Hey, if they want to make that many warded blocks ...
I'm just observing that one of the complaints that has been leveled at every research scheme Azanor has come up with is "I'm on my fourth play-through and I'm bored with having to do all the research again."
I've been racking my brain trying to think of a solution for this. Suggestions are welcome
I've been racking my brain trying to think of a solution for this. Suggestions are welcome
Hmm well despite the tedium of researching more than one research note at once, and being able to just research most things from the get-go, I actually really like you can't brute force the research with just having lots of resources like most other mods, and actually have to study the mechanism.
Not sure what would be a good replacement though, maybe some sort of arcane picross...
Or maybe a way to tinker with stuff made from the previous research on the research table to discover clues to the subsequent researches by mixing it with other stuff or vis (which would allow for a wiki user to check for the exact combination, and produce clues to some other research and/or explosions/fires/flux for the players that like to experiment) and a way to tinker with thaumic stuff left behind by other thaumaturges to research they work and how to make them (or breaking them beyond repair).
to cover the complaint of having to research do per world maybe there could be an easy mode in which research tabs where unlocked instead of individual research, though it would cut out most of the research it might alleviate the complaints while at the same time still providing a sense of progression.
alternatively you could try making research persist per world similar to how psi does with spells.
I've been racking my brain trying to think of a solution for this. Suggestions are welcome
make every minigame a set puzzle, not randomly generated. maybe having slight variations (like a couple alternate versions) but nothing major. maybe with scanning things with research points allowing for more attempts or mistakes when trying to solve the minigame so that people skilled in it dont have to actually do the scanning because tbh that was not a fun aspect of TC4 on the 5th times around.
Not sure what would be a good replacement though, maybe some sort of arcane picross...
I like this idea. picross to create little pixel art of the object you are researching would be great fun, but might not fit with the theme. I like match three puzzles.
Doing research in thaumcraft has always been fun... the first couple of times. Then it was just a nuisance you wanted to go away so you could get to the fun part. Why was it boring? In my opinion, because of one thing: doing the same minigame over an over again (don't get me wrong, the mini game is awesome), for not only you had to do it to unlock the whole thaumonomicon, but you had to do it in every playthrough, should you want to play legit. How can this be solved? Via empirical observation.
So, in my suggestion, research would be done as follows:
1- You scan different items trying to understand what they are made out of (as usual, with your trusty thaumometer).
2- Then, you expand your knowledge of said aspects by gaining empirical knowledge of it, learning how kit interacts and modify the world; this is achieved by simply witnessing said interactions: you gain knowledge of terra by breaking stone or dirt, of aqua by swimming or sailing a boat, ignis by being on fire, smelting things, lux by lighting up dark places, and so on and so forth. So, every time you witness those, there's a chance you can get it (this percentage could be increased with the research mastery -obtained by researching things)-, and by having researched said aspect in previous iterations of the game - so it will get easier if you have done it's research already-). Alternatively, you can experiment with essentia (mini game) for a higher chance of discovering something, but with a chance of something going wrong (explosions, flux or warping your mind -this comes from codebreaker's suggestion-) or by using a lost research note that unlocks a random item.
3- Finally, the actual research would be done as follows: each research has a set of aspects associated to it. When you research said aspects, they show up, so you can unlock it using experience points
Also,regarding warding blocks, why not make it so you can ward a chunk so only you can break things in that chunk?
I've been racking my brain trying to think of a solution for this. Suggestions are welcome
Can you do something similar to what Psi has? If you have gone through the research at least once, when making a new world, maybe give like a 50% completion on the previous research completed? Galoroth beat me to it.
Or you could designate certain research as basic. Once completed, it will be completed on subsequent Profiles/worlds.
Can you do something similar to what Psi has? If you have gone through the research at least once, when making a new world, maybe give like a 50% completion on the previous research completed?
No! No! No! No! No!
Minecraft is not Terraria and if somebody made a mod to alter that behaviour, he's welcome and if 'zanor decided to add TC support for that, it would also be really cool, but to add such a behaviour directly to Thaumcraft will make it seem obnoxious to the average user, lead to folder pollution and people would barely be able to appreciate such a feature, when it just goes against what we are used to from Minecraft.
Straight up giving yourself endgame content from some mod without doing anything for it is cheating.
