good lord in heaven, my floor is basically made of candles and skulls at this point and it stills goes from stable to unstable in and instant. the only thing i can actually make are things with a negligible rating.
It's looking like we need stabilizers to make anything significant. Is it possible to hook up more than one generator to a stabilizer? And if so, how?
I don't believe you can do so directly, but they are just FE generators, and Azanor has said that the stabilizers can make use of much more FE/RF than the generators output, if you have another means of generation in your pack.
I don't believe you can do so directly, but they are just FE generators, and Azanor has said that the stabilizers can make use of much more FE/RF than the generators output, if you have another means of generation in your pack.
It seems odd that Thaumcraft would basically encourage you to use other mods to use its content.
Wow. After testing on Creative, it does look prohibitively hard to do infusion thus far. Even with five stabilizers and a candle room underneath, a Moderate infusion starting from 'Very Stable' ends up at 'Dangerously Unstable' within seconds.
Even Minor infusions don't come off without items getting knocked off of pedestals.
Yeah, that's why I was asking about additional methods to stabilize infusions yesterday. It's manageable, barely, if you have additional essentia and materials, but it pretty much forces you to have doubles or triples of every ingredient handy. And you'll need to clean up flux and flux goo afterwards.
I also tried it using Mana Fluxfields from Botania. I don't know how much FE they put out when used with a cheat-pool of infinite mana, but it's evidently more than a Vis Generator - things are a little better. But even with five of those, making a Thaumium Fortress Helm doesn't come off without incident. It gets Dangerously Unstable before the end.
In the old days of, say, Thaumcraft 4, the sheer number of candles you'd need to do big infusions was intimidating... but at least you knew what to do. Here, I just don't know. Probably there's new functionality coming down the pike, but I want my Fortress Armor now, darn it!
To be honest, I like to have a cap on candles. I prefer to have the altar look more natural with a few items around, instead of having to spam candles or skulls to game the system. It's also nice to have infusions go unstable, adds a bit more chaos and tension to the process. It just goes south way too early imho, especially if the Thaumonomicon only lists as "Moderate". Balancing around the infusion going unstable at the end would be best, I think. There's still the possibility of incidents, but at least not starting halfway through. Also, although I'm hardly ever without some tech mods, I'd generally prefer if players in general didn't need to use other mods to boost stabilizers. Maybe adding an "arcane conduit" (i.e., a cable) to add more vis generators to a stabilizer would be a good idea.
Of course, if there actually is a new mechanic incoming, I'd be hyped to try it out.^^
There's no more candle spam as of about 12 hours ago, actually. While there wasn't *supposed* to be for several betas, a bug prevented the Matrix from actually capping them.
Right back at ya, AnrDaemon. I know, that's why I said I like it, and said a few pages ago that I didn't want to spam candles, even though (thanks to the bug) it would've helped me. Reading is hard.
But, to actual post content:
I installed a very basic setup for the new Flux Condenser, and had some problems getting it to work. Turned out that the Flux Condenser has 64 suction, so given there needs to be at least one tube between any jars and it, it can't draw essentia from labeled jars. Just putting it out here in case someone else has this problem. Took me a while to find. I'll also suggest increasing suction a bit on the github. I'm also pleased with all the vitium essentia it puts out. (The Thaumonomicon calls it "Flux Essentia", and I got excited about a new type, but it's just Vitium.)
The new Flux Condenser is indeed pretty cool. The ideal shape for it is going to be some sort of space-filling fractal that I haven't worked out yet, which is awesome! It looks nice, too - a mad-science antenna farm.
I also like that you can replace the filters without taking it apart. Seems way too hard to automate with golems, though, unless you want to throw out Use seals like candy.
But it does need tweaking. Currently you're either going to want just one filter; or, if you're desperate, a lot of them. There's no real benefit to having, say, five.
But wow, does that thing go! I created a huge flux spike by overflowing a crucible, and you can watch it melt on the dioptra. With enough filters it was draining a point of flux every quarter-second - at a cost of 40 essentia per point! Generating that much essentia would definitely be a challenge in survival.
Did replacing filters work for you? So far, I only had one clogged filter, but then I couldn't replace it. Clicking with a new filter just placed it down, and I had to mine the clogged filter to replace it.
