Following your advice I did a quick google "minecraft crash log file" first site, was the wiki. There in is listed no solid location for the file, and a liteny of CMD based java commands to force a log file, something I would not expect someone who self professed to be "those that are not file savvy?" to be able to understand let alone follow. Then there's the whole issue of opperant OS the poster was using, and their ability to determine the difference in locations of their minecraft folder (XP / 7) if they can even find it in the first place (it is in a directory that is by default hidden).
I would consider it a warning if they'd provided a path location for the log they were demanding, but considering the cussing and general attitude displayed in his first post. Read it how you wish, I would have taken it as a threat too. All in all, far to many assumptions being taken for the distasteful responses given to a simple question, where the first response from the author was a demeaning "How exactly is that complicated?"
I just wanted to rant about forge for a minute and see how many of you out there agree. Forge has basically stolen Modloader's market and they are removing jar mods, I think they have gone to far! Basically they are saying if you don't use forge you can not mod Minecraft. I just hope that Mojang stamps out forge with the 1.4 update although I get the feeling that 1.4 is going to be like forge and remove base class mods also. But at least with Mojang it is there game, with forge they have no right to deny me the ability to mod Minecraft.
And for those that say well don't use forge then, I say they have put themselves in place with the best mods so what choice do I have.
I know where you are coming from but Forge isn't all about that. Forge adds ways to basically edit the core code of the game without making base edits. ModLoader didn't and doesn't do that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
That's not what the topic is about, or you would be right - it's about the OP claiming that Forge is destructive to the MC mod scene.
I always find it funny how someone will claim Forge "doesn't work" and that they "need to fix it" and yet it works just fine for what? Tens of thousands of people?
I've worked with Forge for about a week or so. It is fairly slick and makes it possible that I can reuse my code after each refresh of the Minecraft code base I may be required to do. I am making my own mods and I found it's interfaces to be clean, useful, and frankly a lot better to deal with. I have coded in a variety of languages and played with a variety of programs and genres... I'm getting back up to speed on Java... the one thing I've learned with working in software in general... is that changing core base files of a program can be problematic when you are not on the development team of said product. When your modding you are at the whims of htese updates... and frankly Forge makes that a lot easier.
That all being said and done. You really don't need to use Forge if you don't want to. Actually if you still want to use Mods that use Forge to work with your own mod... you could always install Forge. Install the mods you want... then make the base file updates you want to do.
Really the great thing about modding is you can do whatever you want for your own personal needs. You may sacrifice some things like compatability but that is your option. I don't think claiming that Forge is bloat is really fair as I saw a lot of mods (and some that still do) that alter hte base clases files just as much or more... Forge is not perfect. I still like Modloader as well as they both make things easier in general for a modder.
In the end, do what you want to do. It really isn't Forges fault it became popular or is used by a lot of folks. Give it a year and you may find something else takes it place or not... Software is very fluid and that is one thing that makes it exciting. Good luck in either case.
It's not Forges fault you can't follow (the very basic) installation instructions.
and
Isn't that a contradiction there? You say in one instance that editing core files from a program can be very problematic then go on to recommend people edit forge mods to remove the dependency on forge. I cannot stress how much of a bad idea this is. Forge provides a lot more than just mod loading and infinite spite indexes, for example the upcoming re-write of my shield mod depends on a certain hook provided by forge that allows me to mitigate player damage, and a few more that allow me to render the shield correctly in both 1st and 3rd person view. Furthermore there are a few hooks that allow me to create a weapon that pierces through armour more readily. Both of these would not be possible without forge and re-writing the hooks to base minecraft would be extremely difficult for anyone who did not write the mod, especially for those who lack any programing experience (which is most of those on the forum). Even if this was all done successfully, there is no guarantee there wouldn't be massive bugs associated with it.
P.s. sorry if I did misunderstand what you said, if I did in fact misunderstand you ignore my comment.
I see that mod users with a vendetta against Forge fall into 2 main categories
I didn't say it was a good idea I wouldn't do it myself either. However it is always a possiblity. The fun thing I've learned testing software for 12+ years ... is that despite best practices that many developers will ignore it if they see fit. There are a thousand different ways or more you can code something... doesn't always mean it is a good way to do it. You still can do it of course, thus it is still an option, I should have been clearer though I like clean code documented code... and I like not mucking with base files .... thus I will use Forge as I like how it does that.... but no matter what I say... folks will go thier own way...
i understand but in these files it shows other people helping with the project and if you also watch direwolf20's serverplay they all talk about forge in random videos and it was stated in one of his videos that eloraam and risugami both did codeing on forge so i looked for the names in the credits and i found these three files. i have a reading comprehension disability but i believe these show their involvement in forge. please take a look at them.
