Okay, I am just going to ask. How the heck do I use this? I must be doing something wrong as I can't seem to get any of the features. What would I setup my config to to do the following:
-- Merge Vanilla and Highland bioms; can't you set B:HighlandsBiomesOn=true and then make a vanilla game and get them?
-- I still see your "derpy islands" out in the middle of the ocean, even though I have "B:"Allow Derpy Islands"=false"
This is just a couple of things I am not seeing. I am running 1.7.10 so I am just guessing that is the reason as most 1.7.2 mods don't play well with it but I want to just know, do I just make a world and go with it or what? Maybe I am just really tired...
I could help with that, I merged the newest AMIDST with your 0.2 customized version of it for myself and made it possible for it to support both map types, Vanilla and CC worldgens. But you haven't updated your repository with your latest changes to AMIDST yet.
Repository is updated. Thanks for the work - do you want to put in a pull request? You might even want to run the repository since it sounds like you know AMIDST better than I. I'm really dreading the update to 0.4 - it's such a pain dealing with the shift between unobfuscated routines and indirect calls to obfuscated routines.
Okay, I am just going to ask. How the heck do I use this? I must be doing something wrong as I can't seem to get any of the features. What would I setup my config to to do the following:
-- Merge Vanilla and Highland bioms; can't you set B:HighlandsBiomesOn=true and then make a vanilla game and get them?
-- I still see your "derpy islands" out in the middle of the ocean, even though I have "B:"Allow Derpy Islands"=false"
This is just a couple of things I am not seeing. I am running 1.7.10 so I am just guessing that is the reason as most 1.7.2 mods don't play well with it but I want to just know, do I just make a world and go with it or what? Maybe I am just really tired...
It's a lot of settings. Do you have noGenerationChanges=false and vanillaLandandClimate=false? NoGenerationChanges makes CC change nothing about the map, just record the map so it can change things later without chunk walls. VanillaLandAndClimate means you'll get the exact lands and climates of vanilla; the only thing that will change is the exact biomes.
The "derpy" islands I refer to are the little sandbar islands vanilla puts into the deep ocean. Actually that config isn't working; they are gone no matter what setting you pick if you're running noGenerationChanges=false and vanillaLandandClimate=false. The smallish 1-to-4 biome islands are created by the MediumIslandFrequency setting; they go away if that's 0;
Yes, you will absolutely get both Highlands and Vanilla biomes with both settings on. It's the setting I prefer. Highlands has to be in your mod folder (CC doesn't import Highlands; if it can't find it CC will turn those biomes off). Also, you have to make changes in the world-specific config files. If you have a world with Highlands off, and you change your *general* config file to Highlands on, the existing world doesn't change. You have to change the world-specific config to get a change.
The last thing I can think of is that you have to go a ways to see new terrain. The average is about 800 blocks. I've gone as far as 1200 before new stuff appears. You can set biomeRingsNotSaved = -1 (which is off) and you'll see new terrain in about half that distance, but the junctions will be more obvious. Not so much chunk walls (they're small and rare) and not climate shifts (with climateRings still on) but you'll see odd juxtapositions fairly often like weird little strips of biome and sub-biomes where you wouldn't normally see them.
In regards to the options blizzard; my long-term plan is to have them controlled by buttons and spinners in-game, and to have an "advisor" that will describe effects in plain English. But that's a ways off yet.
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Climate Control- Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more! Underground Biomes Constructs - 24 different kinds of stone, with complete sets of stairs, slabs, walls, and buttons. ExplorerCraft - map utilities for tiling, carrying, and marking maps.
Okay I have maybe an idea for a new feature Maybe a adjustable sea level and that you can set a max heigh of hills?
Those things are not affected by the things CC affects. That's basically affected by the things in 1.8 custom generation. I was considering writing something to do the 1.8 custom generation in 1.7, as a separate mod, but it doesn't look like I'll have a chance anytime soon.
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Climate Control- Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more! Underground Biomes Constructs - 24 different kinds of stone, with complete sets of stairs, slabs, walls, and buttons. ExplorerCraft - map utilities for tiling, carrying, and marking maps.
The bridge mod to convert 0.2 CC worlds to 0.4 is written. I'm in the process of testing it. If anybody wants to test it, I can post a link.
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Climate Control- Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more! Underground Biomes Constructs - 24 different kinds of stone, with complete sets of stairs, slabs, walls, and buttons. ExplorerCraft - map utilities for tiling, carrying, and marking maps.
It's a lot of settings. -- Snip --
In regards to the options blizzard; my long-term plan is to have them controlled by buttons and spinners in-game, and to have an "advisor" that will describe effects in plain English. But that's a ways off yet.
Thanks! I shall review and see what I may have wrong. As long as I can usually get a base idea, I can extrapolate to the rest, so this will help a lot.
Oh, one thing - if I start a vanilla world (new) and have the config in my config folder to B:HighlandsBiomesOn=true, I do NOT have to select "Highlands" and a world gen option, right? It will just import then in vanilla... right? (I just want to be sure we create a proper world with the biomes we want!)
Would it help - even though you don't have it ready yet - to make CC be a world gen option, and then it would have some kind of interface window/screen/form you would go through to make the setting as you wish? Not sure how that would all work but i think you get the idea. Not sure how that would work in a server tho... guess I just have the ideas and none of the execution... I must be in management!
Okay, stupid question time again. Or more of a clarification... anywho...
So, as I understand this, then, basically what I/we can do with this mod is make it so ~1000 blocks there is a chance of "sensible" transition from normal to hot or normal to wet or normal to cold, etc. etc. And the various setting allows us to control the range it happens and how big of a change it is. It also makes it so when to do switch biomes for any reason, there is less of a "sheer" to the chunk and the transition attempts to make more sense, rather than going from plains to extreme hills having this sudden and abrupt ride in the land, its more "gradual" so geologically makes sense (as best as MC can do).
Now I know I don't know all the setting but that is basically it, right? (I have spent a lot of time in the sun lately so I think my brain is fried so please understand my lack of the basics here...)
