They don't need phials!(and sever side problems seems to have been fixed). As for the tubes, they're more like other pipes then you think. You don't expect to have one pipe to move your lava, water, seed oil, and steam? Other then there limited range, they're not that different.
If you think of the fluid pipes, then yes they're not really that different. If you're thinking of item pipes like from build crafts logistics expansion or Red Powers pneumatic system then there is precedent for pipes that can handle a lot of different junk moving through them. Either way, since we have filtered pipes at least wouldn't it make sense to be able to send different essentia down a pipe one after the other and have them get filtered out as they move along? If this was realistic fluids we'd have to worry about cross-contamination but this is magical "stuff" and I'd assume that the filtering methods are up to the task.
Phials are multi-use? Huh, I was outright trying to skip them entirely. Yeah, last time I touched the mod it was still version 3.
If you think of the fluid pipes, then yes they're not really that different. If you're thinking of item pipes like from build crafts logistics expansion or Red Powers pneumatic system then there is precedent for pipes that can handle a lot of different junk moving through them. Either way, since we have filtered pipes at least wouldn't it make sense to be able to send different essentia down a pipe one after the other and have them get filtered out as they move along? If this was realistic fluids we'd have to worry about cross-contamination but this is magical "stuff" and I'd assume that the filtering methods are up to the task.
Well, the filters don't stop essentia from flowing through them. The turn any suction that pass through them into the labeled type. So suction will still be a problem, but if an empty jar is going to be pulling from several sources(Like alembics) then you can guaranty what will come in.(A "Colored" suction should only pull the type they're assigned, but can still interfere with other suctions). They are useful for buffers, and can make bigger systems possible.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Question not the mad-mans ways, for you may begin to see logic in his actions, then find yourself mad as well.
You may call me The Madman, as there is no name that suits me better.
I happen to make modded survival maps, if your interested see my latest: The Asylum
Ah, and in the long run, full automated essentia sorting is still not possible without alchemy golems. Far less the ability to send unwanted compound essentia straight into a centrifuge after the primal and useful compounds had been sorted out.
Hm... idea. An essentia buffer can hold up to 8 different types of essentia (up to a total of the 8). What if you were to place a few buffers in tandem, and then to a pipe network with labeled warded jars behind valves. Just open the valves based on what you're expecting to be in the buffers and let the jars suck out the essentia one at a time. Then you use a valve to close off the buffers, open up all the warded jars, and another to open up something like that automated alchemy I'm looking forward to playing with?
No need for valves. http://imgur.com/a/2AZ3j
If you are looking for a gigantic pipe networks, you have just to learn the intricacies.
This is done vanilla + tc, and it's completely automated.
It's costly, requires time and timing.... Everything can be automated, i have no idea of the how Asura's Wrath's system looked, but if you are looking for some impressive systems well... you can have them.
(i know, 4th time posting the link. Not that i'm self promoting, it's just... depressing seeing a complex system being mistreated and misunderstood )
Not a bad idea. I'd have to subcontract the redstone wiring to someone who actually understands that stuff though. I just might have to settle for a semi-automated system that requires me turning a few valves.
Wow, okay then. Welp, that confirms what I've suspected: Thaumcraft is AWESOME but impractical. Well, the server has UE: Atomic Science and Minefactory Reloaded as well... I'll just go build a giant flying fusion powered laser drill or something.
It's less awesome but impractical and more difficult but awesome. You have to really work for what you do, and the rewards are that much the sweeter for it.
Ahahaah it's really basic redstone with repeaters for signal strenght or passing through blocks. Strange postonish contraption? A glorified clock (that autoresets at server restart. Can be replaced with project red's clock or... well... any clock) The trick are the torches inverting the signal where is needed.
Buffer even works, buffer odd doesn't. Buffer odd does? Buffer even doesn't..... Magic tricks are way less impressive when explained
Edit: Also, remember the addons. Many add too much in what i think it's needed for essentia. TT adds the Transvector interface.
1 buffer, 6 sides. 1 buffer and 8 transvector interfaces? more than 50...
Ah, I still don't know much of anything about redstone wiring, timing, clockbuilding, etc. We do have a person who can do that (she built TnT cannons and Redpower flying ships for fun a few servers back) but that's just not my area. I feel a bit more at home with the cables used by the tech mods.