I didn't do much testing yet, but so far I'm using 12 filters in a 3x4 shape for redundancy. I'm at 25 seconds / 13 essentia per point of Flux.
Did replacing filters work for you? So far, I only had one clogged filter, but then I couldn't replace it. Clicking with a new filter just placed it down, and I had to mine the clogged filter to replace it.
I didn't do much testing yet, but so far I'm using 12 filters in a 3x4 shape for redundancy. I'm at 25 seconds / 13 essentia per point of Flux.
You don't use a new condenser filter, but a new... I can't think of the term, and I'm not able to bring up Thaumcraft right now. It's one of the early alchemy parts, called a "something" filter. It's crafted using a silverwood plank and two gold ingots. It's one of the crafting ingredients in the condenser filter.
[EDIT: It's an "essentia filter". And the little cubes you add to the condenser are strictly called the "lattice pieces".]
You right-click on the purple condenser filter with that part in your hand and it turns white again. Once I had a Vitium crystal pop out too!
The 3x4 shape is really going to hurt your efficiency, but it's certainly redundant.
Having done more research with the Flux Condenser, I have found:
* The minimum time to condense a point of flux is 5 ticks, or 0.25 seconds.
* The minimum amount of lattice pieces you need to reach that is 57, at 24 essentia per point of flux. That's 96 essentia per second!
* Adding more pieces will do nothing except drive up the amount of essentia - it's worse than useless.
* Though, adding more pieces can at least add redundancy. The most efficient lattices are also point-failure-prone.
* There is doubtless some clever way to add lattice pieces to maximize redundancy while minimizing essentia cost, but I haven't figured it out yet.
I suspect that the amount of distilling you'd have to do to get 96 essentia for each second of operation will be producing more flux than you'd be removing! But it could be spread out over many chunks, at least.
EDIT: Upon further reflection, I think unless you're doing huge automation setups, one lattice piece should suffice. Burn a bunch of stuff, put the waste essentia on the flux condenser, and just allow time for the flux to be reduced. Go on a mining trip or something - though not so far as to let the chunk unload. Every 29 seconds a point of flux will turn into a point of Vitium in your jar. After a Minecraft day, that's 41 flux! And a little over a jar and a half of essentia used.
You'd think that adding a few more lattice pieces for redundancy would help, but I'm inclined to doubt it's worth it. I suspect each lattice piece has a fixed chance per tick of burning out - and if the central one goes out, the whole lattice goes down. So adding more pieces isn't really contributing much to up-time, and it's costing you more essentia.
The only reason why you'd need a big condenser lattice is if you're producing large amounts of flux on a continuous basis.
Ah, those things. Thanks, I didn't even think of those.
I don't think it's a per-tick chance, per se, for a piece to be clogged up. My setup was sitting idle for a few hours while I was exploring, chunk-loaded, and nothing happened. Given that the one failing piece I mentioned earlier showed up in less than half an hour of purging, I'd think that show it only clogs when running, at least.
Plus, I assume (baselessly) that it would be a per-point-of-flux chance of clogging. Makes more sense to me than simply time, and would make redundant/more lattice pieces useful to distribute points of failure. Azanor is quite thoughtful of his mechanics, so that seems more likely, all in all. When I have time, I'll test it.
If you don't need the flux removed fast, yes, I assume only one lattice piece would suffice. If you need more, I guess a "two by X" shape would be enough for redundancy vs. efficiency. Aside from the first piece, two neighboring pieces would need to fail to knock out a bigger part, which is somewhat rare if you have a substantial amount of lattice. Whether it's worth it or not I don't know.
Having now thought about this quite a bit, I have some suggestions for Azanor regarding the Flux Condenser.
It's more fun for everyone if the mechanics lead us to create weird, branching, mad-science Condenser lattices. The current setup does not really do this.
Thankfully, we can take some inspiration from Real Science (TM)!
Logically speaking, the rate of flux removal should be proportional to the surface area - the number of lattice cube faces exposed to the air. While the amount of essentia used should be proportional to the volume - the number of lattice cubes used.
