A lot has changed over the years. We, the staff, have been discussing changes for the forum for a while now. We have many changes and a list of things we would love changed on the forum but require a bit more work than just a flip of a switch or a line changed in the backend code. For now, we'd like to start off with something that will get the ball moving to prepare for future changes.
It's no secret that we are extremely strict, and going forward we'd like to ease up and foster a better relationship between moderation and members. So for starters, I'll list a few things that are in discussion.
Reviewing our stance on Profanity.
Bumping as a whole and especially in the Server Section specifically.
Removing Section Rules and just expanding the General Rules
We'd love to hear your feedback and will be taking everyone's opinions and suggestions into consideration. We'd love to discuss everyone's thoughts on what needs adjusting, what people think should be removed, or even if there is something members would like added to the rules going forward.
I'd like to add information and add points which you all have been making. I may not have everyone's exact wording but a lot of suggestions were similar. Those have been combined and are as followed as below:
Regarding Servers
Only allow server owners to share their server once every X amount of days.
Require server owners to use offsite applications or private messages instead of forum thread replies to put “popular” threads on the same level as “new/unpopular” threads who do not bump/have responses to keep the thread active on the front page.
Regarding Bumping
Review bumping in the server section. Possibly loosen up what is or isn’t considered a “significant” update.
Allow forum server owners to bump their thread once every X amount of day/s.
Regarding Profanity
Ease up, but not outright remove.
Clarify openly about what is and isn’t allowed.
Allow self censoring.
Notes: Added points made in this thread by members.
Changing the "Bumping policy" and making it more specific would appeal to more players. Like myself I think it is unnecessary to say "bump" but if you were saying "Positions are available" that would acceptable. I think there should be a limit on how many bumps like three for example. As for the policy on Profanity, I would keep it as you have it or even make it stricter. I do not think many people realized the amount of younger teens and children who play this game. I think it is important to have a safe environment for those younger people. Growing up playing Minecraft in 2012 and 2013 many rules were not set in place and resulted in many arguments and unnecessary raging. Many of those incidents could have been avoided by warning or muting the player. Many people like to hide behind their screens and can result in some serious consequences.
You can have a very good conversation without swearing, cursing or profanities (unless you're a pirate), in fact it tend to make the conversation better. So I would say at least keep the policy level regarding profanity currently set. If people have to yell at each other, make a section for it.
I agree with EnderBornPvP_ on the Bumping policy, but not limited to the Server Section. I posted an issue in the Forum Discussion regarding an error I encountered, now the post has disappeared in a void without anyone noticing, I would have liked to Bump it up for attention.
Regarding Section rules, I guess these may sometimes be hard to maintain, so I concur with a revision.
I agree with the Bumping policy, there should be something that we can do to get our old threads up there as reposting a thread is not allowed. Considering about half the threads I've made have long been forgotten (just look at my join date, mind you), I feel like we should be allowed to bump those threads but some more limitations should exist, like it must have been an inactive thread for a month or something for you to bump it and revive it.
About the profanity policy, I think it should stay put, I feel it's already good as it is. Personally, I don't want to go too strict on it like ROBLOX does (like seriously, on there, good luck trying to say anything).
So I just want to add one thing, on some of the pages such as Minecraft Forum List, I'm having a hard time reading some of the headlines (silver-grey on white), is it possible to add text-colors with bigger contrast?
So I just want to add one thing, on some of the pages such as Minecraft Forum List, I'm having a hard time reading some of the headlines (silver-grey on white), is it possible to add text-colors with bigger contrast?
Just to clarify what you are asking, are you referring to the header that contains "Forum", "Latest Post", "Threads", and "Posts", or "Recent Updates and Snapshots" along with the latest thread responded to, to the right?
If its neither of these you are referring to could you provide a screenshot, if possible, so I can be sure to understand what you are asking?
It is the, what I would call a, subheader (see arrow), but in general silver on white is not easy for my eyes to read, it is not a problem the other way around (white on silver).
I think one thing that may need to be discussed is possibly relaxing the bumping rule a bit for server threads -- maybe allow a server thread to be bumped after a bit of time (like 7-15 days?) after the thread has become inactive. Even if the bump post might not fit the strict guidelines as to what is allowed, it may ultimately cut down on the number of server owners who resort to alternative methods of making their server more visible, such as dupe thread posting or directing their players to regularly post fake reviews. The dupe server thread posting is probably the biggest problem clogging up the server section at the moment, as far as I can tell.
