We can still speculate, not "suggest" mind you, but guessing where FC might take sheep/wool and spider/string mechanics is interesting. For example, string is used for creating three things; fishing rods, bows, and wool blocks. So far, all of which could be easily placed in other tech trees or are simply redundant. Fishing rods and bows are the only two things worth making from string and I get the feeling that hemp fibres could make a natural substitute in both recipies. It's likely that the string-to-wool recipie was included as a way for Notch to give excess string a continued purpose but if that's true, then that's just lazy gameplay design. All-in-all, string really has very little purpose in the game right now.
Negative aspects aside, what makes string interesting? It's potentially much stronger than hemp fibres. It also might have sticky properties. Maybe it can be boiled down into a variety of glue? That would only reduce the value of slimes and slimeballs however. It's a tricky problem and one I don't have an answer for.
Yeah, I largely agree with you here. Balancing food sources is just not in any way a priority for me given their incredible abundance in MC, and I've focused more on making chickens valuable with regards to their feathers through changes like the Rotted Arrows.
You'll notice that most of the balancing work I've done with regards to animals has very little to do with food, and has been more along the lines of: cows are for leather, pigs are for Tallow, and chickens are for feathers.
I still need to take care of sheep mind you, as at present their role is almost entirely decorative through wool. A big problem there IMO is spider silk to wool, which is already slated for my chopping block in the near future. Ultimately, it makes sheep entirely redundant late game, and doesn't make a whole lot of intuitive sense to begin with.
Separating the two would allow me to design much clearer uses for both spiders and sheep into the tech tree.
Hm.... You're blowing my mind a bit here... I can't imagine a non-aesthetic motivation for getting colored wool...
As to the food point I suppose that makes sense. If you're going to throw in the towel on making food interesting that the relative viability of chicken vs beef in the early game doesn't matter at all.
the following isn't a suggestion for change, just an impression from a new player.
i like the hardcore chickens much, much more than the vanilla ones. i like that i have to feed them to get eggs, and i like eggs as food (it has always annoyed me that i couldn't cook vanilla eggs). i got off to a slow start because i only had one chicken but i really bonded with louise; it was fun to build the small flock.
but. after being extremely busy establishing wheat/hemp farms and livestock breeding (everything is still manual because that's where my game character's mind is at for now; he doesn't know that much yet), i find that i am not using the chickens at all, because i have plenty of food from the pigs and cows (and the mushroom cave), and in comparison the chickens are a pain because i feed them and then they take their sweet time to lay eggs, and i am always away because watching chickens is just not all that exciting, and louise is a serial cheater who doesn't really love me. i know i could automate, and some time down the road i will. i do not use the wiki, because i get a lot of enjoyment out of figuring out how to build things myself. but as it stands, there is no need to automate my chicken farm, because i have a surplus of food from other sources.
i am a lot more interested in dynamic balance than in things being easy or hard per se. IMO breeding of pigs and cows is not in balance with hardcore chickens. pigs/cows don't take as long to pop out offspring as the chickens do with their eggs, and those are not even guaranteed offspring, while pigs/cows/sheep always give instant birth to a healthy baby, which grows up insanely fast. it'd be better if they gestated for a while and had the occasional miscarriage (which might even kill the one popping out the kid). they also drop a lot of food at once, and it's high-protein food (gives more health than eggs). oh, and sheep regrow their wool too fast -- i have 16 sheep and by the time i've shorn them all, at least one has already regrown (these are vanilla MC issues, of course).
as soon as one has a full field (9x9 with 1 water in the middle) of wheat and hemp each, and a corral of pigs and cows, one seems set for life, even without automation. hemp takes a while to get started, but then it'll regrow from ... 8th? stage in no time flat. i keep pondering how to stretch that out. maybe i shouldn't allow hemp to regrow, but pretend it has to be reseeded -- that would also encourage me to work on automation.
now that i've figured out how to build a windmill, i won't even get hungry that quickly -- i really liked how much working the hand crank drained my energy. almost as bad as real life ;).
why cant I get this mod to work in multi mc I wish I could get it to work it sounds really fun
The way the mod is packaged in the download is not set up for direct MultiMC use. You need to take the contents of the MINECRAFT (or is it MINECRAFT-JAR?) folder and place those in a separate zip file, then used the zip file you created in MultiMC.
