Was hoping someone technical could help me out. I was trying out a new design look for an iron farm. It has 12 doors on each side (you can see 10 in the screen shot, 2 more are located in those villager holders you see in the screen shots too. The villagers do breed, so I think they recognize it as a village. The ceilings are 4 high. Anyone know why it won't spawn them?
I am on better together yes, and you are incorrect about a few things. Golems will spawn in water, I have an iron farm running right now that produces a little under a stack per hour, using the typical setup. I copied a farm design by gruva guy for it. I tried to follow the same general rules for how I understand a village to work, kind of like you laid out, for the design in the images. Basically as long as you have solid blocks overhead, and one side has more than the other, it gets registered as a village. Now I think it's registered since the villagers will breed, but no clue why golems don't spawn
Also. You're wrong about where they spawn, just like java, they spawn in a 16x16x6 cube at the village center.
Sorry didn't see you posted twice in a row. 1 stack an hour is probay slow for most. I play on my Xbox so I just leave it running all the time, it's not too bad for me. I'm gonna build 5 all within range of each other to run once I get this design to work, 5 stacks an hour will do me just fine i want this to be the central area of my base. So I need to get the aesthetics to look good, but this hang up with it not producing iron is putting everything on hold.
I've never sat and watched them spawn on the platforms to confirm if they are actually spawning on the water. I'll look for that and let you know.
I have a 2-tier water-based iron golem farm that works perfectly fine, and I have witnessed the golems spawning in the middle of the pool without problems. It works exactly as expected. Houses are exactly as described in the Wiki as well. The Iron Titan super-farms are borked, but snail farms work as they always did.
And note that I was not always of this opinion - for a while my farm would not work at all and I was completely flabbergasted. Then some nice folks over at the bug tracker helped me realize an important thing: water counts as a roof block. Not your problem Prowl, but man it sure messed up my farm. I'd remove the water and boom, golems. I was convinced that golems couldn't spawn in water, but in truth I just didn't read the Wiki closely enough. (Obviously my doors/houses were reversed from yours, Prowl; my houses "outside" faced towards the water pool, and the water was screwing up the calculation for what was a "house".)
For your farm, Prowl, I think that the lower platform is too low? It looks like you have 4 full blocks below the doors down to the spawn platform. The golems spawn on the blocks, not on the water (that is, the Y value is the value of the block under the water), so I think maybe yours is 1 block too low. I had to rebuild my 2-tier farm twice because I kept mis-counting the above/below-the-door values for the spawn platforms.
Below is how mine is set up, but actually I think maybe the lower platform can go a block lower, based on the above picture. So maybe yours is fine?
ASCII art! [ ] = any block, [-] = lower tier floor block, ^^ = upper half-slab, ~~ = water
[ ]
[ ]~~~~
D^^^^^^
D
[ ]
[ ]~~~~
[-][-][-][-]
You might want to make the spawn platforms 18x18 since it seems sometimes golems will spawn just slightly outside of the 16x16 area. In my original 1-tier farm I'd get them outside the pool sometimes, wandering the village. It was recommended to me that I do 18x18 and that fixed it.
Sorry if your farm is set up exactly this way; it's difficult to tell from screenshots because I'm bad at reading screenshots.
I also tried what was suggested, lowered the doors by 1 and lowered the ceiling to a 3 gap instead of 4. I made 1 floor water and no water on the other. Villagers eat food and breed no problem... No spawns after an hour. It really makes no sense at all to me... Then I have my 1 survival world iron farm, similar design (Not identical) which I cannot get to breed villagers no matter what I do, but produces golems in water just fine.
About 20. And an hour should be more than enough. My understanding is the game tries to spawn one every 5 or 6 minutes. And it can vary up or down a little, but to go more than 15 or 20 minutes shouldn't be possible. I think it's either a bug... or there is some really weird game mechanics at play that are so different than java that no one has figured it out yet.
