With the recent changes I'm a bit lost regarding metagame issues like loaded/unloaded chunks and so on... I keep reading on the BTW forum and Discord people talking about "spawn farms", "no-spawn farms", "despawn feeders", etc... It's a bit difficult to follow all the technical tricks and quirks at this stage... Is there any Wiki page or forum post about how chunks load and unload now and how the player can take advantage of that?
With the recent changes I'm a bit lost regarding metagame issues like loaded/unloaded chunks and so on... I keep reading on the BTW forum and Discord people talking about "spawn farms", "no-spawn farms", "despawn feeders", etc... It's a bit difficult to follow all the technical tricks and quirks at this stage... Is there any Wiki page or forum post about how chunks load and unload now and how the player can take advantage of that?
I'd recommend checking out the changelog within the readme for 4.ABCF:dancer::poo::dancer:
I was pretty detailed there in how chunk loading works. It's actually a lot simpler now than in vanilla, behaving largely just like there's a player always standing at original spawn.
I have played your mod for many years now, and really see you as a prime example for well thought out game design. I have stalked your forum, hoping for the next update, holding back all my bad ideas because I do know that you dont appreciate suggestions. And who to blame you, seeing how community suggestions are driving the development of vanilla Minecraft. That being said, Im bursting with suggestions just because I love the game you are creating, and i am really sorry for what i am about to do:
It's regarding the vanilla mechanic for growing cocoa beans. In my opinion the worst crop in any game. I mostly just want to see any change to this mechanic because it just feels bad in my opinion. My take/suggestion on how to maybe improve the system is to change how the crop works entirely. Combining how the bean grows with how vines grow. What I envision is a new vine type that grows slowly, is really a pain to get rid off, and can die. The vine slowly grows on a surface, and when it's fully grown it starts to produce cocoa beans. When the player harvest the cocoa bean the vine stays in place and at some time starts to produce a new cocoa bean. At some stage the vine dies/dries out, so the crop does require some upkeep so that the entire plant doesn't die out. Making the plant a pain to remove may enforce planning where and when to plant it, where one will need a stockpile off stump removers to keep the plant healthy. Maybe even make the plant full of thorns when its dried out just to make it more painful.
Again I do not hope my post have infuriated you in any way. I do really love the work you are doing and am eagerly waiting for any new update you may be working on.
-Added Vegehenna. It's a feature. It's a way of life. It's a revolution. Vegehenna.
-Added Hardcore Weed, Hoes, and Basket Weaving.
-Added Bread Dough as a new item. It is crafted with three Flour and a Bucket of Water, and can be cooked in an oven or kiln to bake bread, replacing cooking flour directly.
-Added new flammable Wicker, Wicker Slab, Wicker Pane, Grate, and Slat blocks. I've split them off from some old combined block ID usage so they should now have more consistent and appropriate behavior overall (step sounds, applicable tools, etc.). All such blocks already in your world will not be affected by this change, and conversion recipes for old to new blocks have been provided for each block type.
-Added Hopper filtering attributes to a bunch of the newer items and blocks that have been added to the mod. I fell a bit behind on those, but they should hopefully all be accurate now.
-Added a more detailed change log for version 4.AFFFFFFF to the readme, which contains more spoilers than the original release.
-Changed Wicker textures to be lower contrast, to look a little more natural.
-Changed hats to be a little easier to wear.
-Changed Pistons to be more resistant to jamming on chunk load. I haven't diagnosed or corrected the underlying vanilla problems, but I put some code in place to check for when they're stuck in an invalid state with an unextended piston base having an extended piston arm, so that they can fix themselves the next time they're updated.
-Changed (reduced) the number of Donuts cooked in the Cauldron at a time from 4 to 2 to balance relative to the new bread recipe.
-Changed (rebalanced) the Cookie Dough recipe to require 4 Flour (plus Chocolate), rather than just 2.
-Changed the Pumpkin pie recipe to require 3 Flour (plus sugar, a whole pumpkin, and an egg) instead of 1.