And FC, awfulcopter is right. You posted a mod publicly on a discussion forum, part of maintaining a mod involves dealing with suggestions and criticism. You lack an professionalism in your replies, but given what I have seen of various big-name modders in Minecraft you aren't the only one that acts like that.
And despite how much you hate unsolicited suggestions, I'm about to offer one. Spawn placement on world creation. You ever start right next to a village? Makes the game extremely easy at the start. Free shelter, free crops already planted (since the new snapshots have carrots/potatoes in addition to wheat), and if you are lucky a blacksmith with iron tools/gear and ingots. My suggestion would be to see if there is a way to check distances to the nearest village, and have the spawn location be forced to pick an area that is at least 1,000 blocks from the nearest village (if testing makes it take too long to create a world, drop the limit to like 500).
As to the food point I suppose that makes sense. If you're going to throw in the towel on making food interesting that the relative viability of chicken vs beef in the early game doesn't matter at all.
Well, I dunno if I'm giving up on it entirely, or rather just leaving it for another day. There's obviously a lot of other things I want to address, and I don't want to go off on yet another tangent with food
For the sake of discussion though, I think this once again comes back to the furnace being too early in the tech tree and way too easy to make. Also, there's really no "hunter gatherer" portion of the vMC tech-tree, so some of the things you were suggesting to make wheat more palatable as a food source and such, I think would feel distinctly unnatural.
We basically jump straight to domesticated animals and farming right from the get go upon entering the game.
I think to do things "right" and make food a really interesting part of the game would require a heck of a lot of work on the early tech-tree, and I don't think it's something that has an "easy fix".
Anyways, personally I'm a little mystified as to why hunger was included in the game when it was, and then was basically blasted out of existence by update after update of alternative food sources. Actually, mystified isn't the right word, as I know exactly why it happened, I just don't like it
And despite how much you hate unsolicited suggestions, I'm about to offer one. Spawn placement on world creation. You ever start right next to a village? Makes the game extremely easy at the start. Free shelter, free crops already planted (since the new snapshots have carrots/potatoes in addition to wheat), and if you are lucky a blacksmith with iron tools/gear and ingots. My suggestion would be to see if there is a way to check distances to the nearest village, and have the spawn location be forced to pick an area that is at least 1,000 blocks from the nearest village (if testing makes it take too long to create a world, drop the limit to like 500).
Wouldn't that get rid of the fun of finding a village though?
Wouldn't that get rid of the fun of finding a village though?
Fun in finding a village is more for the trading (and the addition of exp from villagers in BTW). Finding one right next to your spawn point that is full of iron goodies, furnaces, and overflowing with foodstuffs really takes any challenge out of finding your own location to start a base from scratch. They are still great for founding secondary bases, but it kind of kills it for the first/primary base that you make (my opinion at least).
Fun in finding a village is more for the trading (and the addition of exp from villagers in BTW). Finding one right next to your spawn point that is full of iron goodies, furnaces, and overflowing with foodstuffs really takes any challenge out of finding your own location to start a base from scratch. They are still great for founding secondary bases, but it kind of kills it for the first/primary base that you make (my opinion at least).
Yup, I agree with you there, but your suggestion is irrelevant due to you not being aware of the plans I have for villagers. As I mentioned on the BTW forums, I'm basically planning on completely reworking them and the above won't be an issue as a result.
All forums have rules against flaming and trolling, which is exactly what you do when you tell someone "you're idea is stupid", "you're an idiot", "n00b", etc. All it would take is someone to start reporting posts made like that and then warnings add up. You can say an idea is not good and say why, or you can just ignore it. There is no reason to insult other people just because they don't agree with you.
Report if you like man. This thread is already heavily moderated so the way I respond to posts is already known to those running the forums, and I am also well aware of the forum rules and always attempt to stay within them.
Yup, I agree with you there, but your suggestion is irrelevant due to you not being aware of the plans I have for villagers. As I mentioned on the BTW forums, I'm basically planning on completely reworking them and the above won't be an issue as a result.
Report if you like man. This thread is already heavily moderated so the way I respond to posts is already known to those running the forums, and I am also well aware of the forum rules and always attempt to stay within them.
