Haha, okay if that's how you want to play it, go right ahead. I understand how hard it must be to condemn harming children against their will for entertainment.
The problem is, when you oversimplify it, you can use it to justify stopping children from working with their families, and in some cases 'children suffering' is a far better alternative to say... starving to death, or being put on public assistance.
I'm not sure how my question could be used that way at all, and that wasn't my intention.
EDIT: Since this conversation ended in a weird place, here's what I was heading towards (for the benefit of anyone reading this in the future):
- It is unethical to cause humans to suffer unless you have sufficient justification
- Entertainment, pleasure, or convenience are not sufficient justifications to cause that suffering
- There is no special quality that humans possess that justifies human suffering being worth more moral consideration than animal suffering (that is, for any 'uniquely' human trait, there are some humans that do not possess that trait whose suffering we don't devalue in the same way [children, people with severe mental disabilities/brain damage])
Therefore, it is unethical to cause animals to suffer unless you have sufficient justification
And if that's the case, then:
- It is unethical to cause animals to suffer unless you have sufficient justification
- Entertainment, pleasure, or convenience are not sufficient justifications to cause that suffering
- The production of animal products causes animals to suffer (I'd argue inherently, but, at the very least, current production methods cause undeniable suffering)
- Animal products are generally unnecessary for health or survival (that is, the only justifications for producing animal products for the majority of the population is pleasure [i.e. taste] or convenience)
Therefore, it is unethical to produce (or support the production of) animal products unless absolutely necessary.
That's sorta what I meant, I noticed that switching several of your items to their vanilla versions was reasonably easy, I wasn't sure if that was intended behavior or if I should use minetweaker to prevent it.
It seems to throw "java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: value already present: veganoption.lyewater" every time I attempt to join the server. Removing the mod gets rid of the problem.
If you could help me figure out this problem, that would be great. I've googled it but had no results. For the record, I'm using version 0.1.1
It seems to throw "java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: value already present: veganoption.lyewater" every time I attempt to join the server. Removing the mod gets rid of the problem.
If you could help me figure out this problem, that would be great. I've googled it but had no results. For the record, I'm using version 0.1.1
Looks like that might be due to the change in the Forge fluid code in Forge v1421. What version of Forge are you using?
Might I also note that singleplayer works fine, but playing on a server causes the issue.
Tracking down all those mods would take me a while. If you could do one (or both) of the following, it'd be a huge help:
- Zip up your client's mods folder and your server's mods folder and PM me a link to them.
- Remove all mods except The Vegan Option and see if you still get the error. If you do not still get the error, then add back all the mods and then remove mods in chunks until you no longer get the error, and then narrow down which mod(s) the error is being caused by by adding them back until you get the error again.
Thank you: I planned on building a large library, which requires books, which requires leather, which requires lots of cattle. So I built a pen and bred cows. As I went to "harvest" leather I was struck with a deep sadness: why did I have to slaughter cattle to make books? It was cruel and pointless. There are plenty of other ways to make books, scrolls, and so on.
The search for alternatives lead me here. So thank you for this mod.
Curious: jute fibers drop from large ferns. However, ferns are not a crop nor can you generate them via bone meal in the manner that you can generate flowers and grass. So the only way to find jute fibers are to hunt down a biome with ferns. (Correct?)
Question: any thoughts on making ferns function similar to sunflowers, lilacs, and roses? That is: using bone meal on them makes them generate a copy of themselves. Alternatively making them into a crop?
Thank you: I planned on building a large library, which requires books, which requires leather, which requires lots of cattle. So I built a pen and bred cows. As I went to "harvest" leather I was struck with a deep sadness: why did I have to slaughter cattle to make books? It was cruel and pointless. There are plenty of other ways to make books, scrolls, and so on.
The search for alternatives lead me here. So thank you for this mod.
Curious: jute fibers drop from large ferns. However, ferns are not a crop nor can you generate them via bone meal in the manner that you can generate flowers and grass. So the only way to find jute fibers are to hunt down a biome with ferns. (Correct?)
