@Azanor Perhaps we replace the golems with spells? Could set up a chopping spell around an area of trees which chops them when activated, you then set up an overlapping teleport spell which teleports the wood to above a hungry chest. This way you avoid having entities completely, all you'd need is a sort of arcane redstone system. All these could be powered using vis. Could have it work like a foci block that takes a redstone signal, and then make the relevant focis craftable. Would be a shame losing golems but think this would be a thematically fitting way of solving the issues you're having.
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@majestyc2k1 so did you get it working?!? I got the same error as @Pixel_Breaker and Yes, I used the debf version. MDK+BaublesDeobf+ThaumcraftDeobf only.
I was trying this with IntelliJ, updating my last env. (I really can't work with Eclipse; the default fix for Eclipse problems i "restart", i.e. it's broken to the core.)
I thought the problem was with MDK versions, as the clamp() method in MC does not exist, rather there's clamp_int(), clamp_double() etc.
So... you have to kill or catch a wisp in order to "tame" it? Sounds... brutal.
I think it'd fit more if you have to create wisps through alchemy, somehow.
Killing wisps and making them your slaves... that doesn't sound Thaumcraft-ish to me, anyways.
KILLING WISPS AND USING THEIR GUTS TO RESURRECT THEM AS SLAVES
C'mon. That's kinda brutal.
On the wands... I kinda like the gauntlets more. They passively recharge, which is nice. You don't need to worry about depleting and merging nodes and going back to your base to recharge them.
On the wands... I kinda like the gauntlets more. They passively recharge, which is nice. You don't need to worry about depleting and merging nodes and going back to your base to recharge them.
I enjoyed energized nodes but finding or creating a "perfect" node, was always so much of a hassle. and if you ever ran with reika's chromaticraft.. or reika mods in general things started getting insane really fast. i like this turnaround of a generalized vis type, and nodes being readded to something like that would be cool
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Who am I, you may wonder?
I am someone you know very well.
For I am every man you meet
and I am every woman you meet."
Well... if you catch a Wisp and make it your "slave" or create one through alchemy then make it your "slave", it both leads to the same result: a Wisp locked up to do your bidding as a "slave". The intelligence-level of a Wisp is however debatable, so I'd say it's more like using a farm animal.
And about Thaumcraft not being dark... have you ever realized what exactly happens if you tap into the Eldritch knowledge?
we've delved into madness, but not forcibly telling things to do ones bidding, there are different flavors of dark and i'd have to agree that "wisp slaves" doesnt feel thaumcraft to me
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Who am I, you may wonder?
I am someone you know very well.
For I am every man you meet
and I am every woman you meet."
@Azanor Are you going to make anything with the upcoming trident. I love the fact that you are back and the update aquatic is coming ut soon. hope is to see cool new elemental things with my favorite mod
1.13 isn't even out yet, let alone a stable forge version, let alone enough mods on the non-existent platform to encourage devs with bigger mods to put in the work to upgrade..... It could be the better part of a year before the community starts moving to 1.13, hell, we can't even reconcile the split across 1.7.10, 1.10.2 and 1.12.2....
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I tried both MDK versions.
I wonder if Azanor is magically using a somewhat older version of MDK that the ones for 1.10.2? My recollection is that MathUtils had a clamp() method in 1.7...
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Ok, so you understand why I think you are acting like a bit crazy over such a simple question. One to be clear I ask about an upcoming feature and his thoughts on it. Two Azanor himself said he was going to work the 1.10 version then move on to whatever is the latest version of Minecraft when he was done, so far this is looking to be 1.13 which will contain the feature that I asked about. Three even if he is not thinking about something that far into the future I think that is up to him to decide if he should tell me or anyone for that matter what is going on in his genius mind of his. to sum this up I have been around for a very long time and I know very well when modders are planning for updates or not. the question was a simple ask a yes-no or nothing from Azanor was all that was needed not you trying to come down on me because you feel upset about something that seemed to go wrong in your day
Really excited about TC6! We've been running SMP with just Thaumcraft and Baubles for a couple of weeks, using BETA6.