Ok, it was just something that came up when I started a new world the other week. And since I refuse to go to forums where the mod author bans on a whim, I wouldn't have seen that. I'll trust your judgement as the majority of your mod content is great, my issues are with certain aesthetic choices you spend "10min" or "hours and hours" doing that don't impact gameplay and require a certain sense of humor to appreciate. {edit: you were right )
Also, I couldn't be bothered with reporting. In fact, the only reason I was posting was because someone had an issue with MultiMC that I could help with, and I figured another attempt to reason with you about being more considerate to other opinions wouldn't hurt anyone.
You ask for donations. Although that doesn't implicitly obligate you to a certain standard of behavior, you should at least consider it. You get nothing tangible from being rude except fewer donations.
I've donated twice to the mod, not because I was asked to, but because, on both occasions, FC had just done something to the mod or the underlying vMC that impressed me (a broke, nicotine-addicted college student) enough to give up two packs of smokes or a weekend worth of beer. If FC was some lame idiot who took any suggestion that some random 12 year old came up with off the top of his head, the mod would frankly suck, I wouldn't like him or respect him as I currently do, and he never would have earned my donations. I think that the vast majority of those who have donated would agree with this. He doesn't need our money. But sometimes, when he impresses one of us or we're feeling particularly appreciative of having a huge expansion of Minecraft to sink some gaming time into, we decide to buy him a drink.
FC is a professional game designer with years of experience, probably more years than most of the people complaining about his attitude have spent alive. His ideas on game design are clearly espoused to anyone who takes 15 minutes to read through some of his posts. And, as he has stated multiple times, he neither wants nor likes suggestions.
Why, then, would it be a surprise to anyone at all that he doesn't respond to them like a kindergarten teacher trying to explain something to a particularly stupid student? If you find FC so hard to deal with, what are you doing in this thread? No one is forcing you to be here, and there's not some moral obligation for you to engage in a flamewar just because you think someone's being mean. No one is forcing you to play BTW. No one held a gun to your head and made you install it, and no one's promising to murder your family if you dare to uninstall it. Don't like FC? Deal with it, and if you can't, then maybe you aren't the target audience for this mod and should move to something simpler, like maybe one of the myriad and wonderful "obsidian pick mods."
The BTW community has been spoiled by FC with an incredibly high standard of quality, a skilled eye for game design, fast, efficient updates, and a huge investment of time we all get to enjoy free of charge.
Of course the members get zealous about defending their mod. We love it, and we've seen the SAME discussions over and over, started by people who seem to think they're some wunderkind of game ideas thinking of something so revolutionary that FC (again, professional game designer with years of experience) hadn't thought of himself.
Also, to anyone versed in the mod, a lot of these ideas are in clear conflict with the way things are meant to be. The mod caters to those who want to think, to have trial and error, to work for their rewards. AThis, for many of us, was the reason we fell in love with MC in the beginning. The Zero Punctuation review on MC sums this up nicely, and many of us feel that some of the recent changes to MC negate many of the things we liked that Yahtzee mentioned.
So we're already hostile, since the person with the suggestion seems to not even have taken the time to try to understand why things might be the way they are. Then, when the crappiness of the idea is explained (albeit not so nicely) we have to read through 5 pages of some idiot defending his ideas just to check if sarg's posted any updates about the btw forum's status.
Your ideas are not special. You are not special (not you specifically, awfulcopter, you in this case is general and plural). Please, for the love of god, leave the game design to our resident game designer. If the thought of never seeing your idea in MC is really causing you to lose sleep, I can recommend some great books on Java 7.
If you can't be bothered with reporting rule-breaking behavior to the moderators when you encounter it, and are bothered by it - and I would suppose you were bothered by it by the sheer fact you have bothered to post about it at length more than once - then you have no one to blame but yourself when the forums are full of people sharing their opinions in ways you don't like, or consider rule-breaking. That is the entire point of a report button, it is anonymous when you report, and it takes all of three seconds. When I find something/someone I legitimately believe to be trolling or flame-baiting, I just click that little report button on the post, say "User is trolling." or "User is flame baiting." and go from there. It gets the moderator's attention, and lately they've been very good about taking care of the rest.