Oh, one thing - if I start a vanilla world (new) and have the config in my config folder to B:HighlandsBiomesOn=true, I do NOT have to select "Highlands" and a world gen option, right? It will just import then in vanilla... right? (I just want to be sure we create a proper world with the biomes we want!)
Would it help - even though you don't have it ready yet - to make CC be a world gen option, and then it would have some kind of interface window/screen/form you would go through to make the setting as you wish? Not sure how that would all work but i think you get the idea. Not sure how that would work in a server tho... guess I just have the ideas and none of the execution... I must be in management!
That's correct. CC works on the base world types - default, amplified, and large biomes. It overules the biome settings, so a "large biomes" world is actually the same as default (but you can set your world to either biome size, and several other besides. Amplified is still amplified.
I was planning to have control screens. There are ways to get buttons on the screen without resorting to a separate world type. The world type business is a terrible kludge and I'm trying to avoid it.
So, as I understand this, then, basically what I/we can do with this mod is make it so ~1000 blocks there is a chance of "sensible" transition from normal to hot or normal to wet or normal to cold, etc. etc. And the various setting allows us to control the range it happens and how big of a change it is. It also makes it so when to do switch biomes for any reason, there is less of a "sheer" to the chunk and the transition attempts to make more sense, rather than going from plains to extreme hills having this sudden and abrupt ride in the land, its more "gradual" so geologically makes sense (as best as MC can do).
Yes, that's the overview. Locking by biome only means CC doesn't switch until all the biomes it thinks are on your current map are complete, then it moves to the next biome and put in the one that should be there by your new settings. Locking by sub-biome does the same, but with sub-biomes. The #s are for control; but I found playing around with biome settings that 3 was basically a standard. Smaller numbers for the biome locking increase the boundary for no benefit. Larger numbers have no effect, because I had to put some limits in the internal operations. I was expecting a trade-off where larger numbers would give you narrower and narrower transitions with increasing chances of chunk walls but it didn't work that way. 3 was fine, but when I went up to 4 it was chunk walls everywhere. I left it configurable because I suspect it may have to go up with large view distances (but maybe not; that's what playtesting is for).
I haven't tested increase the sub-biome number; you might well be able to have a larger number and thus a small transition zone without chunk boundaries.
Generally speaking, you can have almost any biome next to almost any other biome in Minecraft, so with biome locking on, the changes always look "Minecrafty". Sub-biomes, OTOH, have lots of rules (e.g. Forest hills is only supposed to happen next to Forest) so if you have sub-biome locking but not biome you'll see lots of shifts that make you say "hey, that looks weird". The price for the narrower transition zones. If you lock biomes you may as well lock sub-biomes to prevent limited chunk walls from sub-biome shifts.
Climate locking doesn't stop the chunk walls; it just means when a switch to a new biome occurs, it will be a "legitimate" boundary. I haven't tested it, but 3 is probably a standard there too. It seems to be small enough to stop bad transitions, but a higher number will probably have no effect.
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How do you use it? I can't figure it out i'm afraid :C
There's instructions in the spoilers on the OP. But tell me what you want to do, and I can probably tell you how to do it.
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I stuck it in, Did the steps, loaded the world, And nothing unusual happened, It's not a world-type option or anything
No, it isn't. It changes how the "normal" worlds (Default, Amplified, and Large Biomes) generate. Each biome is pretty similar to what it looks like in vanilla, but the arrangement of the biomes is different (and configurable). If you're just using the defaults, there will be more ocean than in 1.7 but less than in 1.6. The world will have land masses in an ocean rather than lakes in a continent like 1.7. Land masses vary a lot in size; but they're generally much smaller than in 1.6 (and especially 1.7, where they're infinite). Some will fit comfortably onto a single maxed-out map (the smallest I ever saw in 1.6 would have taken twelve). You'll still have climate zones, but they'll be half the size they are in 1.7. Jungle, MegaTaiga, and Mesa are unclustered and much easier to find. Coastlines are smoother, and there are a lot fewer lakes just inland from oceans.
Just looking around at spawn nothing will look unusual. If you've travelled multiple maps in vanilla and then do the same in a CC world, you'll probably start seeing the differences. Sometimes it's not so noticeable because it's more like people "expect" worlds to be; you'll notice it more if you switch back to vanilla (that's how I felt about the coastlines).
The big features of CC are that you can *change* your world to get something you like. You can have a world of medium islands smaller than a maxed-out map, or giant 1.6-style continents, or something in between, or a mix. You can have great big climate zones like 1.7, smaller ones like in 1.6 (that's the default); even smaller ones that are usually only a few biomes, or none at all with all the biomes mixed together. You can make any biome as common or as rare as you like. Don't like swamps? Set Swampland_Incidence=0 and you'll never see one ever. Love swamps? Set Swampland_Incidence = 1000 and random_biomes=true and you'll rarely see anything else. You can mix in Highlands, BoP, or Thaumcraft biomes in almost any combo.
Most significantly, you can change an *existing* world and you won't see chunk walls. So if you've started a vanilla 1.7 world and want to have a real ocean, you convert to CC and after a while your initial explorations will end up a continent surrounded by ocean, but without chunk walls. You do have to follow a 2-step transition to make that part work.
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So basically, If i've done the configuration and put it in "Mods",
I won't really notice it at all?
If you just hang around spawn, you won't notice, unless you've made some huge change to the incidences. If you travel, you'll notice. Here's some examples, using "Neko" for the seed:
This is the 2Kx2K area around spawn in vanilla 1.7:
Fairly typical 1.7 stuff: no ocean and almost all temperate terrain.
Here's the area near spawn in climate control 0.2 with the default settings:
You'd actually spawn near the center of the map; AMIDST is showing the spawn incorrectly. That's pretty different, but you could see that in 1.7 vanilla. You'd consider yourself very lucky to get all three climate zones on the spawn map, but it *could* happen in 1.7. So, different, probably better for most players, but not different enough you'd *know* you weren't playing vanilla.
