Yes, sadly they are uncraftable...and with them, its a good way to spend enchant levels, other then enchanting items...as once you have a bunch of really good things enchanted, you don't really have much to use your enchant levels with beyond repairs... way to get nametags would be awesome...although it would make it "no longer vanilla" Its your call 5thhorseman...but it might raise the awesomeness of the map...as the ability to give mobs names, would give video makers more things to record and maybe come up with new ideas to make videos of.
EDIT: About the animal spawning, no need to worry about ocelots, it seems they aren't included in the limit of passive mobs, as nearby the jungle biome, I have 32 sheep (2 of each of the 16 colors) and I'm still getting a bunch of Ocelots spawning in the jungle. Not sure about wolves, horses, or donkeys, as I started my map pre-horse update...so i don't think i can get horses to spawn anyway...but other then that, I haven't seen any wild wolves. (I already have 2, so I really haven't looked nor cared) as for the other animals, i have at least 8 of everything (Pigs, cows, mooshrooms, and chickens). Btw...I'm glad I have my villagers in separate fenced in spots...as I've been building my House above my iron golem farm...(hopefully out of hearing range for the annoying villager sounds) and I had to get more supplies and I forgot to light it up, and a zombie got into one of my villager pens...(after I heard the zombie noises, and went to check it out) So now I need to re-sort my villagers as now one of my pens is empty...Morning came and toasted them all. down to 12 villagers, but they'll repopulate soon enough. After I get my house built, I'll try to get a tour video uploaded. (kinda didn't want to record with my house unfinished)
Oh if they're in the game they're vanilla. I am not opposed to adding a chest full of them except it's such a small thing to add for a full update. The map update process is far from simple and anybody who's established in their map won't get the bonuses.
I have no moral objections to hacking in a chestful of the things, either.
Having access to nametags would be kind of cool, it is a shame they aren't craftable. (They have a secondary minor benefit, friendly or hostile mobs that have been renamed with a nametag will never de-spawn! Also, if you rename a mob as "Dinnerbone", it will appear upside-down!)
Probably not worth adding to the map, though, I just use signs to label my villager trades (after I isolate them).
If you have another reason to re-do the map, it might be cool to have the two villagers already named by tags at the start, though? Tweedledee and Tweedledumb? Tom and Jerry? Dumb and Dumber? Paper Guy and Restone Gal?
Infinite trade would be handy, but then you have less reason to make an early village. It would also mean a crazy amount of emeralds, and less point in building a "villager purifier" to supplement villager breeding.
Yeah, trading for tons of redstone is frequently a pain. I once lost 2 full stacks of redstone to an angry mob of zombie pigmen. Sad day on my OceanBlock
So there is apparently a way to make trading truly infinite. I've been watching a bunch of Mindcrack videos recently, and instead of having lots and lots of different villagers to trade with, Docm77 is in the process of trying to get just a few of what he calls "perfect villagers". Here is the idea:
A villager never locks its last trade
A villager can only have a finite number of trades (one per possible item based on the villager type)
So if you unlock all of a villager's trades, their last trade can be executed infinitely
If that last trade is useful (paper or iron for emeralds), then this is a "perfect villager"
If any earlier trade become locked, just re-execute the last (infinite) trade
No new offers can be unlocked, but prior offers can be improved, until all items are offered at best rates
(Is #1 actually true? The wiki appears to confirm it, but I could have sworn I've rarely had a last trade get locked.)
So his "perfect librarian" is one that has all 9 trades unlocked, with the paper trade in the last slot.
His "perfect blacksmith" is one that has all 26 trades unlocked, with iron (or perhaps coal) trade in the last slot. Docm doesn't mention it, but I would think a "perfect" farmer/butcher would have raw meat, wool, or wheat in the last slot. A perfect Priest might have redstone as the last trade?)
This may involve spending a lot of emeralds to unlock enough trades to find your perfect villagers. The problem with Librarians is that the trade for Gold is actually the rarest (0.2666%), so has a good chance to be the last trade unlocked. He currently has two "near-perfect" librarians, with the paper trade in the 8th spot, with the gold trade so far refusing to unlock (leaving the paper trade available). , he traded paper for 2 stacks of emeralds in one shot, and went on to unlock 17 trades with his blacksmith, still hoping the iron trade will be last.
So this seems like a lot of work to do, but eventually you could end up with a very small number of "perfect villagers" to trade with, instead of managing a ton like I have to do (plus maybe extra librarians/priests with different enchanting/enchanted books offers).
