So, I finally decided to bite the bullet and try to learn worldedit.
First few days weren't fun :-( Spend about 3 hours everyday mainly googling, fixing up scripts that broke and trying to figure out how masks and wands worked.
Right now though, I feel as I've been missing out on so much power. Managed to get so much stuff done today, worledit may actually beat mcedit once you get through it's big commandy learning curve. Maybe. Still hate typing commands all day, but it works I guess :/
Wow, that looks really impressive! The hype is real again.
Figured I'd mention that the newest version release of Terra Restore 2 should be out next Monday. I've been doing version releases with each new intersection (with save world files to pick up where you left off) which has helped the map a lot.
But yeah, maps can definitely take a long time to make, especially if you use lots of command blocks and stick with the normal 16 wools/dungeons.
If the aesthetics can match the innovation of the first map, I'm sure this will be an amazing map. Good luck with release. I haven't seen any pics yet, but your first map was pretty great.
The biggest thing about 1.9 and CTM for me is just the early game. The early game is brutally boring, and with the skeletons it becomes plain out annoying. I really hope there are ways soon, (heck at this point mods would be acceptable) to combat this combat (hehehehe). I see promise in the other features of this update though. I'm excited.
The biggest thing about 1.9 and CTM for me is just the early game. The early game is brutally boring, and with the skeletons it becomes plain out annoying. I really hope there are ways soon, (heck at this point mods would be acceptable) to combat this combat (hehehehe). I see promise in the other features of this update though. I'm excited.
I agree with you. There's a ton of cool things coming with the update, but the combat seems so wonky. I predict a good handful of maps will still be made in 1.8 until everyone figures out how to accommodate the new combat features well.
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There haven't been many screenshots lately, so why the hell not.
A very, veeery long time ago, I posted a picture of an area with a giant tree. I've worked a freaking ton of it since then, and I want to show you...
Soul of the World V1.2!
Any and all feedback is appreciated, specially on how to improve it. Before anything: Yes. It's very green. It's intended to be very green. ;P
Not to be rude, but just as advice since you asked: Add some focus points. There's nothing standing out or that's cool too look at. The area makes for a perfect cool background, but without a castle, city, tower, dungeon, whatever to fill up the area it's not that interesting. The walls are the same everywhere, there's nod depth, nothing to break it up.
"Very green" is an understatement :3
I actually quite like this, but as Rubisk said, focus points are definitely a good thing, and that big frikn tree needs to be lit up in some way because it just looks kinda like a big dark blob.
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I don't care about the Xs. You can call me Navarog. Or Nava if you really want to be a hipster. It's fine.
The early game in 1.9 is far more dangerous and interesting than 1.8 ever was. I hope new maps won't be made in 1.8. Mobs actually have good AI now. Zombies track you from bloody miles and don't give up halfway, skeletons will hunt you down, firing potshots as they track you... To counter a lot of the "boring" elements of the early game, I intend to provide players with resources needed for a good leg up, skipping most of it. That's what I did in my latest minimap.
You need to be fast on your feet to evade enemies and kill them off before they overwhelm you.
Honestly, give mapmaking in 1.9 a try. It is so much better than 1.8. It's like 1.7, but with all the new stuff, and a much- improved combat system. The direct link between food consumption and regeneration is actually quite satisfying for the player, and helps to mitigate the horrible new skeleton AI (which is such a good addition).
Rant about 1.9:
As much as I have to agree that the newer combat is more interesting, I personally hate it. 1.9 added what Chipmunk likes to call "combat lag" which is exactly what it sounds like- slow and obnoxious combat. Oftentimes I would sit and get pelted by mobs while I let my attack meter charge up for another swing, and the weird knockback mechanic that affects mobs around the one that just got hit barely helps the player from getting swarmed, especially in close quartered combat where there is no space to evade the mobs. Not to mention, the heart 'particles' that fly out of the mob that gets hit is, to be frank, completely stupid and unnecessary.
And I really, really despise the early game in 1.9 as well. I actually played, and beaten, your mini-map Krose, and I can honestly say it was a great map, but the thing that I disliked about it the most besides the atrocious combat was the early gameplay. Before I had reached the first checkpoint, I got killed twice by two, natural spawned skeletons. Without a shield or a decent sword, the skeletons were ridiculously overpowered and nearly impossible to kill without losing majority of my health. I'll admit, I'm a little rusty on 1.9 combat, but the fact that one or two skeletons can kill me right off the bat is just plain stupid.
"You need to be fast on your feet to evade enemies and kill them off before they overwhelm you." Although this is true, I think it's true in the worst way possible. Why does the player have to be fast on their feet? Well, its because any mob spam at all is impossible to deal with and will only kill you if you even bother trying to fight back. In Krose's mini map, I didn't bother fighting back mobs that were in the second and third wools because there was just no decent way of dealing with them. And as I mentioned earlier, that knockback mechanic does little to help the player survive against swarms of mobs.
