Hello everybody! What time is it? That's right! Community question time!
CQ: What is your opinion on large amounts of bonus areas and dungeons used as either loot dungeons or bonus objective locations, or just general extra areas for exploration. And would you use them in a map?
I think they're fine to use, or even use plentifully, as long as they are clearly labelled or otherwise indicated as "not a wool dungeon". Because when I spend hours working to get through an area because I think it's the wool, you had better give me a wool. I think that wool/objective dungeons should be harder than any bonus loot dungeons, unless the item(s) are REALLY overpowered. On the other hand, if you have a bonus monument that's like a "mastery"-type thing, then it's okay to make the dungeons for those objectives harder. Basically, my opinion is that wools/objectives should be easy to find but hard to complete, whereas loot dungeons (for less OP loot) should be hard to find but easy to complete. Nothing (sans bridging areas, whether or not they contain void) annoys me more than not being able to find a wool. (This is also why I hate maze areas. Call me a hypocrite, 'cause I'm using two in my map.)
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Mapmaker and LPer of Complete The Monument (CTM) maps.
Creator/owner of the CTM Community Mapping Server - ask about it on the CTM Community thread!
Current projects:
Thanatos - a subterranean semi-open-world urban CTM
Titan's Revolt - a collaborative project run by ProjectCTM; sequel to Pantheon
Pinnacle - a "sketch" mini-CTM intended for newer players (nearing completion!)
Contrary to everything said so far;
Try not to overdo it on adding colour/variety- otherwise it blurs into noise when you build it into a wall.
Designs like this works brilliantly for the centrepiece, or as somewhere to draw players to.
As a continuously repeating pattern it can get a little distracting/noisy- or if you're really unlucky overpower the rooms main feature.
--by example- here's a shot into my old cathedral. Its almost all gray stone and glass.
That. That is so true. An area will look way better if there is something that draw main attention, instead of all parts being messy and wanting attention. Variation is good, "flow" (or that's what it's called in most graphical design afaik) is way more important. I suck at doing it though
@CQ, I feel great about them. After all, the whole point of CTM was a survival map, with some loot to make sure you come everywhere. The point of wools is to force the player to actually go conquer everything. If I play a CTM map, i want to conquer it all. That's what made lush ruins bad. It was designed well, but way to big and unconquerable.
And are maze areas annoying? And what do you mean by maze? I'm working on something like that atm, or at least an area that makes the player get lost soon if he doesn't watch out. If you understand the "maze" mechanics, it's easy to move around though.
And are maze areas annoying? And what do you mean by maze? I'm working on something like that atm, or at least an area that makes the player get lost soon if he doesn't watch out. If you understand the "maze" mechanics, it's easy to move around though.
I mean stuff like Pig Roulette from UT1, the magenta wool in Blackened Library in Spellbound Caves, the sub-area in the monument area of Pantheon, and like the last 5 dungeons of Shards of the Void. (oh god Shards of the Void... bridging over void, mazes... I never finished that map.) Mazes. Like, labyrinths. It often depends on the size/complicatedness of the maze, but I tend to hate them with a passion. which is why I'm inflicting them on you...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mapmaker and LPer of Complete The Monument (CTM) maps.
Creator/owner of the CTM Community Mapping Server - ask about it on the CTM Community thread!
Current projects:
Thanatos - a subterranean semi-open-world urban CTM
Titan's Revolt - a collaborative project run by ProjectCTM; sequel to Pantheon
Pinnacle - a "sketch" mini-CTM intended for newer players (nearing completion!)
@Community Question
Yup! I love little side areas, and I think they're a good addition to CTM maps. I love 'em!
@Other Stuff
Does anybody have a relevant response to my previous question? I'm really looking for somebody... If you missed it, it's on the last page.
Hey there, all. I stream CTMs as well as other indie games, Minecraft servers and probably that's it. I'm your supreme overlord too so I command you to CHECK ME OUT: www.twitch.tv/techniclepanther
@Other Stuff
Does anybody have a relevant response to my previous question? I'm really looking for somebody... If you missed it, it's on the last page.