The surface area A of the lattice will thus depend on N (the number of cubes) and C (the total number of crosslinks formed between cubes) like so:
A = 1 + 4N - 2C
So far, so good. However, for balance reasons, I think there should be a fudge factor added on to A, so that someone who goes to the trouble of making a Condenser sees some results right from the start. Just not a whole lot.
The system is still prone to point-failure of the central node, however, which I regard as undesirable behavior. (It basically encourages people to make multiple Condensers.) So make the chance of failure depend on the number of a lattice cube's faces exposed to air. (Alternatively, have the Condenser come with a knob on top that cubes can be attached to and never burns out.)
The only trouble is, this will now encourage lattices that look like ribbed radiator fins, which I don't think is the look we're going for. I can think of a solution, but I suspect the coding will be a bit more difficult:
Change the above equation to penalize lattice cubes that are drawing from the same block of air. Basically, once one cube is drawing from a block of air, other cubes can't get anything from it, or at least not as much. Now we're going to see coiling lines, perhaps branching lung-like structures.
The easiest solution is the alternative I gave above, to basically give a central node that doesn't burn out for free. (It also helps with that fudge factor I mentioned.) That changes our equation to:
A = 5 + 4N - 2C
EDIT: Another possibility. What if there's a second kind of lattice piece, call it a structural piece. It is crafted without an essentia filter (and is probably whiter in texture) and thus doesn't contribute to the surface area... But in exchange, it never burns out. It still contributes to essentia use, though.
You'd want to use these sparingly, primarily for branching points. I'd think they would encourage branching structures. Though someone with lots of thaumium, quartz, and essentia to spare might make ribs of these with "buds" of regular pieces spaced along them.
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How do you harvest tainted blocks or fibrous taint? A rift exploded, and after I killed the taint seed (spawn? i don't remember what the thing is called), the tainted blocks just disintegrated when I tried to break them. I tried normal shovel, normal pickaxe, silk touch shovel, silk touch pickaxe. The rift closer thing needs a lot of vitium essentia, and I don't know how to get it.
in the left top corner when i hold my wand there is that thing so you can see how full the wand is
now my question is "can i move that thing to the lower left corner somehow"
Open Thaumcraft's config file and look for this:
# Set to true to have the wand dial display in the bottom left instead of the top left.
B:wand_dial_bottom=false
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Say something silly, Laugh 'til it hurts, Take a risk, Sing out loud, Rock the boat, Shake things up, Flirt with disaster, Buy something frivolous, Color outside the lines, Cause a scene, Order dessert, Make waves, Get carried away, Have a great day!
It's looking like we need stabilizers to make anything significant. Is it possible to hook up more than one generator to a stabilizer? And if so, how?
I don't believe you can do so directly, but they are just FE generators, and Azanor has said that the stabilizers can make use of much more FE/RF than the generators output, if you have another means of generation in your pack.
It seems odd that Thaumcraft would basically encourage you to use other mods to use its content.
I suspect it's more that FE was convenient to use and there's plans to introduce more powerful generators or ways to link them together.
Wow. After testing on Creative, it does look prohibitively hard to do infusion thus far. Even with five stabilizers and a candle room underneath, a Moderate infusion starting from 'Very Stable' ends up at 'Dangerously Unstable' within seconds.
Even Minor infusions don't come off without items getting knocked off of pedestals.
Yeah, that's why I was asking about additional methods to stabilize infusions yesterday. It's manageable, barely, if you have additional essentia and materials, but it pretty much forces you to have doubles or triples of every ingredient handy. And you'll need to clean up flux and flux goo afterwards.
I feel this needs a balance pass. ^^
I also tried it using Mana Fluxfields from Botania. I don't know how much FE they put out when used with a cheat-pool of infinite mana, but it's evidently more than a Vis Generator - things are a little better. But even with five of those, making a Thaumium Fortress Helm doesn't come off without incident. It gets Dangerously Unstable before the end.
In the old days of, say, Thaumcraft 4, the sheer number of candles you'd need to do big infusions was intimidating... but at least you knew what to do. Here, I just don't know. Probably there's new functionality coming down the pike, but I want my Fortress Armor now, darn it!
