I consider minecraft to be a steampunk-type game (Lots of mechanical things) with heavy fantasy elements.
Coal (steam) powered minecarts, pseudo-electricity, and mechanical pistons, yet we still use swords and bows, we travel to other dimensions, and we will (soon) be fighting dragons when choose to do so.
Warhammer 40k is sort of steampunk, yet you can do all that crazy stuff that technology allows. So I guess I agree as well?
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
(The guy decided to put his extended description in a comment rather than put it in the OP. So just look for his first comment.)
People use it too often, and it is almost beyond annoying so it still stands that people who go to threads and waste space just to add a useless "it doesnt fit with the setting" should get a warning. And that idea the OP made isnt necessarily bad. If people extended and elaborated on the idea with him rather than try so hard to think of every idea in the world they could think of why the idea was bad, it might have sounded more appealing.
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
It's survival married to mysticism with a dash of quirkyness.
What I mean by quirkyness is TNT, cake, bed blowing up in nether, things like that.
It DOES have a theme, it's just a complex one..
Notch likes to think randomly and outside the box as much as he can,
hence why there is no demons, netherchickens, space shuttles and werewolves.
So Enderman arent demons? Anyways you ignore the great points people have made and dont provide any really good points as to why the game shouldnt feature "demons, netherchickens, space shuttles and werewolves". You make a great point about the games quirkyness though.
I know adding highly technological things would be 'cool', but I'm sure if he wanted to he would have already done it.
"If its not in the game already, then it wasnt ever a good idea": weak logic.
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Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
"It doesn't fit the setting" is a perfectly valid argument. Just because you don't agree with it that doesn't mean that it isn't correct.
Whether you like it or not Minecraft does have a very strong fantasy setting, and just throwing it out the window because you want space and plasma rifles isn't valid.I agree that a mixture of magic and technology is an intriguing idea but for minecraft, it just doesn't work.
And if you absolutely want a plasma rifle in Minecraft, well that's what mods are for.
So why is "It doesn't fit the setting" an invalid argument? Because there is nothing to support it and honestly it is pathetic. You admit "sci fi and fantasy mixing is intrigueing" but it "just doesnt work" and provide nothing to support why it "doesnt work". You THINK it doesnt work, and leave your mind relatively closed and stubborn and hard, even though you do sense that it COULD work. And like everyone on this thread, you just completely ignore the good points some have made, as if you never even read them; which is likely.
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
I knew you were going to bring up the demon thing, I should have put this before but..
When people talk about demons it's always like a black wolf or a ghost thing or something.
Enderman are totally the epitome of randomness. Long limbs, only get angry when you stare at them, it does borderline demon but is very unique nonetheless.
These points are valid enough to see that most here don't want advanced stuuf but... I like advanced stuuf, (I like writing stuff like stuuf for no reason at all) advanced stuff can add more to a game not ruin it completely. The least Notch could actually give us is more ores and more advanced wiring items and slightly maybe some clockwork items? If you look at Terraria for an example, it has guns, yes. It has bosses, yes. It has some advanced stuff but it still keeps its groove doesn't it? Anyways i agree with you!
Theme does not simply rely on something being archetypical of a setting; it also refers to something fitting well within the lore, progression, and feasibility of the setting without seeming anachronistic or forcing other items into an anachronistic setting.
This goes inline with a few logical fallacies about technological improvements. (IE. a society that has discovered archery does not necessarily possess knowledge of bridges and vice versa)
The next point is: "Doesn't fit" is a perfectly valid argument against the inclusion into Minecraft as this is (among a grocery-shopping list of other reasons) one of the primary reasons against gunpowder weaponry. Even Notch has denied guns with "Doesn't fit!" while rolling his eyes dismissively. Perhaps he should be warned by the admins of MCF for his grievous infraction.
A system like "Why Minecraft should not be an RPG" is not an example of "wouldn't fit" but more of an example of why some common RPG elements would not jive right with Minecraft as it is a different entity. The concept and rationale behind that thread was not thematic in reason, it was a plea for the readers to not give into the bland normalcy of mundane RPG systems but to instead become creative with their implementations.
However, I do agree that this is a cop-out. Crying "doesn't fit" when the critic can't find another legitimate complaint is obnoxious and doesn't help the suggestion. A critic whom latches onto his last defiant cry only villifies himself while forcing the OP and defenders of the suggestion (everyone else) to waste time and piggy-back eachother's sentiment which creates a very dejected feeling from the critic whom has what he feels is a legitimate argument.