"Honestly, give mapmaking in 1.9 a try. It is so much better than 1.8. It's like 1.7, but with all the new stuff, and a much- improved combat system."
This made me cringe. I don't want to insult anyone's opinions about 1.9 combat and such, but how are people satisfied with this? I simply don't understand. The only good things I see come out of 1.9 are the command blocks and the improved mob AI, however, the skeletons AI made them even more of a pain to deal with than the skeletons in the 1.5 update. Those who have been around that long know just how bad those skeletons were... But due to the atrocious combat, I can't even think about mapping in 1.9 without cringing a bit.
And I don't see how the combat has improved much, if anything, it feels like it has gotten worse. Starting off with the dumb shield that covers a fourth of your screen, what I've noticed is that it mostly gets rid of the need to block at all. While I was playing Krose's map, I noticed that blocking with my shield served no purpose at all. Skeletons arrows would still hit the shield, even while I was not blocking, and zombies rarely ever got the chance to melee me, so there was no real need to block. Having a bow in the offhand slot is pretty neat, however it too is flawed. In 1.8, a bow's arrow charge can be 'disabled' by simply switching to another item in the hotbar. In 1.9, if you're holding a bow in your off-hand, there is no way to cancel out the bow's shot other than right clicking at the ground which really bothers me. As for swords, I think I made myself clear. As someone who tends to have a rushed playstyle while playing CTMs, 1.9 is a total nightmare for me. There's no way to rush anymore when the player is limited to 1 swing per two seconds. (Disclaimer: I don't actually know exactly how long the charged swing delay is, but it sure as hell feels like forever)
"The direct link between food consumption and regeneration is actually quite satisfying for the player."
I'm not too concerned about the saturation being replaced with regeneration, but it's still a pointless update. I and many others thought the saturation was fine the way it was, and it being replaced with regeneration seemed pointless.
"...and helps to mitigate the horrible new skeleton AI (which is such a good addition)."
I agree with you in that the 1.8 skeletons are really derpy and easy, but the 1.9 skeletons are really overpowered in early game, which is usually the most crucial and exciting time in a CTM map. Take your pick: Moderately difficult and fun, or stupidly difficult and frustrating. If the only way to make the skeletons less powerful is by setting up flawed commands to fix it, then there's an apparent problem here.
The way I've gotten around skeleton damage in all my 1.9 maps so far is by giving out projectile protection 4-10 chestplates which seems to work quite fine. I imagine you can also do a fairly simple method of setting up these two command blocks in spawn chunks:
In a repeat command block and a chain command block
/scoreboard players tag @e[type=Arrow,tag=!Processed] add Process {pickup:0b}
/entitydata @e[type=Arrow,tag=Process] {damage:1.0d,Tags:["Processed"]}
Just note though that when that is running all skeleton arrows will do the same damage, even if the skeletons have power 10 bows. Also if the player is right up in the skeleton's face there is a chance that the arrow won't get processed in time even with those commands being processed 20 times a second.
The way I've gotten around skeleton damage in all my 1.9 maps so far is by giving out projectile protection 4-10 chestplates which seems to work quite fine. I imagine you can also do a fairly simple method of setting up these two command blocks in spawn chunks:
In a repeat command block and a chain command block
/scoreboard players tag @e[type=Arrow,tag=!Processed] add Process {pickup:0b}
/entitydata @e[type=Arrow,tag=Process] {damage:1.0d,Tags:["Processed"]}
Just note though that when that is running all skeleton arrows will do the same damage, even if the skeletons have power 10 bows. Also if the player is right up in the skeleton's face there is a chance that the arrow won't get processed in time even with those commands being processed 20 times a second.
This just highlights my issue. We shouldn't have to do this to make the game playable.
This just highlights my issue. We shouldn't have to do this to make the game playable.
I agree however I feel like this isn't going to change for quite a while. Most people want survival to be harder so they are actually okay with skeletons being too overpowered. I just wish Mojang made a large majority of the monsters stronger and more consistent with one another instead of basically just focusing on making skeletons super strong. If you try to suggest that skeletons get nerfed people just say survival is already too easy.
A skeleton can kill you in 1vs1 quite easy if you're not careful with only leather armor and a stone sword. No other basic starting monster is like that. It honestly makes you fear skeletons more than rare monsters like witches and cave spiders.
A little bit off topic btw, but there is one thing that I don't like about almost all 1.9 features and that is the lack of depth. They added a lot of new systems/mechanics to the game like shields, dual wielding, saturation regeneration, etc. but didn't do much with them.