As for why thaumcraft is impractical for me? Entirely the nuance of a large modpack. The only rewards are if you happen to like the idea of the mod in the first place (I love magitech settings), the stuff looks cool, and maybe the odd item or two. If those two lamps I see in the 'nomicon do what I think they do, other people on the server might have a use for them. Stuff like that. The rest of the functionality is overshadowed. As much as I like the native metal clumps, its better to just send the ore through the thermal expansion pulverizer. Faster, easier to set-up and to process 5 stacks of iron/copper/lead/whatever with bonus dusts. By the time I'm done the only real use I'd have for most of these warded jars anyway is probably decoration or maybe 5 stacks of alumentum or the like.
As for the Thaumcraft add-ons, I'll go look for those. As much as I like building complex machines, I much prefer it when the components work on simple principles that are easy to apply to unique set-ups. It almost sounds like Azanor has restricted the operations of Thaumcraft pipes (such as the buffer only adding up to 8) because as others have pointed out they're not originally intended to work for large-scale operations. You're supposed to switch to golems after a certain level of complexity. Though there's probably some mirror universe where Nega-Azanor thinks its absolutely silly to use golem armies for large scale operations and has them nerfed while pipes are less restricted.
They don't need phials!(and sever side problems seems to have been fixed). As for the tubes, they're more like other pipes then you think. You don't expect to have one pipeline to move your lava, water, seed oil, and steam? Other then there limited range, they're not that different.
On the other hand, I don't expect to have to have thirty different item ducts side by side to move each possible type of metal ingot, mineral, or partly-processed ore coming out of my ore processor.
No need for valves. http://imgur.com/a/2AZ3j
If you are looking for a gigantic pipe networks, you have just to learn the intricacies.
Dear gods, that is an eyesore.
No offense intended, it's your world and your play style, but ... I would not want to build anything like that in my world, ever. It offends my engineering sensibilities. I like things elegant and, where appropriate, tucked out of sight. Cables and pipes run inside floors, etc. Hidden circuitry inside single-block-thick walls.
Yeah, I'm currently in a rather tight self-imposed space restriction. I'm also not looking to make a machine that would sort ALL THE ESSENTIA! My idea was having a "garbage disposal" arcane furnace that I could just toss stuff into rather than abusing my op powers and just deleting random stuff I don't need anymore with NEI.
The stuff would get broken down into essentia (or hopefully just disappear if it didn't have any) and the essentia would pass along a small sorting array that would pick out the 6 primals and maybe a few of the most commonly used compounds (for metal transfusion, that sorta thing). The rest would just pass on to a centrifuge or several and get fed back into the loop until it was eventually all processed.
I'm going to go ahead and try to use golems. I was really interested in them a long time ago, maybe I can rekindle that interest.
No need for valves. http://imgur.com/a/2AZ3j
If you are looking for a gigantic pipe networks, you have just to learn the intricacies.
This is done vanilla + tc, and it's completely automated.
It's costly, requires time and timing.... Everything can be automated, i have no idea of the how Asura's Wrath's system looked, but if you are looking for some impressive systems well... you can have them.
(i know, 4th time posting the link. Not that i'm self promoting, it's just... depressing seeing a complex system being mistreated and misunderstood )
It's not just the system that's being misunderstood, it's just pipes in general. I also disagree with the system being mistreated. It just (at a glance) a massive beast with pipes and redstone everywhere so something that looks like that can easily discourage people.
I was actually looking for this the other day tbh. Any chance you could upload that world to a file sharing site like mediafire or something? I'd like to take a closer look at it (and see it in action) before I build this in survival. Of course I could always deconstruct it from the screenshots you've provided but it'd be easier just to get an up close look at it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Due to my snarky and sarcastic personality I can easily be seen as a jerk. If I've offended you in any way it was likely unintended.
On the other hand, I don't expect to have to have thirty different item ducts side by side to move each possible type of metal ingot, mineral, or partly-processed ore coming out of my ore processor.
Yeah, but nearly all solid objects don't mix into eachother IRL either, so it makes perfect sense that they can pass by in the same pipeline without interference.
That is definitely much more what I'm looking for. I shall have to look at it in the morning when my brain is fresh and not quite so wracked. It looks very much similar to what I was looking for, at least a good component of it, thank you.
I only slightly disagree with your take on industrialization though. I do not attempt to develop single-production line systems, I go for modular, multi-purpose systems when I can.
That argument is imo invalid. If I did a setup (working like a furnace with alembics) with regular fluids and tanks that work like void jars I pretty much guarantee that almost any regular fluid pipe will work. I fact the fluid fuel selection system for my boilers pretty much does that.
