First of all, the MC Forums not closing down is great news.
However, the fact that the ownership of the MC Forums is changing hands yet again poses a few new questions.
The last time that the MC Forums were sold to a new company, Fandom, this went with the loss of around a third of all forum posts.
Of course this had to do with the GDPR, which is a law meant to protect the privacy of EU residents, but many people didn't get a notification, either because they were (temporarily) inactive on the forums or used an ad blocker that blocked the notification and didn't frequently check the e-mail address they used to sign up for these forums years ago.
1. I am assuming that, since the GDPR still applies, we will be asked for consent to transfer our data again.
And since until only a few days ago the understanding was that this forum would be closed in a few days, many users may already have left the forums never planning to return and it will take weeks or months for them to even realize that there was a change of plans.
This is why it would be even harder to reliably contact all active users about their needed consent.
In light of this, are there any plans to make the whole process of notifying users, opting in and hiding and unhiding the messages/data of users who don't get here before a certain deadline better than last time? For instance:
a) Providing a message at the top about the data in the same way that over the last few weeks, there was this notification about the forum being archived. This message was not blocked by my ad-blocker.
After the deadline, hiding all posts on a per-user basis and keeping track of which messages were hidden per user, keeping the data intact (possibly encrypted) but inaccessible by anyone. (Inaccessible, because otherwise the GDPR would probably still be violated.)
c) Allowing users to log in and opt-in after the details and unhiding their hidden posts with the press of a button after/as they consent.
2. There used to be talk of our lost data from the previous migration to Fandom possibly being restored. I wonder what the status on that is, because I haven't heard anything for quite a while. Is this still being considered? Has this plan been shut down completely? Would it even be possible?
With the transfer to Magic Find, would the data needed to restore old threads and replies even be available anymore?
I would like for a Moderator to shed some light on this, but if you know of other threads or sources where some of these questions were or could be answered, please feel free to direct me there.
Also, if you have a good insight in the GDPR and know something I don't seem to know, for instance, whether or not I can file a request to obtain all of my "private data" in a readable format, I'm looking forward to your reply.
"I let people see how horrendous my code is specifically so it can become less bad." ~ Spirit 2018-10-18
"Never, ever, EVER give a maid a bazooka..." ~ CaerMaster 2018-02-10
"When in doubt read Zsashas' Signature " ~ Vadis365 2016-09-09
"Your post count reflects your uncertainty more than it does your knowledge." ~ Me
I cannot explain the current transfer, as the details are still being worked out, however I can explain the previous one better. This transfer is a bit different to a degree, so I'll wait for clarification and internal discussion on that one.
Since the Fandom sale was more rushed, the GDPR actions that were taken from a development standpoint was under a time crunch, and so the development team had to rush to get a system in place that would let users consent to the transfer. Naturally, since it was rushed, they could not get it perfect, and so the issues like adblockers causing issues and notifications going to the Twitch email (which made sense, but the scenario where it didn't match the MCF email caused issues) weren't noticed till it was too late.
The deletes also aren't marked as anything special. It falls under the "user requested their account to be deleted" process, which means each post was deleted with you as the user doing it. When we did the migration to the Curse form software many years ago, posts that were deleted from the old system to (at the time) the new system, also had you as the user being the "deleter".
This means from a front-end perspective, it is not possible for us to tell that a post was deleted because of GDPR, it being deleted because you asked for it via Curse Support, or it being from a legacy system. I would expect the database to have a similar view.
Since the forum's ecosystem bleeds money, it would be throwing more money into a site which wasn't holding up well to them to fix something, so from a business perspective, it's not worth the investment. I can probably believe as well it'd not be simple from a technical perspective (having done data migrations from legacy systems.... it's never fun and takes a long time to get working).
This means from a front-end perspective, it is not possible for us to tell that a post was deleted because of GDPR, it being deleted because you asked for it via Curse Support, or it being from a legacy system. I would expect the database to have a similar view.