Yes! Please allow bumping... once per day would be awesome. Profanity now days is okay. Thanks!
I've never been quite sure why people want this. Like... you do realize that if YOU can do it that everyone else can do it too right? So you get your once-a-day bump in and then... what happens? Your thread gets IMMEDIATELY buried by the thousand or so other people who are also getting theirs in. So what's gained besides wasting everyone's time? I don't understand.
That said, I agree that our bumping policy should be revised. In practice if not in writing. We do supposedly allow bumping for "significant changes or updates", but what we as staff see as "significant" and what the general public sees as "significant" are clearly two separate things. We need to really expand our list of allowed update types that won't earn a warning. Admittedly I don't deal with the servers section very much, so this is a bit of an outsider's perspective. Take it with a grain of salt.
As for the profanity rule, I'm very much against relaxing that. I know I'm outspoken in this regard, but civil discourse is one of the things we have going for us as a site. I like that people can come here and not feel in danger of being insulted or cussed out. I like the idea that parents can feel OK letting their children browse, post, and contribute to this community without having to fret over the content they'll encounter. Too many people treat decorum like some kind of shackle when in reality a measured amount of gentile behavior is what sets us free to discuss topics in an open forum such as this one. When we eliminate the rude and the crass, we are left with ideas and discussion. And that's what we want.
As for the profanity rule, I'm very much against relaxing that. I know I'm outspoken in this regard, but civil discourse is one of the things we have going for us as a site. I like that people can come here and not feel in danger of being insulted or cussed out. I like the idea that parents can feel OK letting their children browse, post, and contribute to this community without having to fret over the content they'll encounter. Too many people treat decorum like some kind of shackle when in reality a measured amount of gentile behavior is what sets us free to discuss topics in an open forum such as this one. When we eliminate the rude and the crass, we are left with ideas and discussion. And that's what we want.
I do think the censor evasion rule should be relaxed to not be an automatic suspension, however I do totally agree that the profanity rule should remain as it is. Maybe an alternative to eliminating the rule would be to switch it to not be an automatic 1-pointer at the first offense, or give the forum staff more leeway as to whether to treat it as a zero-point or one-point warning based on the context.
(edit)
Also, as far as the sectional rules, I think they can be pared back, but some really would need to be kept to ensure those particular sections remain usable and manageable. Maybe the sectional rules can be thinned out and combined into a single "section rules" page or combined onto the bottom of the main rules page.
I've never been quite sure why people want this. Like... you do realize that if YOU can do it that everyone else can do it too right? So you get your once-a-day bump in and then... what happens? Your thread gets IMMEDIATELY buried by the thousand or so other people who are also getting theirs in. So what's gained besides wasting everyone's time? I don't understand.
That said, I agree that our bumping policy should be revised. In practice if not in writing. We do supposedly allow bumping for "significant changes or updates", but what we as staff see as "significant" and what the general public sees as "significant" are clearly two separate things. We need to really expand our list of allowed update types that won't earn a warning. Admittedly I don't deal with the servers section very much, so this is a bit of an outsider's perspective. Take it with a grain of salt.
As for the profanity rule, I'm very much against relaxing that. I know I'm outspoken in this regard, but civil discourse is one of the things we have going for us as a site. I like that people can come here and not feel in danger of being insulted or cussed out. I like the idea that parents can feel OK letting their children browse, post, and contribute to this community without having to fret over the content they'll encounter. Too many people treat decorum like some kind of shackle when in reality a measured amount of gentile behavior is what sets us free to discuss topics in an open forum such as this one. When we eliminate the rude and the crass, we are left with ideas and discussion. And that's what we want.
Regarding bumping, it really depends on the volume of posts in a section. You're right that if there are thousands of threads all bumping once per day, but in locations with less traffic it can be more useful. The first page has 20 slots, if there are 1k threads that bump each day then each thread spends under 30 minutes on the front page on average. But if the traffic is lower, like 200 threads, then each thread gets 2 hours and 24 minutes on the front on average. This ignores some major things of course, like non-bumping posts in threads and that most traffic is from the US so most of the bumping traffic will probably be between 8 AM ET and 8 PM PT, so about 15 hours instead of 24.