However, maybe an item like "Thaumaturge's memoires" could be added to the Creative/NEI inventory and could be used to store and load progress across worlds. It would still be weird as hell, it would still be cheating, but you could use it as slightly more convenient and less overkill version of the cheatsheet.
but to add such a behaviour directly to Thaumcraft will make it seem obnoxious to the average user, lead to folder pollution and people would barely be able to appreciate such a feature, when it just goes against what we are used to from Minecraft.
i wasn't suggesting it as the default, but simply an alternative for the configs. i apologize for the lack of clarity
Straight up giving yourself endgame content from some mod without doing anything for it is cheating.
also i dont understand how giving oneself access to previously unlocked content is cheating seeing as its a matter of knowledge, it seems silly to me if not frustrating that such knowledge is bound to the world of the character rather than the character which was created by the player, that is to say in this case "Steve". though i do understand that some people like the research others would rather not have to do it a multitude of times.
edit: I'm not trying to imply that your wrong, I'm just stating my opinion along with my lack of understanding
I've been racking my brain trying to think of a solution for this. Suggestions are welcome
Well, adding more field work would do that, maybe.
My first suggestion.
But my suggestion would be to add every once in a while a dungeon/instance styled thing you go to similar to The Outerlands every once in a while to break the monotony, I think that could spice things up and let you keep research as it is.
I mean we have so many cool gadgets in Thaumcraft we can use, but one we don't really get to use too much are the weapons and aggressive foci.
Adding instance/dungeons styled around the different primal aspects could be fun, sounds a bit like a LoZ game though. lol
I just think adding a bit of an adventuring part to the game would be an awesome way to utilize some of the combat features a bit more.
Because frankly most of them I never use against regular zombies and skeletons and the lot (and I don't want to go downloading stuff like the Twilight Forest, I usually like my modded games being purely Thaumcraft), then I go to The Outerlands and I'm suddenly overwhelmed by their power, adding little instances here and there would be a fun way to kinda force players not to just finish the reasearchs and never make the actual devices.
I once beat the game by just making a gold capped Great Oak wand just using the Ignis, Aer, and Periditio foci, infused the eyes with the most basic alchemy engine, and went off to the outerlands and beat it. (After dying 6 trillion times)
Adding more dungeons like how The Outerlands were would add a bit more of a use to the Fortress armor and Sword of the Zephyr and stuff.
Just every once in a while adding something to do and to beat in order to pass would break up the endless desk work. (I personally enjoy the desk work, but I'd enjoy this too!)
I understand making the different dungeons/instances/whatever would be hard, but I'm sure you know some cool architects that could make the different rooms, I'd offer my assistance if you were to like this idea though. I'm not the best but I'm willing to commit help in the way I can to an idea I put out there.
I just think having fun dungeons with puzzles to solve and stuff would be fun, you could have one like some old haunted Library you're trying to get into to continue research for Ordo, a Volcano cavern for Ignis, you get the idea.
Thaumcraft has practically every type of fun that other mods have besides gardening and raids, I think adding raid instance styled things would give it more verity to fully utilize the combat based items even in single player, and now with the new combat system you could really hype combat up now that it's not just "Click faster!!!".
Again, I'll offer my help as an architect if you like the idea, though I assume you know better ones than I. lol
My second simpler suggestion.
Add different ways to research, People like me who enjoy the system as it is can just do it as it is.
Then you could make a system more about exploring and field work for travelers.
And then one based on testing theories in the raw, like throwing things into the cauldron, seeing what pops out/explodes in your face.
A much simpler idea than my first one.
And just a misc suggestion.
Make it so your foci aren't as potent in your off hand and the vis regenerates slower.
Why?
It'd give a bit of a choice between how you'd like to play the game, in the way that you can run about in the Fortress armor with the cool Thaumium swords and stuff, or a mage with the staff and Foci, with the offhand slot makes it so you could do both, I think it'd just be cool to reward someone for going fully to one side, but still encourage trying to be both.
So it's kinda like choosing to be a Knight, Mage, or Paladin. The Paladin is more all around and stuff.