Shields are a pretty good upgrade from the normal blocking with making it more skillful to block things since you have to actually aim. It also made it so blocking is now useful against one more monster - skeletons. Aside from creepers and skeletons there is very little point in using a shield in pve though. Moving, placing down blocks, using a water bucket, and hitting the enemy is way more useful than blocking against all the other monsters. There is basically no situation in which using a shield against a melee monster is useful.
Dual wielding is a pretty cool new system except it's very limited use. The only really truly useful thing to have in your off hand is a shield, outside of pure convenience things. It's just as easy to hit a number on your keyboard to select the item you need than to dual wield, the exception being if you're very slow at selecting items. Out of all the 1.9 survival LPs that I've seen, 90% of the time people don't bother with it, and basically the other 10% is of people using a shield in the off-hand.
Saturation regeneration also seems pretty cool except it wasn't needed at all, it effectively made survival even easier than it already was. It trivializes a lot of monsters like witches, cave spiders, and blazes. It also trivializes things like lava with being able to jump into lava multiple times and still survive without even using a water bucket. (though I think they actually fixed this issue now with lava being able to damage you like 4 times in a single second) My other issue with this is how easy it is to get the near best saturation food right off the bat. Going out in a new survival world and getting a stack of steak after 10 minutes is generally quite easy and then you're set for generally 4 hours or so. In most cases there is no build up and progression from using a bunch of different foods.
Even something like the new "end cities" (I still don't get why they call them a city ><) seem to be lacking a lot of depth. They are basically an easier version of the water temples with only having to worry about fall damage, and they even have better loot.
Even the attack speed system basically makes it so you either use an axe or you use a sword. There are no new weapons and using something like a shovel just isn't worth it. Furthermore Minecraft wasn't built around having an attack speed system so it feels out of place to a lot of people.
The new potion tipped arrows also fall into the trap of only a few arrow types being useful. You'd never want to shoot a strength arrow at someone.
But yeah, my hope is that with 1.9 introducing a bunch of the basics to these new systems/mechanics - that 1.10 will be the update that actually adds a lot more depth to them. Though I'm not sure how likely that will be. Honestly in my opinion I prefer more focused and quicker to get out updates than ones that take over a year to get out and are more general with trying to add a bunch of things at once.
All in all though 1.9 still has some awesome features like the new command blocks, and I'm just happy that you can get around most of the new 1.9 features if you don't like them~ assuming you have the knowledge to do so anyway. I still wish they added in things like a gamerule for NoAttackSpeed but yeah.
In 1.9 fighting 1 or 2 skeletons with basic gear is actually a really fun fight; dodging and strafing, timing blocks and sword swings, and it gives a good sense of satisfaction that minecraft combat 's been lacking for years. And while that works in survival, a well designed CtM should have you trying to achieve multiple objectives at once. For example, fighting off mobs while breaking a spawner and trying to keep cover from ghast shots. But because skeletons are so powerful, you have to focus on them to the exclusion of all other goals. The attack speed changes seem to have the same design principle. Fine when direct combat is the only thing you're thinking about, but it's utterly disassociated and contrary to doing other things at once, which is bad design.
Contrary to that, I think the food changes are actually really good. While they may make damage-over-time enemies a bit easier, it more closely ties two mechanics together in a way that reinforces them well. Before food basically had 4 levels: full & regenerating, irrelevant, slow, and dying, and that last one pretty much never happens* in a CtM. Food giving direct regeneration now can make situations in combat where you'll have to decide to fight or eat, and gives a smoother transition from early game to swimming in healing potions.
I get the feeling that maps in 1.9 will be rough for a while (although jam map was quite good Krose) until something excellent in 1.9 comes out and shows everyone a really good model to use. One thing I think we'll all have to accept is that skeles are no longer early-game enemies. Although frankly, the new command blocks alone might be worth making the switch even with the combat issues. Also Fang, while I get where you're coming from, how is debuffing skeletons for early game different than RC3 giving silverfish strength 7 in the last few areas? It makes them relevant for early stuff just as you'd upscale a weak mob for end-game areas.
I really don't think the combat changes are bad. Yes, it makes mob spam much harder to deal with, but mapmakers can adjust so that doesn't happen (Krose, ya did a really good job at that, I take off my Projectile-Protection 4 hat to you. ) It forces you to change your playstyle a bit, dial it back so you don't get swarmed, ya know. The only thing I deeply and legitimately don't like is the dumb skellie changes. Before, seeing 2 skeletons in a map was like "meh". Now it's like "OH JEEZ SKELLIES *dies* ". I like the food changes too, it makes the retreat-and-heal thing much faster without making it OP.
Just my opinion...
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I don't care about the Xs. You can call me Navarog. Or Nava if you really want to be a hipster. It's fine.
So I just went ahead, loaded up kroses map and cleared through the white wool area.
I think the new combat is awesome if we change and adapt as well. Let's go over a couple issues:
- DPS is way low.