TL;DR: The issue is not with the critique ("Doesn't fit", "Use search", "There's a mod for that"), the issue is with the usage of these critiques.
I've said it before: A good critic is going to have at least 3 strong critical points against the suggestion unless he likes it. Even then, a critic should always have at least 1. The critic should also be rational and compromising. If the suggestion is gold with 10+ net positives and only 1 minor negative, will the 1 minor negative truly hamper gameplay that badly to where it should not be included?
Because of my above views, I feel it would not be a good idea to make this a warnable offense, though it would be a good practice to avoid using this as a solitary reason for denial.
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EDIT:
Change the polls. They are biased.
Minecraft is not set on a specific time. However, not enough into the future for plasma rifles or time travel and not enough into the past to feature way too much fantasy (werewolves, mages, etc).
Theme does not simply rely on something being archetypical of a setting; it also refers to something fitting well within the lore, progression, and feasibility of the setting without seeming anachronistic or forcing other items into an anachronistic setting.
Yeah, since we all know Minecraft has a story /sarcasm.
This goes inline with a few logical fallacies about technological improvements. (IE. a society that has discovered archery does not necessarily possess knowledge of bridges and vice versa)
Irrelevant; Minecraft is not a realistic game nor was it ever.
The next point is: "Doesn't fit" is a perfectly valid argument against the inclusion into Minecraft as this is (among a grocery-shopping list of other reasons)
You have a list of actual logic filled reasons for why there shouldnt be technology in Minecraft? Really?
one of the primary reasons against gunpowder weaponry. Even Notch has denied guns with "Doesn't fit!" while rolling his eyes dismissively. Perhaps he should be warned by the admins of MCF for his grievous infraction.
I dont care if Notch said it didnt fit; he is prone to changing his mind, just like with deciding to make the moon/sun round (which I enjoyed).
A system like "Why Minecraft should not be an RPG" is not an example of "wouldn't fit" but more of an example of why some common RPG elements would not jive right with Minecraft as it is a different entity. The concept and rationale behind that thread was not thematic in reason, it was a plea for the readers to not give into the bland normalcy of mundane RPG systems but to instead become creative with their implementations
I have not read that thread and do not know what your talking about. I however support RPG elements in Minecraft, so long as they do not overpower the building and mineing gameplay already featured.
However, I do agree that this is a cop-out. Crying "doesn't fit" when the critic can't find another legitimate complaint is obnoxious and doesn't help the suggestion. A critic whom latches onto his last defiant cry only villifies himself while forcing the OP and defenders of the suggestion (everyone else) to waste time and piggy-back eachother's sentiment which creates a very dejected feeling from the critic whom has what he feels is a legitimate argument
Now your starting to make sense.
TL;DR: The issue is not with the critique ("Doesn't fit", "Use search", "There's a mod for that"), the issue is with the usage of these critiques
Your saying that when "doesnt fit" when used in the right way is acceptable. More or less true but not in this case.
I've said it before: A good critic is going to have at least 3 strong critical points against the suggestion unless he likes it. Even then, a critic should always have at least 1. The critic should also be rational and compromising. If the suggestion is gold with 10+ net positives and only 1 minor negative, will the 1 minor negative truly hamper gameplay that badly to where it should not be included?
Because of my above views, I feel it would not be a good idea to make this a warnable offense, though it would be a good practice to avoid using this as a solitary reason for denial
Theres plenty of reason to make "doesnt fit" and similar trespasses warnable offenses, and youve supplied most of the reasons why. Why would you suddenly back off and not support it?
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
In the time minecraft is set, I highley doubt people would even have been able to generate bio-mecular energy sources leading to generate anti matter to create nucluar explosion that create enough power to send a man flying through time and space. Oh wait. We still can't do that now.
Invalid argument: Minecraft is not a realistic game nor was it ever.
If you want to travel through time, get a mod, I don't want to hear about you whine because people have a fair and honest opinion.
Really the mod thing? Your comment is more of a whine than any really.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
I think that they are taking it too far with the medieval setting and the RPG in Minecraft, Endermen are annoying, The End is useless, The Nether is even more useless now that ZPMs don't drop Cooked Pork. There's so many things wrong with Minecraft, and so many forgotten roads way back that could fix the problems at hand.