The exact climate zones and biomes would be different in 0.4, because I changed the climate system, but you'd see something similar.
If you travel around, though, things look very different. Here's a 8Kx8K area around spawn in vanilla:
Again, pretty typical 1.7 stuff. Universal continent with large lakes.If you want to see snowy regions or jungle you're going to have to trek - it's about 4,000 blocks to the nearest snow and 5,000 blocks to the nearest jungle. If you actually want to find them on the ground without using AMIDST or something similar you'll have to search 30,000-60,000 blocks. If you want Mesa - well, tough, basically, it's even further.
At this scale CC looks very different:
You will never, ever see a map anything like that in 1.6 or 1.7 vanilla. You'll never see an ocean that big in 1.7 and you'll never see so many islands in 1.6. And, all three climate zones are close by. Now, while Mesa is nearby, jungle isn't and you'd have to search for it. Surprisingly, *searching* is much easier in default CC because you don't have to do detailed searches of the ocean areas. Usually, I find things are much closer than they'd be in 1.7, but even if something is many thousands of blocks away, as happens a lot in 1.7 vanilla, you can at least find it faster. And the killer problem with 1.7 is the searches, not the travel.
A lot of people will say "too much water!" to that map. Well, the CC defaults are designed to produce a lot of variety: oceanic areas with medium islands, giant sprawling continents, and all kinds of stuff inbetween. A bit farther off in the same seed is a giant continent:
Unlike 1.7, all climates are close to the center, and all three of the "unusual" biomes (jungle, mesa, and mega taiga) are on that map.
If you don't like ocean, you can alter the configs to have a world mostly like that. Personally, I like variety and surprises and the fact that if I explore a couple more maps to my east, I have almost no idea what it's going to look like - one island? an archipelago? a big peninsula? a giant continent? It keeps things fresh.
Also, higher "Incidence" means more will show up right? (I'd concider a simpler word :<)
Yes, higher incidence means more. Here's that spawn with "Mesa Plateau"=100, "Mesa Plateau F"=400, and Desert=500, with random biome on (otherwise, no mesa/desert in temperate or snowy zones every, regardless of incidence):
90% mesa and desert, with a little bit of other stuff scattered about.
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Climate Control- Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more! Underground Biomes Constructs - 24 different kinds of stone, with complete sets of stairs, slabs, walls, and buttons. ExplorerCraft - map utilities for tiling, carrying, and marking maps.
So, I've tested trying to get double size biomes/climate zones by using the biome size multiplier but that one ends up scaling everything up, the land and the biomes, which is not what I wanted it to do.
I wanted to be able to set biome size and climate zone size separately, and to be able to keep land sizes unchanged.
As you can see, the biome size relative to the isle size will never change by using that method.
And the ice plains in the southwestern corner is only 500m away from the desert and only 200m away from a jungle at biomescale 4, I need climate zones to be way bigger to avoid things like that.
Internally a "large island" is actually an agglomeration of roughly 16 biomes, and that's not really changeable. If you want fewer biomes per island the method would be to use a larger biome scale *and* move all your land masses to smaller sizes. So, set Large Continents to 0, Medium Continents to the old Large Continents, etc.
If your goal is just to keep the climates further away from each other, it would be possible to add some optional smoothing at a higher zoom level. Right now it smooths at the last possible step; this is because most people seem to want to have varied biomes as close as possible, and because I was avoiding the complications of having climate smoothing steps when the climates may not yet have been established. But you could smooth one step earlier with half-size zones (doubling the typical transition zone) or two steps earlier with full-size. Extreme climate zones do become less common with earlier smoothing but with the new climate system it's tolerable.
Btw, here is the latest AMIDST version merged with your CC module. It also has better biome coloration to avoid confusing certain biomes like mesas and deserts.
Thanks, that's great! Could you send me (or Github) the source code? At some point in the relatively near future I want to convert this to use the 0.4 terrain systems.
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The bridge mod to convert CC 0.2 worlds to CC 0.4 is posted as CC 0.3. The slightly confusing numbering is to make it clear 0.3 would be a downgrade from 0.4 You need to run 0.2 worlds once under 0.3; the mod will create a world-specific config, make the necessary changes to the configs, and record the generation for existing chunks to prevent chunk walls. You can now add Highlands, BoP, or Thaumcraft biomes to ongoing 0.2 worlds, or use the additional config options. Medium islands *will* be added to your worlds; if you don't want them set the incidence to 0 before generating any new terrain.
Climates will shift from the old system to the new one as you explore out; the primary effect is that there are more extreme climates inlands. Quartersize climates work much better now for that reason.
A comment on settings: subBiomeRingsNotSaved = 0 creates some oddly-placed subbiomes. You might want to set it to -1 before running CC 0.3. The disadvantage of this is that you'll get chunk walls on incompletely generated offshore islands. It might be possible to fix both problems by setting subBiomeRingsNotSaved=3 but I don't have time to test it.
I've posted an account of actually updating a large CC 0.2 world to CC 0.4 on my Hardcore Exploration Journal. See Episode 20 on the second page. You folks won't have to deal with the import bugs, of course, because they've been fixed.
I have also put out a new version of the beta, as I discovered it was not using the right multiplier when adjusting chunk coordinates for importing vanilla worlds.
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Just tried out 0.3 with Highlands on an ongoing world, and found something odd. Up in a northern bit of an unfinished map I discovered a small Alps sub-biome (I assume something that small is a sub-biome). The south and east sides of it had vertical biome borders, but the north and west sides had a smooth transition. To the south, east, and part of the north is jungle, and to the west is swamp. Any idea what's going on, or how to fix it?
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SPAAAAAAAAAAAACE!
"Look at me still talking when there's science to do. When I look out there it makes me glad I'm not you."