What I want to know is, though, why is it a mod maker's responsibility to deal with suggestions or criticisms? FlowerChild does not make the mod for us. Our enjoyment is not what he is after. He is not here to serve our wants. Being one of the Flying Turtles from the Better than Wolves forum, I feel confident in saying that FlowerChild makes this mod purely from the enjoyment he takes in its creation, and playing it himself. Now the mod, already being in existence, is getting a few extra miles by being publicly available. Our sharing the enjoyment is nice - but hardly important. I don't understand why, in this circumstance, people feel entitled to have a hand in creation as if they owned it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
She who Bring the Doom and Cuteness. I livestream! twitch.tv/morvelaira
This kitten is traumatized by stupid. Please stop abusing the kitten.
Ok, it was just something that came up when I started a new world the other week. And since I refuse to go to forums where the mod author bans on a whim, I wouldn't have seen that. I'll trust your judgement as the majority of your mod content is great, my issues are with certain aesthetic choices you spend "10min" or "hours and hours" doing that don't impact gameplay and require a certain sense of humor to appreciate. {edit: you were right )
It's wise not to join the BTW forums man, as by this point, I'd ban you on sight
This thread serves for public discussion. The BTW forums on the other hand are what I consider my way of staying in contact with the core members of the community. As such, I don't want to deal with the chaos that typifies MCF when I am there, so I make absolutely no apologies for restricting membership to people that I want to talk to on a daily basis. There are far too many people playing this mod for me to be in constant communication with everyone, as I think is demonstrated by the current state of this thread when the forums are not available.
As I said though, I do agree with you about villages potentially spoiling the early game. I've actually ranted about it on more than one occasion as the responsible features (like blacksmith chests) got added into MC. As I said though, I already have plans in place to address that.
Quote from ChE_clarinetist »
Also, I couldn't be bothered with reporting. In fact, the only reason I was posting was because someone had an issue with MultiMC that I could help with, and I figured another attempt to reason with you about being more considerate to other opinions wouldn't hurt anyone.
It won't help (I've been at this a year and a half and my attitude with the public has remained largely unchanged other than me becoming more ornery due to volume and repetition) and just further serves to disrupt the thread at a time when it is experiencing a very heavy volume of traffic due to the BTW forums being temporarily out of action. I know you aren't doing this, but there are definitely people here right now that have spotted that as an opportunity for some trolling.
As such, you are effectively just adding more fuel to the fire here, even if your intentions are good.
I have nothing new to add here other than thanks for the entertainment and I cant wait for BTW forums to come back up, so I can return to the relatively mature group I've become accustomed to.
The rinse and repeat cycle here is the main reason I rarely come to these forums anymore. Whenever I visit this thread it's always the same flame/troll bs over and over.
It's honestly not normally this bad anymore. The moderators have been doing a great job as of late in keeping things reasonable on the thread, and it's been a far cry from the old "wild west" days as a result.
The thread basically had to police itself in the past, which inevitably lead to mass chaos, but that's really not the case anymore.
As I mentioned above, it's just a bit of a mess right now because the entire BTW community is being channeled into this one thread due to the temporary absence of the BTW forums.
On topic with BTW, FC awesome changes to enderman behaviour. +1
Thanks man! Next step: implement the intended use of the material that can now be reliably harvested as a result of those changes
I've just got way more ideas than I have times to implement these days. When I finally pulled my own gloves off with regards to modifying vMC behavior, it really opened up Pandora's box for me and I've got note-pads filling up with my plans far faster than I have time to put them into effect. It's pretty typical for me these days where my next task is almost inevitably replaced with another idea that I deem of higher priority
Ok so you made a suggestion. So far the mod author disagrees and much of the community has responded with the knee jerk , "Oh look same old suggestions, try something original" Frankly if you hd read all the pages you would have seen that the first 1-2 times a suggestion was made it was met with polite criticism for the most part. Responses started getting more abrupt as the suggestion was made again and again. Even though some of your suggestions pertain to reasonably new stuff, they are still suggestions that have been made repeatedly in the last few weeks. Nagging is annoying even when coming from a new person.
While I agree with this for the most part, there has always been the ideas of "read the last three pages and use the search function". But one should always try to be nice to others and treat them with respect even if they do something wrong. Treating every new person the same and being respectful is something to strive for. If you do not then the all you do is come across was a jerk to the ones that you are short with.
Your opinion on the manners of this corner of the internet are somewhat faulty . You will find if you go to foreign countries that different cultures have different opinions on manners and acceptable behaviors. What is polite in one country might be a deadly insult in another.