If I'm comparing current DPS to what it used to be, players just output a lot less damage. Where we used to be able to do 4x full damage in less than a second, that now takes ~4 seconds. This isn't a bad thing, it's just something we need to keep in mind. A full HP zombie is going to take a few seconds to kill. Don't send 3 full HP zombies at the player and ask him to kill them within, say, 10 seconds before a new batch spawns. Solutions could be increasing attack speed, increasing damage per strike, or reducing mob health/mob count.
As of right now, bow and sword seem to do about the same amount of damage per second, which is ridiculous.
- Skellies are OP
Yeah. The main issue is that once you DO get up in their face, you'll start knocking them away. Giving them knockback resistance should help a lot, and their HP should be lower in general. Right now getting up in their face isn't rewarding enough, making it better to just get your bow out and shoot them no matter what.
- Creeper fighting sucks AKA shields OP.
Seriously. The best way to deal with these creepers is to make em blow up and just block. It's way faster than killing them. Shields seem ridiculously overpowered, I could raise my shield and eat a blast in the face without taking any damage.
But overall, if you were to deal with those problems, you get a lot of cool stuff. We can actually make builds that "feel" better than others, and don't rely on pure stats now. The new attackspeed attribute makes it so you can make light armor that increases your attack speed, and heavy armor that decreases it.
The attack recharge makes it so that if you miss your attack, you're actually in a bit of trouble as you can't immediately strike again. The new combat involves more skill (especially aiming is a much bigger deal), which is both good and bad I guess. Enabling the recharge indicator is vital though (set it to crosshair, seriously).
Btw, speed 2/3 spiders are one of the worst things I have ever seen. They're insanely powerful, really. Taking a high attack axe and shield seems to be the best way to deal with em.
Shields could be really helpful with long recharge, high damage weapons too. Especially if you don't have space to kite melee monsters it'll help if you can tank the damage and not have to keep knocking them back.
I really quite like the idea of going a slow attack, high hit damage "tank" build, with good armor and a shield. Or going a "dex" build, being mobile, having good attack speed, but dealing less damage.
There's a lot of stuff for me to explore, but I'm excited. I think we can do a lot if both players and mapmakers have an open mind. If you don't want to change your gameplay, don't play 1.9
If this were true, Dark Souls would be one of the worst games ever made. And League of Legends would be boring as ****.
See, if you're not hitting mobs, you're not "doing nothing". In fact, since you're attack is on cooldown, you're more vulnerable to stuff jumpin in your face since you can't hit it back. You're probably backing up, doging skeleton arrows (yes it's now possible to dodge the long range arrows), and worrying if there's nothing behind you to kill you.
MC combat WAS precision based and very fast paced. They slowed down the pace (by only a small bit) and brought in some strategy. Like I said, if you're not willing to adapt, that's fine, but that doesn't mean the combat is poorly designed.
See, we can still have dex weapons with 2.5 attack speed to allow you to basically spamclick. But now we can ALSO have weapons with a longer windup/cooldown.
Did you ever play Darksouls/bloodborne? Notice how a lot of weapons have a really long windups, usually longer even then MC's cooldown. Is their pve bad? No. Even though you literally can't do anything but cancel the attack during that time. Why is it necessary? It forces you to find openings and choose a good moment to attack.
Yes, CTMs were all about the environmental challenge and not about any combat itself, because minecraft (and this is the important bit) had a bad combat system so we found other ways to make "fighting" fun. Now, we can keep those things, but add a good combat system. Now, instead of having to wrry about only the bridge you want to cross, you have to worry about how to cross it, and how to execute you crossing it. There's a lot of micro decision making added to the game, the same kind of decision making that League of Legends is havely based on.
I feel like we, as mapmakers, can please a broader audience now. We can give some players a full glass cannon, superfast, spamclick sword, and other players a slow strength build. With the new skeleton AI ranged fights can be a lot more interesting too. Maybe we can even make a ranged archer/mage build work. If we provide a diversity of gear, designed to actually change the way you fight, rather than change how much damge you take or do, we can add a lot more depth to the game. We should be the ones to finish up the final 20% of 1.9, and use the house Mojang build us by adding stuff that lives in it.
I really do like this idea of classes. I hadn't quite thought about applying these attributes to sets of armor, seems like a very interesting take on a way to deal with the new combat. This also poses a bit of a problem for those who don't give a lot of custom loot. There are a couple maps out there that use a lot of vanilla loot with minimal amounts of really cool custom loot. The attack damage thing would really hit them hard I think.
While I think the points you made are a good one, my feelings towards it are basically: If I wanted to play Dark Souls, I would play Dark Souls. And I love Dark Souls, it's one of my favorite games of all time, but that style of gameplay isn't what I am looking for in CTMs. I like the Minecraft CTMs because it is fast paced and edge of your seat action. And I am sure that is the thought of a bunch of other people.