To your ideas, space travel should never, ever happen, nor should nuclear reactors or other sci-fi things, but I think Mojang should expand on the technology aspect, and stop making cruddy RPG aspects.
Yeah, since we all know Minecraft has a story /sarcasm.
It doesn't need a story to have a theme and progression and lore. Hell, the very simple inclusion of redstone has lore written all over it.
Irrelevant; Minecraft is not a realistic game nor was it ever.
How is this irrelevant? I wasn't speaking of realism (unless you was assuming I was), I was simply stating that you cannot assume that the game has progressed in a similar fashion to the real world. That does not follow.
You have a list of actual logic filled reasons for why there shouldnt be technology in Minecraft? Really?
yes, and I was hoping I wouldn't have to list them for the sake of brevity. However, if you require me to create a multi-faceted list, I can draw one up. Also, HOW THE **** DID YOU LINK A DENIAL OF TECHNOLOGY TO A DENIAL OF GUNS? I DIDN'T ****ING SAY THAT, don't put words in my mouth!
I dont care if Notch said it didnt fit; he is prone to changing his mind, just like with deciding to make the moon/sun round (which I enjoyed).
Yes, he has changed his mind about many issues (generally due to the encouragements from Jeb). I, too, happen to be human and prone to changing my mind. However, if I find something tacky or out of place as one of my intrinsic human perceptions, that's a mighty hill to climb to alter one's point of view.
I have not read that thread and do not know what your talking about. I however support RPG elements in Minecraft, so long as they do not overpower the building and mineing gameplay already featured.
That reply was not directed solely at you; however I believe it still had bearing here. I also don't know what threads you have or have not visited and am not interested either. Your point of view also does not discuss the implications I discussed in regards to that thread.
Now your starting to make sense.
I'm starting to make sense because I feel the same as you? I respect your point of view and your opinion and can understand how and why you feel the way you do; perhaps you should do the same. Simply because I have an opposing point of view doesn't mean I don't make sense. That type of sentiment tends to annoy the **** out of me.
Your saying that when "doesnt fit" when used in the right way is acceptable. More or less true but not in this case.
I'm saying that any critic needs to have multiple reasons for plausible deniability. If there is a suggestion with 10+ positives and 1 negative, than the suggestion is overall POSITIVE, not overall negative. The problem is simply that people are allowed anonymous posting, unrestricted(limitedly) speech, and lack of penalty which turns your average poster into an enormous douche.
Theres plenty of reason to make "doesnt fit" and similar trespasses warnable offenses, and youve supplied most of the reasons why. Why would you suddenly back off and not support it?
It is all a matter of spam and respect. If I provide sufficient reason why "doesn't fit" would be a sound argument or at least entertain the OP, why should I be slammed with a warning? It's my honest point of view and I should not be punished for it.
Again, the problem is NOT with the "trespass" the problem is with the respect. Hell, if EVERYTHING is a warnable offense then I could simply be banned for denying a suggestion without regard (at all) to any suppliant reason. The major problem is the more-likely-than-naught slippery slope that this suggestion would cause.
This would severely limit personal freedom, the original poster would not receive any feedback due to responder fear of warn/ban and horribly shitty ideas would go unchecked and unrestrained turning the suggestion board into an even more steaming seething pot of rancid ****.
Really? How?
You asked if I was annoyed with people posting "Doesn't fit" with answers:
"yes"
"I'm one of them."
The problem is, I am not one of them, and it also doesn't bother me, therefore my answer is "no" which has no possible transliteration in your poll without self-condemnation.
Essentially, it's a **** move, and you're being a ****. It's not a my-way or highway deal. I don't know if it has occurred to you (more than likely not) but there are BILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD, AND THEY ALL HAVE A DIFFERENT THOUGHT PROCESS THAN YOU. In fact, occasionally, you will find people who disagree with you. High paid doctors, engineers, scientists, professors, whom can actually disagree with your point of view!
Get your head out of your ass, and try to get some oxygen into your brain.
It doesn't need a story to have a theme and progression and lore. Hell, the very simple inclusion of redstone has lore written all over it.
No, redstone does not have any lore.
How is this irrelevant? I wasn't speaking of realism (unless you [were] assuming I was), I was simply stating that you cannot assume that the game has progressed in a similar fashion to the real world. That does not follow.