What I'm not entirely clear on is how enchanted books (librarians) and enchanted tools (Priests) work in this scenario. I believe that each different tool that can be enchanted by a priest (iron sword, diamond pickaxe, etc) is a different trade slot, but can the offered enchantment for a single item change?
Can a librarian change his enchanted book offer? Or only change price? (And does that price go up or down?)
If you have another reason to re-do the map, it might be cool to have the two villagers already named by tags at the start, though? Tweedledee and Tweedledumb? Tom and Jerry? Dumb and Dumber? Paper Guy and Restone Gal?
I refer to them as "Pappy" and "Red"
"perfect villagers"
I've actually thought about this, but never did the legwork and research to see what is needed. The perfect librarian is probably the easiest to get done especially if you start with a guy who already has a gold trade. I'm surprised it's just 9 trades. That seems pretty easy though the last few have got to be a chore to get even if you do start with gold. I guess what would make them perfect in Oceanblock is a paper trade, but I'd be happy also with buying a bookshelf as the final trade. They're pretty cheap and at worst you can eventually break them down and sell the books back to him, likely for the exact number of emeralds you paid for the shelves. The perfect butcher wouldn't be too bad either, with any "buy cooked meat" trade last or (my favorite) buying (char)coal. Though with the probability of that one, I can't see expecting it to show up last very often.
I'd assume the book enchant can change, but only if the cost is lower than the last one. It probably generates a random book enchant for a random cost, and then (like with any other trade) sees if there's already a book enchant for more money already there. I'd like to test it though and you need to test to see what happens when the cost is the same, as there's no way to know how they programmed that even by guessing.
I've actually thought about this, but never did the legwork and research to see what is needed. The perfect librarian is probably the easiest to get done especially if you start with a guy who already has a gold trade. I'm surprised it's just 9 trades. That seems pretty easy though the last few have got to be a chore to get even if you do start with gold. I guess what would make them perfect in Oceanblock is a paper trade, but I'd be happy also with buying a bookshelf as the final trade. They're pretty cheap and at worst you can eventually break them down and sell the books back to him, likely for the exact number of emeralds you paid for the shelves. The perfect butcher wouldn't be too bad either, with any "buy cooked meat" trade last or (my favorite) buying (char)coal. Though with the probability of that one, I can't see expecting it to show up last very often.I'd assume the book enchant can change, but only if the cost is lower than the last one. It probably generates a random book enchant for a random cost, and then (like with any other trade) sees if there's already a book enchant for more money already there. I'd like to test it though and you need to test to see what happens when the cost is the same, as there's no way to know how they programmed that even by guessing.
Ok, I've done some pretty extensive testing in creative, here is what I have found:
Priests:
Priests maintain a separate trade slot for each different item they can enchant, so there are a max 13 trade slots
The price of an Eye of Ender can improve (from a max of 10 to a min of 7)
Other items (Redstone, Glowstone, Bottle o' Enchanting) all cost 1 emerald for 2-4 items. Minecraft only compares the emerald cost (1), which can't be improved, so the original offered product amount (even if it is only 2 redstone) is locked in.
Enchants cost 2-4 emerald, this cost has no bearing on the quality of the enchantment.
Enchants that that cost 3 or 4 emerald can be replaced with a new lower cost enchantment (on the same item), which could be better or worse (randomly chosen).
An enchant that costs 2 emerald cannot be overridden (it can be locked, of course, if it isn't in the last slot).
So the bottom line is: a 2-emerald enchant is forever, a 3 or 4-emerald enchant is at risk of being overridden by a new one. If you have a really awesome 3 or 4-emerald enchant, use it as many times as possible (until it gets locked) before executing the priest's last trade.
Librarians:
In all my testing, I never found a librarian that offered a gold trade. These either no longer exists, or are now exceptionally rare. Docm77 may already have 2 perfect librarians!
Excluding gold, there are 8 possible trade slots for librarians
A librarian buying paper can improve the trade, so over time they should take 24 or 25 paper per emerald
A librarian only has a single trade slot for enchanted books.
The price of the book varies widely, and depends on the level of the enchantment (from the wiki):
Level 1: 5 to 19 emeralds
Level 2: 8 to 32 emeralds
Level 3: 11 to 45 emeralds
Level 4: 14 to 58 emeralds
Level 5: 17 to 71 emeralds
I cannot confirm levels higher than 64, the highest I saw in testing was 62 emeralds. Has anyone actually seen a trade that cost 65 or higher? Is it possible to execute?
This cost is based solely on the "enchantment level", not rarity. Silk Touch 1 and Infinity 1 and Sharpness 1 will all cost 5 to 19.
As far as I can tell, cost within the above range is truly random, and is not based on how "good" the actual enchantment turns out to be.