Since the forum's ecosystem bleeds money, it would be throwing more money into a site which wasn't holding up well to them to fix something, so from a business perspective, it's not worth the investment. I can probably believe as well it'd not be simple from a technical perspective (having done data migrations from legacy systems.... it's never fun and takes a long time to get working).
Hmm, I see.
So the deletion date was not saved either then? Or the post's creation date?
"I let people see how horrendous my code is specifically so it can become less bad." ~ Spirit 2018-10-18
"Never, ever, EVER give a maid a bazooka..." ~ CaerMaster 2018-02-10
"When in doubt read Zsashas' Signature " ~ Vadis365 2016-09-09
"Your post count reflects your uncertainty more than it does your knowledge." ~ Me
So the deletion date was not saved either then? Or the post's creation date?
We know when a post was created on the frontend, however the deletion date is set to the date that the post was also made. From a "can we do it" standpoint, "yes", but I've not looked at legacy posts either which could have been moderator deleted, but would have your name on it. I also don't have database access, so I have no idea what behind the scenes it has.
I certainly would have preferred a way to revert it, make no mistake, it's just that the only solution at the time we saw was that we have to manually restore each post, which.... is a very demanding task, and so we didn't want to do it.
I'll dig more into it, since your comment did give me an idea, but it completely depends on if legacy posts (posts created before the switch to Cobalt) would work correctly with it.
EDIT: Also have to take the Cloudflare throttle into account.... you can lock yourself out for a brief time if you go too fast.
EDIT 2: I did find indications from 2011 threads, so *maybe* possible. Naturally, the forum has changed software a few times, so.... it'd be a huge experiment.
EDIT 3: The issue is that yes, posts made prior to 2015 do not store the information which would let us recover them without running a risk that the post was deleted by a moderator. I still have not determined if the same logic will work with posts made after that.
At the very least official threads for important Minecraft mods should be restored if possible. There is no way that mod authors are not providing 'consent' for their support threads. Classic threads for many mods like BuildCraft, IndustrialCraft, Botania, etc.. the list goes on and on.
This would be a small subset of deleted posts but for forum integrity and historical record they are the most important. Users (including myself) can help you to pinpoint such threads if needed.
We know when a post was created on the frontend, however the deletion date is set to the date that the post was also made. From a "can we do it" standpoint, "yes", but I've not looked at legacy posts either which could have been moderator deleted, but would have your name on it. I also don't have database access, so I have no idea what behind the scenes it has.
I certainly would have preferred a way to revert it, make no mistake, it's just that the only solution at the time we saw was that we have to manually restore each post, which.... is a very demanding task, and so we didn't want to do it.
I'll dig more into it, since your comment did give me an idea, but it completely depends on if legacy posts (posts created before the switch to Cobalt) would work correctly with it.
EDIT: Also have to take the Cloudflare throttle into account.... you can lock yourself out for a brief time if you go too fast.
EDIT 2: I did find indications from 2011 threads, so *maybe* possible. Naturally, the forum has changed software a few times, so.... it'd be a huge experiment.
EDIT 3: The issue is that yes, posts made prior to 2015 do not store the information which would let us recover them without running a risk that the post was deleted by a moderator. I still have not determined if the same logic will work with posts made after that.
What if you guys got 100 volunteers tasked with undeleting posts that don't appear to be violating ToS, or spam.
You could probably finish this project in a year or so
What if you guys got 100 volunteers tasked with undeleting posts that don't appear to be violating ToS, or spam.
You could probably finish this project in a year or so
How would you make sure that:
1) These volunteers can see the content of all the posts that they are supposed to check and
2) make sure that they can not see any personal information possibly in these hidden posts or make sure that they can be trusted with keeping any personal information they may come across confidential.
In other words, how do you get 100 trustworthy volunteers?
"I let people see how horrendous my code is specifically so it can become less bad." ~ Spirit 2018-10-18
"Never, ever, EVER give a maid a bazooka..." ~ CaerMaster 2018-02-10
"When in doubt read Zsashas' Signature " ~ Vadis365 2016-09-09
"Your post count reflects your uncertainty more than it does your knowledge." ~ Me
How would you make sure that:
1) These volunteers can see the content of all the posts that they are supposed to check and
2) make sure that they can not see any personal information possibly in these hidden posts or make sure that they can be trusted with keeping any personal information they may come across confidential.