So you cant assume the game can progress in a similar fashion to the real world even though the so called main character Steve is obviously human and wearing a t shirt and jeans?
yes, and I was hoping I wouldn't have to list them for the sake of brevity. However, if you require me to create a multi-faceted list, I can draw one up. Also, HOW THE **** DID YOU LINK A DENIAL OF TECHNOLOGY TO A DENIAL OF GUNS? I DIDN'T ****ING SAY THAT, don't put words in my mouth!
You said yourself "a good critic needs to give good reasons and a decent amount of them (paraphrase)", so yeah I expect you to be a good critic.
I'm starting to make sense because I feel the same as you? I respect your point of view and your opinion and can understand how and why you feel the way you do; perhaps you should do the same. Simply because I have an opposing point of view doesn't mean I don't make sense. That type of sentiment tends to annoy the **** out of me.
So your mad at me because I called a few comments of your into doubt? Get over it. Reply back and prove me wrong/compromise/etc you know like a "good critic" instead of flaming me, because I most certainly did not flame you. I may have been a bit sarcastic but seriously get over it.
I'm saying that any critic needs to have multiple reasons for plausible deniability. If there is a suggestion with 10+ positives and 1 negative, than the suggestion is overall POSITIVE, not overall negative. The problem is simply that people are allowed anonymous posting, unrestricted(limitedly) speech, and lack of penalty which turns your average poster into an enormous douche.
We agree really we do, so why are we at odds?
It is all a matter of spam and respect. If I provide sufficient reason why "doesn't fit" would be a sound argument or at least entertain the OP, why should I be slammed with a warning? It's my honest point of view and I should not be punished for it.
Again, the problem is NOT with the "trespass" the problem is with the respect. Hell, if EVERYTHING is a warnable offense then I could simply be banned for denying a suggestion without regard (at all) to any suppliant reason. The major problem is the more-likely-than-naught slippery slope that this suggestion would cause.
This would severely limit personal freedom, the original poster would not receive any feedback due to responder fear of warn/ban and horribly shitty ideas would go unchecked and unrestrained turning the suggestion board into an even more steaming seething pot of rancid ****.
Your overthinking things: I am simply saying that the "bad critics" you described should recieve a warning, because they are short, and dont contribute to anything. And I never said anything about your comment getting a warning. Your a total flamer, but your semi logical at least. Maybe youve just completely misunderstood me or maybe I was too sarcastic.
You asked if I was annoyed with people posting "Doesn't fit" with answers:
"yes"
"I'm one of them."
The problem is, I am not one of them, and it also doesn't bother me, therefore my answer is "no" which has no possible transliteration in your poll without self-condemnation.
Essentially, it's a **** move, and you're being a ****. It's not a my-way or highway deal. I don't know if it has occurred to you (more than likely not) but there are BILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD, AND THEY ALL HAVE A DIFFERENT THOUGHT PROCESS THAN YOU. In fact, occasionally, you will find people who disagree with you. High paid doctors, engineers, scientists, professors, whom can actually disagree with your point of view!
"It doesnt fit" is largely an overrated and rediculous claim, used far too much by far too many people. I believe if you dont think its annoying, you have a problem and I dont care what you think. Im biased against ill logic.
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
I could go on about how technology could fit in with the game, but I would be repeating things. From the looks of it, many of you have neglected to read mine and others post's. GO BACK AND READ.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
i don't mind "it doesn't fit with the setting" as long as they have another reason not to like it.
minecraft is mostly fantasy, with a few other elements added to it. If the suggestion supports those elements (i.e sci fi) too much, it should be a mod rather than something in vanilla minecraft. but minecraft's changing, and before we know it it might even become sci fi without us knowing it!
Exactly: The day Minecraft decides to be part scifi would be no different than the day Minecraft suddenly decided it was a "Fantasy" game.
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
It is an unexplained phenomenon at odds with other well-explained objects in the game. There is no origin of the material nor is there an explanation for its electro-biological make-up. With all due respect, it has a great deal of lore.
So you cant assume the game can progress in a similar fashion to the real world even though the so called main character Steve is obviously human and wearing a t shirt and jeans?
Why would you? What's to say an alien race doesn't look remarkably human and given an English-friendly name by Notch? It's still a far stretch from the point (though I will admit that the point I provided is a bit tenuous toward the discussion) that one technology is intrinsically developed simply because it flows chronologically according to the next invention above it. Simply because a society has learned about a washing machine doesn't mean it knows of a toaster (or bread for that matter) though I will agree that certain technologies are understood stepping-stones toward the advancement of society (fire, masonry, and farming for civilization) and others henceforth.