I agree with your stance on profanity, and I cuss like a sailor in my normal life. Although our traffic has slowed over the years, it's nice to be part of a community that won't just start hurling expletives at you when they disagree. Sunperp makes some good points about relaxing some portions of the rules a bit.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
I may be a little biased on revoking the current profanity rules, given my stance when they were changed back in the day, and having been around since long-before they were invoked. Obviously in favour of having profanity be allowed once again.
Some people seem to have this idea that profanity as a whole is an aggression thing, or damaging to discussion. I swear all the time. I swear almost every sentence, outside of this forum. That's just how some people speak, especially in certain regions or classes. The idea that it's uncouth as a whole almost comes across as a little insulting.
It's strenuous to have to constantly, consciously avoid using certain words that I'd typically insert into casual conversation. Though I don't expect the profanity stance to ever be entirely rolled-back, context is very, very important. If someone is clearly insulting someone else; sure, ping them for it—doesn't mean all swearing needs to be eliminated or seen as peace-ruining evil.
I will, however, take a much firmer stance on the idea that acronym profanity be allowed. Even post-moderation role, I've been pinged by other mods before for what'd usually be innocuous acronyms—something even harder to consciously avoid than entire swear words. What The-'s and Luh-Maos are such an ingrained feature of internet vernacular at this point that I just find it a little silly.
we have already relaxed when it comes to lmao and other forms that use the donkey word, though things like smartass may still come under insults/flaming as pretty much the usage of that word is to call someone it in a not so nice way, all depends on usage there now
I had an inkling something like that may have been the case by now. Letting a few more words slip by as common acronyms would definitely be welcomed though.
Profanity? NO NO. I love using it, but I'm a grown up. There's kids here. Now, I think we could have a system with a self-censored asterisk instead of any intended profanity. Like: "oh *, I won't do that!".
BUMping? NO NO. It makes no sense, cause then everybody is doing it, then it's like Alvoria said. Your post ends up buried anyway, because everybody is bumping. Wanna bump your post? Find something meaningful to add to it. Otherwise NO.
Just leave the rules the way they are. Not all sections are created equal.
Yeah I basically quit this site for a year the last time I was given an infraction for censoring my own profanity. The site experience would definitely be nicer if it wasn't so strict.
How about changing what is considered a significant post in the server section. You can’t discuss changes to your servers like the addition of new plugins or different types of gameplay. You can’t even make a post with pictures or videos to show off new features that also have 250 words.
The "unnecessary bumping" rules have always been moderated unfairly and unequally.
Yall let "Greylist" servers dominate the entire server threads for years -- despite that practice being against yalls rules of "requiring users to post for ranks or server access" -- greylist threads are cancer and you guys do/did nothing to stop them, and only encourage them.
My threads were nuked because of "bumping" While i only made announcements for my server of content that i myself made from the ground up - including my own 3d models, my OWN programmed plugins, etc - and you nuked my entire thread full of content i posted over many months, falsely claiming that I was bumping for "common plugin updates"
Punishing actual content while rewarding greylist spammers is what lead me, and probably many others, to leave this forum. This my first time back in half a year or more and i hope that the fact that you have identified the issue with bump strictness helps improve things...
Greetings all!
A lot has changed over the years. We, the staff, have been discussing changes for the forum for a while now. We have many changes and a list of things we would love changed on the forum but require a bit more work than just a flip of a switch or a line changed in the backend code. For now, we'd like to start off with something that will get the ball moving to prepare for future changes.
It's no secret that we are extremely strict, and going forward we'd like to ease up and foster a better relationship between moderation and members. So for starters, I'll list a few things that are in discussion.
We'd love to hear your feedback and will be taking everyone's opinions and suggestions into consideration. We'd love to discuss everyone's thoughts on what needs adjusting, what people think should be removed, or even if there is something members would like added to the rules going forward.
I'd like to add information and add points which you all have been making. I may not have everyone's exact wording but a lot of suggestions were similar. Those have been combined and are as followed as below:
Regarding Servers
Regarding Bumping
Regarding Profanity
That would be nice, many a year ago I got a strike for using asterisks instead of swearing.