Question: any thoughts on making ferns function similar to sunflowers, lilacs, and roses? That is: using bone meal on them makes them generate a copy of themselves. Alternatively making them into a crop?
Thanks!
Really happy to hear that!
The vanilla mechanic for multiplying ferns is this: you can bone meal a single fern to create a double fern, and then you can shear a double fern to get two single ferns. It's a bit weird, and I have been thinking of making it a bit less weird (like maybe adding a growth cycle to single ferns to grow into double ferns on their own), but I'm not sure; I don't want to mess with vanilla mechanics too much.
The vanilla mechanic for multiplying ferns is this: you can bone meal a single fern to create a double fern, and then you can shear a double fern to get two single ferns. It's a bit weird, and I have been thinking of making it a bit less weird (like maybe adding a growth cycle to single ferns to grow into double ferns on their own), but I'm not sure; I don't want to mess with vanilla mechanics too much.
I don't want to make this mod to overpowered... but perhaps, rather than altering Vanilla, or adding another block, perhaps you can make it so double tall grass also drops jute fibers, but at an even lower rate/reduced rate (I think its like... 10 percent or something? I can't remember, I stopped using this mod a bit ago because there were just to many options and I've found myself content with slaughtering hords of zombies and burning their flesh... not very vegan I know, but I enjoy a thick juicy steak, sorry to those who are)
Haha, okay if that's how you want to play it, go right ahead. I understand how hard it must be to condemn harming children against their will for entertainment.
The problem is, when you oversimplify it, you can use it to justify stopping children from working with their families, and in some cases 'children suffering' is a far better alternative to say... starving to death, or being put on public assistance.
I'm not sure how my question could be used that way at all, and that wasn't my intention.
EDIT: Since this conversation ended in a weird place, here's what I was heading towards (for the benefit of anyone reading this in the future):
- It is unethical to cause humans to suffer unless you have sufficient justification
- Entertainment, pleasure, or convenience are not sufficient justifications to cause that suffering
- There is no special quality that humans possess that justifies human suffering being worth more moral consideration than animal suffering (that is, for any 'uniquely' human trait, there are some humans that do not possess that trait whose suffering we don't devalue in the same way [children, people with severe mental disabilities/brain damage])
Therefore, it is unethical to cause animals to suffer unless you have sufficient justification
And if that's the case, then:
- It is unethical to cause animals to suffer unless you have sufficient justification
- Entertainment, pleasure, or convenience are not sufficient justifications to cause that suffering
- The production of animal products causes animals to suffer (I'd argue inherently, but, at the very least, current production methods cause undeniable suffering)
- Animal products are generally unnecessary for health or survival (that is, the only justifications for producing animal products for the majority of the population is pleasure [i.e. taste] or convenience)
Therefore, it is unethical to produce (or support the production of) animal products unless absolutely necessary.
ahh, I see.
Quick question, you were intending for other mods to easily convert to default items, right?
Not sure what you mean by 'convert to default items.' I do want there to be as much cross-mod compatibility as possible.
That's sorta what I meant, I noticed that switching several of your items to their vanilla versions was reasonably easy, I wasn't sure if that was intended behavior or if I should use minetweaker to prevent it.
Can you be more specific? Which items?
When joining my multiplayer server, I get a message saying "A fatal error has occurred, this connection has been terminated."
Here is a snippet from my fml-client-latest.log file: http://pastebin.com/0xh3u6gg
It seems to throw "java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: value already present: veganoption.lyewater" every time I attempt to join the server. Removing the mod gets rid of the problem.
If you could help me figure out this problem, that would be great. I've googled it but had no results. For the record, I'm using version 0.1.1
Looks like that might be due to the change in the Forge fluid code in Forge v1421. What version of Forge are you using?
I'm using 10.13.4.1448, the current recommended version.
Will take a look, thanks for reporting it.
Can't reproduce it with Forge 1448 and The Vegan Option alone. Can I get a list of the other mods you have installed?
Might I also note that singleplayer works fine, but playing on a server causes the issue.