When you are looking at an age-ambiguous game like Minecraft, it becomes difficult to determine what technologies would have developed if indeed they had developed at any point in the timeline.
You said yourself "a good critic needs to give good reasons and a decent amount of them (paraphrase)", so yeah I expect you to be a good critic.
/sigh
Most if not all gun concepts ask for ridiculously overpowered mechanics like arrow-fast reload times with double the damage of bows.
Most will try to balance them by breaking them into component builds. (explained on next point)
Component builds will not work as their only purpose is intermediate single-use plans for the complete product. When implemented into the game, the player must remember how to create the components in addition to forming the components into the completed part. I am baffled at how books and bookshelves were able to be made those points considered.
If they do not wish to implement component building, they offer instead a prolonged refill time while stating it as an upgraded bow (it isn't as it has a longer reload time and a different recipe).
If all of the other criticisms were invalid, the gun would either be vastly overpowered or vastly underpowered given an already provided alternative. This means that the gun would be redundant.
So your mad at me because I called a few comments of your into doubt? Get over it. Reply back and prove me wrong/compromise/etc you know like a "good critic" instead of flaming me, because I most certainly did not flame you. I may have been a bit sarcastic but seriously get over it.
I was not mad because you threw a few comments into doubt. Do so! I encourage it. I was angry because it seemed you only thought I was making sense because I agreed with you which is highly egotistical. Sarcasm is its own beast and I respect it; but an unfailing ego where "you're right and everyone should agree" needs to go away.
We agree really we do, so why are we at odds?
I agree on the premise that it can be a problem if abused (it can be done so easily), there are already circuits in play where members get punished for spam. Holding another rule over our heads is redundant (if you reduce the rules to basic functionality, they all link to respecting fellow members) and more draconic laws generally starve the population instead of improving it.
Your overthinking things: I am simply saying that the "bad critics" you described should recieve a warning, because they are short, and dont contribute to anything. And I never said anything about your comment getting a warning. Your a total flamer, but your semi logical at least. Maybe youve just completely misunderstood me or maybe I was too sarcastic.
I try not to overthink things, but I do like to predict outcomes. If your complaint comes to pass, then I simply predict others will come crying for more rules to pass to protect their future articles from the harsh truth. I've been on these forums for a while (check post count) and have seen hundreds of threads cry "if you don't liek, don't say nething and jus go away." to "Make it so saying already suggested is a warnable offense" which is a retaliatory act when someone provides a link to a far superior previous suggestion.
"It doesnt fit" is largely an overrated and rediculous claim, used far too much by far too many people. I believe if you dont think its annoying, you have a problem and I dont care what you think. Im biased against ill logic.
I don't find it annoying simply because I don't find it annoying. I probably wouldn't find it annoying if I saw it on a regular basis. It simply does not stimulate my emotive responses of frustration; though I do find the batshit crazy arguments and counterarguments thoroughly entertaining. 2 and 3 line posts do **** me off, "Doesn't fit" is perfect size for that; but perhaps you should instead of narrowing the scope, expand it so 2 or 3 word responses are against the rules (they are).
Given a list of complaints on a suggestion, which are you more likely to get pissed off at seeing?
I have an actual order to these things.
TL;DR - This one is like a gnat landing on an open wound.
AS (already suggested) - If you provide a source, you're fine. If you simply post that without searching, get off; you're no better than the original poster.
USE SEARCH - They probably have anyway... The point is, you have not provided a source. Again, don't sink to OPs level.
You're totally copying ____ (insert game) - and your referenced game is copying pong. Get over it.
Just be nice! - Nice doesn't do **** but mislead the OP. I prefer being honest. Honest and Nice do not play well together. Occasionally, you can do both. But in the end, sugarcoating that razorblade doesn't change the fact that it's a razor blade (in fact, it only makes it more sharp)
I agree! 1.48x1032 smilies - this one is kind of obvious.
{quote entire long-ass post} I agree - I read it once! Snip that ****!
Anything about endermen
Anything about guns
Anything about nukes
Anything about wolves
... some ways down the list...
"Doesn't fit"
Like, that's so far down my radar, I don't even think I can pick it up. Because of that... "No, I am not bothered by it... ALSO, no I don't do it either." On that poll, I choose "none of the above".