-Change sheep to breed with Pumpkin Pie rather than cookies.
-Changed (refactored) a bunch of block and item code to clean things up a bit. This mostly had to do with the physical properties of items (and blocks in item form) such as buoyancy and Hopper filtering. The changes to Hopper filtering, and Block Dispenser block placement were particularly extensive so please let me know if you notice any problems there.
-Fixed a problem where Saws were not properly harvesting Vine blocks and other vegetation, and where they would not be appropriately powered if placed directly on a powered Axle.
-Fixed a problem where a large amount of hunger would sometimes be consumed while climbing ladders.
-Removed all modifiers to crop growth based on what blocks neighbor them. These were vanilla modifiers that were never well understood, and which were difficult to intuit, and thus I did not feel they contributed anything positive to gameplay.
Vegehenna and rejoice.
-------------
If you'd like to say thanks for this release and help contribute to the further development of Better Than Wolves, please consider making a donation:
Seeing the new wicker change, have you any plans on changing the mid to late storage game? Personally I really enjoy the early hamper game and the struggle for storage. I tend to feel proud of my storage halls, but the moment i have a saw there is nothing stopping me from tearing previous storage down and replacing it with infinite chests. I would really like to see a change to how OP and plentiful chests are, but that would most likely make all other blocks like cauldrons, hoppers, crucibles and dispensers be OP as well. A nerf to overall sub storage and changes to chests would maybe make hampers and baskets an enjoyable storage option not only before one gets a saw.
Also, although i dont give it much thought since i have played since the chest was a solid block, but most items in Minecraft reflects what materials they are made from. But the chest looks like it is made from materials that does not exist in the game.
Have you changed that at all since then? Is it even possible? Cheers.
Well, the biomes in BTW are a little different from vanilla in that they tend to all have a gameplay role and their own balance going on. So no, additional biomes, or rearranging their layout, doesn't really make much sense within the context of the mod.
Seeing the new wicker change, have you any plans on changing the mid to late storage game?
I do want to revisit the storage progression at some point yes, because as you point out, there's a huge jump between the early game storage options and vanilla storage.
Just changed the link in the OP to a 'b' release which contains the following changes:
-Changed (tweaked) the efficiency of hoes made of different material to be more pronounced.
-Changed the timing on Bellows slightly to make them a little more forgiving.
-Fixed a problem that was causing Bellows to occasionally miss a stroke, which would cause Stoked Fire to randomly die down, and was causing stuff like Kiln cooking to randomly get interrupted. I also applied this same fix to a number of other blocks (both mod and vanilla) that may have had less noticeable forms of it, as it turns out it was a rather obscure general problem with various kinds of block updates. It was just most noticeable with the Bellows and Kiln because of the slower timing.
-Fixed a problem where a detached collision box would remain above tilled earth after it had reverted to regular dirt, under certain circumstances.
-Fixed a problem where Redstone Repeaters were not properly updating their state when placed by a Block Dispenser.
Just hcspawned and found myself surrounded by temples that totally negated any need for storage progression. Have you considered replacing the chests in temples, villages and maybe dungeons as well to hampers? I do enjoy some reward from finding structures, but it just feels like it is diminishing some progression in the mod when it comes with premium storage. Also the ability to move chests with iron axes feels a bit strange since more blocks have become breakable like ovens and the changes to crafting tables. Would like to see more expensive chests that you have to carefully plan where to place. I do like finding minecart chests though since its like a different challenge bringing them back to base.
-Added Hardcore Trim. This means that Shears are now required in order to harvest the top of Hemp plants, without also killing the bottom. Non-player harvesting (Pistons, Block Dispenser, etc.) isn't affected by this, so as to not interfere with existing builds.
-Added Straw as a new item. It is harvested from the bottom block of mature Wheat, and may be fed to cows and sheep.
-Added the ability for playas to enchant hoes.