README-fml.txt
MinecraftForge-Credits.txt
CREDITS-fml.txt
and i know risugami still maintains forge as well.
Here is the entire MinecraftForge-Credits.txt
and finally, CREDITS-fml.txt
You are wrong, reapersremorse, risugami does not work on Forge or FML, and never has.
Ohh thats fine, the thing is I only see this an option to an extreamly small minority of users. You would have to be quite a competent programmer to pull this off. These people are those who would be more likely to be on the "Go Forge!" team as they know the benefits of using an API like Forge.
I won't deny it, I have decompiled my fair share of mods to see how they do things, to see if I can adapt them to my own work (Personally I think more should be opensource but that's another issue). But I don't think I would every try and remove API dependencies as it just seems like a waste of time to me. That's just my 2c
Your choice is to like, not use mods... Forge isnt 'basically saying' anything, its just a tool that enables mods to do things otherwise not possible with modloader. I mean what really is the point of this thread other than to express some kind of misguided loyalty to freakin' modloader of all things. Now if I decided to be as silly as you I shall proclaim myself a member of the forge army. One thing this forge loyalist has noticed is a vast gulf in quality and originality between the two camps. Poorly designed, deriviative and cheaty mods are a dime a dozen over in modloader town. Mods made by and for people with low intelligence. Not to say modloader doesnt have any decent mods, but none so good as to make me switch. Only Better than Wolves, and that mod is "incompatible with everything".
That said Forge isn't stopping anything other than a division in modding standards.
You obviously have much greater hopes/expectations of the modding API then I do.
I hate to break it to you but the problem exists with you. It's pretty clearly written in how to install forge. There's also a ton of youtube videos out there on how to do it. If you're too lazy to look for them that's your own problem. Also I see no cursing in that thread.
You were given a warning by an admin that's not a threat.
From the thread you posted:
"Put [profanity="shit"] from forge.zip into minecraft.jar"
In the first post from LexManos
"One more post with failure to provide logs is a ban."
That is a threat, most especially considering no one in the entire thread said where to locate said log. Simply judging by the user name of the person posting, I would assume they're not all that technical. I think that thread speaks big words for the general community in that forum and their attitudes toward the less technically minded. If they were trying to be succint they should have just said "look if you don't know what you're doing, you can't use our mod." and ended the thread right there. She even states in the opening post she's not tech savy, and they still berated her, noses pointed highly to the heavens.
How to get minecraft crash report.
And yes that is a warning, Lex is an admin on forge forums that's what we call a warning.
Assuming one has enough google fu to discern the results given. Which judging by their inquiries they don't. Following your advice I did a quick google "minecraft crash log file" first site, was the wiki. There in is listed no solid location for the file, and a liteny of CMD based java commands to force a log file, something I would not expect someone who self professed to be "those that are not file savvy?" to be able to understand let alone follow. Then there's the whole issue of opperant OS the poster was using, and their ability to determine the difference in locations of their minecraft folder (XP / 7) if they can even find it in the first place (it is in a directory that is by default hidden).
I would consider it a warning if they'd provided a path location for the log they were demanding, but considering the cussing and general attitude displayed in his first post. Read it how you wish, I would have taken it as a threat too. All in all, far to many assumptions being taken for the distasteful responses given to a simple question, where the first response from the author was a demeaning "How exactly is that complicated?"
I know where you are coming from but Forge isn't all about that. Forge adds ways to basically edit the core code of the game without making base edits. ModLoader didn't and doesn't do that.
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
My Github page.
The entire Minecraft shader development community now has its own Discord server! Feel free to join and chat with all the developers!
This is Forge Mod Loader.
You can find the source code at all times at https://github.com/cpw/FML
This minecraft mod is a clean open source implementation of a mod loader for
minecraft servers, minecraft bukkit servers, and minecraft clients.
The code is authored by cpw.
It implements API defined by the client side ModLoader, authored by Risugami.
http://www.minecraft...et/topic/75440-
It also contains suggestions and hints from LexManos, author of MinecraftForge.
http://www.mod-build...inecraft-forge/
Finally, it contains an implementation of topological sort based on that
published at http://keithschwarz....opological-sort