A higher-priced enchanted book can only be replaced by a lower-priced enchanted book (with a new random enchantment). This means that (generally speaking), the quality of the book offer decreases over time.
The bottom line is that only an enchanted book offer for 5 emeralds is truly (permanently) safe, anything else can be overwritten by a lower-priced (and newly random) book offer.So, as I describe above, if you have a book offer you really, really like, you should buy as many as you can before executing the last trade.This also means that getting a good variety of enchanted book offers will probably require a steady supply of new librarians.
I didn't test farmers or butchers, but based on their trade lists I don't see any weird situations; getting a "perfect villager" should be easy enough, and all their trades should improve over time after being unlocked.
oh wow...that is amazing! good work on the testing...didn't even think about the possibility for "perfect villagers" Kudos to you MegaTrain...If i could click that little up arrow more then once, I would spam it like there's no tomorrow...lol
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Wisemen say forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza.
Once again MegaTrain comes through with some awesome villager analysis. Now to incorporate that into a MegaVillage 2.0!
I don't think I've ever seen a librarian with a gold trade, either. I agree that it must not just be rare, but impossible. Makes them even easier to fully perfect.
I've been tampering with my own variations of MegaVillage...trying to find a way to keep the villagers from huddling in a corner, but without messing up the spawn locations for iron golems, and I believe I have found a solution. Here is a snapshot of the village...(don't mind the colorfulness, was just playing around with stained clay blocks while testing it out. (I wanted to make a video of it, but for some reason, when I did my voice was so low, you could barely hear me and I have my mic volume at max!)
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Wisemen say forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza.
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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I'm having really bad luck with the jungle trees! First one dropped no saplings, so I cheated 2 in, grew those 2, only one dropped a single sapling, and now that one dropped none - so off to cheat another 2 in =P Jungle trees are so temperamental!
Ok, I've done some pretty extensive testing in creative, here is what I have found:
-- snip --
I didn't test farmers or butchers, but based on their trade lists I don't see any weird situations; getting a "perfect villager" should be easy enough, and all their trades should improve over time after being unlocked.
All I can say is: WOW, when did Mojang make these changes to villager trading?
Keep in mind: It used to be that since trades could "run out", and the pricing was so horribly imbalanced, mathematically you had to reach the point where everyone wanted to sell you stuff (take your emeralds), and no one would buy your stuff (give you emeralds), making future trades impossible. But if you now can have a "permanent trade", making it possible to always get emeralds ... yeish, imagine what a sugar cane farm can do now.
Alright, so as bad as the trading prices are, with an exploit like this in, you need them that bad.
We really needed a proper sense of "supply/demand" and varying pricing levels.
(In regard to a mod that gives realistic animal genetics):
Would you really rather have bees that make diamonds and oil with magical genetic blocks?
... did I really ask that?
So, I'm nearly through with my challenges, but hit this one:
Get a tool, weapon, or armor with at least 2 level-IV enchantments
Quite a few enchantments only go up to level 3 (unbreaking, looting, fortune, thorns, respiration).
Other high-level enchants can't be put on the same item (sharpness vs smite, protection vs fire protection).
As far as I can tell, there is only one way to get a single item with two level-IV or better enchantments: a pair of boots with Feather Falling IV + Protection IV (or Fire, Blast or Projectile Protection).
Am I missing a valid combination? Was this the intention of the challenge, or was this an oversight?
So, I'm nearly through with my challenges, but hit this one:
Get a tool, weapon, or armor with at least 2 level-IV enchantments
Am I missing a valid combination? Was this the intention of the challenge, or was this an oversight?
It is very likely an oversight. That is a goal that has been passed down through every version of OceanBlock and Pancake Survival from ... version 2 I think, which came out the same time Enchanting came out. At the time I looked through the list on the wiki, saw several level-4 enchantments, and made the challenge. I never really looked to see if it was reasonable or even possible.
I see no reason to not change it to "at least 2 level-3 enchantments" which is hard enough, really.
It is very likely an oversight. That is a goal that has been passed down through every version of OceanBlock and Pancake Survival from ... version 2 I think, which came out the same time Enchanting came out. At the time I looked through the list on the wiki, saw several level-4 enchantments, and made the challenge. I never really looked to see if it was reasonable or even possible.
I see no reason to not change it to "at least 2 level-3 enchantments" which is hard enough, really.
Well, now I'm determined to actually get the challenge as listed. Not sure if others actually did this as written, or perhaps if they interpreted it as "two items with level-IV enchants" or something else.