In other words, how do you get 100 trustworthy volunteers?
1... They would have to be made moderators and trained up... as you say how can we find enough trustworthy people to assist
2... All of the accounts removed were fully purged on the profile side and assigned a random name so there is no personal information on there accounts even if they do come back and agree to GDPR.
This still doesn't fix the whole point we have been saying that there is NO indicator staff wise whether a post was deleted by the move, or was deleted for another reason... lets look at an old member who vanished who was assisting alot in support, he had 25k posts, if this member were to return and accept the transfer someone would need to look at ALL of the posts one by one and decide if the post was removed due to GDPR or another reason..... not a job i would want to do even if i was being paid to do it (i am not paid)
do moderators only remove posts with profanity, spam and malicious links? Perhaps filter out certain posts with specific keywords?
do moderators only remove posts with profanity, spam and malicious links? Perhaps filter out certain posts with specific keywords?
That is not really how it works. Posts are removed if they break our rules, so there is no way a "filter" could handle every way rules can be broken. We don't just remove profanity, spam, and evil links.
That is not really how it works. Posts are removed if they break our rules, so there is no way a "filter" could handle every way rules can be broken. We don't just remove profanity, spam, and evil links.
That's a good point. you guys probably remove off topic posts as well which would be really hard to identify. I suppose my idea was to just restore as many posts as you can in 1 swoop without causing major disruption.
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Curse PremiumFirst of all, the MC Forums not closing down is great news.
However, the fact that the ownership of the MC Forums is changing hands yet again poses a few new questions.
The last time that the MC Forums were sold to a new company, Fandom, this went with the loss of around a third of all forum posts.
Of course this had to do with the GDPR, which is a law meant to protect the privacy of EU residents, but many people didn't get a notification, either because they were (temporarily) inactive on the forums or used an ad blocker that blocked the notification and didn't frequently check the e-mail address they used to sign up for these forums years ago.
And since until only a few days ago the understanding was that this forum would be closed in a few days, many users may already have left the forums never planning to return and it will take weeks or months for them to even realize that there was a change of plans.
This is why it would be even harder to reliably contact all active users about their needed consent.
For instance:
With the transfer to Magic Find, would the data needed to restore old threads and replies even be available anymore?
I would like for a Moderator to shed some light on this, but if you know of other threads or sources where some of these questions were or could be answered, please feel free to direct me there.
Also, if you have a good insight in the GDPR and know something I don't seem to know, for instance, whether or not I can file a request to obtain all of my "private data" in a readable format, I'm looking forward to your reply.
If you're new to troubleshooting Minecraft Crashes, or just interested, please read my guide on reading crash reports and reporting crashes.
"I let people see how horrendous my code is specifically so it can become less bad." ~ Spirit 2018-10-18
" ~ Vadis365 2016-09-09
"Never, ever, EVER give a maid a bazooka..." ~ CaerMaster 2018-02-10
"When in doubt read Zsashas' Signature
"Your post count reflects your uncertainty more than it does your knowledge." ~ Me
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Forum AdminI cannot explain the current transfer, as the details are still being worked out, however I can explain the previous one better. This transfer is a bit different to a degree, so I'll wait for clarification and internal discussion on that one.
Since the Fandom sale was more rushed, the GDPR actions that were taken from a development standpoint was under a time crunch, and so the development team had to rush to get a system in place that would let users consent to the transfer. Naturally, since it was rushed, they could not get it perfect, and so the issues like adblockers causing issues and notifications going to the Twitch email (which made sense, but the scenario where it didn't match the MCF email caused issues) weren't noticed till it was too late.
The deletes also aren't marked as anything special. It falls under the "user requested their account to be deleted" process, which means each post was deleted with you as the user doing it. When we did the migration to the Curse form software many years ago, posts that were deleted from the old system to (at the time) the new system, also had you as the user being the "deleter".