Its a weak argument, and one that is used much too frequently. An idea whether good or bad is always scrutinized by this remark. The game already has redstone which is basically a sort of magic dust that makes technology possible and so if you were to create a sort of "plasma gun or something" it would be a "MAGIC plasma gun or something" which by definition fits in in with fantasy since it is MAGIC. I made a thread that detailed space travel, and how fantasy and scifi could get along just fine together, pleasing both parties. Magic will be in the game if you havent already heard, and so when I heard of this I dreamt of how one day Minecraft might feature an expansion allowing space travel and advanced technology, alongside otherworldly things making something like Star Ocean or Warhammer 40k, or something of the Final Fantasy series which feature just that, but no this idea was completely shot down.
People are entitled to their opinions. They are allowed to disagree with you. Also they even provide you with their reason. "It doesn't fit into their view of Minecraft's setting"
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-I got a fever, and the only prescription, is moar Minecraft.
My take on it is pretty simple. Minecraft has a style to it. Minecraft players, as a whole, like that style. Things which are a massive deviation from that style will harm it, thus things which are a massive deviation should not be implemented in vanilla minecraft.
It is my sincere hope that minecraft gets integrated mod support, because there are a LOT of cool ideas out there which I believe don't fit in to minecraft's style. A good example is buildcraft, which I've played with and is a phenomenal mod, but which I'd never want to see implemented in to the vanilla game.
Warhammer 40k is sort of steampunk, yet you can do all that crazy stuff that technology allows. So I guess I agree as well?
People use it too often, and it is almost beyond annoying so it still stands that people who go to threads and waste space just to add a useless "it doesnt fit with the setting" should get a warning. And that idea the OP made isnt necessarily bad. If people extended and elaborated on the idea with him rather than try so hard to think of every idea in the world they could think of why the idea was bad, it might have sounded more appealing.
So Enderman arent demons? Anyways you ignore the great points people have made and dont provide any really good points as to why the game shouldnt feature "demons, netherchickens, space shuttles and werewolves". You make a great point about the games quirkyness though.
"If its not in the game already, then it wasnt ever a good idea": weak logic.
So why is "It doesn't fit the setting" an invalid argument? Because there is nothing to support it and honestly it is pathetic. You admit "sci fi and fantasy mixing is intrigueing" but it "just doesnt work" and provide nothing to support why it "doesnt work". You THINK it doesnt work, and leave your mind relatively closed and stubborn and hard, even though you do sense that it COULD work. And like everyone on this thread, you just completely ignore the good points some have made, as if you never even read them; which is likely.
When people talk about demons it's always like a black wolf or a ghost thing or something.
Enderman are totally the epitome of randomness. Long limbs, only get angry when you stare at them, it does borderline demon but is very unique nonetheless.
This goes inline with a few logical fallacies about technological improvements. (IE. a society that has discovered archery does not necessarily possess knowledge of bridges and vice versa)
The next point is: "Doesn't fit" is a perfectly valid argument against the inclusion into Minecraft as this is (among a grocery-shopping list of other reasons) one of the primary reasons against gunpowder weaponry. Even Notch has denied guns with "Doesn't fit!" while rolling his eyes dismissively. Perhaps he should be warned by the admins of MCF for his grievous infraction.
A system like "Why Minecraft should not be an RPG" is not an example of "wouldn't fit" but more of an example of why some common RPG elements would not jive right with Minecraft as it is a different entity. The concept and rationale behind that thread was not thematic in reason, it was a plea for the readers to not give into the bland normalcy of mundane RPG systems but to instead become creative with their implementations.
However, I do agree that this is a cop-out. Crying "doesn't fit" when the critic can't find another legitimate complaint is obnoxious and doesn't help the suggestion. A critic whom latches onto his last defiant cry only villifies himself while forcing the OP and defenders of the suggestion (everyone else) to waste time and piggy-back eachother's sentiment which creates a very dejected feeling from the critic whom has what he feels is a legitimate argument.
TL;DR: The issue is not with the critique ("Doesn't fit", "Use search", "There's a mod for that"), the issue is with the usage of these critiques.
I've said it before: A good critic is going to have at least 3 strong critical points against the suggestion unless he likes it. Even then, a critic should always have at least 1. The critic should also be rational and compromising. If the suggestion is gold with 10+ net positives and only 1 minor negative, will the 1 minor negative truly hamper gameplay that badly to where it should not be included?
Because of my above views, I feel it would not be a good idea to make this a warnable offense, though it would be a good practice to avoid using this as a solitary reason for denial.