Nobody expects all fluids/essentia to go at once, but they should be able to automatically take turns flowing and only gum up if there is nowhere for a certain type to go.
Stated far better then I could. This is the idea I was going for earlier.
I think it's mistreated (or better, misused) mostly because many stop to the "welp can't really use a single pipe anymore" and just stop, not trying to go a little deeper into the functionality and using it as it's meant to be, for industrialization and serialized production of a single chain of production. So it's misunderstood, labelled as "bad", and thus mistreated
It's not simple, and what i did is pushing the system. But it's more powerful than what some player think it is, and almost perfect for the task given.
Mileage may vary, I guess. I've tried using post-revision pipes to manage just a single essentia fractionating column, and I ended up scrapping the rig because it was quicker and easier to just do it by hand than to spend ten minutes running around fiddling with valves and labels and filters and jars every time I want to distill a single handful of items, then transferring essentia because one type got split between two alembics, then shuffling jars some more because after emptying an alembic of one essentia it filled with a different one. And I haven't been able to get golems to work the upper alembics. They end up standing around the apparatus on the ground looking dumb.
I haven't updated to 4.1 on my live server, and most likely won't, to be honest. There's so few players tube lag wasn't ever an issue, and since virtually the only thing anyone is using it for at this point is infusion enchanting, there's little point. I'm the only player on the server who's even tried to do anything with golems at all, and I only used them to manage my netherwart farm, up until my stock of netherwart hit "ludicrous". Then I shut it down.
That argument is imo invalid. If I did a setup (working like a furnace with alembics) with regular fluids and tanks that work like void jars I pretty much guarantee that almost any regular fluid pipe will work. I fact the fluid fuel selection system for my boilers pretty much does that. Nobody expects all fluids/essentia to go at once, but they should be able to automatically take turns flowing and only gum up if there is nowhere for a certain type to go.
Stated far better then I could. This is the idea I was going for earlier.
This is why I offered the essentia router suggestion. I have absolutely no problem with essentia tubes being basically dumb tubes that take one type of essentia from one source to one destination. But a thaumaturge should be able to come up with a better, smarter way to manage the flow of multiple types of essentia from multiple sources to multiple destinations than running back and forth like a crazed monkey frantically fiddling with valves, or relying on mere technology to control the valves. Even if it DOES entail entrusting a delicate, complex filtering operation with highly energetic essentias to a cluster of malevolent, hate-filled undead brains in jars.
So, are staves not supposed to work on the arcane workbench? I'm trying to make a silverwood staff with thaumium caps, but the cost is LUDICROUS! I can only do it with my greatwood staff, but I can't put it in the wand thing. The silverwood wand only holds 100 vis, and using that on the workbench brings it to 110+!
So, are staves not supposed to work on the arcane workbench? I'm trying to make a silverwood staff with thaumium caps, but the cost is LUDICROUS! I can only do it with my greatwood staff, but I can't put it in the wand thing. The silverwood wand only holds 100 vis, and using that on the workbench brings it to 110+!
I might be off the mark here but... are you wearing all the thaumaturge gear? You'll get a discount on vis cost if you are dressed appropriately.
So, are staves not supposed to work on the arcane workbench? I'm trying to make a silverwood staff with thaumium caps, but the cost is LUDICROUS! I can only do it with my greatwood staff, but I can't put it in the wand thing. The silverwood wand only holds 100 vis, and using that on the workbench brings it to 110+!
Staves are too large and unwieldy to use for such precise work needed in an arcane crafting table. While you can make a thaumiom capped silverwood stave using a thaumiom capped silver wood wand while wearing full robes and having the wand equipped with a foci enchanted with frugal three(Any other enchants on the foci will increase the cost). This should make your discount large enough for the craft.
But your not really meant to make a thaumiom capped silver wood or primal staff yet, as Azanor has things planed to make them more possible. Besides, the extra storage should be worth the slight inefficiency.
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Question not the mad-mans ways, for you may begin to see logic in his actions, then find yourself mad as well.
You may call me The Madman, as there is no name that suits me better.
I happen to make modded survival maps, if your interested see my latest: The Asylum
Well, it isn't time or resouce effetiont to make a large system. But if you make a little system to turn cobble stone into perdeto to power an arcane bore, or turning coal into ignus for a furnace and potentia for a thaumostatic harness. If you want something very small automated, the pipes are great.