To be honest, I like to have a cap on candles. I prefer to have the altar look more natural with a few items around, instead of having to spam candles or skulls to game the system. It's also nice to have infusions go unstable, adds a bit more chaos and tension to the process. It just goes south way too early imho, especially if the Thaumonomicon only lists as "Moderate". Balancing around the infusion going unstable at the end would be best, I think. There's still the possibility of incidents, but at least not starting halfway through. Also, although I'm hardly ever without some tech mods, I'd generally prefer if players in general didn't need to use other mods to boost stabilizers. Maybe adding an "arcane conduit" (i.e., a cable) to add more vis generators to a stabilizer would be a good idea.
Of course, if there actually is a new mechanic incoming, I'd be hyped to try it out.^^
Did you read the thread or just came to wave your posting skills? There's no more candle spam for several betas now.
There's no more candle spam as of about 12 hours ago, actually. While there wasn't *supposed* to be for several betas, a bug prevented the Matrix from actually capping them.
Right back at ya, AnrDaemon. I know, that's why I said I like it, and said a few pages ago that I didn't want to spam candles, even though (thanks to the bug) it would've helped me. Reading is hard.
But, to actual post content:
I installed a very basic setup for the new Flux Condenser, and had some problems getting it to work. Turned out that the Flux Condenser has 64 suction, so given there needs to be at least one tube between any jars and it, it can't draw essentia from labeled jars. Just putting it out here in case someone else has this problem. Took me a while to find. I'll also suggest increasing suction a bit on the github. I'm also pleased with all the vitium essentia it puts out. (The Thaumonomicon calls it "Flux Essentia", and I got excited about a new type, but it's just Vitium.)
The new Flux Condenser is indeed pretty cool. The ideal shape for it is going to be some sort of space-filling fractal that I haven't worked out yet, which is awesome! It looks nice, too - a mad-science antenna farm.
I also like that you can replace the filters without taking it apart. Seems way too hard to automate with golems, though, unless you want to throw out Use seals like candy.
But it does need tweaking. Currently you're either going to want just one filter; or, if you're desperate, a lot of them. There's no real benefit to having, say, five.
But wow, does that thing go! I created a huge flux spike by overflowing a crucible, and you can watch it melt on the dioptra. With enough filters it was draining a point of flux every quarter-second - at a cost of 40 essentia per point! Generating that much essentia would definitely be a challenge in survival.
Did replacing filters work for you? So far, I only had one clogged filter, but then I couldn't replace it. Clicking with a new filter just placed it down, and I had to mine the clogged filter to replace it.
I didn't do much testing yet, but so far I'm using 12 filters in a 3x4 shape for redundancy. I'm at 25 seconds / 13 essentia per point of Flux.
You don't use a new condenser filter, but a new... I can't think of the term, and I'm not able to bring up Thaumcraft right now. It's one of the early alchemy parts, called a "something" filter. It's crafted using a silverwood plank and two gold ingots. It's one of the crafting ingredients in the condenser filter.
[EDIT: It's an "essentia filter". And the little cubes you add to the condenser are strictly called the "lattice pieces".]
You right-click on the purple condenser filter with that part in your hand and it turns white again. Once I had a Vitium crystal pop out too!
The 3x4 shape is really going to hurt your efficiency, but it's certainly redundant.
Having done more research with the Flux Condenser, I have found:
* The minimum time to condense a point of flux is 5 ticks, or 0.25 seconds.
* The minimum amount of lattice pieces you need to reach that is 57, at 24 essentia per point of flux. That's 96 essentia per second!
* Adding more pieces will do nothing except drive up the amount of essentia - it's worse than useless.
* Though, adding more pieces can at least add redundancy. The most efficient lattices are also point-failure-prone.
* There is doubtless some clever way to add lattice pieces to maximize redundancy while minimizing essentia cost, but I haven't figured it out yet.
I suspect that the amount of distilling you'd have to do to get 96 essentia for each second of operation will be producing more flux than you'd be removing! But it could be spread out over many chunks, at least.
EDIT: Upon further reflection, I think unless you're doing huge automation setups, one lattice piece should suffice. Burn a bunch of stuff, put the waste essentia on the flux condenser, and just allow time for the flux to be reduced. Go on a mining trip or something - though not so far as to let the chunk unload. Every 29 seconds a point of flux will turn into a point of Vitium in your jar. After a Minecraft day, that's 41 flux! And a little over a jar and a half of essentia used.