The only other thing I can think of, is I have tested many other working iron farms on this test world, I wonder if I've hit some type of world cap. It's not a passive mob cap, since the villagers spawn regularly, but maybe some other cap is at play in my test world doing this... I'll have to start a fresh world and see what happens.
Oh and you know how I mentioned my survival world will spawn golems buy the villagers won't take food or breed.
I've had maybe 4 instances where my villagers have gotten turned into witches. I wonder if maybe they aren't being removed from the villager cap when that happens, so the village thinks it's maxed out on villagers. Just a thought.
I think if you've seen instances of no golems showing up for that long, then they appear, are not due to spawn rate, but more due to something in the game telling the village not to spawn the golems. But yes, there are 26 doors to the village. The breeding should be happening, I've built tons of breeders and other iron farms to know they should.
I think bedrock is so different you have to throw what you know about java out the window almost. I'm willing to bet when I get home tonight if I start a new world and make that exact design in it, it'll spawn golems no problem.
There may be a good way to test for a golem cap limit. I know with golem farms if you don't kill them and let them drop to the ground, they move out of the detection range of the spawning area, and more can keep spawning. Could always see in an empty world how many it'll spawn till it stops.
I was trying to research a cap for golems, while I didn't find an answer, I saw an old thread talking about golems being counted as "utility mobs" in java, as opposed to passive or hostile mobs. So it's possible they are still classified as "utility" and that group has been given a cap.
Where they spawn is so weird. I can afk there for a couple overnights and they only spawn on the platforms and go in the lava. Then out if nowhere while playing in the area, I can go over, and 8 golems will be down on the ground. Now if it's villager based, my farms wouldn't show me that cause I always put my villagers symmetrically on both sides, so the mid point would always be the middle of my farm.
I'll be interested to see your video. We need to get this figured out with some sort of consensus.
So, from what I can tell from your video. Seems like at the very minimum if land is available, they will favor land over water (be interested to see if it's all water if they spawn in it, and at the same rate. They still spawned within the 16x16 square of the village center, the center point if the doors. The villager placement seems to not have made any difference at all.
I'll run some tests of my own tonight/tomorrow. I want to see if starting a new world changes anything, I want to see if I compare 2 16x16 farms, 1 with land and 1 with water. I want to see if there is a spawn limit to the number of golems in a world. If water does in fact lower farm rates, to see if there is a better way to setup a farm, maybe using higher villager numbers and flushing the golems on a timer, kind of like a mob farm, or pulling them to a hole to drop into using a named mob like a skeleton or something.
Ok, so some very unscientific testing here. I made these 3 iron farms in a new world, within range of each other so I could have them all loaded at once. I did just fly around and manually kill them. All of them did breed villagers fine
Farm #1 I made as something that would be simple and almost represent something that looked more like a village. #2 is a basic design of my own that should meet all village requirements. #3 is a replica of gruva guys design which I've used a ton in the past.
#2, my design, in 45 minutes spawned 1 golem and that's it. On the lower level.
#3, didn't spawn anything for the first 20 minutes, then put out maybe 21 iron
#1 started producing golems immediately, then didn't make anything for the last 20 minutes, it made about 19 iron.
Results that surprised me was that little dinky 1 level build produced as much as the 2 level one. But it could be the short sample size that did it.
No clue why #2 Didn't work. I am kind of suspicious of light level having something to do with spawning, specifically sky access... If anyone wants to maybe run some tests on that.
My next step is I'm going to make 2 identical farms, and I'll water one, and just manually kill in the other one. It'll be a short test lol, but after an hour I'll make my conclusion. Then from there I can set 2 of the same farms up but 1 with 1 floor and 1 with 2 and afk for a while and see the rate difference. I'll do some more of these today and let you know.
It's a shame that bedrock doesn't allow for changing the game tick speed... this would be a lot easier.
So I can say 2 levels definitely, as expected, makes a difference. After an hour afking the 1 level farm did 32 iron, the 2 level did 55. So it's fairly close to a stack an hour, spawning in water. 2 levels is almost double the effeciency of 1 level.
