"One thing that kind of fell between chairs is the mod support.. Sorry about that, I take full responsibility for letting that get forgotten about. But when it comes to the new launcher, it got folded into a new exciting project I won’t talk about yet." notch.tumblr.com
That is very disappointing, prior to this I felt "some" mod authors were harsh for going after Notch for "lack of concentration/vision" and being "haphazard" in the way he added features to Minecraft. I'm beginning to see their point.
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Why??! Why my piggy?! I loved-ed you, piggy! I loved-ed you!
It is up to Notch on how he wants to update HIS game, but I do think all of this "prerelease" stuff is just a stupid idea, he should acknowledge that it would be harder for modders to keep up with that.
Sure it's his game, and if he doesn't want official mod support that is fine. But there has been a carrot held out in front of us that has been keeping some of us holding our breath. "Not going to update until API" "no SMP version until API" etc...
I wonder what will happen to all these code bases when (if) Official API comes out. It would be nice to have an idea that you wont have to start from scratch.
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Why??! Why my piggy?! I loved-ed you, piggy! I loved-ed you!
I personally hope this development does not do any real serious damage to the extremely good mods that have been released for Minecraft. I agree that this carrot in front of our noses about the release of mod support with the full game release is very disappointing. I have not ever actually MADE a mod, but I enjoy using the creations that other people work so hard on.
Okay, somebody explain this to me in plain English. It looks like Mods have been completely removed from Minecraft. You can't upload mods from the main menu screen anymore (although it was still available in Beta 1.9.5). This option was deliberately removed. Why?
The cynic in me says Notch is cutting out the mod community because he intends to sell future Minecraft updates for a premium, and it's damned hard to compete with "free." That's pretty cynical for a video game that's still grossly incomplete as it heads to retail.
I'm busy compiling notes and sketches for a Minecraft mod project, and I'm going to be very pissed off if I'm getting cut off at the knees because Notch wants to make a quick buck scamming his fans. But this is what today's video game industry is all about. I will be more than happy to be wrong on this, but Notch owes us an explanation.
Okay, somebody explain this to me in plain English. It looks like Mods have been completely removed from Minecraft. You can't upload mods from the main menu screen anymore (although it was still available in Beta 1.9.5). This option was deliberately removed. Why?
The cynic in me says Notch is cutting out the mod community because he intends to sell future Minecraft updates for a premium, and it's damned hard to compete with "free." That's pretty cynical for a video game that's still grossly incomplete as it heads to retail.
I'm busy compiling notes and sketches for a Minecraft mod project, and I'm going to be very pissed off if I'm getting cut off at the knees because Notch wants to make a quick buck scamming his fans. But this is what today's video game industry is all about. I will be more than happy to be wrong on this, but Notch owes us an explanation.
Take your notes and find a Minecraft clone to mod?
Take your notes and find a Minecraft clone to mod?
What does that even mean? Find some other game to mod? What is that? And what about this fan community that has supported Minecraft and made Notch all of his money? Where do they go? Is Notch really telling everyone to go **** themselves, because, hey, I wanna make more money selling DLC patches?
It is up to Notch on how he wants to update HIS game, but I do think all of this "prerelease" stuff is just a stupid idea, he should acknowledge that it would be harder for modders to keep up with that.
With few exceptions, they don't try to keep up. I don't even think a ton of the general Minecraft community expect them to do so.
Quit wrapping yourselves up in this naive notion that Notch is actively working to **** off his fanbase. A guy like Notch understands the sort of PR nightmare that would create, and he understands it better than any of you likely do.
The cynic in me says Notch is cutting out the mod community because he intends to sell future Minecraft updates for a premium, and it's damned hard to compete with "free." That's pretty cynical for a video game that's still grossly incomplete as it heads to retail.
Wait so is he actually planning to sell future updates after it is released? If he does, I could see ALOT of users quitting.
Wait so is he actually planning to sell future updates after it is released? If he does, I could see ALOT of users quitting.
He announced this ages ago. Also bear in mind that these content patches will probably be larger than, say, 1.7, or 1.6 by themselves. But yes, he plans to sell new minecraft content.
Notch said a LONG time ago that support will always be free, like bugfixes and stuff, but you will have to pay for extra content. Unless you have an alpha account (lucky me), they get future updates for free.