-Changed Hemp to only drop seeds when the top of the plant is harvested, not the bottom. The texture has also been changed to reflect this.
-Changed Endermen to not be able to teleport onto block types that mobs can't spawn on (eg. wood). Light levels still do not affect this however.
-Changed the Iron, Gold, and Diamond Hoe recipes to consist of 3 Shafts in a vertical line, with a single ingot to the top/side, instead of the two ingots it previously required, to better balance it relative to other tools. The Refined Hoe recipe remains unchanged.
-Changed the Brick Oven to allow the player to add any size fuel (logs, etc.) when it is in the last visible stage of burning down (the non-whole-log texture) to make it a little more user friendly.
-Changed a number of mobs and animals to set fire to other entities that they attack while on fire, similar to how zombies worked previously.
-Changed a few things about how entities are unloaded to hopefully reduce the occurrences of players becoming invisible to each other.
-Changed (reduced) the time it takes to weave Wicker as it was rather excessive when making Hampers.
-Changed (refactored) how tool enchantability works internally to clean up the related code a bit.
-Fixed burning wolves and players dropping cooked instead of burned meat.
-Fixed a problem where Reeds could no longer be placed on blocks diagonal to water.
-Removed the recipe for Grass Planters as they opened up a number of exploits with regards to feeding animals, and they no longer really had an intended purpose within the mod. Such Planters already within your world are unaffected by this change, but new ones may no longer be created.
Boom.
-------------
If you'd like to say thanks for this release and help contribute to the further development of Better Than Wolves, please consider making a donation:
I just changed the download link in the OP to a small "b" release which contains the following changes:
-Added new Wet Brick and Uncooked Nether Brick items as the interaction between the clay ball items being applicable as both mortar and placeable brick blocks was creating unnecessary interface confusion. They're created with a single item of the corresponding type in the crafting grid.
-Changed the various forms of mortar (Clay, Slime, and Nether Sludge) so that it can be applied to blocks regardless of whether you're sneaking or not. Hence the need for the above new items.
-Changed the color of Nether Sludge to help visually differentiate it from Nether Brick.
-Changed Buckets to no longer place as blocks for similar reasons. I need to rework that system before proceeding further as it was way too prone to unintended consequences like accidentally placing buckets in lava while sneaking. Until then, they may still be placed with Block Dispensers if you really feel the need to play with their block form.
-Fixed a duplication exploit with Wicker Slabs.
-Fixed an issue where mobs could spawn on ladders.
-Changed Buckets to no longer place as blocks for similar reasons. I need to rework that system before proceeding further as it was way too prone to unintended consequences like accidentally placing buckets in lava while sneaking. Until then, they may still be placed with Block Dispensers if you really feel the need to play with their block form.
I've been kicked by cows way too often because of the bucket placing mechanic, so thanks!
I was a bit hesitant initially when the change to spawning rules came. But it's actually made the process of creating safe and good looking roofs and bases better. Im really enjoying how the new rules have changed my building style. I tend to avoid using torches to create safe areas because i don't really like how the world looks when there are torches everywhere. Enjoying all the new updates so much. Many thanks fc! I really appreciate the effort you put in to the mod:)
Hey FlowerChild, have you ever thought about adding platform siding or slabs? I know that it's probably not something you will add, but I think it'd be cool for cosmetics and could be used to make things like sleeker elevators/lifts. ALSO, have you ever thought about adding some sort of block that could "rotate" platforms? Rotate as in swing the platform left or right (like a door, or a gate, opening), and up or down (like a trap door, or a bridge)...I hope you understand my similes lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ idk though, just some thoughts I was thinkin with my brain.
Hey FlowerChild, have you ever thought about adding platform siding or slabs? I know that it's probably not something you will add, but I think it'd be cool for cosmetics and could be used to make things like sleeker elevators/lifts.
What about something to help with hardcore spawn? some sort of mechanic similar to finding fortresses in the nether? is there currently anyway to help find original spawn without a compass?