Next I'm testing without water vs with water. Identical farms.
The reason 2 levels works better, assuming spawning mechanics work the same as java, which for this I haven't seen anything to show me otherwise, has to do with how the game checks for a spawn location.
The spawnable area for golems is a 16x16x6 cube based on the village center. I think there is a 1 in 7000 chance per game tic for a golem to spawn. In the 16x16x6 cube, there are 1536 spawnable locations. Each game tick, I believe it checks 6 of those locations at random. If there is a spawnable block there (solid block with atleast a 3 high ceiling), then it'll try to spawn a golem under that 1:7000 chance rule. So on a 1 level floor, you have 256 of the possible 1536 blocks spawnable, and a 2 level floor 512 of 1536 blocks spawnable. So your odds are effectively doubled.
This is all from memory, and there are some slightly deeper statistics that determine the spawn rate, but the above gives you a pretty detailed picture of how it works.
I also tested, again small sample size, I want to keep that disclosure, manually killing golems vs the water based systems. In the manual farm I put 40 villagers in it, that way I wouldn't get any reduction in spawns because I wasn't killing the golems fast enough. After an hour, in an identical set up minus the water, the one where I killed the golems netted me exactly 64 iron, vs the water one getting me 60, so i would call the rates the same. I really don't believe water makes a difference just based off what I've seen.
I never did get my original one to work. What I'll try, probably tomorrow. Is to section by section convert one of these working farms over, and see what breaks it. Is it villager location? Roofing the farm? Putting up walls? The fences? Atleast if I do it this way, I *should* be able to narrow down what block is doing it, then further test to figure out why.
My time is super limited, working full time, driving 2 kids to school every morning, doing online college classes l, and going to soccer games, so if you or anyone want to help me with some of these tests, that would be great!
Prowl - Iron golems require 3.5 blocks of height to spawn even if they are only 3 blocks tall. It looked to me like your #2 farm above had exactly 3 blocks from floor to ceiling.
When I was getting help for my previously non-working farm (the one where flowing water appeared to be counted as a "roof") the person helping me found some behavior that implied that light level might actually be at play. The thinking was that the water - in addition to messing up how my houses' inside vs. outside were being calculated - might be lowering the light level on the spawn platform.
Since I solved the problem with water messing up my houses we never really chased that idea down. I always have glowstones in the floor of my bottom tier and around the perimeter of my upper tier anyhow, so the spawn area is always lit up. It shouldn't matter, but I want to prevent other hostiles anyhow so I light it up. And my farm produces consistently, in line with your 50-ish/hr for two spawn platforms.
Good luck.
FlnDutch - in your last screenshot it looks like you might have water blocks (a source and at least one flowing) at the same level as the bottom of your doors in the corners. I know you don't place much faith in the Wiki, however according to it (as well as all of the problems and troubleshooting I did with my original farm) water blocks will count as "roof". So it's possible you have 4 doors that aren't counting as houses.
My original farm was a similar design, where the "outside" of the houses faced towards the pool. Once I dropped the pool down one block, it started producing normally. I have since flipped my houses around so that the upper spawn platform is just the roof for all of them, and there's open space for 5 blocks facing outwards. Solved all my problems.
I play on Xbox right now so commands are a pain, may hook my keyboard and mouse to it tomorrow though.
I definitely think it's fair to assume not all mechanics are the same, but I'd assume they used java as their starting point. Let us know what you get from a 2 level vs a 1 level.
Attached is the 2 level farm I'm using (the 1 level was just this with the 2nd level floor deleted, and the non water farm was just this without water. So going forward this farm is my 'control' so to speak.
Was hoping someone technical could help me out. I was trying out a new design look for an iron farm. It has 12 doors on each side (you can see 10 in the screen shot, 2 more are located in those villager holders you see in the screen shots too. The villagers do breed, so I think they recognize it as a village. The ceilings are 4 high. Anyone know why it won't spawn them?