AdvancedMachinesAS-1.7.10.jar
AgriCraft-1.7.10-1.3.1.jar
AOBD-2.8.1.jar
AppleCore-mc1.7.10-1.1.0.jar
appliedenergistics2-rv2-stable-10.jar
backpack-2.0.1-1.7.x.jar
bdlib-1.9.1.97-mc1.7.10.jar
BiblioCraft[v1.10.5][MC1.7.10].jar
BiblioWoods[BiomesOPlenty][v1.9].jar
BiblioWoods[Forestry][v1.7].jar
BigReactors-0.4.3A.jar
BioLock-v2.2.pr1-1.7.10.jar
BiomesOPlenty-1.7.10-2.1.0.1364-universal.jar
BloodMagic-1.7.10-1.3.3-11.jar
buildcraft-7.0.20.jar
buildcraft-compat-7.0.11.jar
Carpenter's Blocks v3.3.6 - MC 1.7.10.jar
ChickenChunks-1.7.10-1.3.4.16-universal.jar
Chisel2-2.4.1.40.jar
ChiselFacades-1.7.10-2.11-cricket.jar
CodeChickenCore-1.7.10-1.0.4.29-universal.jar
CoFHCore-[1.7.10]3.0.3-303.jar
CollectiveFramework-1.0.0-129.jar
CompactSolars-1.7.10-4.4.39.315-universal.jar
ComputerCraft1.74.jar
denseores-1.6.2.jar
EnderIO-1.7.10-2.2.8.381.jar
EnderStorage-1.7.10-1.4.5.27-universal.jar
EnderTech-1.7.10-0.3.2.388.jar
EnderZoo-1.7.10-1.0.13.30.jar
extrautilities-1.2.9.jar
FlatSigns-1.7.10-universal-2.1.0.19.jar
forestry_1.7.10-3.6.3.20.jar
ForgeMultipart-1.7.10-1.2.0.345-universal.jar
gendustry-1.5.2.107-mc1.7.10.jar
generators-0.9.17.102-mc1.7.10.jar
growthcraft-core-1.7.10-2.1.0a.jar
growthcraft-fishtrap-1.7.10-2.1.0a.jar
HelpFixer-1.1.9.jar
IC2NuclearControl-2.2.5a-GoingForTheKill.jar
iChunUtil-4.2.2.jar
IguanaTinkerTweaks-1.7.10-2.1.5.jar
ImmersiveEngineering-0.5.2.jar
immibis-core-59.1.1.jar
immibis-microblocks-59.1.1.jar
immibis-peripherals-59.0.2.jar
industrialcraft-2-2.2.759-experimental.jar
InventoryTweaks-1.58-147.jar
ironchest-1.7.10-6.0.60.741-universal.jar
Jabba-1.2.1a_1.7.10.jar
Ladders-0.5.0-MC1.7.10.jar
logisticspipes-0.9.2.33.jar
Mantle-1.7.10-0.3.2.jar
Mekanism-1.7.10-8.1.7.252.jar
MekanismGenerators-1.7.10-8.1.7.252.jar
MekanismTools-1.7.10-8.1.7.252.jar
MineFactoryReloaded-[1.7.10]2.8.0-104.jar
MrTJPCore-1.1.0.31-universal.jar
neiaddons-1.12.11.36-mc1.7.10.jar
NEIIntegration-MC1.7.10-1.0.12.jar
NotEnoughCodecs-1.7.10-0.3.jar
NotEnoughItems-1.7.10-1.0.4.95-universal.jar
NotEnoughKeys-1.7.10-1.0.0b29.jar
OpenBlocks-1.7.10-1.4.4.jar
openccsensors-1.7.5.jar
OpenComputers-MC1.7.10-1.5.15.31-universal.jar
OpenModsLib-1.7.10-0.8.jar
OpenPeripheralAddons-1.7.10-0.4.jar
OpenPeripheralCore-1.7.10-1.2.jar
OpenPeripheralIntegration-1.7.10-0.3.jar
Pam's HarvestCraft 1.7.10j.jar
Peripherals++-1.3.2.jar
ProjectRed-1.7.10-4.7.0pre8.92-Base.jar
ProjectRed-1.7.10-4.7.0pre8.92-Compat.jar
ProjectRed-1.7.10-4.7.0pre8.92-Integration.jar
ProjectRed-1.7.10-4.7.0pre8.92-Lighting.jar
Railcraft_1.7.10-9.6.1.0.jar
RandomThings-2.2.4.jar
secretroomsmod-1.7.10-4.7.1.413.jar
SimplyJetpacks-MC1.7.10-1.5.1.jar
SolarExpansion-Basic-1.6a.jar
SpiceOfLife-mc1.7.10-1.2.3.jar
StevesCarts2.0.0.b18.jar
StevesFactoryManagerA93.jar
StorageDrawers-1.7.10-1.5.12.jar
Sync-4.0.0.jar
TConstruct-1.7.10-1.8.5.jar
Thaumcraft-1.7.10-4.2.3.5.jar
thaumichorizons-1.7.10-1.1.6.jar
ThermalDynamics-[1.7.10]1.1.0-161.jar
ThermalExpansion-[1.7.10]4.0.3B1-218.jar
ThermalFoundation-[1.7.10]1.2.0-102.jar
TiCTooltips-mc1.7.10-1.2.5.jar
TMechworks_mc1.7.10_0.2.8.jar