Just tried out 0.3 with Highlands on an ongoing world, and found something odd. Up in a northern bit of an unfinished map I discovered a small Alps sub-biome (I assume something that small is a sub-biome). The south and east sides of it had vertical biome borders, but the north and west sides had a smooth transition. To the south, east, and part of the north is jungle, and to the west is swamp. Any idea what's going on, or how to fix it?
Not offhand. Can you send your config folders, world-specific config, and (if reasonable) world folders to me, via email or dropbox? It's only the sub-biome that has problems, right? Otherwise you're seeing smooth transitions?
I have seen very occasional bad borders - actually a total of 3 in one world, and that's it. They were near ocean and probably involved some change to the biome detailing procedure. They were all low-profile and not really a big deal, not one a big mountain relief like you have.
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Climate Control- Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more! Underground Biomes Constructs - 24 different kinds of stone, with complete sets of stairs, slabs, walls, and buttons. ExplorerCraft - map utilities for tiling, carrying, and marking maps.
Not offhand. Can you send your config folders, world-specific config, and (if reasonable) world folders to me, via email or dropbox? It's only the sub-biome that has problems, right? Otherwise you're seeing smooth transitions?
I have seen very occasional bad borders - actually a total of 3 in one world, and that's it. They were near ocean and probably involved some change to the biome detailing procedure. They were all low-profile and not really a big deal, not one a big mountain relief like you have.
I wouldn't mind, though I don't know any of your contact info so I couldn't send you the world folder. Since that world is my main one and travel to unexplored areas takes some time, once I saw that issue I decided not to explore any more until it was resolved. I'll have a look around and report in. Also, your AMIDST download link appears to be broken.
Main config:
I wouldn't mind, though I don't know any of your contact info so I couldn't send you the world folder. Since that world is my main one and travel to unexplored areas takes some time, once I saw that issue I decided not to explore any more until it was resolved. I'll have a look around and report in. Also, your AMIDST download link appears to be broken.
Main config:
I don't see anything wonky in the configs. My email is in my profile, although the world folder may be too big. Do you have Dropbox or something like it? It's pretty easy to set up, and that would world fine.
It looks quite good. Do you think this will be compatible with 1.8 shortly thereafter ?
I have read your exchange with Seridor and I'm also looking for large islands (maybe 2k per 2k or 3k per 2k) with one or two biomes on each isle.
Mojang isn't going to want to change the biome locating code that CC works with, so it will *probably* be compatible with 1.8 shortly after Forge comes out for 1.8. Forge, however, might take a long while. It took almost 5 months to get a version of Forge I was comfortable working with after 1.7 came out, and 1.8 looks to have even more changes.
As it stands, the best you can do is to increase the biome size to 5, and the medium islands will then be the size of large islands but continue to have 1-4 biomes each.
Climate Control- Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more! Underground Biomes Constructs - 24 different kinds of stone, with complete sets of stairs, slabs, walls, and buttons. ExplorerCraft - map utilities for tiling, carrying, and marking maps.
Climate Control- Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more! Underground Biomes Constructs - 24 different kinds of stone, with complete sets of stairs, slabs, walls, and buttons. ExplorerCraft - map utilities for tiling, carrying, and marking maps.
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-- Merge Vanilla and Highland bioms; can't you set B:HighlandsBiomesOn=true and then make a vanilla game and get them?
-- I still see your "derpy islands" out in the middle of the ocean, even though I have "B:"Allow Derpy Islands"=false"
This is just a couple of things I am not seeing. I am running 1.7.10 so I am just guessing that is the reason as most 1.7.2 mods don't play well with it but I want to just know, do I just make a world and go with it or what? Maybe I am just really tired...
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Curse PremiumRepository is updated. Thanks for the work - do you want to put in a pull request? You might even want to run the repository since it sounds like you know AMIDST better than I. I'm really dreading the update to 0.4 - it's such a pain dealing with the shift between unobfuscated routines and indirect calls to obfuscated routines.
It's a lot of settings. Do you have noGenerationChanges=false and vanillaLandandClimate=false? NoGenerationChanges makes CC change nothing about the map, just record the map so it can change things later without chunk walls. VanillaLandAndClimate means you'll get the exact lands and climates of vanilla; the only thing that will change is the exact biomes.
The "derpy" islands I refer to are the little sandbar islands vanilla puts into the deep ocean. Actually that config isn't working; they are gone no matter what setting you pick if you're running noGenerationChanges=false and vanillaLandandClimate=false. The smallish 1-to-4 biome islands are created by the MediumIslandFrequency setting; they go away if that's 0;
Yes, you will absolutely get both Highlands and Vanilla biomes with both settings on. It's the setting I prefer. Highlands has to be in your mod folder (CC doesn't import Highlands; if it can't find it CC will turn those biomes off). Also, you have to make changes in the world-specific config files. If you have a world with Highlands off, and you change your *general* config file to Highlands on, the existing world doesn't change. You have to change the world-specific config to get a change.
The last thing I can think of is that you have to go a ways to see new terrain. The average is about 800 blocks. I've gone as far as 1200 before new stuff appears. You can set biomeRingsNotSaved = -1 (which is off) and you'll see new terrain in about half that distance, but the junctions will be more obvious. Not so much chunk walls (they're small and rare) and not climate shifts (with climateRings still on) but you'll see odd juxtapositions fairly often like weird little strips of biome and sub-biomes where you wouldn't normally see them.
In regards to the options blizzard; my long-term plan is to have them controlled by buttons and spinners in-game, and to have an "advisor" that will describe effects in plain English. But that's a ways off yet.
Climate Control- Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
Underground Biomes Constructs - 24 different kinds of stone, with complete sets of stairs, slabs, walls, and buttons.
ExplorerCraft - map utilities for tiling, carrying, and marking maps.
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Curse PremiumThose things are not affected by the things CC affects. That's basically affected by the things in 1.8 custom generation. I was considering writing something to do the 1.8 custom generation in 1.7, as a separate mod, but it doesn't look like I'll have a chance anytime soon.
Climate Control- Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
Underground Biomes Constructs - 24 different kinds of stone, with complete sets of stairs, slabs, walls, and buttons.