Do you plan on making the mod available on Github so we can use that for reporting bugs, or should we do that in the thread? Here's just a few things the other players and myself noticed:
Scanning water and lava blocks doesn't work, it has to be done with the liquid in a bucket
Alchemical Metallurgy research doesn't display the requirements, has an error-type message instead like it's missing a file. Screenshot here.
Thaumatorium does not recognize a magma block as a heat source. The crucible works fine w/ a magma block below it.
Really enjoying it so far! It's exciting to go in and not know anything, figuring it all out along the way. I do like how the new research system depends on the player actually making all of the items. It makes the progression seem more real, like you are making mistakes, trial by error, and improving designs along the way. The flavor text is great, too.
It does have the (unintended or intentional?) side effect of making the early and mid game a lot more resource-intensive on SMP than on single player. We're having to gather 3x the resources and ding the aura that much more to meet research requirements. A lot of duplicate crafted items are piling up as a result, and it's slowed down our progression a lot. I'm not sure how to reconcile this with the current research system that demands the player gain knowledge through actual effort and not just scanning items that someone else makes. TC5 was great on SMP - we were able to specialize in knowledge early on. Each person focused in a different area. It encouraged cooperative play as we covered for each others weaknesses and shared items. I'm not saying that the system currently in TC6 is bad, just that it's not quite as cooperative as TC5 and prior in SMP.
we've delved into madness, but not forcibly telling things to do ones bidding, there are different flavors of dark and i'd have to agree that "wisp slaves" doesnt feel thaumcraft to me
Thaumcraft has always been dark from the beginning, Remember when we had a mask that slowly killed whatever we looked at? Or how about the machination that extracted Vis by draining it from the living beings around it? Oh, or perhaps when we burned soulsand to extract the essence of the souls trapped within?
Going down the forbidden path, the paths Man should fear to thread, has always been a integral part of Thaumcraft.
The question is. How far are you willing to go, in the pursuit of Knowledge?
Besides, It's not like making them your slaves is worse than luring a innocent animal to your base with the promise of food, only to breed them and kill them in front of their children for their precious resources. Over, and over again.
At least the wisps would be alive, as we need them to be to do our bidding. And that's without even mentioning golems with bio-thaumic minds.
We're already in the business of enslaving living beings for convenience, Whats one more for the sake of some Science?
Don't hesitate to create your own folders using your names to add your own ideas. It will help everyone keep track of what have been suggested.
All documents can be modified by anyone, because I think that we can get to something good by thinking together.
I started thinking of a few ideas to make the research fun. First I thought of making a jewels-like game, but I couldn't find a way to make it fit with Thaumcraft.
And then I came up with an adventure card game that can use some of the work Azanor has already made on TC6.
So I give you here a summary of what it could be. You can check for further details and add your own ideas on this document.
You learn a mysterious word in the thaunomomicon (written with some kind of runic alphabet). It says you should try it on an empty map.
Put an empty map in the research table.
You are asked to chose a word to write on the map (for now, you only know one).
Click on the word.
A board appears on the map with a few stages.
At first, a lv1stage is the only accessible one. upon completion, others will become available.
Click on the first stage.
An abnormality appears as well as a deck of cards.
It as Health Points based on its level and an aspect (not shown at first).
You start with 5 turns (as you progress you will have up to 10 turns).
On the first turn, you draw 4 cards.
On each turn, you draw a new card and can use one (ink from your scribing tools and paper are needed).
Most card will deal damage to the abnormality.
You win as soon as its HP drop to 0.
If you can’t kill by the end of your last turn, flux will be released in the atmosphere and you might get negative effects.
A win will grant you 1 mini-points (1/16 point) in each unlocked category and some more based on your actions.
On higher stages abnormalities get stronger (basically more HP).
Some special stages contain stronger abnormalities that will unlock special research upon completion.
You can (or not ?) play each stage any times you want in order to level up.
Once the map is completed, you get to learn a word that will allow you to create a new map with a higher starting level.