;P Now I know this might sound stupid, but I was wondering is there was anyone who loves doing CTM grunt work, but has a deficiency of ideas. If so, I have the opposite problem. I'm always coming up with ideas thast would be absolutely brilliant, but I know that if I had to do all of the work myself, I would never finish a map (I can hardly finish playing one). If there's anyone who would be interested in doing a collab map with me, I would totally love that.
Hmm. Well, I think I probably have the problem where I don't have enough ideas (I can't think of any good dungeons for my cave-style map), so... I guess I'd be open to the idea.
By the way, we ought to resume playing that map together. I'll send you a link to a spreadsheet where we can coordinate times.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mapmaker and LPer of Complete The Monument (CTM) maps.
Creator/owner of the CTM Community Mapping Server - ask about it on the CTM Community thread!
Current projects:
Thanatos - a subterranean semi-open-world urban CTM
Titan's Revolt - a collaborative project run by ProjectCTM; sequel to Pantheon
Pinnacle - a "sketch" mini-CTM intended for newer players (nearing completion!)
Cool. Maybe we can work on the map while playing the map by switching out the worlds. I may want to log on to your server periodically to see what's going on with the map.
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Hey there, all. I stream CTMs as well as other indie games, Minecraft servers and probably that's it. I'm your supreme overlord too so I command you to CHECK ME OUT: www.twitch.tv/techniclepanther
Aww... I'm a really sad panda right now. Just checked this thread on mobile, and thought images were way brighter then on my desktop. Apparently my desktop has a really low brightness. My map is overlit, and not just a little bit
Aww... I'm a really sad panda right now. Just checked this thread on mobile, and thought images were way brighter then on my desktop. Apparently my desktop has a really low brightness. My map is overlit, and not just a little bit
Contrary to everything said so far;
Try not to overdo it on adding colour/variety- otherwise it blurs into noise when you build it into a wall.
Designs like this works brilliantly for the centrepiece, or as somewhere to draw players to.
As a continuously repeating pattern it can get a little distracting/noisy- or if you're really unlucky overpower the rooms main feature.
--by example- here's a shot into my old cathedral. Its almost all gray stone and glass.
Looking at your wall again- can you bring up a shot with the wood background swapped out of smoothstone or quartz?
He's not overdoing it. There's a difference between placing blocks to form a structural pattern, and placing blocks randomly just for the heck of it. To make a centre piece stand out, it has to be better than the walls themselves. Making a wall detailed and interesting to look at doesn't make it bad, it's the centre piece that you need to adjust to make it noticeable.
Is your cathedral meant to prove your point about limiting detail on the background walls and focusing on the centre piece? Because I don't find anything interesting at all, everything seems very repetitive, bland and boring to look at. I'm sorry if I'm not getting the point.
Also, this style of building focuses on detailing. It aims to get to the point where it looks pleasing, but not too much where it gets too noisy. Think of it as art - some may prefer it more than others. It's how you view things.
As Apollo suggested i've added more lights to the roof, and now it's better C:
Rubisk, I tried to change to the double stone slabs but I don't really like it, so i remade it to cyan clay. And yes, i'm going to add structures!
Grubbid to move in the cave you are going to traverse little caves on the sides. I think i'm going to do something so players don't go in the water.
I also have a screenshot of a something that came to my mind today C:
It's a giant Saxophone that shoots skeletons. It's nothing really "New" but i think it's a pretty original concept. Maybe I'm going to do an area based on sound and music. Just because.
Sounds like I'll have to change my skin back to epic sax guy..
As Apollo suggested i've added more lights to the roof, and now it's better C:
Rubisk, I tried to change to the double stone slabs but I don't really like it, so i remade it to cyan clay. And yes, i'm going to add structures!
Grubbid to move in the cave you are going to traverse little caves on the sides. I think i'm going to do something so players don't go in the water.
I also have a screenshot of a something that came to my mind today C:
It's a giant Saxophone that shoots skeletons. It's nothing really "New" but i think it's a pretty original concept. Maybe I'm going to do an area based on sound and music. Just because.
Would you prefer a map to be more like a traditional CTM map with its transitions, that is a straight waterway or a teleporter or a hallway to quickly escort you from point A to point B without any shenanigans, or would you like a map to have spaces in-between areas such as Upper Mines from IM?