ExplorerCraft - map utilities for tiling, carrying, and marking maps.
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Curse PremiumClimate Control- Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
Underground Biomes Constructs - 24 different kinds of stone, with complete sets of stairs, slabs, walls, and buttons.
ExplorerCraft - map utilities for tiling, carrying, and marking maps.
Thanks! I shall review and see what I may have wrong. As long as I can usually get a base idea, I can extrapolate to the rest, so this will help a lot.
Oh, one thing - if I start a vanilla world (new) and have the config in my config folder to B:HighlandsBiomesOn=true, I do NOT have to select "Highlands" and a world gen option, right? It will just import then in vanilla... right? (I just want to be sure we create a proper world with the biomes we want!)
Would it help - even though you don't have it ready yet - to make CC be a world gen option, and then it would have some kind of interface window/screen/form you would go through to make the setting as you wish? Not sure how that would all work but i think you get the idea. Not sure how that would work in a server tho... guess I just have the ideas and none of the execution... I must be in management!
So, as I understand this, then, basically what I/we can do with this mod is make it so ~1000 blocks there is a chance of "sensible" transition from normal to hot or normal to wet or normal to cold, etc. etc. And the various setting allows us to control the range it happens and how big of a change it is. It also makes it so when to do switch biomes for any reason, there is less of a "sheer" to the chunk and the transition attempts to make more sense, rather than going from plains to extreme hills having this sudden and abrupt ride in the land, its more "gradual" so geologically makes sense (as best as MC can do).
Now I know I don't know all the setting but that is basically it, right? (I have spent a lot of time in the sun lately so I think my brain is fried so please understand my lack of the basics here...)
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Curse PremiumThat's correct. CC works on the base world types - default, amplified, and large biomes. It overules the biome settings, so a "large biomes" world is actually the same as default (but you can set your world to either biome size, and several other besides. Amplified is still amplified.
I was planning to have control screens. There are ways to get buttons on the screen without resorting to a separate world type. The world type business is a terrible kludge and I'm trying to avoid it.
Yes, that's the overview. Locking by biome only means CC doesn't switch until all the biomes it thinks are on your current map are complete, then it moves to the next biome and put in the one that should be there by your new settings. Locking by sub-biome does the same, but with sub-biomes. The #s are for control; but I found playing around with biome settings that 3 was basically a standard. Smaller numbers for the biome locking increase the boundary for no benefit. Larger numbers have no effect, because I had to put some limits in the internal operations. I was expecting a trade-off where larger numbers would give you narrower and narrower transitions with increasing chances of chunk walls but it didn't work that way. 3 was fine, but when I went up to 4 it was chunk walls everywhere. I left it configurable because I suspect it may have to go up with large view distances (but maybe not; that's what playtesting is for).
I haven't tested increase the sub-biome number; you might well be able to have a larger number and thus a small transition zone without chunk boundaries.
Generally speaking, you can have almost any biome next to almost any other biome in Minecraft, so with biome locking on, the changes always look "Minecrafty". Sub-biomes, OTOH, have lots of rules (e.g. Forest hills is only supposed to happen next to Forest) so if you have sub-biome locking but not biome you'll see lots of shifts that make you say "hey, that looks weird". The price for the narrower transition zones. If you lock biomes you may as well lock sub-biomes to prevent limited chunk walls from sub-biome shifts.
Climate locking doesn't stop the chunk walls; it just means when a switch to a new biome occurs, it will be a "legitimate" boundary. I haven't tested it, but 3 is probably a standard there too. It seems to be small enough to stop bad transitions, but a higher number will probably have no effect.
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Curse PremiumThere's instructions in the spoilers on the OP. But tell me what you want to do, and I can probably tell you how to do it.
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Curse PremiumNo, it isn't. It changes how the "normal" worlds (Default, Amplified, and Large Biomes) generate. Each biome is pretty similar to what it looks like in vanilla, but the arrangement of the biomes is different (and configurable). If you're just using the defaults, there will be more ocean than in 1.7 but less than in 1.6. The world will have land masses in an ocean rather than lakes in a continent like 1.7. Land masses vary a lot in size; but they're generally much smaller than in 1.6 (and especially 1.7, where they're infinite). Some will fit comfortably onto a single maxed-out map (the smallest I ever saw in 1.6 would have taken twelve). You'll still have climate zones, but they'll be half the size they are in 1.7. Jungle, MegaTaiga, and Mesa are unclustered and much easier to find. Coastlines are smoother, and there are a lot fewer lakes just inland from oceans.
Just looking around at spawn nothing will look unusual. If you've travelled multiple maps in vanilla and then do the same in a CC world, you'll probably start seeing the differences. Sometimes it's not so noticeable because it's more like people "expect" worlds to be; you'll notice it more if you switch back to vanilla (that's how I felt about the coastlines).
The big features of CC are that you can *change* your world to get something you like. You can have a world of medium islands smaller than a maxed-out map, or giant 1.6-style continents, or something in between, or a mix. You can have great big climate zones like 1.7, smaller ones like in 1.6 (that's the default); even smaller ones that are usually only a few biomes, or none at all with all the biomes mixed together. You can make any biome as common or as rare as you like. Don't like swamps? Set Swampland_Incidence=0 and you'll never see one ever. Love swamps? Set Swampland_Incidence = 1000 and random_biomes=true and you'll rarely see anything else. You can mix in Highlands, BoP, or Thaumcraft biomes in almost any combo.
Most significantly, you can change an *existing* world and you won't see chunk walls. So if you've started a vanilla 1.7 world and want to have a real ocean, you convert to CC and after a while your initial explorations will end up a continent surrounded by ocean, but without chunk walls. You do have to follow a 2-step transition to make that part work.
Climate Control- Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
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Curse PremiumIf you just hang around spawn, you won't notice, unless you've made some huge change to the incidences. If you travel, you'll notice. Here's some examples, using "Neko" for the seed:
This is the 2Kx2K area around spawn in vanilla 1.7:
Fairly typical 1.7 stuff: no ocean and almost all temperate terrain.