@lovancar, I created a folder and a file, but (on mobile) I couldn't write anything.
And does no-one have any idea what that crash is about?
Oh, sorry, I haven't tried it on mobile and if you created something, I don't see it. An app might be required on mobile (yes, google drive app, I just checked).
I thought it could make a good start, as google drive is quite efficient for collaborative work. If someone knows a platform that could do the job and work on mobile too, it would be great.
In the meantime, if you want to share something before you have access to a PC, I suppose I can add anything you send me to this folder.
And if you're taking about @Goth_Cartel 's crash, I still haven't tried arcane bores, so I don't know if it's the same for everyone
As for yours, I'm not a modder and haven't been using Eclipse for a long time. Sorry. Are you still stuck with it ?
Anyway, I suppose you already have tried everything, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
Did you only import TC and baubles dependencies (no function called) ?
Have you tried without renaming anything ?
Have you tried importing any other dependency instead of TC ?
Have you tried with the beta5 file ?
Yes, I did use the Google Drive app (plus Docs when editing). I deleted them afterwards. I only imported Thaumcraft and Baubles; adding them as mods (which Forge does anyway) yielded a different, earlier crash. I renamed after importing. I have not tried with Beta 5, but I might later.
Weird.. I'll try on mobile tomorrow and see what I can do.
If you try again to create your folder and file, I can check the permissions tomorrow.
I suggested you try with something else than TC6Beta6 to check the problem comes from it. If you had a similar crash when loading JEI or anything else, the problem could be elsewhere.
That's pretty much what I can think of, but I'm afraid I don't know anything about modding. Just a little experience as a developper when I was younger.
With golems, I think it's ok to have them do what you want. I mean... the player made them. Basically just robots. ignoring the robot uprising
Let's just not call them "slaves" or say "do our bidding." Thena few of uswe can feel better about it.
Slaughtering animals isn't particularly great either, but I don't think a lot of animal-slaughtering is required for Thaumcraft recipes (as far as I know).
Going crazy because of Eldritch stuff, I don't think that leads to what I've mentioned so far.
Hey, but here's a thing:
In some religions, spiritual beings of power (aka, God, etc.) don't like Golemancy. So, if you find disobeying 'higher powers' to be dark... that counts, I guess.
Done! Wrote a fairly long on using an improved TC4 system (the BEST one), sorted itself out.
And no JEI in my modding environment.
@Goth_Cartel, this doesn't look so good.
Entity's Vehicle: ~~ERROR~~ NullPointerException: null
I'd expect it to show '[]', like the passengers one did.
Nice ideas. I too like the TC4 system.
As for your crash, you might have more luck finding appropriate help in the Modification Development section
.
Because, apart from Azanor, who is quite busy with his family and his own mods, I don't know if many people here have the knowledge required to help.
Maybe the wisps could be unlocked in the Eldritch tab, and have them be able to do different things than golems do. Making living things do your bidding seems more of an Eldritch tab thing to me.
@Lovancar
Great idea! I have some more thoughts other than my initial response. I'll try to jot them down later today in the drive. Are we just hoping Azanor will check it out at some point or are we going to try to take the best ideas from it and then post them here?
Great idea! I have some more thoughts other than my initial response. I'll try to jot them down later today in the drive. Are we just hoping Azanor will check it out at some point or are we going to try to take the best ideas from it and then post them here?
If Azanor wants to go and read what we have put in this folder, that's great. Though I don't know if he actually plans to change something to research.
But even if it's not for TC6, it might be used for another version. Can't wait to see your complete suggestion.
I think it's quite a pain to have to go look to previous pages to see all ideas that have been suggested. That's why, if anybody feels like it, I think it would be nice if we tried to gather most ideas we can find on this forum since the first TC6Beta. All we need to do is create a folder with the name of the one who had the idea and copy his/her suggestion to a new google doc file. I'll see if can do some later.