I'm going for 30-level enchants on golden boots, which are the most enchantable. No luck so far, one Prot IV and one Proj Prot IV. If I can get one with only Feather Falling 4, hopefully I can combine them.
Actually it wasn't when enchanting came out, it was when anvils came out! I remember now because I figured anvils made it super easy. Apparently they merely make it (potentially! hopefully they're not too expensive) possible.
with Enchanting+Anvils+Enchanted Books, it IS possible for things to have more then 1 Level IV enchantment...You can have a Sword with Sharpness IV and Unbreaking IV...unless they lowered the limit on Unbreaking
EDIT: Unbreaking doesn't go past III, my bad.
But You can give something like an Axe with Sharpness IV and Efficiency IV through Anvil and Enchanted Books...
If you do change it to "an item with 2 level-3 enchantments" then I have that complete, as I have an Iron axe with Efficiency III and Unbreaking III, that a Villager Enchanted for me.
Oh so long as it's possible I'm cool leaving it as-is, though I did not intend it to be a grind-fest, just proof that you used your anvil, enchantment table, possibly villager trades and/or some books, multiple items, and a healthy dose of experience levels
5thHorseman THANK YOU for making a wonderful survival map to make a series on! The final episode has come out today of Turbo's and my series on Oceanblock! It was a fun and rewarding experience and I look forward to seeing your future work.
EDIT: About the animal spawning, no need to worry about ocelots, it seems they aren't included in the limit of passive mobs, as nearby the jungle biome, I have 32 sheep (2 of each of the 16 colors) and I'm still getting a bunch of Ocelots spawning in the jungle. Not sure about wolves, horses, or donkeys, as I started my map pre-horse update...so i don't think i can get horses to spawn anyway...but other then that, I haven't seen any wild wolves. (I already have 2, so I really haven't looked nor cared) as for the other animals, i have at least 8 of everything (Pigs, cows, mooshrooms, and chickens). Btw...I'm glad I have my villagers in separate fenced in spots...as I've been building my House above my iron golem farm...(hopefully out of hearing range for the annoying villager sounds) and I had to get more supplies and I forgot to light it up, and a zombie got into one of my villager pens...(after I heard the zombie noises, and went to check it out) So now I need to re-sort my villagers as now one of my pens is empty...Morning came and toasted them all. down to 12 villagers, but they'll repopulate soon enough. After I get my house built, I'll try to get a tour video uploaded. (kinda didn't want to record with my house unfinished)
I have no moral objections to hacking in a chestful of the things, either.
Did you know I write Science Fiction? Well I do. Check it out at http://planetretcon.com/books/
Probably not worth adding to the map, though, I just use signs to label my villager trades (after I isolate them).
If you have another reason to re-do the map, it might be cool to have the two villagers already named by tags at the start, though? Tweedledee and Tweedledumb? Tom and Jerry? Dumb and Dumber? Paper Guy and Restone Gal?
Yeah, trading for tons of redstone is frequently a pain. I once lost 2 full stacks of redstone to an angry mob of zombie pigmen. Sad day on my OceanBlock
So there is apparently a way to make trading truly infinite. I've been watching a bunch of Mindcrack videos recently, and instead of having lots and lots of different villagers to trade with, Docm77 is in the process of trying to get just a few of what he calls "perfect villagers". Here is the idea:
So his "perfect librarian" is one that has all 9 trades unlocked, with the paper trade in the last slot.
His "perfect blacksmith" is one that has all 26 trades unlocked, with iron (or perhaps coal) trade in the last slot.
Docm doesn't mention it, but I would think a "perfect" farmer/butcher would have raw meat, wool, or wheat in the last slot. A perfect Priest might have redstone as the last trade?)
This may involve spending a lot of emeralds to unlock enough trades to find your perfect villagers. The problem with Librarians is that the trade for Gold is actually the rarest (0.2666%), so has a good chance to be the last trade unlocked. He currently has two "near-perfect" librarians, with the paper trade in the 8th spot, with the gold trade so far refusing to unlock (leaving the paper trade available). , he traded paper for 2 stacks of emeralds in one shot, and went on to unlock 17 trades with his blacksmith, still hoping the iron trade will be last.
So this seems like a lot of work to do, but eventually you could end up with a very small number of "perfect villagers" to trade with, instead of managing a ton like I have to do (plus maybe extra librarians/priests with different enchanting/enchanted books offers).
What I'm not entirely clear on is how enchanted books (librarians) and enchanted tools (Priests) work in this scenario. I believe that each different tool that can be enchanted by a priest (iron sword, diamond pickaxe, etc) is a different trade slot, but can the offered enchantment for a single item change?