And if you want people to easily skip research for those who are bored by it then you could make combining a research shard with a theory note to instantly complete them, gives research shards a bit more of a use.
i wasn't suggesting it as the default, but simply an alternative for the configs. i apologize for the lack of clarity
also i dont understand how giving oneself access to previously unlocked content is cheating seeing as its a matter of knowledge, it seems silly to me if not frustrating that such knowledge is bound to the world of the character rather than the character which was created by the player, that is to say in this case "Steve". though i do understand that some people like the research others would rather not have to do it a multitude of times.
edit: I'm not trying to imply that your wrong, I'm just stating my opinion along with my lack of understanding
Wall of Flesh Text has awoken!
That's where you're mixing up Terraria and Minecraft.
The thing that two characters of the same player in different worlds have in common are name and skin, which are directly dictated by the account.
In Terraria a character exists separate from the world and can carry stuff over to other worlds, stats, items, anything.
However, this is Minecraft and you do not start over in every new world because you cannot squeeze items through your interdimenional gap, but because the character in one world only RESEMBLES the character in the other world. They do not share any stats, equipment or even knowledge.
And I think that is how we are to think of our Minecraft characters, they only exist in their world and are complete slaves to their players.
The player obviously keeps knowledge and you will be at least three times as fast as you were on your first try with researching.
This is just Minecraft to me.
If someone, however, made a mod that allowed many custom dimensions for one world to be used as other worlds, or a mod that synchronizes characters in different worlds, then that would change it to character and world being separate, then a character carrying equipment, stats and knowledge would make complete sense.
You argument here is that we are not talking about items, but about knowledge. There is a difference in the real world, but let's be real, this is Minecraft and if actual knowledge was supposed to be the source of your power, the the Thaumonomicon would not be your most important tool for advancing in Thaumcraft, but just a giant cryptic manual, akin to the "Materials and You".
You could say that is to slow down the initial availability of knowledge, so players don't get overwhelmed instantly, but then certain research like "Node Preserver" in TC4 would make no sense.
Just explaining my view on Minecraft character uniqueness and knowledge.
And you could call me a beefy-headed goat-lover and I'd still stay objective in here. This forum is already too PC for my taste. lol
I've been racking my brain trying to think of a solution for this. Suggestions are welcome
I think the proposal for TC6 research is coming close, as a component of the research involves making the item.
As such, I would propose simply allowing players to craft anything they can look up in a wiki, and crafting it would unlock its own research topic. BUT: give all thaumcraft devices a quality rating that effects their operation - in terms of flux generated or efficiency. And make devices crafted with more background research completed be produced with a higher quality metric.
A different axis to this is that there is just too much hidden stuff that locks progress. Even having played through several times, the things I need to research to unlock brain-in-a-jar or infusion crafting (or whatever) are entirely unobvious.
Again, what I understand of the TC6 system goes a long way to solving this but: if players can start at the "other end" of the research: I should be able to - having just started Thaumcraft - wave my mouse over "Infusion crafting" and see at least the names of the researches I need to complete to get it. I think at least the text of the research should be available at the beginning of the research. Do I want "advanced node tapping" or "research expertise"? I literally don't know until I complete it.
tl;dr; tell players what the research is going to unlock before they do it - show players the research path to the things they want and it will be easier for newbies to discover the goodness in the mod and veterans to focus their research on the path they want.
An idea for dealing with the research replayability issues:
First of all, you need a file to store research between games. It should be a separate file so that players can even move it between profiles. Naturally the format should allow for changes in the mod and/or intermod setup -- researches that have "disappeared" should be quietly ignored, newfound researches should not be automatically filled in. It might or might not be keyed to a given player ID. Call this setup the Akashic Records.
Fairly early in the research, you get the ability to create an Akashic Tome. This gives access to the Akashic Records -- it can be used to store your research from the current game, but also lets you quickly complete research stored from prior games. It should be moderately expensive for whatever game stage it gets introduced in, possibly with its own quest. (E.g: discover all aspects, collect a block each of taintwood, Amber, and Lapis Lazuli (maybe gold and diamond too, or those could be saved for tiers).
You might need multiple Tomes for multiple sections (tiered with different resources?), the tricky part here is making sure that an add-on's research topics can be stored in some tome. The add-ons might need to define their own tome and/or assign their research topics to "standard" TC tomes.