Also, after we manage to gather some precise suggestion, I'm planning to make some kind of poll, using the majority judgment method to see which ones people like the best (I think we should also include at least TC3, TC4 and TC6 original research games). Of course, it won't show Azanor which ones are easiest to make (some might not be possible at all), but he will have a more precise idea of what people think is fun. And, again, we need to keep in mind that, in the end Azanor is the only on who can decide how he wants his mod to work.
Finally, if some sentences feel hard to read and someone wants to correct grammar mistakes or write it in a more natural way, that's fine with me. As I'm French, it seems obvious that some of my sentences would sound weird to you.
Note : this collaborative work doesn't have to be restricted to the research minigame. We can add folders for other things, like the golem/wisp issue. And if Azanor, likes it, we will be able to move everything to any other platform any time he wants.
I feel like wisps would be used for simple early-game logistics, while golems would be more customize-able, more complex mid/late game choices for various automation tasks and more complex logistics.
Noooooooooooooooo, I love my golems!
@majestyc2k1 so did you get it working?!? I got the same error as @Pixel_Breaker and Yes, I used the debf version. MDK+BaublesDeobf+ThaumcraftDeobf only.
I was trying this with IntelliJ, updating my last env. (I really can't work with Eclipse; the default fix for Eclipse problems i "restart", i.e. it's broken to the core.)
I thought the problem was with MDK versions, as the clamp() method in MC does not exist, rather there's clamp_int(), clamp_double() etc.
So... you have to kill or catch a wisp in order to "tame" it? Sounds... brutal.
I think it'd fit more if you have to create wisps through alchemy, somehow.
Killing wisps and making them your slaves... that doesn't sound Thaumcraft-ish to me, anyways.
KILLING WISPS AND USING THEIR GUTS TO RESURRECT THEM AS SLAVES
C'mon. That's kinda brutal.
On the wands... I kinda like the gauntlets more. They passively recharge, which is nice. You don't need to worry about depleting and merging nodes and going back to your base to recharge them.
I enjoyed energized nodes but finding or creating a "perfect" node, was always so much of a hassle. and if you ever ran with reika's chromaticraft.. or reika mods in general things started getting insane really fast. i like this turnaround of a generalized vis type, and nodes being readded to something like that would be cool
"Who am I, you may wonder?
I am someone you know very well.
For I am every man you meet
and I am every woman you meet."
we've delved into madness, but not forcibly telling things to do ones bidding, there are different flavors of dark and i'd have to agree that "wisp slaves" doesnt feel thaumcraft to me
"Who am I, you may wonder?
I am someone you know very well.
For I am every man you meet
and I am every woman you meet."
1.13 isn't even out yet, let alone a stable forge version, let alone enough mods on the non-existent platform to encourage devs with bigger mods to put in the work to upgrade..... It could be the better part of a year before the community starts moving to 1.13, hell, we can't even reconcile the split across 1.7.10, 1.10.2 and 1.12.2....
I tried both MDK versions.
I wonder if Azanor is magically using a somewhat older version of MDK that the ones for 1.10.2? My recollection is that MathUtils had a clamp() method in 1.7...
Ok, so you understand why I think you are acting like a bit crazy over such a simple question. One to be clear I ask about an upcoming feature and his thoughts on it. Two Azanor himself said he was going to work the 1.10 version then move on to whatever is the latest version of Minecraft when he was done, so far this is looking to be 1.13 which will contain the feature that I asked about. Three even if he is not thinking about something that far into the future I think that is up to him to decide if he should tell me or anyone for that matter what is going on in his genius mind of his. to sum this up I have been around for a very long time and I know very well when modders are planning for updates or not. the question was a simple ask a yes-no or nothing from Azanor was all that was needed not you trying to come down on me because you feel upset about something that seemed to go wrong in your day
In VR with vivecraft the gauntlet is fitted on the left hand , the one for the shield ( like it was a shield ) .
Minecraft without Thaumcraft is like a pizza without cheese, tasteless !!!
Really excited about TC6! We've been running SMP with just Thaumcraft and Baubles for a couple of weeks, using BETA6.