I'm sorry but this is more wrong then right. Yes, different countries/cultures can have different standards, but societies have all also developed with similarities, things that are needed in any civilization to function. Walking to anyone anywhere and punching them or calling them and idiot is more or less going to generate the same response.
You have stumbled upon a corner of the internet where people are very blunt and do not bother to use the socially acceptable form of lying known as tact. If this causes feelings to get a little trampled most of us do not care. Adults should be able to take honesty without a soft candy coated shell of tact. The fact that many can't is a failure of society. Frankly I and I assume many others here would rather be told our ideas suck bluntly then have others tip toe and beat around the bushes sparing our "feelings"
Your definition of tact is grossly inaccurate. The relevant definition here is: "A keen sense of what to do or say in order to maintain good relations with others or avoid offense." (merriam-webster.com) It is not lying per say, it is more inline of knowing how to word things in a way that is not a slap in the face to the other party. I first and foremost prefer someone to tell me the truth as opposed to a lie, but that is no excuse to be disrespectful and automatically jump to the harshest way to tell the truth. You can tell the truth and still be civilized. What you said is just a cop out to be a jerk.
Incredibly blunt untactful comments are in fact good manners in this corner of the internet. We are also not entirely concerned with feelings. Many of us frankly don't care about the feelings of perfect strangers.
This is a case where it is a good thing that this is on the internet. Any community the functioned like this would most likely have many knockdown drag outs. You can't just ignore feelings, everyone has them and not caring is the worst response anyone could have, especially if they are a stranger. Everyone you know was a stranger to you at one point or another, and you are stranger to most people. How would you like it if people treated you badly and without respect, without even knowing you.
You would hardly go to a foreign country and tell them their manners are wrong based on your home country. I recommend you treat this area as a foreign country and stop trying to apply the rules of "polite behavior" used elsewhere.
Your right you would not. But, this is not a foreign country, this is a multinational forum on the internet. There are some forms of behavior that are universal, not walking up to someone and punching them or calling them and idiot for example. Again what you have offered here is a jerks cop out.
Regardless of where you live, there is the common thread of respect. I consider lying disrespectful, but so is being unnecessarily blunt. People should strive to always tell the truth, but there are ways to do it graciously. While I would rather someone tell me the truth, I would also prefer them to do it kindly, and I think most people would say the same thing.
PS: This has not been in any way a defense of Maximo_Artorio. I see and agree that his ideas are impractical/do not fit/not asked for. This was purely in response to jadedcat's post which rubbed me the wrong way enough to interject.
But one should always try to be nice to others and treat them with respect even if they do something wrong.
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Quote from The_Arcanian »
People should strive to always tell the truth, but there are ways to do it graciously.
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Quote from The_Arcanian »
But one should always try to be nice to others and treat them with respect even if they do something wrong.
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Quote from The_Arcanian »
Treating every new person the same and being respectful is something to strive for.
Ok man, I think your argument above basically comes down to a series of these kinds of truisms, that can be easily refuted by just saying "I disagree".
Each of the above statements is a matter of opinion that has no basis in fact, but they are each stated as fact. Putting up a *huge* post laying them all out is once again only adding fuel to the fire, and is entirely unrelated to the mod.
I'd ask you to please not do this kind of thing. The thread has enough problems already, and if that post doesn't spiral into at least a minor flame war, I'll be very surprised.
Negative aspects aside, what makes string interesting? It's potentially much stronger than hemp fibres. It also might have sticky properties. Maybe it can be boiled down into a variety of glue? That would only reduce the value of slimes and slimeballs however. It's a tricky problem and one I don't have an answer for.
Yeah, if you want a mod installer, MCPatcher is the way to go. MultiMC's had problems with better than wolves and SMP for me.
Hm.... You're blowing my mind a bit here... I can't imagine a non-aesthetic motivation for getting colored wool...