Okay, somebody explain this to me in plain English. It looks like Mods have been completely removed from Minecraft. You can't upload mods from the main menu screen anymore (although it was still available in Beta 1.9.5). This option was deliberately removed. Why?
The cynic in me says Notch is cutting out the mod community because he intends to sell future Minecraft updates for a premium, and it's damned hard to compete with "free." That's pretty cynical for a video game that's still grossly incomplete as it heads to retail.
I'm busy compiling notes and sketches for a Minecraft mod project, and I'm going to be very pissed off if I'm getting cut off at the knees because Notch wants to make a quick buck scamming his fans. But this is what today's video game industry is all about. I will be more than happy to be wrong on this, but Notch owes us an explanation.
No, mods were never really able to work with the thingy in the menu, mods work with adding stuff to the minecraft jar. But you are a modder so you already knew that. Future minecraft updates like adding modding stuff will be free, but say that he wants to make a new gamemode with minecraft-zombies, that could be charged for.
He isn't cutting out anything, the compete with "free" stuff is nonsense because he has made 50 million or something. You say he is scamming you and cutting you off at the knees but I guess you don't know that much about modding at all. Maybe there's no thing to explain and you just don't get it.
Having to pay for new content will annoy me, but I can understand Notch wanting more money (I mean we all do right?). I just hope Beta users get a discount or even a delayed free release of content (Like, from 1 or 2 versions delayed.). I'll stop de-railing the thread now...
Inregards to the modding API. I think that it might be a bit pointless, but if it included easy to use tools, it could help new users with no Java experience edit and create tools, blocks, entities and mobs etc.
Also I think the "Textures and Mods" thingo was changed because before, it said mods because Notch was planning on putting in the API/Mod Support, but has just changed it to texture packs.
Personally the best thing Mojang could do to stimulate mod support is to release the full non obfuscated source code.
You will still have the 'compatibility' issues, but you won't have to deal with obfuscation.
Wasn't this the proposed solution a while ago? I'm guessing they got a bit concerned that it could lead to one or several forks of the code base, which theoretically could "remove" Mojang as the lead developers of Minecraft. They could try and prevent it with some legalese, but I doubt they are willing to bet on that.
Guys, guys guys. There isn't some big conspiracy behind the scenes by mojang to make everyone have to pay for new content; he just ran into a roadblock when it comes to the planned API. And anyone who knows anything about mods and APIs could probably guess what that roadblock is from the word go: Theres no way that mojang could create a full API that has all the hooks that modders would need, and in the meantime the community has already created thier own tools. For them to waste thier time on creating what would be a currently redundant API right before release would have been a bad choice on thier part imo; even if they did, people would still have to install other APIs anyways.
Start mourning the death of modding when notch forbids it in the terms of use. Till then...this changes pretty much nothing. For the makers of MCP, modloader and other APIs, it's just work as normal.
Minecraft already has a mod api or 2. Their called MCP, Modloader, MLMP, Minecraft forge, and ShockAhPI
They worked perfectly well so far, i don't see how not having an official api is a problem. If we did, all of these other APIs would just get ported over anyways. No where does Notch say modding is now forbidden, it just means they havent gotten to putting in official support yet.
You can make a 'simple' mod API like ModLoader to make basic mods. But if you want to create an more advanced mod you are going to want access to the original source and change that.
Personally the best thing Mojang could do to stimulate mod support is to release the full non obfuscated source code.
You will still have the 'compatibility' issues, but you won't have to deal with obfuscation.
How do you think mods are made now? There already is acces to the whole code (I know it cause I have it) in MCP where you can edit everything you want, that's even how modloader works, you decompile the jar+modloader with MCP and alter it, recompile and reobfuscate.
So does this mean the Modding API is still under consideration, or there will be no Modding API? FUUUUUUUUUUU........Wait. Maybe Notch would have second thoughts about the Modding API if some mod creators out there would show Notch some of the popular mods they have created (unless they already have).
Yet that 'source' is obfuscated. You can decompile any Java program, but decompilers never return the original source. You'll end up fixing a ton of errors caused by the decompiler. This is exactly what MCP does, fix errors caused by decompiling.
You could use a system like MCP to 'decompile' Minecraft, fix all the errors and rename everything so it makes sense.