It shouldn't blast through all the gates -- for example, you should still need to unlock pages before you can read them -- but it should at least identify what needs to be done to unlock any topics that are stored, and allow skipping most of the "boring stuff".
ETA: There should be some way to share the research between players, either through passwording (GUI text, or even blocks in a pedestal?), or explicit gifting in-game.
ETA: Expansion on "pedestal passwording": The "Tome" item would be a block used to mount the Thaumonomicon on top, but it needs to be surrounded by 8 solid non-TE blocks whose identities (including metadata) represent a key. When placed on this 3x3 pedestal, the Thaumonomicon will attach the "pedestal list" to any stored research, and can quick-learn any topic which has previously been stored with a matching key. Whether the block list is arrangement-dependent is up to you, but if it is there's rotations and reflections to consider. An additional thought: More (expensive) Tome blocks can also be used among the 8 outside blocks, and functions as a wildcard for both storage and retrieval. (Just in case some of your mod blocks have gone bye-bye.)
I did some CraftTweaker scripts for Mystical Agriculture. They fill in a couple of small gaps in MA, and also let you make or duplicate not only vanilla plants, but the blocks, plants and wood from Quark and Biomes O'Plenty. Also spawn eggs for most vanilla mobs! The scripts are here on Github.
I've been racking my brain trying to think of a solution for this. Suggestions are welcome
Thing is, research is the primary gating method to progress in the mod. Unless you want to just remove all semblance of progression, those gates need to exist in some fashion and vanilla minecraft is no different in that regard, the people that complain about having to re-do all of the research but don't find an issue with having to punch trees at the beginning of each new world are drawing an arbitrary line in my opinion. That said, the gates in Thaumcraft are many. (I don't see this as a problem necessarily but I could see how some people would). I think that finding ways to remove (or just discourage) that "new world research crunch-fest" that happens at the beginning of every game would work wonders for the level of tedium.
I think that your thoughts about research stages and, in particular, in-the-field experimentation and/or prototyping have promise as ways to make the process a little less front-heavy and more engaging in general. In addition to this, though, it might be worth considering turning some more of the researches into hexes. Research Mastery, for example, while it does represent a significant step in your research efficiency, it is really just modifying something you could already do so I don't think making it a hex would be too bad (it could even be an expensive hex, by comparison) given that you can do it basically right away. I happen to really like the research puzzles but I think a big part of the issue people have with it could be mitigated, if not solved, by increasing the variety of methods required to do the research. Maybe some things need some kind of field-test, some require current researching, some just require scanning something (with no associated research puzzle) or some just require Exp or some other resource.
Someone else has suggested listing the requirements to unlock researches with hidden requirements. I know that for some people the 'obfuscated' nature of some of the progression is off-putting and that might help but if you go that route, I sincerely hope it's a config option because I think that discovery is a huge part of this mod and it seriously impacts the level of immersion for those sorts of things to just be blatantly stated. That's just my two cents.
I've been racking my brain trying to think of a solution for this. Suggestions are welcome
Perhaps a mechanic you mentioned some time ago of adding three or so different "paths" that you'll later be able to complete all of for higher costs, as to break up the monotony of a playthrough? Granting more immediate access to certain research and delayed access to others.
If that makes sense.
...PSI?
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Praise be Ro-naza, greatest among the thaumaturges!
An idea for dealing with the research replayability issues:
First of all, you need a file to store research between games. It should be a separate file so that players can even move it between profiles. Naturally the format should allow for changes in the mod and/or intermod setup -- researches that have "disappeared" should be quietly ignored, newfound researches should not be automatically filled in. It might or might not be keyed to a given player ID. Call this setup the Akashic Records.
Fairly early in the research, you get the ability to create an Akashic Tome. This gives access to the Akashic Records -- it can be used to store your research from the current game, but also lets you quickly complete research stored from prior games. It should be moderately expensive for whatever game stage it gets introduced in, possibly with its own quest. (E.g: discover all aspects, collect a block each of taintwood, Amber, and Lapis Lazuli (maybe gold and diamond too, or those could be saved for tiers).
You might need multiple Tomes for multiple sections (tiered with different resources?), the tricky part here is making sure that an add-on's research topics can be stored in some tome. The add-ons might need to define their own tome and/or assign their research topics to "standard" TC tomes.