That being said, making the changes doesn't mean the changes are bad. I just think the concern is that the new combat messes with the old flow of combat.
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Here's a semi in-depth look at the main 2 issues with 1.9 and what I think we, as CTM mapmakers, should do about it:
I think we need to re-assess our approach to CTM creation. We need to band together and think of a one size fits all solution to skeletons. And we need to re-think our priorities when it comes to area design. It's less about tight corridors and mob spam, more about wide spaces and multiple routes of attack, whilst providing players opportunity to retreat to relative cover. What do you guys think?
I don't necessarily agree. We have an easy solution. Use 1.8 until Mojang gets their stuff together and starts to repair the mess they've made. 1.9 has some cool features, but it's not worth giving up all semblance of what makes a CTM (by having to specifically design around a single utterly broken mob, removing the ability to make the player feel powerful against hordes of monsters, ect.) just to get access to some fancy features. Keep making your maps as best as they can be, and if you use 1.9 and make an effort to balance around it, whatever. Just know you're spending time fixing the balance mistakes yourself instead of making use of the stable release we have.
I don't really want to interrupt this passionate debate but...
That time of the month is coming again, we have to choose new map for the map of the month section. Since 1.9 is slowly but surely coming I suggest let's choose some 1.9 map. A lot of people will be looking for a map on which they can try the new combat so we should provide.
Right now I know only about Krose's Supposed Gold Path. If you know of any other good 1.9 maps suggest them. If you have any other idea of what map to put there, feel free to suggest as well.
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Curse PremiumWow, that looks really impressive! The hype is real again.
If the aesthetics can match the innovation of the first map, I'm sure this will be an amazing map. Good luck with release. I haven't seen any pics yet, but your first map was pretty great.
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Curse PremiumThe biggest thing about 1.9 and CTM for me is just the early game. The early game is brutally boring, and with the skeletons it becomes plain out annoying. I really hope there are ways soon, (heck at this point mods would be acceptable) to combat this combat (hehehehe). I see promise in the other features of this update though. I'm excited.
I agree with you. There's a ton of cool things coming with the update, but the combat seems so wonky. I predict a good handful of maps will still be made in 1.8 until everyone figures out how to accommodate the new combat features well.
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That looks really awesome. I just hope evil 1.9 combat doesn't get me killed.
And what difficulty should it be anyway?
o hai old navatar is back
I don't care about the Xs. You can call me Navarog. Or Nava if you really want to be a hipster. It's fine.
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Curse PremiumNot to be rude, but just as advice since you asked: Add some focus points. There's nothing standing out or that's cool too look at. The area makes for a perfect cool background, but without a castle, city, tower, dungeon, whatever to fill up the area it's not that interesting. The walls are the same everywhere, there's nod depth, nothing to break it up.
"Very green" is an understatement :3
I actually quite like this, but as Rubisk said, focus points are definitely a good thing, and that big frikn tree needs to be lit up in some way because it just looks kinda like a big dark blob.
I don't care about the Xs. You can call me Navarog. Or Nava if you really want to be a hipster. It's fine.
Rant about 1.9:
And I really, really despise the early game in 1.9 as well. I actually played, and beaten, your mini-map Krose, and I can honestly say it was a great map, but the thing that I disliked about it the most besides the atrocious combat was the early gameplay. Before I had reached the first checkpoint, I got killed twice by two, natural spawned skeletons. Without a shield or a decent sword, the skeletons were ridiculously overpowered and nearly impossible to kill without losing majority of my health. I'll admit, I'm a little rusty on 1.9 combat, but the fact that one or two skeletons can kill me right off the bat is just plain stupid.
"You need to be fast on your feet to evade enemies and kill them off before they overwhelm you."
Although this is true, I think it's true in the worst way possible. Why does the player have to be fast on their feet? Well, its because any mob spam at all is impossible to deal with and will only kill you if you even bother trying to fight back. In Krose's mini map, I didn't bother fighting back mobs that were in the second and third wools because there was just no decent way of dealing with them. And as I mentioned earlier, that knockback mechanic does little to help the player survive against swarms of mobs.
"Honestly, give mapmaking in 1.9 a try. It is so much better than 1.8. It's like 1.7, but with all the new stuff, and a much- improved combat system."
This made me cringe. I don't want to insult anyone's opinions about 1.9 combat and such, but how are people satisfied with this? I simply don't understand. The only good things I see come out of 1.9 are the command blocks and the improved mob AI, however, the skeletons AI made them even more of a pain to deal with than the skeletons in the 1.5 update. Those who have been around that long know just how bad those skeletons were... But due to the atrocious combat, I can't even think about mapping in 1.9 without cringing a bit.