Personally, I think both are fine. A traditional hallway or teleporter is fast and lets you get right to the area, while a map with spaces in-between areas allow for more exploration (as long as they are not too big so that I can complete the map within this decade).
Would you prefer a map to be more like a traditional CTM map with its transitions, that is a straight waterway or a teleporter or a hallway to quickly escort you from point A to point B without any shenanigans, or would you like a map to have spaces in-between areas such as Upper Mines from IM?
Personally, I think both are fine. A traditional hallway or teleporter is fast and lets you get right to the area, while a map with spaces in-between areas allow for more exploration (as long as they are not too big so that I can complete the map within this decade).
I'm... not entirely sure what you mean by "in-between areas". Wasn't Upper Mines the area where the three skylights joined up, and where the white wool was?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mapmaker and LPer of Complete The Monument (CTM) maps.
Creator/owner of the CTM Community Mapping Server - ask about it on the CTM Community thread!
Current projects:
Thanatos - a subterranean semi-open-world urban CTM
Titan's Revolt - a collaborative project run by ProjectCTM; sequel to Pantheon
Pinnacle - a "sketch" mini-CTM intended for newer players (nearing completion!)
Would you prefer a map to be more like a traditional CTM map with its transitions, that is a straight waterway or a teleporter or a hallway to quickly escort you from point A to point B without any shenanigans, or would you like a map to have spaces in-between areas such as Upper Mines from IM?
Personally, I think both are fine. A traditional hallway or teleporter is fast and lets you get right to the area, while a map with spaces in-between areas allow for more exploration (as long as they are not too big so that I can complete the map within this decade).
Well, I personally think that teleporters fail. If i play a ctm map, i usually like to make a base, or something. Sometimes I just dig giant tunnels all over the map. I don't like the feel when you are getting teleported. I don't know why, if you can't walk it, it feels weird.
Hallways are great, and if they don't fit, please use small in-between areas. Don't make them to big without content though. I like a stroll, but hate a long walk.
I'm... not entirely sure what you mean by "in-between areas". Wasn't Upper Mines the area where the three skylights joined up, and where the white wool was?
Well, yeah but lets just pretend those skylights had actual wool in them. I couldn't think of a better example.
Well, I personally think that teleporters fail. If i play a ctm map, i usually like to make a base, or something. Sometimes I just dig giant tunnels all over the map. I don't like the feel when you are getting teleported. I don't know why, if you can't walk it, it feels weird.
Hallways are great, and if they don't fit, please use small in-between areas. Don't make them to big without content though. I like a stroll, but hate a long walk.
While I wouldn't mind teleporters, I must admit I miss the old days of passageways and hallway traps. ;( I don't like teleporters much, because you have no idea what the button is going to do (UTII's teleport to I4 button being the worst offender) or where it might teleport you to (Eternal Battle). I'd like to be more on guard and cautious, thank you very much.
Obviously though, if you're making a huge map I would appreciate it if I didn't have to wait for the minecart to take me all the way to I5.
I think they're fine to use, or even use plentifully, as long as they are clearly labelled or otherwise indicated as "not a wool dungeon". Because when I spend hours working to get through an area because I think it's the wool, you had better give me a wool. I think that wool/objective dungeons should be harder than any bonus loot dungeons, unless the item(s) are REALLY overpowered. On the other hand, if you have a bonus monument that's like a "mastery"-type thing, then it's okay to make the dungeons for those objectives harder. Basically, my opinion is that wools/objectives should be easy to find but hard to complete, whereas loot dungeons (for less OP loot) should be hard to find but easy to complete. Nothing (sans bridging areas, whether or not they contain void) annoys me more than not being able to find a wool. (This is also why I hate maze areas. Call me a hypocrite, 'cause I'm using two in my map.)
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Curse PremiumThat. That is so true. An area will look way better if there is something that draw main attention, instead of all parts being messy and wanting attention. Variation is good, "flow" (or that's what it's called in most graphical design afaik) is way more important. I suck at doing it though
@CQ, I feel great about them. After all, the whole point of CTM was a survival map, with some loot to make sure you come everywhere. The point of wools is to force the player to actually go conquer everything. If I play a CTM map, i want to conquer it all. That's what made lush ruins bad. It was designed well, but way to big and unconquerable.