It shouldn't blast through all the gates -- for example, you should still need to unlock pages before you can read them -- but it should at least identify what needs to be done to unlock any topics that are stored, and allow skipping most of the "boring stuff".
ETA: There should be some way to share the research between players, either through passwording (GUI text, or even blocks in a pedestal?), or explicit gifting in-game.
ETA: Expansion on "pedestal passwording": The "Tome" item would be a block used to mount the Thaumonomicon on top, but it needs to be surrounded by 8 solid non-TE blocks whose identities (including metadata) represent a key. When placed on this 3x3 pedestal, the Thaumonomicon will attach the "pedestal list" to any stored research, and can quick-learn any topic which has previously been stored with a matching key. Whether the block list is arrangement-dependent is up to you, but if it is there's rotations and reflections to consider. An additional thought: More (expensive) Tome blocks can also be used among the 8 outside blocks, and functions as a wildcard for both storage and retrieval. (Just in case some of your mod blocks have gone bye-bye.)
I mostly understood points 1-5 but for the detailed stuff in point 6 I might find myself watching a few tutorials if it gets implemented that way. As for what I understood though, full support.
Edit: just read it again and it finally dawned on me what you meant, I must be tired today lol
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
1.11 might not have changed so much, so it might be easy to port this to 1.11 when done
There's a small but irritating change to itemstacks that might take a few irritating days to iron out, especially for something like Thaumcraft. Just saying this for the good of the cause.
There's a small but irritating change to itemstacks that might take a few irritating days to iron out, especially for something like Thaumcraft. Just saying this for the good of the cause.
Also, a whole new way of registering mod entities, which still needs ironing out in its own way.
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I just took the Minecraft Noob test! Check out what I scored. Think you can beat me?!
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I wonder if you could use your old wands as batteries? Just coat the wood with crystal and you'd have your own little vis capacitor/conductor.
Would give you a new use for that old wood/iron and greatwood/gold wand you've no longer got any use for.
Maybe even have machines that requires different types of wand/cap combinations to be crafted?
For research stuff:
Perhaps have it so that a research needs a set amount of points to finish, and when you do stuff related to it it adds to the research's total?
So imagine you want to learn about, Say, Nitor. You could spend a few minutes at the research table collecting points by figuring out how it works and then test your hypothesis in the world. Or perhaps you could forego the study part entirely and just try to create nitor directly. Writing down what you observed when you return to your research table, Then weaving the threads into a functional theory.
Basically you can get points from studying in the table, Observing the function(s) of the thing you want to learn about or just from crafting the object directly.
How's that?
Edit:
And as always: Variance is good.
Maybe have different mini-games depending on what you're researching?
It is already possible to share your progress in SSP games by copying the *.thaum contents of the player data folder from one save to the next.
And thaumcraft on a server won't be able to access the 'saved' data from a different server so really, the only way to allow this is to have an in game way of - not to put too fine a point on it - bypassing progression using player knowledge.
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Curse PremiumI've been racking my brain trying to think of a solution for this. Suggestions are welcome
Hmm well despite the tedium of researching more than one research note at once, and being able to just research most things from the get-go, I actually really like you can't brute force the research with just having lots of resources like most other mods, and actually have to study the mechanism.
Not sure what would be a good replacement though, maybe some sort of arcane picross...
Or maybe a way to tinker with stuff made from the previous research on the research table to discover clues to the subsequent researches by mixing it with other stuff or vis (which would allow for a wiki user to check for the exact combination, and produce clues to some other research and/or explosions/fires/flux for the players that like to experiment) and a way to tinker with thaumic stuff left behind by other thaumaturges to research they work and how to make them (or breaking them beyond repair).
I don't think this link leads to anywhere.
to cover the complaint of having to research do per world maybe there could be an easy mode in which research tabs where unlocked instead of individual research, though it would cut out most of the research it might alleviate the complaints while at the same time still providing a sense of progression.
alternatively you could try making research persist per world similar to how psi does with spells.
make every minigame a set puzzle, not randomly generated. maybe having slight variations (like a couple alternate versions) but nothing major. maybe with scanning things with research points allowing for more attempts or mistakes when trying to solve the minigame so that people skilled in it dont have to actually do the scanning because tbh that was not a fun aspect of TC4 on the 5th times around.