And I don't see how the combat has improved much, if anything, it feels like it has gotten worse. Starting off with the dumb shield that covers a fourth of your screen, what I've noticed is that it mostly gets rid of the need to block at all. While I was playing Krose's map, I noticed that blocking with my shield served no purpose at all. Skeletons arrows would still hit the shield, even while I was not blocking, and zombies rarely ever got the chance to melee me, so there was no real need to block. Having a bow in the offhand slot is pretty neat, however it too is flawed. In 1.8, a bow's arrow charge can be 'disabled' by simply switching to another item in the hotbar. In 1.9, if you're holding a bow in your off-hand, there is no way to cancel out the bow's shot other than right clicking at the ground which really bothers me. As for swords, I think I made myself clear. As someone who tends to have a rushed playstyle while playing CTMs, 1.9 is a total nightmare for me. There's no way to rush anymore when the player is limited to 1 swing per two seconds. (Disclaimer: I don't actually know exactly how long the charged swing delay is, but it sure as hell feels like forever)
"The direct link between food consumption and regeneration is actually quite satisfying for the player."
I'm not too concerned about the saturation being replaced with regeneration, but it's still a pointless update. I and many others thought the saturation was fine the way it was, and it being replaced with regeneration seemed pointless.
"...and helps to mitigate the horrible new skeleton AI (which is such a good addition)."
I agree with you in that the 1.8 skeletons are really derpy and easy, but the 1.9 skeletons are really overpowered in early game, which is usually the most crucial and exciting time in a CTM map. Take your pick: Moderately difficult and fun, or stupidly difficult and frustrating. If the only way to make the skeletons less powerful is by setting up flawed commands to fix it, then there's an apparent problem here.
Hello CTM Community. <3
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Curse PremiumThe way I've gotten around skeleton damage in all my 1.9 maps so far is by giving out projectile protection 4-10 chestplates which seems to work quite fine. I imagine you can also do a fairly simple method of setting up these two command blocks in spawn chunks:
In a repeat command block and a chain command block /scoreboard players tag @e[type=Arrow,tag=!Processed] add Process {pickup:0b} /entitydata @e[type=Arrow,tag=Process] {damage:1.0d,Tags:["Processed"]}Just note though that when that is running all skeleton arrows will do the same damage, even if the skeletons have power 10 bows. Also if the player is right up in the skeleton's face there is a chance that the arrow won't get processed in time even with those commands being processed 20 times a second.
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Retired StaffThis just highlights my issue. We shouldn't have to do this to make the game playable.
As the hero's burn in the Ember Village...
The Temple only gets stronger!
Coming Soon!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding/maps/maps-discussion/2461662-ctm-ctm-catastrophic-caverns-by-kaiser_2
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Curse PremiumI agree however I feel like this isn't going to change for quite a while. Most people want survival to be harder so they are actually okay with skeletons being too overpowered. I just wish Mojang made a large majority of the monsters stronger and more consistent with one another instead of basically just focusing on making skeletons super strong. If you try to suggest that skeletons get nerfed people just say survival is already too easy.
A skeleton can kill you in 1vs1 quite easy if you're not careful with only leather armor and a stone sword. No other basic starting monster is like that. It honestly makes you fear skeletons more than rare monsters like witches and cave spiders.
A little bit off topic btw, but there is one thing that I don't like about almost all 1.9 features and that is the lack of depth. They added a lot of new systems/mechanics to the game like shields, dual wielding, saturation regeneration, etc. but didn't do much with them.
Shields are a pretty good upgrade from the normal blocking with making it more skillful to block things since you have to actually aim. It also made it so blocking is now useful against one more monster - skeletons. Aside from creepers and skeletons there is very little point in using a shield in pve though. Moving, placing down blocks, using a water bucket, and hitting the enemy is way more useful than blocking against all the other monsters. There is basically no situation in which using a shield against a melee monster is useful.
Dual wielding is a pretty cool new system except it's very limited use. The only really truly useful thing to have in your off hand is a shield, outside of pure convenience things. It's just as easy to hit a number on your keyboard to select the item you need than to dual wield, the exception being if you're very slow at selecting items. Out of all the 1.9 survival LPs that I've seen, 90% of the time people don't bother with it, and basically the other 10% is of people using a shield in the off-hand.
Saturation regeneration also seems pretty cool except it wasn't needed at all, it effectively made survival even easier than it already was. It trivializes a lot of monsters like witches, cave spiders, and blazes. It also trivializes things like lava with being able to jump into lava multiple times and still survive without even using a water bucket. (though I think they actually fixed this issue now with lava being able to damage you like 4 times in a single second) My other issue with this is how easy it is to get the near best saturation food right off the bat. Going out in a new survival world and getting a stack of steak after 10 minutes is generally quite easy and then you're set for generally 4 hours or so. In most cases there is no build up and progression from using a bunch of different foods.
