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You can count me under the list of "people who stop using this mod until warp is changed or removed".

The more I hear about warp, the worse it sounds. This was a mod about collecting new resources and building devices, using magic to build new things and fight mobs. It's sounding like the advanced game is turning into a mod about making absolutely sure you can't enjoy your achievements: Being continuously twitchy, never being safe anywhere (especially, never safe to AFK), and struggling to cope with random debuffs, spawns, and other screw-overs. Thematic? Whose theme? I haven't played Blood Magic, but AFAICT even that doesn't mess you up half as much, and it's about blood sacrifice!

Adding to all the talk of warp: even something so simple as a grace period after getting a warp effect would be nice. I'm getting effects while I'm sitting in my house twiddling my fingers and waiting for flux phage or death's gaze to go away.

That said, it's worth remembering this IS an earlier release than Azanor might otherwise have been planning on. We only got it now 'cause we all asked so nicely when he seemed to be feeling down. So if you read this Azanor: We still love you! I like the concept of warp, and there's definitely the basis of a good thing there. It's just kind of overbearing at the moment.

On the topic of warp, I might as well give my two cents. I personally like warp, as I see it as "Making a deal with a demon". You gain great power, but at a cost. You know there will be risks, you know that it might come back to haunt you(In more ways then one), but you chose to do it anyway because you want that oh so tempting research. You are both rewarded and punished for your choice. Dive head first into the forbidden and you'll be able to use powers long forgotten, but start seeing why they were forgotten...

It seems people here want more ways to "Deal" with warp. While I am completely against being able to "Remove" warp(Because what would be the point then?), I might offer a few ideas. People want a way to have an "Aura of protection" against warp effects for a base, so perhaps have a device powered by CV to do just that. The range is based on how much CV is pumped into it, needing at least one of every primal and the range based on the lowest number. Being inside the range gives the "Warp Ward" effect. Another option is a bauble that automagicly use bath salts in your inventory at the cost of a chunk of aqua vis. Costs more then normal, but you stop needing to worry about finding a pool of water for the effect.

So far I really like warp, but I guess I don't have enough for the more serious effects. So far it's just screen dimming and lots of free research, with an occasional debuff. For those getting the guardians and spiders and whatever and complaining about not being able to AFK, what happens if you build a 1x1x2 room in your house and AFK in there? Can they still get you?

Something in the config has been bothering me for a bit. The research difficulty setting appears to be reversed, -1 is far (vastly) more difficult than 1 because you need so much more of what is usually more complex research points. At 0 the hardest section to complete has always been the wand/staff cores, now imagine that everywhere, why do you call that "easy?" It's not that I want an actual easy mode, I got tired of the mini-game after filling out the book many times over but was afraid to set it to "easy" because I thought it would feel like cheating, but it's been the opposite, it's more difficult and satisfying and setting it back to 0 or 1 would feel more like cheating to me at this point (since almost everything can be solved by taking one step toward wind then drawing a line of trees and sprouts, or going toward earth/order and using metal/crystal, all of which you get ridiculous amounts of and use nowhere else).

Quote from Sanati»

Something in the config has been bothering me for a bit. The research difficulty setting appears to be reversed, -1 is far (vastly) more difficult than 1 because you need so much more of what is usually more complex research points.

For some of us, the puzzles themselves are a sticking point. The extra points needed for easy mode are a tradeoff, but the D-table makes it straightforward to get more points.

Quote from TheFlyingBanana »So if you read this Azanor: We still love you! I like the concept of warp, and there's definitely the basis of a good thing there. It's just kind of overbearing at the moment.

That is what irks me about it.


Though I have voiced my complaint, it should be known that I don't do so lightly. Normally if I don't a mod, I just don't use it and I don't say anything. But I don't hate thaumcraft 4, which is what makes it all the more painful. Instead of the warp changes falling into the "don't like it, therefore don't care" category, warp is essentially punishing me for wanting to use all of the neat little goodies and ideas I already love using in the first place. When looking at other mods, they can accomplish stronger feats with less costs, which is a gigantic turnoff for thaumcraft 4.2


The system can be changed for the better, and if it is changed, then I'm ready to jump aboard the train all over again.