I like this idea. picross to create little pixel art of the object you are researching would be great fun, but might not fit with the theme. I like match three puzzles.
Doing research in thaumcraft has always been fun... the first couple of times. Then it was just a nuisance you wanted to go away so you could get to the fun part. Why was it boring? In my opinion, because of one thing: doing the same minigame over an over again (don't get me wrong, the mini game is awesome), for not only you had to do it to unlock the whole thaumonomicon, but you had to do it in every playthrough, should you want to play legit. How can this be solved? Via empirical observation.
So, in my suggestion, research would be done as follows:
1- You scan different items trying to understand what they are made out of (as usual, with your trusty thaumometer).
2- Then, you expand your knowledge of said aspects by gaining empirical knowledge of it, learning how kit interacts and modify the world; this is achieved by simply witnessing said interactions: you gain knowledge of terra by breaking stone or dirt, of aqua by swimming or sailing a boat, ignis by being on fire, smelting things, lux by lighting up dark places, and so on and so forth. So, every time you witness those, there's a chance you can get it (this percentage could be increased with the research mastery -obtained by researching things)-, and by having researched said aspect in previous iterations of the game - so it will get easier if you have done it's research already-). Alternatively, you can experiment with essentia (mini game) for a higher chance of discovering something, but with a chance of something going wrong (explosions, flux or warping your mind -this comes from codebreaker's suggestion-) or by using a lost research note that unlocks a random item.
3- Finally, the actual research would be done as follows: each research has a set of aspects associated to it. When you research said aspects, they show up, so you can unlock it using experience points
Also,regarding warding blocks, why not make it so you can ward a chunk so only you can break things in that chunk?
sfwrvs is a scammer. Get the post disposed of.
Also remove your quote.
I made a D flip-flop!
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Curse PremiumCan you do something similar to what Psi has? If you have gone through the research at least once, when making a new world, maybe give like a 50% completion on the previous research completed?Galoroth beat me to it.Or you could designate certain research as basic. Once completed, it will be completed on subsequent Profiles/worlds.
"We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far."
No! No! No! No! No!
Minecraft is not Terraria and if somebody made a mod to alter that behaviour, he's welcome and if 'zanor decided to add TC support for that, it would also be really cool, but to add such a behaviour directly to Thaumcraft will make it seem obnoxious to the average user, lead to folder pollution and people would barely be able to appreciate such a feature, when it just goes against what we are used to from Minecraft.
Straight up giving yourself endgame content from some mod without doing anything for it is cheating.
However, maybe an item like "Thaumaturge's memoires" could be added to the Creative/NEI inventory and could be used to store and load progress across worlds. It would still be weird as hell, it would still be cheating, but you could use it as slightly more convenient and less overkill version of the cheatsheet.
EDIT: I saw your edit, my poit remains.
I made a D flip-flop!
i wasn't suggesting it as the default, but simply an alternative for the configs. i apologize for the lack of clarity
also i dont understand how giving oneself access to previously unlocked content is cheating seeing as its a matter of knowledge, it seems silly to me if not frustrating that such knowledge is bound to the world of the character rather than the character which was created by the player, that is to say in this case "Steve". though i do understand that some people like the research others would rather not have to do it a multitude of times.
edit: I'm not trying to imply that your wrong, I'm just stating my opinion along with my lack of understanding
Well, adding more field work would do that, maybe.
My first suggestion.
But my suggestion would be to add every once in a while a dungeon/instance styled thing you go to similar to The Outerlands every once in a while to break the monotony, I think that could spice things up and let you keep research as it is.
I mean we have so many cool gadgets in Thaumcraft we can use, but one we don't really get to use too much are the weapons and aggressive foci.
Adding instance/dungeons styled around the different primal aspects could be fun, sounds a bit like a LoZ game though. lol
I just think adding a bit of an adventuring part to the game would be an awesome way to utilize some of the combat features a bit more.
Because frankly most of them I never use against regular zombies and skeletons and the lot (and I don't want to go downloading stuff like the Twilight Forest, I usually like my modded games being purely Thaumcraft), then I go to The Outerlands and I'm suddenly overwhelmed by their power, adding little instances here and there would be a fun way to kinda force players not to just finish the reasearchs and never make the actual devices.