universal-electricity-4.0.0.88-core.jar
VeganOption-mc1.7.10-0.1.1.jar
Waila-1.5.10_1.7.10.jar
WailaHarvestability-mc1.7.x-1.1.2.jar
weaponmod-1.14.3.jar
WR-CBE-1.7.10-1.4.1.9-universal.jar
[1.7.10]bspkrsCore-universal-6.16.jar
[1.7.10]Treecapitator-universal-2.0.4.jar
Tracking down all those mods would take me a while. If you could do one (or both) of the following, it'd be a huge help:
- Zip up your client's mods folder and your server's mods folder and PM me a link to them.
- Remove all mods except The Vegan Option and see if you still get the error. If you do not still get the error, then add back all the mods and then remove mods in chunks until you no longer get the error, and then narrow down which mod(s) the error is being caused by by adding them back until you get the error again.
Still unable to reproduce using all of the same mods and Forge 1448. Are you positive both your client and your server are running Forge 1448?
100% positive.
Here is my entire fml-client-latest: http://pastebin.com/ZJnKCKc8
And the fml-server-latest: http://pastebin.com/bRUXci0C
Strange...
Here's mine:
Client: http://pastebin.com/3VxGsQAS
Server: http://pastebin.com/Zy8VxpLc
Not sure how to debug this one.
Thank you: I planned on building a large library, which requires books, which requires leather, which requires lots of cattle. So I built a pen and bred cows. As I went to "harvest" leather I was struck with a deep sadness: why did I have to slaughter cattle to make books? It was cruel and pointless. There are plenty of other ways to make books, scrolls, and so on.
The search for alternatives lead me here. So thank you for this mod.
Curious: jute fibers drop from large ferns. However, ferns are not a crop nor can you generate them via bone meal in the manner that you can generate flowers and grass. So the only way to find jute fibers are to hunt down a biome with ferns. (Correct?)
Question: any thoughts on making ferns function similar to sunflowers, lilacs, and roses? That is: using bone meal on them makes them generate a copy of themselves. Alternatively making them into a crop?
Thanks!
Really happy to hear that!
The vanilla mechanic for multiplying ferns is this: you can bone meal a single fern to create a double fern, and then you can shear a double fern to get two single ferns. It's a bit weird, and I have been thinking of making it a bit less weird (like maybe adding a growth cycle to single ferns to grow into double ferns on their own), but I'm not sure; I don't want to mess with vanilla mechanics too much.
I don't want to make this mod to overpowered... but perhaps, rather than altering Vanilla, or adding another block, perhaps you can make it so double tall grass also drops jute fibers, but at an even lower rate/reduced rate (I think its like... 10 percent or something? I can't remember, I stopped using this mod a bit ago because there were just to many options and I've found myself content with slaughtering hords of zombies and burning their flesh... not very vegan I know, but I enjoy a thick juicy steak, sorry to those who are)