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EDIT:
Change the polls. They are biased.
OFFICIAL POSTING/REPLYING GUIDELINES
UNOFFICIAL POSTING GUIDE (PRT)
UNOFFICIAL REPLYING GUIDE (FTC)
Yeah, since we all know Minecraft has a story /sarcasm.
Irrelevant; Minecraft is not a realistic game nor was it ever.
You have a list of actual logic filled reasons for why there shouldnt be technology in Minecraft? Really?
I dont care if Notch said it didnt fit; he is prone to changing his mind, just like with deciding to make the moon/sun round (which I enjoyed).
I have not read that thread and do not know what your talking about. I however support RPG elements in Minecraft, so long as they do not overpower the building and mineing gameplay already featured.
Now your starting to make sense.
Your saying that when "doesnt fit" when used in the right way is acceptable. More or less true but not in this case.
Theres plenty of reason to make "doesnt fit" and similar trespasses warnable offenses, and youve supplied most of the reasons why. Why would you suddenly back off and not support it?
Really? How?
Invalid argument: Minecraft is not a realistic game nor was it ever.
Really the mod thing? Your comment is more of a whine than any really.
To your ideas, space travel should never, ever happen, nor should nuclear reactors or other sci-fi things, but I think Mojang should expand on the technology aspect, and stop making cruddy RPG aspects.
There, I said it. Disagree all you want.
What's up? I'm the proud co-owner of a little ClassiCube server called Minebuild.
Click here to go to the thread for it!
Sometimes, you just need a little more cave.
How is this irrelevant? I wasn't speaking of realism (unless you was assuming I was), I was simply stating that you cannot assume that the game has progressed in a similar fashion to the real world. That does not follow.
yes, and I was hoping I wouldn't have to list them for the sake of brevity. However, if you require me to create a multi-faceted list, I can draw one up. Also, HOW THE **** DID YOU LINK A DENIAL OF TECHNOLOGY TO A DENIAL OF GUNS? I DIDN'T ****ING SAY THAT, don't put words in my mouth!
Yes, he has changed his mind about many issues (generally due to the encouragements from Jeb). I, too, happen to be human and prone to changing my mind. However, if I find something tacky or out of place as one of my intrinsic human perceptions, that's a mighty hill to climb to alter one's point of view.
That reply was not directed solely at you; however I believe it still had bearing here. I also don't know what threads you have or have not visited and am not interested either. Your point of view also does not discuss the implications I discussed in regards to that thread.
I'm starting to make sense because I feel the same as you? I respect your point of view and your opinion and can understand how and why you feel the way you do; perhaps you should do the same. Simply because I have an opposing point of view doesn't mean I don't make sense. That type of sentiment tends to annoy the **** out of me.
I'm saying that any critic needs to have multiple reasons for plausible deniability. If there is a suggestion with 10+ positives and 1 negative, than the suggestion is overall POSITIVE, not overall negative. The problem is simply that people are allowed anonymous posting, unrestricted(limitedly) speech, and lack of penalty which turns your average poster into an enormous douche.
It is all a matter of spam and respect. If I provide sufficient reason why "doesn't fit" would be a sound argument or at least entertain the OP, why should I be slammed with a warning? It's my honest point of view and I should not be punished for it.
Again, the problem is NOT with the "trespass" the problem is with the respect. Hell, if EVERYTHING is a warnable offense then I could simply be banned for denying a suggestion without regard (at all) to any suppliant reason. The major problem is the more-likely-than-naught slippery slope that this suggestion would cause.
This would severely limit personal freedom, the original poster would not receive any feedback due to responder fear of warn/ban and horribly shitty ideas would go unchecked and unrestrained turning the suggestion board into an even more steaming seething pot of rancid ****.
You asked if I was annoyed with people posting "Doesn't fit" with answers:
"yes"
"I'm one of them."
The problem is, I am not one of them, and it also doesn't bother me, therefore my answer is "no" which has no possible transliteration in your poll without self-condemnation.
Essentially, it's a **** move, and you're being a ****. It's not a my-way or highway deal. I don't know if it has occurred to you (more than likely not) but there are BILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD, AND THEY ALL HAVE A DIFFERENT THOUGHT PROCESS THAN YOU. In fact, occasionally, you will find people who disagree with you. High paid doctors, engineers, scientists, professors, whom can actually disagree with your point of view!
Get your head out of your ass, and try to get some oxygen into your brain.