Here's the area near spawn in climate control 0.2 with the default settings:
You'd actually spawn near the center of the map; AMIDST is showing the spawn incorrectly. That's pretty different, but you could see that in 1.7 vanilla. You'd consider yourself very lucky to get all three climate zones on the spawn map, but it *could* happen in 1.7. So, different, probably better for most players, but not different enough you'd *know* you weren't playing vanilla.
The exact climate zones and biomes would be different in 0.4, because I changed the climate system, but you'd see something similar.
If you travel around, though, things look very different. Here's a 8Kx8K area around spawn in vanilla:
Again, pretty typical 1.7 stuff. Universal continent with large lakes.If you want to see snowy regions or jungle you're going to have to trek - it's about 4,000 blocks to the nearest snow and 5,000 blocks to the nearest jungle. If you actually want to find them on the ground without using AMIDST or something similar you'll have to search 30,000-60,000 blocks. If you want Mesa - well, tough, basically, it's even further.
At this scale CC looks very different:
You will never, ever see a map anything like that in 1.6 or 1.7 vanilla. You'll never see an ocean that big in 1.7 and you'll never see so many islands in 1.6. And, all three climate zones are close by. Now, while Mesa is nearby, jungle isn't and you'd have to search for it. Surprisingly, *searching* is much easier in default CC because you don't have to do detailed searches of the ocean areas. Usually, I find things are much closer than they'd be in 1.7, but even if something is many thousands of blocks away, as happens a lot in 1.7 vanilla, you can at least find it faster. And the killer problem with 1.7 is the searches, not the travel.
A lot of people will say "too much water!" to that map. Well, the CC defaults are designed to produce a lot of variety: oceanic areas with medium islands, giant sprawling continents, and all kinds of stuff inbetween. A bit farther off in the same seed is a giant continent:
Unlike 1.7, all climates are close to the center, and all three of the "unusual" biomes (jungle, mesa, and mega taiga) are on that map.
If you don't like ocean, you can alter the configs to have a world mostly like that. Personally, I like variety and surprises and the fact that if I explore a couple more maps to my east, I have almost no idea what it's going to look like - one island? an archipelago? a big peninsula? a giant continent? It keeps things fresh.
Yes, higher incidence means more. Here's that spawn with "Mesa Plateau"=100, "Mesa Plateau F"=400, and Desert=500, with random biome on (otherwise, no mesa/desert in temperate or snowy zones every, regardless of incidence):
90% mesa and desert, with a little bit of other stuff scattered about.
Climate Control- Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
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Curse PremiumInternally a "large island" is actually an agglomeration of roughly 16 biomes, and that's not really changeable. If you want fewer biomes per island the method would be to use a larger biome scale *and* move all your land masses to smaller sizes. So, set Large Continents to 0, Medium Continents to the old Large Continents, etc.
If your goal is just to keep the climates further away from each other, it would be possible to add some optional smoothing at a higher zoom level. Right now it smooths at the last possible step; this is because most people seem to want to have varied biomes as close as possible, and because I was avoiding the complications of having climate smoothing steps when the climates may not yet have been established. But you could smooth one step earlier with half-size zones (doubling the typical transition zone) or two steps earlier with full-size. Extreme climate zones do become less common with earlier smoothing but with the new climate system it's tolerable.
Thanks, that's great! Could you send me (or Github) the source code? At some point in the relatively near future I want to convert this to use the 0.4 terrain systems.
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Curse PremiumClimates will shift from the old system to the new one as you explore out; the primary effect is that there are more extreme climates inlands. Quartersize climates work much better now for that reason.
A comment on settings: subBiomeRingsNotSaved = 0 creates some oddly-placed subbiomes. You might want to set it to -1 before running CC 0.3. The disadvantage of this is that you'll get chunk walls on incompletely generated offshore islands. It might be possible to fix both problems by setting subBiomeRingsNotSaved=3 but I don't have time to test it.
I've posted an account of actually updating a large CC 0.2 world to CC 0.4 on my Hardcore Exploration Journal. See Episode 20 on the second page. You folks won't have to deal with the import bugs, of course, because they've been fixed.
I have also put out a new version of the beta, as I discovered it was not using the right multiplier when adjusting chunk coordinates for importing vanilla worlds.
Climate Control- Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
Underground Biomes Constructs - 24 different kinds of stone, with complete sets of stairs, slabs, walls, and buttons.
ExplorerCraft - map utilities for tiling, carrying, and marking maps.
"Look at me still talking when there's science to do. When I look out there it makes me glad I'm not you."
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Curse PremiumNot offhand. Can you send your config folders, world-specific config, and (if reasonable) world folders to me, via email or dropbox? It's only the sub-biome that has problems, right? Otherwise you're seeing smooth transitions?
I have seen very occasional bad borders - actually a total of 3 in one world, and that's it. They were near ocean and probably involved some change to the biome detailing procedure. They were all low-profile and not really a big deal, not one a big mountain relief like you have.
Climate Control- Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
Underground Biomes Constructs - 24 different kinds of stone, with complete sets of stairs, slabs, walls, and buttons.
ExplorerCraft - map utilities for tiling, carrying, and marking maps.
I wouldn't mind, though I don't know any of your contact info so I couldn't send you the world folder. Since that world is my main one and travel to unexplored areas takes some time, once I saw that issue I decided not to explore any more until it was resolved. I'll have a look around and report in. Also, your AMIDST download link appears to be broken.