As to the food point I suppose that makes sense. If you're going to throw in the towel on making food interesting that the relative viability of chicken vs beef in the early game doesn't matter at all.
i like the hardcore chickens much, much more than the vanilla ones. i like that i have to feed them to get eggs, and i like eggs as food (it has always annoyed me that i couldn't cook vanilla eggs). i got off to a slow start because i only had one chicken
but i really bonded with louise; it was fun to build the small flock.but. after being extremely busy establishing wheat/hemp farms and livestock breeding (everything is still manual because that's where my game character's mind is at for now; he doesn't know that much yet), i find that i am not using the chickens at all, because i have plenty of food from the pigs and cows (and the mushroom cave), and in comparison the chickens are a pain because i feed them and then they take their sweet time to lay eggs, and i am always away because watching chickens is just not all that exciting
, and louise is a serial cheater who doesn't really love me. i know i could automate, and some time down the road i will. i do not use the wiki, because i get a lot of enjoyment out of figuring out how to build things myself. but as it stands, there is no need to automate my chicken farm, because i have a surplus of food from other sources.i am a lot more interested in dynamic balance than in things being easy or hard per se. IMO breeding of pigs and cows is not in balance with hardcore chickens. pigs/cows don't take as long to pop out offspring as the chickens do with their eggs, and those are not even guaranteed offspring, while pigs/cows/sheep always give instant birth to a healthy baby, which grows up insanely fast. it'd be better if they gestated for a while and had the occasional miscarriage (which might even kill the one popping out the kid). they also drop a lot of food at once, and it's high-protein food (gives more health than eggs). oh, and sheep regrow their wool too fast -- i have 16 sheep and by the time i've shorn them all, at least one has already regrown (these are vanilla MC issues, of course).
as soon as one has a full field (9x9 with 1 water in the middle) of wheat and hemp each, and a corral of pigs and cows, one seems set for life, even without automation. hemp takes a while to get started, but then it'll regrow from ... 8th? stage in no time flat. i keep pondering how to stretch that out. maybe i shouldn't allow hemp to regrow, but pretend it has to be reseeded -- that would also encourage me to work on automation.
now that i've figured out how to build a windmill, i won't even get hungry that quickly -- i really liked how much working the hand crank drained my energy. almost as bad as real life ;).
The way the mod is packaged in the download is not set up for direct MultiMC use. You need to take the contents of the MINECRAFT (or is it MINECRAFT-JAR?) folder and place those in a separate zip file, then used the zip file you created in MultiMC.
And FC, awfulcopter is right. You posted a mod publicly on a discussion forum, part of maintaining a mod involves dealing with suggestions and criticism. You lack an professionalism in your replies, but given what I have seen of various big-name modders in Minecraft you aren't the only one that acts like that.
And despite how much you hate unsolicited suggestions, I'm about to offer one. Spawn placement on world creation. You ever start right next to a village? Makes the game extremely easy at the start. Free shelter, free crops already planted (since the new snapshots have carrots/potatoes in addition to wheat), and if you are lucky a blacksmith with iron tools/gear and ingots. My suggestion would be to see if there is a way to check distances to the nearest village, and have the spawn location be forced to pick an area that is at least 1,000 blocks from the nearest village (if testing makes it take too long to create a world, drop the limit to like 500).
Minecart with a Chest can move from place to place. I guess that was designed differently and specifically?
Well, I dunno if I'm giving up on it entirely, or rather just leaving it for another day. There's obviously a lot of other things I want to address, and I don't want to go off on yet another tangent with food
For the sake of discussion though, I think this once again comes back to the furnace being too early in the tech tree and way too easy to make. Also, there's really no "hunter gatherer" portion of the vMC tech-tree, so some of the things you were suggesting to make wheat more palatable as a food source and such, I think would feel distinctly unnatural.
We basically jump straight to domesticated animals and farming right from the get go upon entering the game.
I think to do things "right" and make food a really interesting part of the game would require a heck of a lot of work on the early tech-tree, and I don't think it's something that has an "easy fix".
Anyways, personally I'm a little mystified as to why hunger was included in the game when it was, and then was basically blasted out of existence by update after update of alternative food sources. Actually, mystified isn't the right word, as I know exactly why it happened, I just don't like it
Wouldn't that get rid of the fun of finding a village though?
Fun in finding a village is more for the trading (and the addition of exp from villagers in BTW). Finding one right next to your spawn point that is full of iron goodies, furnaces, and overflowing with foodstuffs really takes any challenge out of finding your own location to start a base from scratch. They are still great for founding secondary bases, but it kind of kills it for the first/primary base that you make (my opinion at least).
Yup, I agree with you there, but your suggestion is irrelevant due to you not being aware of the plans I have for villagers. As I mentioned on the BTW forums, I'm basically planning on completely reworking them and the above won't be an issue as a result.