You'd think that adding a few more lattice pieces for redundancy would help, but I'm inclined to doubt it's worth it. I suspect each lattice piece has a fixed chance per tick of burning out - and if the central one goes out, the whole lattice goes down. So adding more pieces isn't really contributing much to up-time, and it's costing you more essentia.
The only reason why you'd need a big condenser lattice is if you're producing large amounts of flux on a continuous basis.
Nice work! I'll be sure to keep that in mind with my steadily growing flux lol
-Michael Scott
Ah, those things. Thanks, I didn't even think of those.
I don't think it's a per-tick chance, per se, for a piece to be clogged up. My setup was sitting idle for a few hours while I was exploring, chunk-loaded, and nothing happened. Given that the one failing piece I mentioned earlier showed up in less than half an hour of purging, I'd think that show it only clogs when running, at least.
Plus, I assume (baselessly) that it would be a per-point-of-flux chance of clogging. Makes more sense to me than simply time, and would make redundant/more lattice pieces useful to distribute points of failure. Azanor is quite thoughtful of his mechanics, so that seems more likely, all in all. When I have time, I'll test it.
If you don't need the flux removed fast, yes, I assume only one lattice piece would suffice. If you need more, I guess a "two by X" shape would be enough for redundancy vs. efficiency. Aside from the first piece, two neighboring pieces would need to fail to knock out a bigger part, which is somewhat rare if you have a substantial amount of lattice. Whether it's worth it or not I don't know.
Having now thought about this quite a bit, I have some suggestions for Azanor regarding the Flux Condenser.
It's more fun for everyone if the mechanics lead us to create weird, branching, mad-science Condenser lattices. The current setup does not really do this.
Thankfully, we can take some inspiration from Real Science (TM)!
Logically speaking, the rate of flux removal should be proportional to the surface area - the number of lattice cube faces exposed to the air. While the amount of essentia used should be proportional to the volume - the number of lattice cubes used.
The surface area A of the lattice will thus depend on N (the number of cubes) and C (the total number of crosslinks formed between cubes) like so:
A = 1 + 4N - 2C
So far, so good. However, for balance reasons, I think there should be a fudge factor added on to A, so that someone who goes to the trouble of making a Condenser sees some results right from the start. Just not a whole lot.
The system is still prone to point-failure of the central node, however, which I regard as undesirable behavior. (It basically encourages people to make multiple Condensers.) So make the chance of failure depend on the number of a lattice cube's faces exposed to air. (Alternatively, have the Condenser come with a knob on top that cubes can be attached to and never burns out.)
The only trouble is, this will now encourage lattices that look like ribbed radiator fins, which I don't think is the look we're going for. I can think of a solution, but I suspect the coding will be a bit more difficult:
Change the above equation to penalize lattice cubes that are drawing from the same block of air. Basically, once one cube is drawing from a block of air, other cubes can't get anything from it, or at least not as much. Now we're going to see coiling lines, perhaps branching lung-like structures.
The easiest solution is the alternative I gave above, to basically give a central node that doesn't burn out for free. (It also helps with that fudge factor I mentioned.) That changes our equation to:
A = 5 + 4N - 2C
EDIT: Another possibility. What if there's a second kind of lattice piece, call it a structural piece. It is crafted without an essentia filter (and is probably whiter in texture) and thus doesn't contribute to the surface area... But in exchange, it never burns out. It still contributes to essentia use, though.
You'd want to use these sparingly, primarily for branching points. I'd think they would encourage branching structures. Though someone with lots of thaumium, quartz, and essentia to spare might make ribs of these with "buds" of regular pieces spaced along them.
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Curse PremiumHow do you harvest tainted blocks or fibrous taint? A rift exploded, and after I killed the taint seed (spawn? i don't remember what the thing is called), the tainted blocks just disintegrated when I tried to break them. I tried normal shovel, normal pickaxe, silk touch shovel, silk touch pickaxe. The rift closer thing needs a lot of vitium essentia, and I don't know how to get it.
Thaumcraft 5 Research Helper
Open Thaumcraft's config file and look for this:
# Set to true to have the wand dial display in the bottom left instead of the top left.
B:wand_dial_bottom=false