With the recent changes I'm a bit lost regarding metagame issues like loaded/unloaded chunks and so on... I keep reading on the BTW forum and Discord people talking about "spawn farms", "no-spawn farms", "despawn feeders", etc... It's a bit difficult to follow all the technical tricks and quirks at this stage... Is there any Wiki page or forum post about how chunks load and unload now and how the player can take advantage of that?
I'd recommend checking out the changelog within the readme for 4.ABCF:dancer::poo::dancer:
I was pretty detailed there in how chunk loading works. It's actually a lot simpler now than in vanilla, behaving largely just like there's a player always standing at original spawn.
I have played your mod for many years now, and really see you as a prime example for well thought out game design. I have stalked your forum, hoping for the next update, holding back all my bad ideas because I do know that you dont appreciate suggestions. And who to blame you, seeing how community suggestions are driving the development of vanilla Minecraft. That being said, Im bursting with suggestions just because I love the game you are creating, and i am really sorry for what i am about to do:
It's regarding the vanilla mechanic for growing cocoa beans. In my opinion the worst crop in any game. I mostly just want to see any change to this mechanic because it just feels bad in my opinion. My take/suggestion on how to maybe improve the system is to change how the crop works entirely. Combining how the bean grows with how vines grow. What I envision is a new vine type that grows slowly, is really a pain to get rid off, and can die. The vine slowly grows on a surface, and when it's fully grown it starts to produce cocoa beans. When the player harvest the cocoa bean the vine stays in place and at some time starts to produce a new cocoa bean. At some stage the vine dies/dries out, so the crop does require some upkeep so that the entire plant doesn't die out. Making the plant a pain to remove may enforce planning where and when to plant it, where one will need a stockpile off stump removers to keep the plant healthy. Maybe even make the plant full of thorns when its dried out just to make it more painful.
Again I do not hope my post have infuriated you in any way. I do really love the work you are doing and am eagerly waiting for any new update you may be working on.
I agree that cocoa sucks at present. Will likely get to revamping it eventually.
Not interested in specific ideas on how to resolve that though. That's my job
[**** NEW RELEASE ****]
Version 4.B00 of Better Than Wolves is ready for download!
Download Link
This release contains the following changes:
-Added Vegehenna. It's a feature. It's a way of life. It's a revolution. Vegehenna.
-Added Hardcore Weed, Hoes, and Basket Weaving.
-Added Bread Dough as a new item. It is crafted with three Flour and a Bucket of Water, and can be cooked in an oven or kiln to bake bread, replacing cooking flour directly.
-Added new flammable Wicker, Wicker Slab, Wicker Pane, Grate, and Slat blocks. I've split them off from some old combined block ID usage so they should now have more consistent and appropriate behavior overall (step sounds, applicable tools, etc.). All such blocks already in your world will not be affected by this change, and conversion recipes for old to new blocks have been provided for each block type.
-Added Hopper filtering attributes to a bunch of the newer items and blocks that have been added to the mod. I fell a bit behind on those, but they should hopefully all be accurate now.
-Added a more detailed change log for version 4.AFFFFFFF to the readme, which contains more spoilers than the original release.
-Changed Wicker textures to be lower contrast, to look a little more natural.
-Changed hats to be a little easier to wear.
-Changed Pistons to be more resistant to jamming on chunk load. I haven't diagnosed or corrected the underlying vanilla problems, but I put some code in place to check for when they're stuck in an invalid state with an unextended piston base having an extended piston arm, so that they can fix themselves the next time they're updated.
-Changed (reduced) the number of Donuts cooked in the Cauldron at a time from 4 to 2 to balance relative to the new bread recipe.
-Changed (rebalanced) the Cookie Dough recipe to require 4 Flour (plus Chocolate), rather than just 2.
-Changed the Pumpkin pie recipe to require 3 Flour (plus sugar, a whole pumpkin, and an egg) instead of 1.
-Change sheep to breed with Pumpkin Pie rather than cookies.