"bypassing swear filter" was the claim.
Out of spite, the popup that asked me to click to acknowledge my strike, i never clicked, and after a long while, it just never popped up again.
Acepto los terminos
I condiciones
Acepto los terminos
Changing the "Bumping policy" and making it more specific would appeal to more players. Like myself I think it is unnecessary to say "bump" but if you were saying "Positions are available" that would acceptable. I think there should be a limit on how many bumps like three for example. As for the policy on Profanity, I would keep it as you have it or even make it stricter. I do not think many people realized the amount of younger teens and children who play this game. I think it is important to have a safe environment for those younger people. Growing up playing Minecraft in 2012 and 2013 many rules were not set in place and resulted in many arguments and unnecessary raging. Many of those incidents could have been avoided by warning or muting the player. Many people like to hide behind their screens and can result in some serious consequences.
You can have a very good conversation without swearing, cursing or profanities (unless you're a pirate), in fact it tend to make the conversation better. So I would say at least keep the policy level regarding profanity currently set. If people have to yell at each other, make a section for it.
I agree with EnderBornPvP_ on the Bumping policy, but not limited to the Server Section. I posted an issue in the Forum Discussion regarding an error I encountered, now the post has disappeared in a void without anyone noticing, I would have liked to Bump it up for attention.
Regarding Section rules, I guess these may sometimes be hard to maintain, so I concur with a revision.
I agree with the Bumping policy, there should be something that we can do to get our old threads up there as reposting a thread is not allowed. Considering about half the threads I've made have long been forgotten (just look at my join date, mind you), I feel like we should be allowed to bump those threads but some more limitations should exist, like it must have been an inactive thread for a month or something for you to bump it and revive it.
About the profanity policy, I think it should stay put, I feel it's already good as it is. Personally, I don't want to go too strict on it like ROBLOX does (like seriously, on there, good luck trying to say anything).
So I just want to add one thing, on some of the pages such as Minecraft Forum List, I'm having a hard time reading some of the headlines (silver-grey on white), is it possible to add text-colors with bigger contrast?
Just to clarify what you are asking, are you referring to the header that contains "Forum", "Latest Post", "Threads", and "Posts", or "Recent Updates and Snapshots" along with the latest thread responded to, to the right?
If its neither of these you are referring to could you provide a screenshot, if possible, so I can be sure to understand what you are asking?
It is the, what I would call a, subheader (see arrow), but in general silver on white is not easy for my eyes to read, it is not a problem the other way around (white on silver).
Thanks!
I think one thing that may need to be discussed is possibly relaxing the bumping rule a bit for server threads -- maybe allow a server thread to be bumped after a bit of time (like 7-15 days?) after the thread has become inactive. Even if the bump post might not fit the strict guidelines as to what is allowed, it may ultimately cut down on the number of server owners who resort to alternative methods of making their server more visible, such as dupe thread posting or directing their players to regularly post fake reviews. The dupe server thread posting is probably the biggest problem clogging up the server section at the moment, as far as I can tell.
- sunperp
Yes! Please allow bumping... once per day would be awesome. Profanity now days is okay. Thanks!
I've never been quite sure why people want this. Like... you do realize that if YOU can do it that everyone else can do it too right? So you get your once-a-day bump in and then... what happens? Your thread gets IMMEDIATELY buried by the thousand or so other people who are also getting theirs in. So what's gained besides wasting everyone's time? I don't understand.
That said, I agree that our bumping policy should be revised. In practice if not in writing. We do supposedly allow bumping for "significant changes or updates", but what we as staff see as "significant" and what the general public sees as "significant" are clearly two separate things. We need to really expand our list of allowed update types that won't earn a warning. Admittedly I don't deal with the servers section very much, so this is a bit of an outsider's perspective. Take it with a grain of salt.
As for the profanity rule, I'm very much against relaxing that. I know I'm outspoken in this regard, but civil discourse is one of the things we have going for us as a site. I like that people can come here and not feel in danger of being insulted or cussed out. I like the idea that parents can feel OK letting their children browse, post, and contribute to this community without having to fret over the content they'll encounter. Too many people treat decorum like some kind of shackle when in reality a measured amount of gentile behavior is what sets us free to discuss topics in an open forum such as this one. When we eliminate the rude and the crass, we are left with ideas and discussion. And that's what we want.