OFFICIAL POSTING/REPLYING GUIDELINES
UNOFFICIAL POSTING GUIDE (PRT)
UNOFFICIAL REPLYING GUIDE (FTC)
You need a round of applause for that, sir.
What's up? I'm the proud co-owner of a little ClassiCube server called Minebuild.
Click here to go to the thread for it!
Sometimes, you just need a little more cave.
No, redstone does not have any lore.
So you cant assume the game can progress in a similar fashion to the real world even though the so called main character Steve is obviously human and wearing a t shirt and jeans?
You said yourself "a good critic needs to give good reasons and a decent amount of them (paraphrase)", so yeah I expect you to be a good critic.
So your mad at me because I called a few comments of your into doubt? Get over it. Reply back and prove me wrong/compromise/etc you know like a "good critic" instead of flaming me, because I most certainly did not flame you. I may have been a bit sarcastic but seriously get over it.
We agree really we do, so why are we at odds?
Your overthinking things: I am simply saying that the "bad critics" you described should recieve a warning, because they are short, and dont contribute to anything. And I never said anything about your comment getting a warning. Your a total flamer, but your semi logical at least. Maybe youve just completely misunderstood me or maybe I was too sarcastic.
"It doesnt fit" is largely an overrated and rediculous claim, used far too much by far too many people. I believe if you dont think its annoying, you have a problem and I dont care what you think. Im biased against ill logic.
Exactly: The day Minecraft decides to be part scifi would be no different than the day Minecraft suddenly decided it was a "Fantasy" game.
Why would you? What's to say an alien race doesn't look remarkably human and given an English-friendly name by Notch? It's still a far stretch from the point (though I will admit that the point I provided is a bit tenuous toward the discussion) that one technology is intrinsically developed simply because it flows chronologically according to the next invention above it. Simply because a society has learned about a washing machine doesn't mean it knows of a toaster (or bread for that matter) though I will agree that certain technologies are understood stepping-stones toward the advancement of society (fire, masonry, and farming for civilization) and others henceforth.
When you are looking at an age-ambiguous game like Minecraft, it becomes difficult to determine what technologies would have developed if indeed they had developed at any point in the timeline.
/sigh
I was not mad because you threw a few comments into doubt. Do so! I encourage it. I was angry because it seemed you only thought I was making sense because I agreed with you which is highly egotistical. Sarcasm is its own beast and I respect it; but an unfailing ego where "you're right and everyone should agree" needs to go away.
I agree on the premise that it can be a problem if abused (it can be done so easily), there are already circuits in play where members get punished for spam. Holding another rule over our heads is redundant (if you reduce the rules to basic functionality, they all link to respecting fellow members) and more draconic laws generally starve the population instead of improving it.
I try not to overthink things, but I do like to predict outcomes. If your complaint comes to pass, then I simply predict others will come crying for more rules to pass to protect their future articles from the harsh truth. I've been on these forums for a while (check post count) and have seen hundreds of threads cry "if you don't liek, don't say nething and jus go away." to "Make it so saying already suggested is a warnable offense" which is a retaliatory act when someone provides a link to a far superior previous suggestion.
I don't find it annoying simply because I don't find it annoying. I probably wouldn't find it annoying if I saw it on a regular basis. It simply does not stimulate my emotive responses of frustration; though I do find the batshit crazy arguments and counterarguments thoroughly entertaining. 2 and 3 line posts do **** me off, "Doesn't fit" is perfect size for that; but perhaps you should instead of narrowing the scope, expand it so 2 or 3 word responses are against the rules (they are).
Given a list of complaints on a suggestion, which are you more likely to get pissed off at seeing?
I have an actual order to these things.
Like, that's so far down my radar, I don't even think I can pick it up. Because of that... "No, I am not bothered by it... ALSO, no I don't do it either." On that poll, I choose "none of the above".
OFFICIAL POSTING/REPLYING GUIDELINES
UNOFFICIAL POSTING GUIDE (PRT)
UNOFFICIAL REPLYING GUIDE (FTC)
People are entitled to their opinions. They are allowed to disagree with you. Also they even provide you with their reason. "It doesn't fit into their view of Minecraft's setting"
It is my sincere hope that minecraft gets integrated mod support, because there are a LOT of cool ideas out there which I believe don't fit in to minecraft's style. A good example is buildcraft, which I've played with and is a phenomenal mod, but which I'd never want to see implemented in to the vanilla game.