-Changed (refactored) a bunch of block and item code to clean things up a bit. This mostly had to do with the physical properties of items (and blocks in item form) such as buoyancy and Hopper filtering. The changes to Hopper filtering, and Block Dispenser block placement were particularly extensive so please let me know if you notice any problems there.
-Fixed a problem where Saws were not properly harvesting Vine blocks and other vegetation, and where they would not be appropriately powered if placed directly on a powered Axle.
-Fixed a problem where a large amount of hunger would sometimes be consumed while climbing ladders.
-Removed all modifiers to crop growth based on what blocks neighbor them. These were vanilla modifiers that were never well understood, and which were difficult to intuit, and thus I did not feel they contributed anything positive to gameplay.
Vegehenna and rejoice.
-------------
If you'd like to say thanks for this release and help contribute to the further development of Better Than Wolves, please consider making a donation:
Seeing the new wicker change, have you any plans on changing the mid to late storage game? Personally I really enjoy the early hamper game and the struggle for storage. I tend to feel proud of my storage halls, but the moment i have a saw there is nothing stopping me from tearing previous storage down and replacing it with infinite chests. I would really like to see a change to how OP and plentiful chests are, but that would most likely make all other blocks like cauldrons, hoppers, crucibles and dispensers be OP as well. A nerf to overall sub storage and changes to chests would maybe make hampers and baskets an enjoyable storage option not only before one gets a saw.
Also, although i dont give it much thought since i have played since the chest was a solid block, but most items in Minecraft reflects what materials they are made from. But the chest looks like it is made from materials that does not exist in the game.
Well, the biomes in BTW are a little different from vanilla in that they tend to all have a gameplay role and their own balance going on. So no, additional biomes, or rearranging their layout, doesn't really make much sense within the context of the mod.
I do want to revisit the storage progression at some point yes, because as you point out, there's a huge jump between the early game storage options and vanilla storage.
Just changed the link in the OP to a 'b' release which contains the following changes:
-Changed (tweaked) the efficiency of hoes made of different material to be more pronounced.
-Changed the timing on Bellows slightly to make them a little more forgiving.
-Fixed a problem that was causing Bellows to occasionally miss a stroke, which would cause Stoked Fire to randomly die down, and was causing stuff like Kiln cooking to randomly get interrupted. I also applied this same fix to a number of other blocks (both mod and vanilla) that may have had less noticeable forms of it, as it turns out it was a rather obscure general problem with various kinds of block updates. It was just most noticeable with the Bellows and Kiln because of the slower timing.
-Fixed a problem where a detached collision box would remain above tilled earth after it had reverted to regular dirt, under certain circumstances.
-Fixed a problem where Redstone Repeaters were not properly updating their state when placed by a Block Dispenser.
Just hcspawned and found myself surrounded by temples that totally negated any need for storage progression. Have you considered replacing the chests in temples, villages and maybe dungeons as well to hampers? I do enjoy some reward from finding structures, but it just feels like it is diminishing some progression in the mod when it comes with premium storage. Also the ability to move chests with iron axes feels a bit strange since more blocks have become breakable like ovens and the changes to crafting tables. Would like to see more expensive chests that you have to carefully plan where to place. I do like finding minecart chests though since its like a different challenge bringing them back to base.
Diamond chiseling or sawing tree stumps into chests could be a funny way to force you to plant trees to prepare a storage room hehe
Yeah, I agree they're a bit excessive.
Well, pathfinding is a big part of the gameplay now too, so that's not really a negative.
I understand your desire for aesthetic variety, but that's really not what BTW is about.
Have you considered adding enchants to the hoe now that you have reworked it?
[**** NEW RELEASE ****]
Version 4.B0000001 of Better Than Wolves is ready for download!
Download Link
This release contains the following changes:
-Added Hardcore Trim. This means that Shears are now required in order to harvest the top of Hemp plants, without also killing the bottom. Non-player harvesting (Pistons, Block Dispenser, etc.) isn't affected by this, so as to not interfere with existing builds.