Main config:
# Configuration file
####################
# assorted parameters
####################
"assorted parameters" {
# place little islands near shore rather than in deep ocean
B:"Allow Derpy Islands"=false
# Biome size, exponential: 4 is regular and 6 is large biomes
I:"Biome Size"=4
B:BoPBiomesOn=false
B:HighlandsBiomesOn=false
# per thousand; vanilla is 10
I:"Mushroom Island Incidence"=10
# generate as if CC weren't on; for loading pre-existing worlds or just preventing chunk boundaries
B:"No Generation Changes"=false
# Percentage of rivers prevented; changes cause chunk boundaries at some rivers
I:PercentRiverReduction=0
# increase smoothing steps; also shrinks unusual biomes some; changing produces occaisional chunk walls
B:"Smoother Coastlines"=true
B:ThaumcraftBiomesOn=false
# Include vanilla biomes in world
B:VanillaBiomesOn=true
# Generate land masses and climate zones similar to vanilla 1.7
B:VanillaLandAndClimate=false
# biomes not saved on edges; more than 3 has no effect; -1 deactivates saving biomes
I:biomeRingsNotSaved=3
# climate not saved on edges; more than 3 has no effect; -1 deactivates saving climates
I:climateRingsNotSaved=3
# subbiomes not saved on edges, default -1, -1 deactivates saving sub-biomes
I:subBiomeRingsNotSaved=0
}
####################
# biomefrequencies
####################
biomefrequencies {
I:"Birch Forest"=10
I:"Cold Taiga"=10
I:Desert=30
I:"Extreme Hills"=20
I:Forest=20
I:"Ice Plains"=30
I:Jungle=5
I:"Mega Taiga"=5
I:"Mesa Plateau"=1
I:"Mesa Plateau F"=4
I:Plains=30
I:"Roofed Forest"=10
I:Savanna=20
I:Swampland=10
I:"Taiga (snowless)"=10
}
####################
# climate incidences
####################
"climate incidences" {
# relative incidence of cool zones like forest/plains/hills/taiga/roofed forest
I:"Cool Zone Incidence"=1
# relative incidence of hot zones like savanna/desert/plains/mesa
I:"Hot Zone Incidence"=1
# relative incidence of snowy zones
I:"Snowy Zone Incidence"=1
# relative incidence of warm zones like forest/plains/hills/jungle/swamp
I:"Warm Zone Incidence"=1
}
####################
# climate zone parameters
####################
"climate zone parameters" {
# half the climate zone size from vanilla, unless quartering
B:"Half Zone Size"=true
# quarter the climate zone size from vanilla
B:"Quarter Zone Size"=false
# ignore climate zones altogether
B:"Random Biomes"=false
}
####################
# ocean control parameters
####################
"ocean control parameters" {
# frequency of large continent seeds, about 8000x16000
I:"Large Continent Frequency"=8
# frequency of large island seeds, about 1000x2000
I:"Large Island Frequency"=30
# frequency of medium continent seeds, about 4000x8000
I:"Medium Continent Frequency"=11
# frequency of medium island seeds, about 500x1000
I:"Medium Island Frequency"=30
# frequency of small continent seeds, about 2000x4000
I:"Small Continent Frequency"=16
}
####################
# vanillabiomeids
####################
vanillabiomeids {
I:"Birch Forest Hills ID"=28
I:"Birch Forest Hills M ID"=156
I:"Birch Forest ID"=27
I:"Birch Forest M ID"=155
I:"Cold Taiga Hills ID"=31
I:"Cold Taiga ID"=30
I:"Cold Taiga M ID"=158
I:"Desert Hills ID"=17
I:"Desert ID"=2
I:"Desert M ID"=130
I:"Extreme Hills ID"=3
I:"Extreme Hills M ID"=131
I:"Extreme Hills+ ID"=34
I:"Extreme Hills+ M ID"=162
I:"Flower Forest ID"=132
I:"Forest Hills ID"=18
I:"Forest ID"=4
I:"Ice Mountains ID"=13
I:"Ice Plains ID"=12
I:"Ice Plains Spikes ID"=140
I:"Jungle Hills ID"=21
I:"Jungle ID"=21
I:"Jungle M ID"=149
I:"Mega Spruce Taiga ID"=160
I:"Mega Taiga Hills ID"=33
I:"Mega Taiga ID"=32
I:"Mesa (Bryce) ID"=165
I:"Mesa ID"=37
I:"Mesa Plateau F ID"=38
I:"Mesa Plateau F M ID"=166
I:"Mesa Plateau ID"=39
I:"Mesa Plateau M ID"=167
I:"Mushroom Island ID"=14
I:"Plains ID"=1
I:"Roofed Forest ID"=29
I:"Roofed Forest M ID"=157
I:"Savanna ID"=35
I:"Savanna M ID"=163
I:"Savanna Plateau ID"=36
I:"Savanna Plateau M ID"=164
I:"Sunflower Plains ID"=129
I:"Swampland ID"=6
I:"Swampland M ID"=134
I:"Taiga (snowless) ID"=5
I:"Taiga (snowless) M ID"=133
I:"Taiga Hills ID"=19
}
####################
# vanillabiomeincidences
####################
vanillabiomeincidences {
I:"Birch Forest Incidence"=10
I:"Cold Taiga Incidence"=10
I:"Desert Incidence"=30
I:"Extreme Hills Incidence"=20
I:"Forest Incidence"=20
I:"Ice Plains Incidence"=30
I:"Jungle Incidence"=5
I:"Mega Taiga Incidence"=5
I:"Mesa Plateau F Incidence"=4
I:"Mesa Plateau Incidence"=1
I:"Plains Incidence"=30
I:"Roofed Forest Incidence"=10
I:"Savanna Incidence"=20
I:"Swampland Incidence"=10
I:"Taiga (snowless) Incidence"=10
}
# Configuration file
####################
# assorted parameters
####################
"assorted parameters" {
# place little islands near shore rather than in deep ocean
B:"Allow Derpy Islands"=false
# Biome size, exponential: 4 is regular and 6 is large biomes
I:"Biome Size"=4
B:BoPBiomesOn=false
B:HighlandsBiomesOn=false
# per thousand; vanilla is 10
I:"Mushroom Island Incidence"=10
# generate as if CC weren't on; for loading pre-existing worlds or just preventing chunk boundaries
B:"No Generation Changes"=false
# Percentage of rivers prevented; changes cause chunk boundaries at some rivers
I:PercentRiverReduction=0