It's just a painful and very long process to do each time Minecraft updates. THATS why I said it would be best if Mojang released the original non obfuscated source code. People wouldn't be reliant on a system like MCP. If MCP wasn't made there would hardly be any mods, as it saves people a shitload of time.
Yeah, the unobsfucated source alone would be really helpful. There's already a huge community built up around the current system, changing it would do more harm than good. There does need to be an easier way to install/remove mods, crawling through jar files is tedious and likely too technical for a lot of people.
That is very disappointing, prior to this I felt "some" mod authors were harsh for going after Notch for "lack of concentration/vision" and being "haphazard" in the way he added features to Minecraft. I'm beginning to see their point.
I wonder what will happen to all these code bases when (if) Official API comes out. It would be nice to have an idea that you wont have to start from scratch.
The cynic in me says Notch is cutting out the mod community because he intends to sell future Minecraft updates for a premium, and it's damned hard to compete with "free." That's pretty cynical for a video game that's still grossly incomplete as it heads to retail.
I'm busy compiling notes and sketches for a Minecraft mod project, and I'm going to be very pissed off if I'm getting cut off at the knees because Notch wants to make a quick buck scamming his fans. But this is what today's video game industry is all about. I will be more than happy to be wrong on this, but Notch owes us an explanation.
Take your notes and find a Minecraft clone to mod?
What does that even mean? Find some other game to mod? What is that? And what about this fan community that has supported Minecraft and made Notch all of his money? Where do they go? Is Notch really telling everyone to go **** themselves, because, hey, I wanna make more money selling DLC patches?
That can't be true. I can't believe it.
With few exceptions, they don't try to keep up. I don't even think a ton of the general Minecraft community expect them to do so.
Quit wrapping yourselves up in this naive notion that Notch is actively working to **** off his fanbase. A guy like Notch understands the sort of PR nightmare that would create, and he understands it better than any of you likely do.
-Nicolas Negroponte
Wait so is he actually planning to sell future updates after it is released? If he does, I could see ALOT of users quitting.
He announced this ages ago. Also bear in mind that these content patches will probably be larger than, say, 1.7, or 1.6 by themselves. But yes, he plans to sell new minecraft content.
-Nicolas Negroponte
No, mods were never really able to work with the thingy in the menu, mods work with adding stuff to the minecraft jar. But you are a modder so you already knew that. Future minecraft updates like adding modding stuff will be free, but say that he wants to make a new gamemode with minecraft-zombies, that could be charged for.
He isn't cutting out anything, the compete with "free" stuff is nonsense because he has made 50 million or something. You say he is scamming you and cutting you off at the knees but I guess you don't know that much about modding at all. Maybe there's no thing to explain and you just don't get it.
Inregards to the modding API. I think that it might be a bit pointless, but if it included easy to use tools, it could help new users with no Java experience edit and create tools, blocks, entities and mobs etc.
Also I think the "Textures and Mods" thingo was changed because before, it said mods because Notch was planning on putting in the API/Mod Support, but has just changed it to texture packs.
Wasn't this the proposed solution a while ago? I'm guessing they got a bit concerned that it could lead to one or several forks of the code base, which theoretically could "remove" Mojang as the lead developers of Minecraft. They could try and prevent it with some legalese, but I doubt they are willing to bet on that.
Minecraft does not currently have mod support, it hasn't failed. Also, the no mods = no fun argument is... Baseless, put kindly.
-Nicolas Negroponte
Minecraft already has a mod api or 2. Their called MCP, Modloader, MLMP, Minecraft forge, and ShockAhPI
They worked perfectly well so far, i don't see how not having an official api is a problem. If we did, all of these other APIs would just get ported over anyways. No where does Notch say modding is now forbidden, it just means they havent gotten to putting in official support yet.
How do you think mods are made now? There already is acces to the whole code (I know it cause I have it) in MCP where you can edit everything you want, that's even how modloader works, you decompile the jar+modloader with MCP and alter it, recompile and reobfuscate.
Yeah, the unobsfucated source alone would be really helpful. There's already a huge community built up around the current system, changing it would do more harm than good. There does need to be an easier way to install/remove mods, crawling through jar files is tedious and likely too technical for a lot of people.