As for "End-game", thaumcraft isn't the best, but it isn't meant to be. Thaumcraft acts more like a early- mid game mod, helping you get the resources you need for the late game mods like blood magic. But to say everything is pointless in survival, That I have to disagree with. Thaumcraft's arcane bore is useful in place of a buildcraft quarry(Or extra utility's ender quarry) for when you don't have the power supply to support the running of said quarry.(Not to mention the fact that enchantments affect the bore.) The harness is a great way to fly cheaply(All it needs is coal or redstone, the pricy part is making it). Then you have infusion enchanting(Useful at any stage of the game), brain in a jar(XP farms anyone?), The infernal furnace(Closest thing to free you'll find), the elemental tools(A way to find ores, a shovel to make platforms, an axe to cut down huge trees, a hoe that works as bonemeal. What's not to love here?), alumentam(Better then coal, and not very hard to make) , and thaumiom(Better then iron, fairly cheap to make).
So "Useless" doesn't really fit here.
As for your problem trying to run an automated crucible, you could have one pipeline per essentia needed, then you have six sides to send essentia in.(Right click a pipe with a wand to toggle the pipe connection mode. One will be all sides, the other will be only two(The side you place the pipe on will influence the open sides. Also, you don't really need pipes to connect to the auto crucible. Alembics can push essentia strait into the auto crucible without needing pipes.
The main problem comes from pipes having suction even if there is no real need for them to, I have five warded jars in a row connected via one pipeline to five different alembics with each their own essentia inside, logically, I'd want this to empty each alembic one by one, filling a different warded jar with the required essentia. The problem here is that after one alembic is empty and one jar is filled, that jar will still give off suction of the type of essentia it's filled with thus blocking the entire system and unless I add a valve and manually toggle each one as needed this problem will persist.
I tried this, actually, and found that essentia would not pass by a closed valve to get to an open one beyond it on the main feed line. Which meant every valve had to be on its own separate branch off the main line, which required space I didn't have without major reconstruction. Plus, not only is it very hard to tell looking straight on whether a valve is open or closed, but I'd swear valves occasionally open on their own.
If you think of the fluid pipes, then yes they're not really that different. If you're thinking of item pipes like from build crafts logistics expansion or Red Powers pneumatic system then there is precedent for pipes that can handle a lot of different junk moving through them. Either way, since we have filtered pipes at least wouldn't it make sense to be able to send different essentia down a pipe one after the other and have them get filtered out as they move along? If this was realistic fluids we'd have to worry about cross-contamination but this is magical "stuff" and I'd assume that the filtering methods are up to the task.
Well, the filters don't stop essentia from flowing through them. The turn any suction that pass through them into the labeled type. So suction will still be a problem, but if an empty jar is going to be pulling from several sources(Like alembics) then you can guaranty what will come in.(A "Colored" suction should only pull the type they're assigned, but can still interfere with other suctions). They are useful for buffers, and can make bigger systems possible.
You may call me The Madman, as there is no name that suits me better.
I happen to make modded survival maps, if your interested see my latest: The Asylum
Hm... idea. An essentia buffer can hold up to 8 different types of essentia (up to a total of the 8). What if you were to place a few buffers in tandem, and then to a pipe network with labeled warded jars behind valves. Just open the valves based on what you're expecting to be in the buffers and let the jars suck out the essentia one at a time. Then you use a valve to close off the buffers, open up all the warded jars, and another to open up something like that automated alchemy I'm looking forward to playing with?
Not a bad idea. I'd have to subcontract the redstone wiring to someone who actually understands that stuff though. I just might have to settle for a semi-automated system that requires me turning a few valves.
It's less awesome but impractical and more difficult but awesome. You have to really work for what you do, and the rewards are that much the sweeter for it.
Ah, I still don't know much of anything about redstone wiring, timing, clockbuilding, etc. We do have a person who can do that (she built TnT cannons and Redpower flying ships for fun a few servers back) but that's just not my area. I feel a bit more at home with the cables used by the tech mods.
As for why thaumcraft is impractical for me? Entirely the nuance of a large modpack. The only rewards are if you happen to like the idea of the mod in the first place (I love magitech settings), the stuff looks cool, and maybe the odd item or two. If those two lamps I see in the 'nomicon do what I think they do, other people on the server might have a use for them. Stuff like that. The rest of the functionality is overshadowed. As much as I like the native metal clumps, its better to just send the ore through the thermal expansion pulverizer. Faster, easier to set-up and to process 5 stacks of iron/copper/lead/whatever with bonus dusts. By the time I'm done the only real use I'd have for most of these warded jars anyway is probably decoration or maybe 5 stacks of alumentum or the like.