And are maze areas annoying? And what do you mean by maze? I'm working on something like that atm, or at least an area that makes the player get lost soon if he doesn't watch out. If you understand the "maze" mechanics, it's easy to move around though.
I mean stuff like Pig Roulette from UT1, the magenta wool in Blackened Library in Spellbound Caves, the sub-area in the monument area of Pantheon, and like the last 5 dungeons of Shards of the Void. (oh god Shards of the Void... bridging over void, mazes... I never finished that map.) Mazes. Like, labyrinths. It often depends on the size/complicatedness of the maze, but I tend to hate them with a passion. which is why I'm inflicting them on you...
Yup! I love little side areas, and I think they're a good addition to CTM maps. I love 'em!
@Other Stuff
Does anybody have a relevant response to my previous question? I'm really looking for somebody... If you missed it, it's on the last page.
Hey there, all. I stream CTMs as well as other indie games, Minecraft servers and probably that's it. I'm your supreme overlord too so I command you to CHECK ME OUT: www.twitch.tv/techniclepanther
Hmm. Well, I think I probably have the problem where I don't have enough ideas (I can't think of any good dungeons for my cave-style map), so... I guess I'd be open to the idea.
By the way, we ought to resume playing that map together. I'll send you a link to a spreadsheet where we can coordinate times.
Hey there, all. I stream CTMs as well as other indie games, Minecraft servers and probably that's it. I'm your supreme overlord too so I command you to CHECK ME OUT: www.twitch.tv/techniclepanther
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Curse PremiumHe's not overdoing it. There's a difference between placing blocks to form a structural pattern, and placing blocks randomly just for the heck of it. To make a centre piece stand out, it has to be better than the walls themselves. Making a wall detailed and interesting to look at doesn't make it bad, it's the centre piece that you need to adjust to make it noticeable.
Is your cathedral meant to prove your point about limiting detail on the background walls and focusing on the centre piece? Because I don't find anything interesting at all, everything seems very repetitive, bland and boring to look at. I'm sorry if I'm not getting the point.
Also, this style of building focuses on detailing. It aims to get to the point where it looks pleasing, but not too much where it gets too noisy. Think of it as art - some may prefer it more than others. It's how you view things.
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Retired StaffHead here: http://www.minecraftforum.net/user/2039866-ctmcommunity/
And click "Send me a PM!"
Sounds like I'll have to change my skin back to epic sax guy..
Am I little gif freak lately?
can i just say
ALL DA YES
Would you prefer a map to be more like a traditional CTM map with its transitions, that is a straight waterway or a teleporter or a hallway to quickly escort you from point A to point B without any shenanigans, or would you like a map to have spaces in-between areas such as Upper Mines from IM?
Personally, I think both are fine. A traditional hallway or teleporter is fast and lets you get right to the area, while a map with spaces in-between areas allow for more exploration (as long as they are not too big so that I can complete the map within this decade).
I'm... not entirely sure what you mean by "in-between areas". Wasn't Upper Mines the area where the three skylights joined up, and where the white wool was?
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Curse PremiumWell, I personally think that teleporters fail. If i play a ctm map, i usually like to make a base, or something. Sometimes I just dig giant tunnels all over the map. I don't like the feel when you are getting teleported. I don't know why, if you can't walk it, it feels weird.
Hallways are great, and if they don't fit, please use small in-between areas. Don't make them to big without content though. I like a stroll, but hate a long walk.
Well, yeah but lets just pretend those skylights had actual wool in them. I couldn't think of a better example.
Oh, you mean sort of like an intersection, but it's really an area?
Like Vexian Gallery?
While I wouldn't mind teleporters, I must admit I miss the old days of passageways and hallway traps. ;( I don't like teleporters much, because you have no idea what the button is going to do (UTII's teleport to I4 button being the worst offender) or where it might teleport you to (Eternal Battle). I'd like to be more on guard and cautious, thank you very much.
Obviously though, if you're making a huge map I would appreciate it if I didn't have to wait for the minecart to take me all the way to I5.