Do you plan on making the mod available on Github so we can use that for reporting bugs, or should we do that in the thread? Here's just a few things the other players and myself noticed:
Really enjoying it so far! It's exciting to go in and not know anything, figuring it all out along the way. I do like how the new research system depends on the player actually making all of the items. It makes the progression seem more real, like you are making mistakes, trial by error, and improving designs along the way. The flavor text is great, too.
It does have the (unintended or intentional?) side effect of making the early and mid game a lot more resource-intensive on SMP than on single player. We're having to gather 3x the resources and ding the aura that much more to meet research requirements. A lot of duplicate crafted items are piling up as a result, and it's slowed down our progression a lot. I'm not sure how to reconcile this with the current research system that demands the player gain knowledge through actual effort and not just scanning items that someone else makes. TC5 was great on SMP - we were able to specialize in knowledge early on. Each person focused in a different area. It encouraged cooperative play as we covered for each others weaknesses and shared items. I'm not saying that the system currently in TC6 is bad, just that it's not quite as cooperative as TC5 and prior in SMP.
Thaumcraft has always been dark from the beginning, Remember when we had a mask that slowly killed whatever we looked at? Or how about the machination that extracted Vis by draining it from the living beings around it? Oh, or perhaps when we burned soulsand to extract the essence of the souls trapped within?
Going down the forbidden path, the paths Man should fear to thread, has always been a integral part of Thaumcraft.
The question is. How far are you willing to go, in the pursuit of Knowledge?
Besides, It's not like making them your slaves is worse than luring a innocent animal to your base with the promise of food, only to breed them and kill them in front of their children for their precious resources. Over, and over again.
At least the wisps would be alive, as we need them to be to do our bidding. And that's without even mentioning golems with bio-thaumic minds.
We're already in the business of enslaving living beings for convenience, Whats one more for the sake of some Science?
Thinking about research, I see people giving ideas to make it fun.
Maybe we need to consider the research minigame as a proper game.
The thing is, it won't be considered fun if you only play this game because you need research points.
It might be needed to consider it as an actual game. I think we could work on a collaborative thinking to bring some advanced ideas to Azanor.
In the end he will always be the one to chose how things will go, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to work on precise ideas.
To begin with, I give you here a link to a google drive folder where everyone can add ideas (any other suggestion appreciated).
Don't hesitate to create your own folders using your names to add your own ideas. It will help everyone keep track of what have been suggested.
All documents can be modified by anyone, because I think that we can get to something good by thinking together.
I started thinking of a few ideas to make the research fun. First I thought of making a jewels-like game, but I couldn't find a way to make it fit with Thaumcraft.
And then I came up with an adventure card game that can use some of the work Azanor has already made on TC6.
So I give you here a summary of what it could be. You can check for further details and add your own ideas on this document.
You learn a mysterious word in the thaunomomicon (written with some kind of runic alphabet). It says you should try it on an empty map.
Put an empty map in the research table.
You are asked to chose a word to write on the map (for now, you only know one).
Click on the word.
A board appears on the map with a few stages.
At first, a lv1 stage is the only accessible one. upon completion, others will become available.
Click on the first stage.
An abnormality appears as well as a deck of cards.
It as Health Points based on its level and an aspect (not shown at first).
You start with 5 turns (as you progress you will have up to 10 turns).
On the first turn, you draw 4 cards.
On each turn, you draw a new card and can use one (ink from your scribing tools and paper are needed).
Most card will deal damage to the abnormality.
You win as soon as its HP drop to 0.
If you can’t kill by the end of your last turn, flux will be released in the atmosphere and you might get negative effects.
A win will grant you 1 mini-points (1/16 point) in each unlocked category and some more based on your actions.
On higher stages abnormalities get stronger (basically more HP).
Some special stages contain stronger abnormalities that will unlock special research upon completion.
You can (or not ?) play each stage any times you want in order to level up.
Once the map is completed, you get to learn a word that will allow you to create a new map with a higher starting level.