As for the Thaumcraft add-ons, I'll go look for those. As much as I like building complex machines, I much prefer it when the components work on simple principles that are easy to apply to unique set-ups. It almost sounds like Azanor has restricted the operations of Thaumcraft pipes (such as the buffer only adding up to 8) because as others have pointed out they're not originally intended to work for large-scale operations. You're supposed to switch to golems after a certain level of complexity. Though there's probably some mirror universe where Nega-Azanor thinks its absolutely silly to use golem armies for large scale operations and has them nerfed while pipes are less restricted.
No offense intended, it's your world and your play style, but ... I would not want to build anything like that in my world, ever. It offends my engineering sensibilities. I like things elegant and, where appropriate, tucked out of sight. Cables and pipes run inside floors, etc. Hidden circuitry inside single-block-thick walls.
The stuff would get broken down into essentia (or hopefully just disappear if it didn't have any) and the essentia would pass along a small sorting array that would pick out the 6 primals and maybe a few of the most commonly used compounds (for metal transfusion, that sorta thing). The rest would just pass on to a centrifuge or several and get fed back into the loop until it was eventually all processed.
I'm going to go ahead and try to use golems. I was really interested in them a long time ago, maybe I can rekindle that interest.
It's not just the system that's being misunderstood, it's just pipes in general. I also disagree with the system being mistreated. It just (at a glance) a massive beast with pipes and redstone everywhere so something that looks like that can easily discourage people.
I was actually looking for this the other day tbh. Any chance you could upload that world to a file sharing site like mediafire or something? I'd like to take a closer look at it (and see it in action) before I build this in survival. Of course I could always deconstruct it from the screenshots you've provided but it'd be easier just to get an up close look at it.
That is definitely much more what I'm looking for. I shall have to look at it in the morning when my brain is fresh and not quite so wracked. It looks very much similar to what I was looking for, at least a good component of it, thank you.
I only slightly disagree with your take on industrialization though. I do not attempt to develop single-production line systems, I go for modular, multi-purpose systems when I can.
Stated far better then I could. This is the idea I was going for earlier.
I haven't updated to 4.1 on my live server, and most likely won't, to be honest. There's so few players tube lag wasn't ever an issue, and since virtually the only thing anyone is using it for at this point is infusion enchanting, there's little point. I'm the only player on the server who's even tried to do anything with golems at all, and I only used them to manage my netherwart farm, up until my stock of netherwart hit "ludicrous". Then I shut it down.
...Hey, what could possibly go wrong?
I might be off the mark here but... are you wearing all the thaumaturge gear? You'll get a discount on vis cost if you are dressed appropriately.
But your not really meant to make a thaumiom capped silver wood or primal staff yet, as Azanor has things planed to make them more possible. Besides, the extra storage should be worth the slight inefficiency.
You may call me The Madman, as there is no name that suits me better.
I happen to make modded survival maps, if your interested see my latest: The Asylum
As for "End-game", thaumcraft isn't the best, but it isn't meant to be. Thaumcraft acts more like a early- mid game mod, helping you get the resources you need for the late game mods like blood magic. But to say everything is pointless in survival, That I have to disagree with. Thaumcraft's arcane bore is useful in place of a buildcraft quarry(Or extra utility's ender quarry) for when you don't have the power supply to support the running of said quarry.(Not to mention the fact that enchantments affect the bore.) The harness is a great way to fly cheaply(All it needs is coal or redstone, the pricy part is making it). Then you have infusion enchanting(Useful at any stage of the game), brain in a jar(XP farms anyone?), The infernal furnace(Closest thing to free you'll find), the elemental tools(A way to find ores, a shovel to make platforms, an axe to cut down huge trees, a hoe that works as bonemeal. What's not to love here?), alumentam(Better then coal, and not very hard to make) , and thaumiom(Better then iron, fairly cheap to make).
So "Useless" doesn't really fit here.
As for your problem trying to run an automated crucible, you could have one pipeline per essentia needed, then you have six sides to send essentia in.(Right click a pipe with a wand to toggle the pipe connection mode. One will be all sides, the other will be only two(The side you place the pipe on will influence the open sides. Also, you don't really need pipes to connect to the auto crucible. Alembics can push essentia strait into the auto crucible without needing pipes.
You may call me The Madman, as there is no name that suits me better.
I happen to make modded survival maps, if your interested see my latest: The Asylum