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I am on better together yes, and you are incorrect about a few things. Golems will spawn in water, I have an iron farm running right now that produces a little under a stack per hour, using the typical setup. I copied a farm design by gruva guy for it. I tried to follow the same general rules for how I understand a village to work, kind of like you laid out, for the design in the images. Basically as long as you have solid blocks overhead, and one side has more than the other, it gets registered as a village. Now I think it's registered since the villagers will breed, but no clue why golems don't spawn
Also. You're wrong about where they spawn, just like java, they spawn in a 16x16x6 cube at the village center.
Find me on YouTube Prowl8413
Find me on Twitter @Prowl8413
I have a water based spawn in looking at right now in my survival world, it's spawning plenty of golems in the water.
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Here are screens of my iron farm in a survival world I play with my kids. It's on the latest version that has the phantoms in it.
This was collected in about an hour and a half
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The iron farms have always produced about a stack an hour that I've seen.
Both my survival and my test world were made at about the same time, with those chunks loaded, so it's not that.
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Find me on Twitter @Prowl8413
Sorry didn't see you posted twice in a row. 1 stack an hour is probay slow for most. I play on my Xbox so I just leave it running all the time, it's not too bad for me. I'm gonna build 5 all within range of each other to run once I get this design to work, 5 stacks an hour will do me just fine i want this to be the central area of my base. So I need to get the aesthetics to look good, but this hang up with it not producing iron is putting everything on hold.
I've never sat and watched them spawn on the platforms to confirm if they are actually spawning on the water. I'll look for that and let you know.
Find me on YouTube Prowl8413
Find me on Twitter @Prowl8413
I have a 2-tier water-based iron golem farm that works perfectly fine, and I have witnessed the golems spawning in the middle of the pool without problems. It works exactly as expected. Houses are exactly as described in the Wiki as well. The Iron Titan super-farms are borked, but snail farms work as they always did.
And note that I was not always of this opinion - for a while my farm would not work at all and I was completely flabbergasted. Then some nice folks over at the bug tracker helped me realize an important thing: water counts as a roof block. Not your problem Prowl, but man it sure messed up my farm. I'd remove the water and boom, golems. I was convinced that golems couldn't spawn in water, but in truth I just didn't read the Wiki closely enough. (Obviously my doors/houses were reversed from yours, Prowl; my houses "outside" faced towards the water pool, and the water was screwing up the calculation for what was a "house".)
For your farm, Prowl, I think that the lower platform is too low? It looks like you have 4 full blocks below the doors down to the spawn platform. The golems spawn on the blocks, not on the water (that is, the Y value is the value of the block under the water), so I think maybe yours is 1 block too low. I had to rebuild my 2-tier farm twice because I kept mis-counting the above/below-the-door values for the spawn platforms.
This picture helped me work through it.
Below is how mine is set up, but actually I think maybe the lower platform can go a block lower, based on the above picture. So maybe yours is fine?
ASCII art! [ ] = any block, [-] = lower tier floor block, ^^ = upper half-slab, ~~ = water
[ ]
[ ]~~~~
D^^^^^^
D
[ ]
[ ]~~~~
[-][-][-][-]
You might want to make the spawn platforms 18x18 since it seems sometimes golems will spawn just slightly outside of the 16x16 area. In my original 1-tier farm I'd get them outside the pool sometimes, wandering the village. It was recommended to me that I do 18x18 and that fixed it.
Sorry if your farm is set up exactly this way; it's difficult to tell from screenshots because I'm bad at reading screenshots.
My doors are 1 block higher than yours, and I have a 4 block gap to the ceiling, not 3. I'm going to try your configuration to see if that fixes it.
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I also tried what was suggested, lowered the doors by 1 and lowered the ceiling to a 3 gap instead of 4. I made 1 floor water and no water on the other. Villagers eat food and breed no problem... No spawns after an hour. It really makes no sense at all to me... Then I have my 1 survival world iron farm, similar design (Not identical) which I cannot get to breed villagers no matter what I do, but produces golems in water just fine.