Report if you like man. This thread is already heavily moderated so the way I respond to posts is already known to those running the forums, and I am also well aware of the forum rules and always attempt to stay within them.
Ok, it was just something that came up when I started a new world the other week. And since I refuse to go to forums where the mod author bans on a whim, I wouldn't have seen that. I'll trust your judgement as the majority of your mod content is great, my issues are with certain aesthetic choices you spend "10min" or "hours and hours" doing that don't impact gameplay and require a certain sense of humor to appreciate. {edit: you were right
Also, I couldn't be bothered with reporting. In fact, the only reason I was posting was because someone had an issue with MultiMC that I could help with, and I figured another attempt to reason with you about being more considerate to other opinions wouldn't hurt anyone.
I've donated twice to the mod, not because I was asked to, but because, on both occasions, FC had just done something to the mod or the underlying vMC that impressed me (a broke, nicotine-addicted college student) enough to give up two packs of smokes or a weekend worth of beer. If FC was some lame idiot who took any suggestion that some random 12 year old came up with off the top of his head, the mod would frankly suck, I wouldn't like him or respect him as I currently do, and he never would have earned my donations. I think that the vast majority of those who have donated would agree with this. He doesn't need our money. But sometimes, when he impresses one of us or we're feeling particularly appreciative of having a huge expansion of Minecraft to sink some gaming time into, we decide to buy him a drink.
FC is a professional game designer with years of experience, probably more years than most of the people complaining about his attitude have spent alive. His ideas on game design are clearly espoused to anyone who takes 15 minutes to read through some of his posts. And, as he has stated multiple times, he neither wants nor likes suggestions.
Why, then, would it be a surprise to anyone at all that he doesn't respond to them like a kindergarten teacher trying to explain something to a particularly stupid student? If you find FC so hard to deal with, what are you doing in this thread? No one is forcing you to be here, and there's not some moral obligation for you to engage in a flamewar just because you think someone's being mean. No one is forcing you to play BTW. No one held a gun to your head and made you install it, and no one's promising to murder your family if you dare to uninstall it. Don't like FC? Deal with it, and if you can't, then maybe you aren't the target audience for this mod and should move to something simpler, like maybe one of the myriad and wonderful "obsidian pick mods."
The BTW community has been spoiled by FC with an incredibly high standard of quality, a skilled eye for game design, fast, efficient updates, and a huge investment of time we all get to enjoy free of charge.
Of course the members get zealous about defending their mod. We love it, and we've seen the SAME discussions over and over, started by people who seem to think they're some wunderkind of game ideas thinking of something so revolutionary that FC (again, professional game designer with years of experience) hadn't thought of himself.
Also, to anyone versed in the mod, a lot of these ideas are in clear conflict with the way things are meant to be. The mod caters to those who want to think, to have trial and error, to work for their rewards. AThis, for many of us, was the reason we fell in love with MC in the beginning. The Zero Punctuation review on MC sums this up nicely, and many of us feel that some of the recent changes to MC negate many of the things we liked that Yahtzee mentioned.
So we're already hostile, since the person with the suggestion seems to not even have taken the time to try to understand why things might be the way they are. Then, when the crappiness of the idea is explained (albeit not so nicely) we have to read through 5 pages of some idiot defending his ideas just to check if sarg's posted any updates about the btw forum's status.
Your ideas are not special. You are not special (not you specifically, awfulcopter, you in this case is general and plural). Please, for the love of god, leave the game design to our resident game designer. If the thought of never seeing your idea in MC is really causing you to lose sleep, I can recommend some great books on Java 7.
What I want to know is, though, why is it a mod maker's responsibility to deal with suggestions or criticisms? FlowerChild does not make the mod for us. Our enjoyment is not what he is after. He is not here to serve our wants. Being one of the Flying Turtles from the Better than Wolves forum, I feel confident in saying that FlowerChild makes this mod purely from the enjoyment he takes in its creation, and playing it himself. Now the mod, already being in existence, is getting a few extra miles by being publicly available. Our sharing the enjoyment is nice - but hardly important. I don't understand why, in this circumstance, people feel entitled to have a hand in creation as if they owned it.
This kitten is traumatized by stupid. Please stop abusing the kitten.