Oh, sorry, I haven't tried it on mobile and if you created something, I don't see it. An app might be required on mobile (yes, google drive app, I just checked).
I thought it could make a good start, as google drive is quite efficient for collaborative work. If someone knows a platform that could do the job and work on mobile too, it would be great.
In the meantime, if you want to share something before you have access to a PC, I suppose I can add anything you send me to this folder.
And if you're taking about @Goth_Cartel 's crash, I still haven't tried arcane bores, so I don't know if it's the same for everyone
As for yours, I'm not a modder and haven't been using Eclipse for a long time. Sorry. Are you still stuck with it ?
Anyway, I suppose you already have tried everything, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
Did you only import TC and baubles dependencies (no function called) ?
Have you tried without renaming anything ?
Have you tried importing any other dependency instead of TC ?
Have you tried with the beta5 file ?
Weird.. I'll try on mobile tomorrow and see what I can do.
If you try again to create your folder and file, I can check the permissions tomorrow.
I suggested you try with something else than TC6Beta6 to check the problem comes from it. If you had a similar crash when loading JEI or anything else, the problem could be elsewhere.
That's pretty much what I can think of, but I'm afraid I don't know anything about modding. Just a little experience as a developper when I was younger.
With golems, I think it's ok to have them do what you want. I mean... the player made them. Basically just robots.
ignoring the robot uprisingLet's just not call them "slaves" or say "do our bidding." Then
a few of uswe can feel better about it.Slaughtering animals isn't particularly great either, but I don't think a lot of animal-slaughtering is required for Thaumcraft recipes (as far as I know).
Going crazy because of Eldritch stuff, I don't think that leads to what I've mentioned so far.
Hey, but here's a thing:
In some religions, spiritual beings of power (aka, God, etc.) don't like Golemancy. So, if you find disobeying 'higher powers' to be dark... that counts, I guess.
Slavery just isn't good. Doesn't sound good.
I'd ask Azanor, though.
Nice ideas. I too like the TC4 system.
As for your crash, you might have more luck finding appropriate help in the Modification Development section
.
Because, apart from Azanor, who is quite busy with his family and his own mods, I don't know if many people here have the knowledge required to help.
On the wisp vs golem thing:
Maybe the wisps could be unlocked in the Eldritch tab, and have them be able to do different things than golems do. Making living things do your bidding seems more of an Eldritch tab thing to me.
@Lovancar
Great idea! I have some more thoughts other than my initial response. I'll try to jot them down later today in the drive. Are we just hoping Azanor will check it out at some point or are we going to try to take the best ideas from it and then post them here?
If Azanor wants to go and read what we have put in this folder, that's great. Though I don't know if he actually plans to change something to research.
But even if it's not for TC6, it might be used for another version. Can't wait to see your complete suggestion.
I think it's quite a pain to have to go look to previous pages to see all ideas that have been suggested. That's why, if anybody feels like it, I think it would be nice if we tried to gather most ideas we can find on this forum since the first TC6Beta. All we need to do is create a folder with the name of the one who had the idea and copy his/her suggestion to a new google doc file. I'll see if can do some later.
Also, after we manage to gather some precise suggestion, I'm planning to make some kind of poll, using the majority judgment method to see which ones people like the best (I think we should also include at least TC3, TC4 and TC6 original research games). Of course, it won't show Azanor which ones are easiest to make (some might not be possible at all), but he will have a more precise idea of what people think is fun. And, again, we need to keep in mind that, in the end Azanor is the only on who can decide how he wants his mod to work.
Finally, if some sentences feel hard to read and someone wants to correct grammar mistakes or write it in a more natural way, that's fine with me. As I'm French, it seems obvious that some of my sentences would sound weird to you.
Note : this collaborative work doesn't have to be restricted to the research minigame. We can add folders for other things, like the golem/wisp issue. And if Azanor, likes it, we will be able to move everything to any other platform any time he wants.
I feel like wisps would be used for simple early-game logistics, while golems would be more customize-able, more complex mid/late game choices for various automation tasks and more complex logistics.
great to see you back at this mod