I once beat the game by just making a gold capped Great Oak wand just using the Ignis, Aer, and Periditio foci, infused the eyes with the most basic alchemy engine, and went off to the outerlands and beat it. (After dying 6 trillion times)
Adding more dungeons like how The Outerlands were would add a bit more of a use to the Fortress armor and Sword of the Zephyr and stuff.
Just every once in a while adding something to do and to beat in order to pass would break up the endless desk work. (I personally enjoy the desk work, but I'd enjoy this too!)
I understand making the different dungeons/instances/whatever would be hard, but I'm sure you know some cool architects that could make the different rooms, I'd offer my assistance if you were to like this idea though. I'm not the best but I'm willing to commit help in the way I can to an idea I put out there.
I just think having fun dungeons with puzzles to solve and stuff would be fun, you could have one like some old haunted Library you're trying to get into to continue research for Ordo, a Volcano cavern for Ignis, you get the idea.
Thaumcraft has practically every type of fun that other mods have besides gardening and raids, I think adding raid instance styled things would give it more verity to fully utilize the combat based items even in single player, and now with the new combat system you could really hype combat up now that it's not just "Click faster!!!".
Again, I'll offer my help as an architect if you like the idea, though I assume you know better ones than I. lol
My second simpler suggestion.
Add different ways to research, People like me who enjoy the system as it is can just do it as it is.
Then you could make a system more about exploring and field work for travelers.
And then one based on testing theories in the raw, like throwing things into the cauldron, seeing what pops out/explodes in your face.
A much simpler idea than my first one.
And just a misc suggestion.
Make it so your foci aren't as potent in your off hand and the vis regenerates slower.
Why?
It'd give a bit of a choice between how you'd like to play the game, in the way that you can run about in the Fortress armor with the cool Thaumium swords and stuff, or a mage with the staff and Foci, with the offhand slot makes it so you could do both, I think it'd just be cool to reward someone for going fully to one side, but still encourage trying to be both.
So it's kinda like choosing to be a Knight, Mage, or Paladin. The Paladin is more all around and stuff.
And if you want people to easily skip research for those who are bored by it then you could make combining a research shard with a theory note to instantly complete them, gives research shards a bit more of a use.
Just a thought!
Wall of
FleshText has awoken!That's where you're mixing up Terraria and Minecraft.
The thing that two characters of the same player in different worlds have in common are name and skin, which are directly dictated by the account.
In Terraria a character exists separate from the world and can carry stuff over to other worlds, stats, items, anything.
However, this is Minecraft and you do not start over in every new world because you cannot squeeze items through your interdimenional gap, but because the character in one world only RESEMBLES the character in the other world. They do not share any stats, equipment or even knowledge.
And I think that is how we are to think of our Minecraft characters, they only exist in their world and are complete slaves to their players.
The player obviously keeps knowledge and you will be at least three times as fast as you were on your first try with researching.
This is just Minecraft to me.
If someone, however, made a mod that allowed many custom dimensions for one world to be used as other worlds, or a mod that synchronizes characters in different worlds, then that would change it to character and world being separate, then a character carrying equipment, stats and knowledge would make complete sense.
You argument here is that we are not talking about items, but about knowledge. There is a difference in the real world, but let's be real, this is Minecraft and if actual knowledge was supposed to be the source of your power, the the Thaumonomicon would not be your most important tool for advancing in Thaumcraft, but just a giant cryptic manual, akin to the "Materials and You".
You could say that is to slow down the initial availability of knowledge, so players don't get overwhelmed instantly, but then certain research like "Node Preserver" in TC4 would make no sense.
Just explaining my view on Minecraft character uniqueness and knowledge.
And you could call me a beefy-headed goat-lover and I'd still stay objective in here. This forum is already too PC for my taste. lol
I made a D flip-flop!
I think the proposal for TC6 research is coming close, as a component of the research involves making the item.
As such, I would propose simply allowing players to craft anything they can look up in a wiki, and crafting it would unlock its own research topic. BUT: give all thaumcraft devices a quality rating that effects their operation - in terms of flux generated or efficiency. And make devices crafted with more background research completed be produced with a higher quality metric.
A different axis to this is that there is just too much hidden stuff that locks progress. Even having played through several times, the things I need to research to unlock brain-in-a-jar or infusion crafting (or whatever) are entirely unobvious.