Find me on YouTube Prowl8413
Find me on Twitter @Prowl8413
About 20. And an hour should be more than enough. My understanding is the game tries to spawn one every 5 or 6 minutes. And it can vary up or down a little, but to go more than 15 or 20 minutes shouldn't be possible. I think it's either a bug... or there is some really weird game mechanics at play that are so different than java that no one has figured it out yet.
The only other thing I can think of, is I have tested many other working iron farms on this test world, I wonder if I've hit some type of world cap. It's not a passive mob cap, since the villagers spawn regularly, but maybe some other cap is at play in my test world doing this... I'll have to start a fresh world and see what happens.
Oh and you know how I mentioned my survival world will spawn golems buy the villagers won't take food or breed.
I've had maybe 4 instances where my villagers have gotten turned into witches. I wonder if maybe they aren't being removed from the villager cap when that happens, so the village thinks it's maxed out on villagers. Just a thought.
Find me on YouTube Prowl8413
Find me on Twitter @Prowl8413
I think if you've seen instances of no golems showing up for that long, then they appear, are not due to spawn rate, but more due to something in the game telling the village not to spawn the golems. But yes, there are 26 doors to the village. The breeding should be happening, I've built tons of breeders and other iron farms to know they should.
I think bedrock is so different you have to throw what you know about java out the window almost. I'm willing to bet when I get home tonight if I start a new world and make that exact design in it, it'll spawn golems no problem.
There may be a good way to test for a golem cap limit. I know with golem farms if you don't kill them and let them drop to the ground, they move out of the detection range of the spawning area, and more can keep spawning. Could always see in an empty world how many it'll spawn till it stops.
Find me on YouTube Prowl8413
Find me on Twitter @Prowl8413
I was trying to research a cap for golems, while I didn't find an answer, I saw an old thread talking about golems being counted as "utility mobs" in java, as opposed to passive or hostile mobs. So it's possible they are still classified as "utility" and that group has been given a cap.
Where they spawn is so weird. I can afk there for a couple overnights and they only spawn on the platforms and go in the lava. Then out if nowhere while playing in the area, I can go over, and 8 golems will be down on the ground. Now if it's villager based, my farms wouldn't show me that cause I always put my villagers symmetrically on both sides, so the mid point would always be the middle of my farm.
I'll be interested to see your video. We need to get this figured out with some sort of consensus.
Find me on YouTube Prowl8413
Find me on Twitter @Prowl8413
So, from what I can tell from your video. Seems like at the very minimum if land is available, they will favor land over water (be interested to see if it's all water if they spawn in it, and at the same rate. They still spawned within the 16x16 square of the village center, the center point if the doors. The villager placement seems to not have made any difference at all.
I'll run some tests of my own tonight/tomorrow. I want to see if starting a new world changes anything, I want to see if I compare 2 16x16 farms, 1 with land and 1 with water. I want to see if there is a spawn limit to the number of golems in a world. If water does in fact lower farm rates, to see if there is a better way to setup a farm, maybe using higher villager numbers and flushing the golems on a timer, kind of like a mob farm, or pulling them to a hole to drop into using a named mob like a skeleton or something.
Find me on YouTube Prowl8413
Find me on Twitter @Prowl8413
Ok, so some very unscientific testing here. I made these 3 iron farms in a new world, within range of each other so I could have them all loaded at once. I did just fly around and manually kill them. All of them did breed villagers fine
Farm #1 I made as something that would be simple and almost represent something that looked more like a village. #2 is a basic design of my own that should meet all village requirements. #3 is a replica of gruva guys design which I've used a ton in the past.
#2, my design, in 45 minutes spawned 1 golem and that's it. On the lower level.
#3, didn't spawn anything for the first 20 minutes, then put out maybe 21 iron
#1 started producing golems immediately, then didn't make anything for the last 20 minutes, it made about 19 iron.