An idea:


Have a way to remove warp, but also make it so warped materials and items have a certain threshold in which needs to be surpassed in order to craft and gain the full effects. Likewise, have more ways to gain warp (such as eating tainted materials, at great damage to the player). That way, instead of warp being an unending curse to the player, warp becomes an actual exchange, wherein a player can pay for greater power with the insanity that comes with it.

Calcifire3691: Now, that's just spiteful. "You don't like being warped? Fine, you're not a thaumaturge anymore."

Quote from MentalMouse42»

the D-table makes it straightforward to get more points.

"Straightforward" sure, but woefully inadequate. A stack of crafting tables might get you a single research, assuming you have a lot of luck with the ordo. The only way to get anywhere is to scan a ton of aura nodes, the deconstruction table is more for when you are just missing a point or two.

Quote from Sanati»

"Straightforward" sure, but woefully inadequate. A stack of crafting tables might get you a single research, assuming you have a lot of luck with the ordo. The only way to get anywhere is to scan a ton of aura nodes, the deconstruction table is more for when you are just missing a point or two.

Crafting tables cost a whole block of wood apiece, and only have one aspect to split. Use wool instead.... Last game I used the D-table to (eventually) push through the wand/staff tree on "easy" mode. Plenty of Ordo....

What will be in the new update (if there is one)?

Quote from Megaprr»

On another note, I was looking around and found this: http://i.imgur.com/KKMw1pZ.jpg

I think it would be very cool, (and really fit into the whole occult/alchemical codex that Thaumcraft has) if something like that image was put into the Aspect entry of the Thaumonomicon, but the aspect links got graphically unlocked over time as you discover them. Perhaps a black and white diagram?

It is cool -- in fact, it's my desktop background. Alas, that particular image is outdated (you can still see the old recipes for Saxum and Sano), but I'd love to see a current version. I don't so much want to see it in the Thaumonomicon (it would be graphically too complex), but I'd be psyched to see merch like that.

Quote from Kactionman123»

What will be in the new update (if there is one)?

There will be one. Never, ever doubt Azanor and his ability to keep us on our toes.

As for what's next? It's a secret.

Calcifire3691: Thanks! I will note that from prior comments, the "sunburn" doesn't follow all the rules for undead -- it seems a helmet does not protect you. (Understandably.)

Quote from MentalMouse42»

The more I hear about warp, the worse it sounds. This was a mod about collecting new resources and building devices, using magic to build new things and fight mobs. It's sounding like the advanced game is turning into a mod about making absolutely sure you can't enjoy your achievements: Being continuously twitchy, never being safe anywhere (especially, never safe to AFK), and struggling to cope with random debuffs, spawns, and other screw-overs. Thematic? Whose theme? I haven't played Blood Magic, but AFAICT even that doesn't mess you up half as much, and it's about blood sacrifice!

Well, I see it as a way to make the player chose just how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. A few forbidden researches under your belt won't be causing horible effects, just a few minor ones like applying a temporary filter to the screen(Making it a little blurry or darker around the edges), but if you want everything, the best of the best, you start getting the really nasty stuff. Having just research mastery, infernal furnace, and brain in a jar gives around six points of warp(Last I checked it was mostly harmless, minor, moderate for severity of these three). With just this, you should still have only minor effects yet not be anywhere near eldritch. Bath salts will last quite some time(With low warp they last over an hour each), so if you want only the weakest effects you don't need to spend much.

The reason warp was added, at least as it seems to me, was for a way to balance things against something other then resource cost or infrastructure. You give the player items, things they don't "Need" but would be very helpful, useful, or powerful. Most mods, when they add something like this, add in a huge cost to make it. The way warp balances the item is to force the player to ask "Is it worth it?" and "How far should I really go?" instead of "How much/How long will this take?".

One nice thing to take away is how few items have warp attached to them. Here, a list of them all with warp values:
Now then, how many of these do you really use? If the answer is "None", the how does it effect you? Now, almost everyone can't live without "Research mastery", but aside from that... Most of these are things you don't "Need", but might be useful or powerful.Where they stand in the research tree mean you typically only do them if you want that item. So in the end the player needs to decide what is worth the cost of warp.

So now I ask, how far are you willing to go down the rabbit hole, because I will be at the bottom in a Eldritch wonderland...