I do think the censor evasion rule should be relaxed to not be an automatic suspension, however I do totally agree that the profanity rule should remain as it is. Maybe an alternative to eliminating the rule would be to switch it to not be an automatic 1-pointer at the first offense, or give the forum staff more leeway as to whether to treat it as a zero-point or one-point warning based on the context.
(edit)
Also, as far as the sectional rules, I think they can be pared back, but some really would need to be kept to ensure those particular sections remain usable and manageable. Maybe the sectional rules can be thinned out and combined into a single "section rules" page or combined onto the bottom of the main rules page.
- sunperp
Regarding bumping, it really depends on the volume of posts in a section. You're right that if there are thousands of threads all bumping once per day, but in locations with less traffic it can be more useful. The first page has 20 slots, if there are 1k threads that bump each day then each thread spends under 30 minutes on the front page on average. But if the traffic is lower, like 200 threads, then each thread gets 2 hours and 24 minutes on the front on average. This ignores some major things of course, like non-bumping posts in threads and that most traffic is from the US so most of the bumping traffic will probably be between 8 AM ET and 8 PM PT, so about 15 hours instead of 24.
I agree with your stance on profanity, and I cuss like a sailor in my normal life. Although our traffic has slowed over the years, it's nice to be part of a community that won't just start hurling expletives at you when they disagree. Sunperp makes some good points about relaxing some portions of the rules a bit.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
I may be a little biased on revoking the current profanity rules, given my stance when they were changed back in the day, and having been around since long-before they were invoked. Obviously in favour of having profanity be allowed once again.
Some people seem to have this idea that profanity as a whole is an aggression thing, or damaging to discussion. I swear all the time. I swear almost every sentence, outside of this forum. That's just how some people speak, especially in certain regions or classes. The idea that it's uncouth as a whole almost comes across as a little insulting.
It's strenuous to have to constantly, consciously avoid using certain words that I'd typically insert into casual conversation. Though I don't expect the profanity stance to ever be entirely rolled-back, context is very, very important. If someone is clearly insulting someone else; sure, ping them for it—doesn't mean all swearing needs to be eliminated or seen as peace-ruining evil.
I will, however, take a much firmer stance on the idea that acronym profanity be allowed. Even post-moderation role, I've been pinged by other mods before for what'd usually be innocuous acronyms—something even harder to consciously avoid than entire swear words. What The-'s and Luh-Maos are such an ingrained feature of internet vernacular at this point that I just find it a little silly.
I had an inkling something like that may have been the case by now. Letting a few more words slip by as common acronyms would definitely be welcomed though.
Profanity? NO NO. I love using it, but I'm a grown up. There's kids here. Now, I think we could have a system with a self-censored asterisk instead of any intended profanity. Like: "oh *, I won't do that!".
BUMping? NO NO. It makes no sense, cause then everybody is doing it, then it's like Alvoria said. Your post ends up buried anyway, because everybody is bumping. Wanna bump your post? Find something meaningful to add to it. Otherwise NO.
Just leave the rules the way they are. Not all sections are created equal.
Yeah I basically quit this site for a year the last time I was given an infraction for censoring my own profanity. The site experience would definitely be nicer if it wasn't so strict.
This site's rules are too strict.
How about changing what is considered a significant post in the server section. You can’t discuss changes to your servers like the addition of new plugins or different types of gameplay. You can’t even make a post with pictures or videos to show off new features that also have 250 words.
The "unnecessary bumping" rules have always been moderated unfairly and unequally.
Yall let "Greylist" servers dominate the entire server threads for years -- despite that practice being against yalls rules of "requiring users to post for ranks or server access" -- greylist threads are cancer and you guys do/did nothing to stop them, and only encourage them.
My threads were nuked because of "bumping" While i only made announcements for my server of content that i myself made from the ground up - including my own 3d models, my OWN programmed plugins, etc - and you nuked my entire thread full of content i posted over many months, falsely claiming that I was bumping for "common plugin updates"
Punishing actual content while rewarding greylist spammers is what lead me, and probably many others, to leave this forum. This my first time back in half a year or more and i hope that the fact that you have identified the issue with bump strictness helps improve things...