Even something like the new "end cities" (I still don't get why they call them a city ><) seem to be lacking a lot of depth. They are basically an easier version of the water temples with only having to worry about fall damage, and they even have better loot.
Even the attack speed system basically makes it so you either use an axe or you use a sword. There are no new weapons and using something like a shovel just isn't worth it. Furthermore Minecraft wasn't built around having an attack speed system so it feels out of place to a lot of people.
The new potion tipped arrows also fall into the trap of only a few arrow types being useful. You'd never want to shoot a strength arrow at someone.
But yeah, my hope is that with 1.9 introducing a bunch of the basics to these new systems/mechanics - that 1.10 will be the update that actually adds a lot more depth to them. Though I'm not sure how likely that will be. Honestly in my opinion I prefer more focused and quicker to get out updates than ones that take over a year to get out and are more general with trying to add a bunch of things at once.
All in all though 1.9 still has some awesome features like the new command blocks, and I'm just happy that you can get around most of the new 1.9 features if you don't like them~ assuming you have the knowledge to do so anyway. I still wish they added in things like a gamerule for NoAttackSpeed but yeah.
In 1.9 fighting 1 or 2 skeletons with basic gear is actually a really fun fight; dodging and strafing, timing blocks and sword swings, and it gives a good sense of satisfaction that minecraft combat 's been lacking for years. And while that works in survival, a well designed CtM should have you trying to achieve multiple objectives at once. For example, fighting off mobs while breaking a spawner and trying to keep cover from ghast shots. But because skeletons are so powerful, you have to focus on them to the exclusion of all other goals. The attack speed changes seem to have the same design principle. Fine when direct combat is the only thing you're thinking about, but it's utterly disassociated and contrary to doing other things at once, which is bad design.
Contrary to that, I think the food changes are actually really good. While they may make damage-over-time enemies a bit easier, it more closely ties two mechanics together in a way that reinforces them well. Before food basically had 4 levels: full & regenerating, irrelevant, slow, and dying, and that last one pretty much never happens* in a CtM. Food giving direct regeneration now can make situations in combat where you'll have to decide to fight or eat, and gives a smoother transition from early game to swimming in healing potions.
I get the feeling that maps in 1.9 will be rough for a while (although jam map was quite good Krose) until something excellent in 1.9 comes out and shows everyone a really good model to use. One thing I think we'll all have to accept is that skeles are no longer early-game enemies. Although frankly, the new command blocks alone might be worth making the switch even with the combat issues. Also Fang, while I get where you're coming from, how is debuffing skeletons for early game different than RC3 giving silverfish strength 7 in the last few areas? It makes them relevant for early stuff just as you'd upscale a weak mob for end-game areas.
*except for zombie-flesh-only early areas
Re 1.9 raging:
I really don't think the combat changes are bad. Yes, it makes mob spam much harder to deal with, but mapmakers can adjust so that doesn't happen (Krose, ya did a really good job at that, I take off my Projectile-Protection 4 hat to you. ) It forces you to change your playstyle a bit, dial it back so you don't get swarmed, ya know. The only thing I deeply and legitimately don't like is the dumb skellie changes. Before, seeing 2 skeletons in a map was like "meh". Now it's like "OH JEEZ SKELLIES *dies* ". I like the food changes too, it makes the retreat-and-heal thing much faster without making it OP.
Just my opinion...
I don't care about the Xs. You can call me Navarog. Or Nava if you really want to be a hipster. It's fine.
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Curse PremiumSo I just went ahead, loaded up kroses map and cleared through the white wool area.
I think the new combat is awesome if we change and adapt as well. Let's go over a couple issues:
- DPS is way low.
If I'm comparing current DPS to what it used to be, players just output a lot less damage. Where we used to be able to do 4x full damage in less than a second, that now takes ~4 seconds. This isn't a bad thing, it's just something we need to keep in mind. A full HP zombie is going to take a few seconds to kill. Don't send 3 full HP zombies at the player and ask him to kill them within, say, 10 seconds before a new batch spawns. Solutions could be increasing attack speed, increasing damage per strike, or reducing mob health/mob count.
As of right now, bow and sword seem to do about the same amount of damage per second, which is ridiculous.
- Skellies are OP
Yeah. The main issue is that once you DO get up in their face, you'll start knocking them away. Giving them knockback resistance should help a lot, and their HP should be lower in general. Right now getting up in their face isn't rewarding enough, making it better to just get your bow out and shoot them no matter what.
- Creeper fighting sucks AKA shields OP.
Seriously. The best way to deal with these creepers is to make em blow up and just block. It's way faster than killing them. Shields seem ridiculously overpowered, I could raise my shield and eat a blast in the face without taking any damage.
But overall, if you were to deal with those problems, you get a lot of cool stuff. We can actually make builds that "feel" better than others, and don't rely on pure stats now. The new attackspeed attribute makes it so you can make light armor that increases your attack speed, and heavy armor that decreases it.