# increase smoothing steps; also shrinks unusual biomes some; changing produces occaisional chunk walls
B:"Smoother Coastlines"=true
B:ThaumcraftBiomesOn=false
# Include vanilla biomes in world
B:VanillaBiomesOn=true
# Generate land masses and climate zones similar to vanilla 1.7
B:VanillaLandAndClimate=false
# biomes not saved on edges; more than 3 has no effect; -1 deactivates saving biomes
I:biomeRingsNotSaved=3
# climate not saved on edges; more than 3 has no effect; -1 deactivates saving climates
I:climateRingsNotSaved=3
# subbiomes not saved on edges, default -1, -1 deactivates saving sub-biomes
I:subBiomeRingsNotSaved=0
}
####################
# climate incidences
####################
"climate incidences" {
# relative incidence of cool zones like forest/plains/hills/taiga/roofed forest
I:"Cool Zone Incidence"=1
# relative incidence of hot zones like savanna/desert/plains/mesa
I:"Hot Zone Incidence"=1
# relative incidence of snowy zones
I:"Snowy Zone Incidence"=1
# relative incidence of warm zones like forest/plains/hills/jungle/swamp
I:"Warm Zone Incidence"=1
}
####################
# climate zone parameters
####################
"climate zone parameters" {
# half the climate zone size from vanilla, unless quartering
B:"Half Zone Size"=true
# quarter the climate zone size from vanilla
B:"Quarter Zone Size"=false
# ignore climate zones altogether
B:"Random Biomes"=false
}
####################
# ocean control parameters
####################
"ocean control parameters" {
# frequency of large continent seeds, about 8000x16000
I:"Large Continent Frequency"=8
# frequency of large island seeds, about 1000x2000
I:"Large Island Frequency"=30
# frequency of medium continent seeds, about 4000x8000
I:"Medium Continent Frequency"=11
# frequency of medium island seeds, about 500x1000
I:"Medium Island Frequency"=30
# frequency of small continent seeds, about 2000x4000
I:"Small Continent Frequency"=16
}
####################
# vanillabiomeids
####################
vanillabiomeids {
I:"Birch Forest Hills ID"=28
I:"Birch Forest Hills M ID"=156
I:"Birch Forest ID"=27
I:"Birch Forest M ID"=155
I:"Cold Taiga Hills ID"=31
I:"Cold Taiga ID"=30
I:"Cold Taiga M ID"=158
I:"Desert Hills ID"=17
I:"Desert ID"=2
I:"Desert M ID"=130
I:"Extreme Hills ID"=3
I:"Extreme Hills M ID"=131
I:"Extreme Hills+ ID"=34
I:"Extreme Hills+ M ID"=162
I:"Flower Forest ID"=132
I:"Forest Hills ID"=18
I:"Forest ID"=4
I:"Ice Mountains ID"=13
I:"Ice Plains ID"=12
I:"Ice Plains Spikes ID"=140
I:"Jungle Hills ID"=21
I:"Jungle ID"=21
I:"Jungle M ID"=149
I:"Mega Spruce Taiga ID"=160
I:"Mega Taiga Hills ID"=33
I:"Mega Taiga ID"=32
I:"Mesa (Bryce) ID"=165
I:"Mesa ID"=37
I:"Mesa Plateau F ID"=38
I:"Mesa Plateau F M ID"=166
I:"Mesa Plateau ID"=39
I:"Mesa Plateau M ID"=167
I:"Mushroom Island ID"=14
I:"Plains ID"=1
I:"Roofed Forest ID"=29
I:"Roofed Forest M ID"=157
I:"Savanna ID"=35
I:"Savanna M ID"=163
I:"Savanna Plateau ID"=36
I:"Savanna Plateau M ID"=164
I:"Sunflower Plains ID"=129
I:"Swampland ID"=6
I:"Swampland M ID"=134
I:"Taiga (snowless) ID"=5
I:"Taiga (snowless) M ID"=133
I:"Taiga Hills ID"=19
}
####################
# vanillabiomeincidences
####################
vanillabiomeincidences {
I:"Birch Forest Incidence"=10
I:"Cold Taiga Incidence"=10
I:"Desert Incidence"=30
I:"Extreme Hills Incidence"=20
I:"Forest Incidence"=20
I:"Ice Plains Incidence"=30
I:"Jungle Incidence"=5
I:"Mega Taiga Incidence"=5
I:"Mesa Plateau F Incidence"=4
I:"Mesa Plateau Incidence"=1
I:"Plains Incidence"=30
I:"Roofed Forest Incidence"=10
I:"Savanna Incidence"=20
I:"Swampland Incidence"=10
I:"Taiga (snowless) Incidence"=10
}
"Look at me still talking when there's science to do. When I look out there it makes me glad I'm not you."
I have read your exchange with Seridor and I'm also looking for large islands (maybe 2k per 2k or 3k per 2k) with one or two biomes on each isle.
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Curse PremiumI don't see anything wonky in the configs. My email is in my profile, although the world folder may be too big. Do you have Dropbox or something like it? It's pretty easy to set up, and that would world fine.
Mojang isn't going to want to change the biome locating code that CC works with, so it will *probably* be compatible with 1.8 shortly after Forge comes out for 1.8. Forge, however, might take a long while. It took almost 5 months to get a version of Forge I was comfortable working with after 1.7 came out, and 1.8 looks to have even more changes.
As it stands, the best you can do is to increase the biome size to 5, and the medium islands will then be the size of large islands but continue to have 1-4 biomes each.
Climate Control- Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
Underground Biomes Constructs - 24 different kinds of stone, with complete sets of stairs, slabs, walls, and buttons.
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Curse PremiumClimate Control- Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
Underground Biomes Constructs - 24 different kinds of stone, with complete sets of stairs, slabs, walls, and buttons.
ExplorerCraft - map utilities for tiling, carrying, and marking maps.