It's wise not to join the BTW forums man, as by this point, I'd ban you on sight
This thread serves for public discussion. The BTW forums on the other hand are what I consider my way of staying in contact with the core members of the community. As such, I don't want to deal with the chaos that typifies MCF when I am there, so I make absolutely no apologies for restricting membership to people that I want to talk to on a daily basis. There are far too many people playing this mod for me to be in constant communication with everyone, as I think is demonstrated by the current state of this thread when the forums are not available.
As I said though, I do agree with you about villages potentially spoiling the early game. I've actually ranted about it on more than one occasion as the responsible features (like blacksmith chests) got added into MC. As I said though, I already have plans in place to address that.
It won't help (I've been at this a year and a half and my attitude with the public has remained largely unchanged other than me becoming more ornery due to volume and repetition) and just further serves to disrupt the thread at a time when it is experiencing a very heavy volume of traffic due to the BTW forums being temporarily out of action. I know you aren't doing this, but there are definitely people here right now that have spotted that as an opportunity for some trolling.
As such, you are effectively just adding more fuel to the fire here, even if your intentions are good.
It's honestly not normally this bad anymore. The moderators have been doing a great job as of late in keeping things reasonable on the thread, and it's been a far cry from the old "wild west" days as a result.
The thread basically had to police itself in the past, which inevitably lead to mass chaos, but that's really not the case anymore.
As I mentioned above, it's just a bit of a mess right now because the entire BTW community is being channeled into this one thread due to the temporary absence of the BTW forums.
Thanks man! Next step: implement the intended use of the material that can now be reliably harvested as a result of those changes
I've just got way more ideas than I have times to implement these days. When I finally pulled my own gloves off with regards to modifying vMC behavior, it really opened up Pandora's box for me and I've got note-pads filling up with my plans far faster than I have time to put them into effect. It's pretty typical for me these days where my next task is almost inevitably replaced with another idea that I deem of higher priority
While I agree with this for the most part, there has always been the ideas of "read the last three pages and use the search function". But one should always try to be nice to others and treat them with respect even if they do something wrong. Treating every new person the same and being respectful is something to strive for. If you do not then the all you do is come across was a jerk to the ones that you are short with.
I'm sorry but this is more wrong then right. Yes, different countries/cultures can have different standards, but societies have all also developed with similarities, things that are needed in any civilization to function. Walking to anyone anywhere and punching them or calling them and idiot is more or less going to generate the same response.
Your definition of tact is grossly inaccurate. The relevant definition here is: "A keen sense of what to do or say in order to maintain good relations with others or avoid offense." (merriam-webster.com) It is not lying per say, it is more inline of knowing how to word things in a way that is not a slap in the face to the other party. I first and foremost prefer someone to tell me the truth as opposed to a lie, but that is no excuse to be disrespectful and automatically jump to the harshest way to tell the truth. You can tell the truth and still be civilized. What you said is just a cop out to be a jerk.
This is a case where it is a good thing that this is on the internet. Any community the functioned like this would most likely have many knockdown drag outs. You can't just ignore feelings, everyone has them and not caring is the worst response anyone could have, especially if they are a stranger. Everyone you know was a stranger to you at one point or another, and you are stranger to most people. How would you like it if people treated you badly and without respect, without even knowing you.
Your right you would not. But, this is not a foreign country, this is a multinational forum on the internet. There are some forms of behavior that are universal, not walking up to someone and punching them or calling them and idiot for example. Again what you have offered here is a jerks cop out.
Regardless of where you live, there is the common thread of respect. I consider lying disrespectful, but so is being unnecessarily blunt. People should strive to always tell the truth, but there are ways to do it graciously. While I would rather someone tell me the truth, I would also prefer them to do it kindly, and I think most people would say the same thing.
PS: This has not been in any way a defense of Maximo_Artorio. I see and agree that his ideas are impractical/do not fit/not asked for. This was purely in response to jadedcat's post which rubbed me the wrong way enough to interject.
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Ok man, I think your argument above basically comes down to a series of these kinds of truisms, that can be easily refuted by just saying "I disagree".
Each of the above statements is a matter of opinion that has no basis in fact, but they are each stated as fact. Putting up a *huge* post laying them all out is once again only adding fuel to the fire, and is entirely unrelated to the mod.
I'd ask you to please not do this kind of thing. The thread has enough problems already, and if that post doesn't spiral into at least a minor flame war, I'll be very surprised.