Can a librarian change his enchanted book offer? Or only change price? (And does that price go up or down?)
I refer to them as "Pappy" and "Red"
I've actually thought about this, but never did the legwork and research to see what is needed. The perfect librarian is probably the easiest to get done especially if you start with a guy who already has a gold trade. I'm surprised it's just 9 trades. That seems pretty easy though the last few have got to be a chore to get even if you do start with gold. I guess what would make them perfect in Oceanblock is a paper trade, but I'd be happy also with buying a bookshelf as the final trade. They're pretty cheap and at worst you can eventually break them down and sell the books back to him, likely for the exact number of emeralds you paid for the shelves. The perfect butcher wouldn't be too bad either, with any "buy cooked meat" trade last or (my favorite) buying (char)coal. Though with the probability of that one, I can't see expecting it to show up last very often.
I'd assume the book enchant can change, but only if the cost is lower than the last one. It probably generates a random book enchant for a random cost, and then (like with any other trade) sees if there's already a book enchant for more money already there. I'd like to test it though and you need to test to see what happens when the cost is the same, as there's no way to know how they programmed that even by guessing.
Did you know I write Science Fiction? Well I do. Check it out at http://planetretcon.com/books/
Priests:
Librarians:
I didn't test farmers or butchers, but based on their trade lists I don't see any weird situations; getting a "perfect villager" should be easy enough, and all their trades should improve over time after being unlocked.
I don't think I've ever seen a librarian with a gold trade, either. I agree that it must not just be rare, but impossible. Makes them even easier to fully perfect.
Did you know I write Science Fiction? Well I do. Check it out at http://planetretcon.com/books/
Did you know I write Science Fiction? Well I do. Check it out at http://planetretcon.com/books/
All I can say is: WOW, when did Mojang make these changes to villager trading?
Keep in mind: It used to be that since trades could "run out", and the pricing was so horribly imbalanced, mathematically you had to reach the point where everyone wanted to sell you stuff (take your emeralds), and no one would buy your stuff (give you emeralds), making future trades impossible. But if you now can have a "permanent trade", making it possible to always get emeralds ... yeish, imagine what a sugar cane farm can do now.
Alright, so as bad as the trading prices are, with an exploit like this in, you need them that bad.
We really needed a proper sense of "supply/demand" and varying pricing levels.
* Promoting this week: Captive Minecraft 4, Winter Realm. Aka: Vertical Vanilla Viewing. Clicky!
* My channel with Mystcraft, and general Minecraft Let's Plays: http://www.youtube.com/user/Keybounce.
* See all my video series: http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-editions/minecraft-editions-show-your/2865421-keybounces-list-of-creation-threads
(In regard to a mod that gives realistic animal genetics):
Would you really rather have bees that make diamonds and oil with magical genetic blocks?
... did I really ask that?
Other high-level enchants can't be put on the same item (sharpness vs smite, protection vs fire protection).
As far as I can tell, there is only one way to get a single item with two level-IV or better enchantments: a pair of boots with Feather Falling IV + Protection IV (or Fire, Blast or Projectile Protection).
Am I missing a valid combination? Was this the intention of the challenge, or was this an oversight?
It is very likely an oversight. That is a goal that has been passed down through every version of OceanBlock and Pancake Survival from ... version 2 I think, which came out the same time Enchanting came out. At the time I looked through the list on the wiki, saw several level-4 enchantments, and made the challenge. I never really looked to see if it was reasonable or even possible.
I see no reason to not change it to "at least 2 level-3 enchantments" which is hard enough, really.
Did you know I write Science Fiction? Well I do. Check it out at http://planetretcon.com/books/
Well, now I'm determined to actually get the challenge as listed. Not sure if others actually did this as written, or perhaps if they interpreted it as "two items with level-IV enchants" or something else.
I'm going for 30-level enchants on golden boots, which are the most enchantable. No luck so far, one Prot IV and one Proj Prot IV. If I can get one with only Feather Falling 4, hopefully I can combine them.
Did you know I write Science Fiction? Well I do. Check it out at http://planetretcon.com/books/
You can have a Sword with Sharpness IV and Unbreaking IV...unless they lowered the limit on UnbreakingEDIT: Unbreaking doesn't go past III, my bad.
But You can give something like an Axe with Sharpness IV and Efficiency IV through Anvil and Enchanted Books...
If you do change it to "an item with 2 level-3 enchantments" then I have that complete, as I have an Iron axe with Efficiency III and Unbreaking III, that a Villager Enchanted for me.
Did you know I write Science Fiction? Well I do. Check it out at http://planetretcon.com/books/
Long time fan, Platinum.
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