The attack recharge makes it so that if you miss your attack, you're actually in a bit of trouble as you can't immediately strike again. The new combat involves more skill (especially aiming is a much bigger deal), which is both good and bad I guess. Enabling the recharge indicator is vital though (set it to crosshair, seriously).
Btw, speed 2/3 spiders are one of the worst things I have ever seen. They're insanely powerful, really. Taking a high attack axe and shield seems to be the best way to deal with em.
Shields could be really helpful with long recharge, high damage weapons too. Especially if you don't have space to kite melee monsters it'll help if you can tank the damage and not have to keep knocking them back.
I really quite like the idea of going a slow attack, high hit damage "tank" build, with good armor and a shield. Or going a "dex" build, being mobile, having good attack speed, but dealing less damage.
There's a lot of stuff for me to explore, but I'm excited. I think we can do a lot if both players and mapmakers have an open mind. If you don't want to change your gameplay, don't play 1.9
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Curse PremiumWowowowow.
If this were true, Dark Souls would be one of the worst games ever made. And League of Legends would be boring as ****.
See, if you're not hitting mobs, you're not "doing nothing". In fact, since you're attack is on cooldown, you're more vulnerable to stuff jumpin in your face since you can't hit it back. You're probably backing up, doging skeleton arrows (yes it's now possible to dodge the long range arrows), and worrying if there's nothing behind you to kill you.
MC combat WAS precision based and very fast paced. They slowed down the pace (by only a small bit) and brought in some strategy. Like I said, if you're not willing to adapt, that's fine, but that doesn't mean the combat is poorly designed.
See, we can still have dex weapons with 2.5 attack speed to allow you to basically spamclick. But now we can ALSO have weapons with a longer windup/cooldown.
Did you ever play Darksouls/bloodborne? Notice how a lot of weapons have a really long windups, usually longer even then MC's cooldown. Is their pve bad? No. Even though you literally can't do anything but cancel the attack during that time. Why is it necessary? It forces you to find openings and choose a good moment to attack.
Yes, CTMs were all about the environmental challenge and not about any combat itself, because minecraft (and this is the important bit) had a bad combat system so we found other ways to make "fighting" fun. Now, we can keep those things, but add a good combat system. Now, instead of having to wrry about only the bridge you want to cross, you have to worry about how to cross it, and how to execute you crossing it. There's a lot of micro decision making added to the game, the same kind of decision making that League of Legends is havely based on.
I feel like we, as mapmakers, can please a broader audience now. We can give some players a full glass cannon, superfast, spamclick sword, and other players a slow strength build. With the new skeleton AI ranged fights can be a lot more interesting too. Maybe we can even make a ranged archer/mage build work. If we provide a diversity of gear, designed to actually change the way you fight, rather than change how much damge you take or do, we can add a lot more depth to the game. We should be the ones to finish up the final 20% of 1.9, and use the house Mojang build us by adding stuff that lives in it.
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Curse PremiumI really do like this idea of classes. I hadn't quite thought about applying these attributes to sets of armor, seems like a very interesting take on a way to deal with the new combat. This also poses a bit of a problem for those who don't give a lot of custom loot. There are a couple maps out there that use a lot of vanilla loot with minimal amounts of really cool custom loot. The attack damage thing would really hit them hard I think.
While I think the points you made are a good one, my feelings towards it are basically: If I wanted to play Dark Souls, I would play Dark Souls. And I love Dark Souls, it's one of my favorite games of all time, but that style of gameplay isn't what I am looking for in CTMs. I like the Minecraft CTMs because it is fast paced and edge of your seat action. And I am sure that is the thought of a bunch of other people.
That being said, making the changes doesn't mean the changes are bad. I just think the concern is that the new combat messes with the old flow of combat.
Check out my Youtube Chanel! I play CTMs and other games as well:
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Retired StaffI don't necessarily agree. We have an easy solution. Use 1.8 until Mojang gets their stuff together and starts to repair the mess they've made. 1.9 has some cool features, but it's not worth giving up all semblance of what makes a CTM (by having to specifically design around a single utterly broken mob, removing the ability to make the player feel powerful against hordes of monsters, ect.) just to get access to some fancy features. Keep making your maps as best as they can be, and if you use 1.9 and make an effort to balance around it, whatever. Just know you're spending time fixing the balance mistakes yourself instead of making use of the stable release we have.
I don't really want to interrupt this passionate debate but...
That time of the month is coming again, we have to choose new map for the map of the month section. Since 1.9 is slowly but surely coming I suggest let's choose some 1.9 map. A lot of people will be looking for a map on which they can try the new combat so we should provide.
Right now I know only about Krose's Supposed Gold Path. If you know of any other good 1.9 maps suggest them. If you have any other idea of what map to put there, feel free to suggest as well.