This means from a front-end perspective, it is not possible for us to tell that a post was deleted because of GDPR, it being deleted because you asked for it via Curse Support, or it being from a legacy system. I would expect the database to have a similar view.
Since the forum's ecosystem bleeds money, it would be throwing more money into a site which wasn't holding up well to them to fix something, so from a business perspective, it's not worth the investment. I can probably believe as well it'd not be simple from a technical perspective (having done data migrations from legacy systems.... it's never fun and takes a long time to get working).
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Curse PremiumHmm, I see.
So the deletion date was not saved either then? Or the post's creation date?
If you're new to troubleshooting Minecraft Crashes, or just interested, please read my guide on reading crash reports and reporting crashes.
"I let people see how horrendous my code is specifically so it can become less bad." ~ Spirit 2018-10-18
" ~ Vadis365 2016-09-09
"Never, ever, EVER give a maid a bazooka..." ~ CaerMaster 2018-02-10
"When in doubt read Zsashas' Signature
"Your post count reflects your uncertainty more than it does your knowledge." ~ Me
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Forum AdminWe know when a post was created on the frontend, however the deletion date is set to the date that the post was also made. From a "can we do it" standpoint, "yes", but I've not looked at legacy posts either which could have been moderator deleted, but would have your name on it. I also don't have database access, so I have no idea what behind the scenes it has.
I certainly would have preferred a way to revert it, make no mistake, it's just that the only solution at the time we saw was that we have to manually restore each post, which.... is a very demanding task, and so we didn't want to do it.
I'll dig more into it, since your comment did give me an idea, but it completely depends on if legacy posts (posts created before the switch to Cobalt) would work correctly with it.
EDIT: Also have to take the Cloudflare throttle into account.... you can lock yourself out for a brief time if you go too fast.
EDIT 2: I did find indications from 2011 threads, so *maybe* possible. Naturally, the forum has changed software a few times, so.... it'd be a huge experiment.
EDIT 3: The issue is that yes, posts made prior to 2015 do not store the information which would let us recover them without running a risk that the post was deleted by a moderator. I still have not determined if the same logic will work with posts made after that.
So now that critic has left, who's the new sysadmin?
My Github ด้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้дด็็็็็้้้้้็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้
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Curse PremiumAt the very least official threads for important Minecraft mods should be restored if possible. There is no way that mod authors are not providing 'consent' for their support threads. Classic threads for many mods like BuildCraft, IndustrialCraft, Botania, etc.. the list goes on and on.
This would be a small subset of deleted posts but for forum integrity and historical record they are the most important. Users (including myself) can help you to pinpoint such threads if needed.
What if you guys got 100 volunteers tasked with undeleting posts that don't appear to be violating ToS, or spam.
You could probably finish this project in a year or so
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Curse PremiumHow would you make sure that:
1) These volunteers can see the content of all the posts that they are supposed to check and
2) make sure that they can not see any personal information possibly in these hidden posts or make sure that they can be trusted with keeping any personal information they may come across confidential.
In other words, how do you get 100 trustworthy volunteers?
If you're new to troubleshooting Minecraft Crashes, or just interested, please read my guide on reading crash reports and reporting crashes.
"I let people see how horrendous my code is specifically so it can become less bad." ~ Spirit 2018-10-18
" ~ Vadis365 2016-09-09
"Never, ever, EVER give a maid a bazooka..." ~ CaerMaster 2018-02-10
"When in doubt read Zsashas' Signature
"Your post count reflects your uncertainty more than it does your knowledge." ~ Me
craigslist
do moderators only remove posts with profanity, spam and malicious links? Perhaps filter out certain posts with specific keywords?
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Forum AdminThat is not really how it works. Posts are removed if they break our rules, so there is no way a "filter" could handle every way rules can be broken. We don't just remove profanity, spam, and evil links.
That's a good point. you guys probably remove off topic posts as well which would be really hard to identify. I suppose my idea was to just restore as many posts as you can in 1 swoop without causing major disruption.