Again, what I understand of the TC6 system goes a long way to solving this but: if players can start at the "other end" of the research: I should be able to - having just started Thaumcraft - wave my mouse over "Infusion crafting" and see at least the names of the researches I need to complete to get it. I think at least the text of the research should be available at the beginning of the research. Do I want "advanced node tapping" or "research expertise"? I literally don't know until I complete it.
tl;dr; tell players what the research is going to unlock before they do it - show players the research path to the things they want and it will be easier for newbies to discover the goodness in the mod and veterans to focus their research on the path they want.
An idea for dealing with the research replayability issues:
Thing is, research is the primary gating method to progress in the mod. Unless you want to just remove all semblance of progression, those gates need to exist in some fashion and vanilla minecraft is no different in that regard, the people that complain about having to re-do all of the research but don't find an issue with having to punch trees at the beginning of each new world are drawing an arbitrary line in my opinion. That said, the gates in Thaumcraft are many. (I don't see this as a problem necessarily but I could see how some people would). I think that finding ways to remove (or just discourage) that "new world research crunch-fest" that happens at the beginning of every game would work wonders for the level of tedium.
I think that your thoughts about research stages and, in particular, in-the-field experimentation and/or prototyping have promise as ways to make the process a little less front-heavy and more engaging in general. In addition to this, though, it might be worth considering turning some more of the researches into hexes. Research Mastery, for example, while it does represent a significant step in your research efficiency, it is really just modifying something you could already do so I don't think making it a hex would be too bad (it could even be an expensive hex, by comparison) given that you can do it basically right away. I happen to really like the research puzzles but I think a big part of the issue people have with it could be mitigated, if not solved, by increasing the variety of methods required to do the research. Maybe some things need some kind of field-test, some require current researching, some just require scanning something (with no associated research puzzle) or some just require Exp or some other resource.
Someone else has suggested listing the requirements to unlock researches with hidden requirements. I know that for some people the 'obfuscated' nature of some of the progression is off-putting and that might help but if you go that route, I sincerely hope it's a config option because I think that discovery is a huge part of this mod and it seriously impacts the level of immersion for those sorts of things to just be blatantly stated. That's just my two cents.
Perhaps a mechanic you mentioned some time ago of adding three or so different "paths" that you'll later be able to complete all of for higher costs, as to break up the monotony of a playthrough? Granting more immediate access to certain research and delayed access to others.
If that makes sense.
...PSI?
Praise be Ro-naza, greatest among the thaumaturges!
I mostly understood points 1-5 but for the detailed stuff in point 6 I might find myself watching a few tutorials if it gets implemented that way. As for what I understood though, full support.
Edit: just read it again and it finally dawned on me what you meant, I must be tired today lol
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
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Curse PremiumThere's a small but irritating change to itemstacks that might take a few irritating days to iron out, especially for something like Thaumcraft. Just saying this for the good of the cause.
In the meantime, I'll just rotate the board.
Also, a whole new way of registering mod entities, which still needs ironing out in its own way.
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I wonder if you could use your old wands as batteries? Just coat the wood with crystal and you'd have your own little vis capacitor/conductor.
Would give you a new use for that old wood/iron and greatwood/gold wand you've no longer got any use for.
Maybe even have machines that requires different types of wand/cap combinations to be crafted?
For research stuff:
Perhaps have it so that a research needs a set amount of points to finish, and when you do stuff related to it it adds to the research's total?
So imagine you want to learn about, Say, Nitor. You could spend a few minutes at the research table collecting points by figuring out how it works and then test your hypothesis in the world. Or perhaps you could forego the study part entirely and just try to create nitor directly. Writing down what you observed when you return to your research table, Then weaving the threads into a functional theory.
Basically you can get points from studying in the table, Observing the function(s) of the thing you want to learn about or just from crafting the object directly.
How's that?
Edit:
And as always: Variance is good.
Maybe have different mini-games depending on what you're researching?
It is already possible to share your progress in SSP games by copying the *.thaum contents of the player data folder from one save to the next.
And thaumcraft on a server won't be able to access the 'saved' data from a different server so really, the only way to allow this is to have an in game way of - not to put too fine a point on it - bypassing progression using player knowledge.