-Added Straw as a new item. It is harvested from the bottom block of mature Wheat, and may be fed to cows and sheep.
-Added the ability for playas to enchant hoes.
-Changed Hemp to only drop seeds when the top of the plant is harvested, not the bottom. The texture has also been changed to reflect this.
-Changed Endermen to not be able to teleport onto block types that mobs can't spawn on (eg. wood). Light levels still do not affect this however.
-Changed the Iron, Gold, and Diamond Hoe recipes to consist of 3 Shafts in a vertical line, with a single ingot to the top/side, instead of the two ingots it previously required, to better balance it relative to other tools. The Refined Hoe recipe remains unchanged.
-Changed the Brick Oven to allow the player to add any size fuel (logs, etc.) when it is in the last visible stage of burning down (the non-whole-log texture) to make it a little more user friendly.
-Changed a number of mobs and animals to set fire to other entities that they attack while on fire, similar to how zombies worked previously.
-Changed a few things about how entities are unloaded to hopefully reduce the occurrences of players becoming invisible to each other.
-Changed (reduced) the time it takes to weave Wicker as it was rather excessive when making Hampers.
-Changed (refactored) how tool enchantability works internally to clean up the related code a bit.
-Fixed burning wolves and players dropping cooked instead of burned meat.
-Fixed a problem where Reeds could no longer be placed on blocks diagonal to water.
-Removed the recipe for Grass Planters as they opened up a number of exploits with regards to feeding animals, and they no longer really had an intended purpose within the mod. Such Planters already within your world are unaffected by this change, but new ones may no longer be created.
Boom.
-------------
If you'd like to say thanks for this release and help contribute to the further development of Better Than Wolves, please consider making a donation:
I just changed the download link in the OP to a small "b" release which contains the following changes:
-Added new Wet Brick and Uncooked Nether Brick items as the interaction between the clay ball items being applicable as both mortar and placeable brick blocks was creating unnecessary interface confusion. They're created with a single item of the corresponding type in the crafting grid.
-Changed the various forms of mortar (Clay, Slime, and Nether Sludge) so that it can be applied to blocks regardless of whether you're sneaking or not. Hence the need for the above new items.
-Changed the color of Nether Sludge to help visually differentiate it from Nether Brick.
-Changed Buckets to no longer place as blocks for similar reasons. I need to rework that system before proceeding further as it was way too prone to unintended consequences like accidentally placing buckets in lava while sneaking. Until then, they may still be placed with Block Dispensers if you really feel the need to play with their block form.
-Fixed a duplication exploit with Wicker Slabs.
-Fixed an issue where mobs could spawn on ladders.
I've been kicked by cows way too often because of the bucket placing mechanic, so thanks!
I was a bit hesitant initially when the change to spawning rules came. But it's actually made the process of creating safe and good looking roofs and bases better. Im really enjoying how the new rules have changed my building style. I tend to avoid using torches to create safe areas because i don't really like how the world looks when there are torches everywhere. Enjoying all the new updates so much. Many thanks fc! I really appreciate the effort you put in to the mod:)
Hey FlowerChild, have you ever thought about adding platform siding or slabs? I know that it's probably not something you will add, but I think it'd be cool for cosmetics and could be used to make things like sleeker elevators/lifts. ALSO, have you ever thought about adding some sort of block that could "rotate" platforms? Rotate as in swing the platform left or right (like a door, or a gate, opening), and up or down (like a trap door, or a bridge)...I hope you understand my similes lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ idk though, just some thoughts I was thinkin with my brain.
Coincidentally, that topic was discussed here:
https://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding-java-edition/minecraft-mods/1272992-better-than-wolves-and-and-and-total-conversion-v4?page=1628#c42708
What about something to help with hardcore spawn? some sort of mechanic similar to finding fortresses in the nether? is there currently anyway to help find original spawn without a compass?
Nope, compass is the only way, as intended. It's not meant to be easy to recover from death.