Results that surprised me was that little dinky 1 level build produced as much as the 2 level one. But it could be the short sample size that did it.
No clue why #2 Didn't work. I am kind of suspicious of light level having something to do with spawning, specifically sky access... If anyone wants to maybe run some tests on that.
Find me on YouTube Prowl8413
Find me on Twitter @Prowl8413
My next step is I'm going to make 2 identical farms, and I'll water one, and just manually kill in the other one. It'll be a short test lol, but after an hour I'll make my conclusion. Then from there I can set 2 of the same farms up but 1 with 1 floor and 1 with 2 and afk for a while and see the rate difference. I'll do some more of these today and let you know.
It's a shame that bedrock doesn't allow for changing the game tick speed... this would be a lot easier.
Find me on YouTube Prowl8413
Find me on Twitter @Prowl8413
So I can say 2 levels definitely, as expected, makes a difference. After an hour afking the 1 level farm did 32 iron, the 2 level did 55. So it's fairly close to a stack an hour, spawning in water. 2 levels is almost double the effeciency of 1 level.
Next I'm testing without water vs with water. Identical farms.
Find me on YouTube Prowl8413
Find me on Twitter @Prowl8413
The reason 2 levels works better, assuming spawning mechanics work the same as java, which for this I haven't seen anything to show me otherwise, has to do with how the game checks for a spawn location.
The spawnable area for golems is a 16x16x6 cube based on the village center. I think there is a 1 in 7000 chance per game tic for a golem to spawn. In the 16x16x6 cube, there are 1536 spawnable locations. Each game tick, I believe it checks 6 of those locations at random. If there is a spawnable block there (solid block with atleast a 3 high ceiling), then it'll try to spawn a golem under that 1:7000 chance rule. So on a 1 level floor, you have 256 of the possible 1536 blocks spawnable, and a 2 level floor 512 of 1536 blocks spawnable. So your odds are effectively doubled.
This is all from memory, and there are some slightly deeper statistics that determine the spawn rate, but the above gives you a pretty detailed picture of how it works.
I also tested, again small sample size, I want to keep that disclosure, manually killing golems vs the water based systems. In the manual farm I put 40 villagers in it, that way I wouldn't get any reduction in spawns because I wasn't killing the golems fast enough. After an hour, in an identical set up minus the water, the one where I killed the golems netted me exactly 64 iron, vs the water one getting me 60, so i would call the rates the same. I really don't believe water makes a difference just based off what I've seen.
I never did get my original one to work. What I'll try, probably tomorrow. Is to section by section convert one of these working farms over, and see what breaks it. Is it villager location? Roofing the farm? Putting up walls? The fences? Atleast if I do it this way, I *should* be able to narrow down what block is doing it, then further test to figure out why.
My time is super limited, working full time, driving 2 kids to school every morning, doing online college classes l, and going to soccer games, so if you or anyone want to help me with some of these tests, that would be great!
Find me on YouTube Prowl8413
Find me on Twitter @Prowl8413
Prowl - Iron golems require 3.5 blocks of height to spawn even if they are only 3 blocks tall. It looked to me like your #2 farm above had exactly 3 blocks from floor to ceiling.
When I was getting help for my previously non-working farm (the one where flowing water appeared to be counted as a "roof") the person helping me found some behavior that implied that light level might actually be at play. The thinking was that the water - in addition to messing up how my houses' inside vs. outside were being calculated - might be lowering the light level on the spawn platform.
Since I solved the problem with water messing up my houses we never really chased that idea down. I always have glowstones in the floor of my bottom tier and around the perimeter of my upper tier anyhow, so the spawn area is always lit up. It shouldn't matter, but I want to prevent other hostiles anyhow so I light it up. And my farm produces consistently, in line with your 50-ish/hr for two spawn platforms.
Good luck.
FlnDutch - in your last screenshot it looks like you might have water blocks (a source and at least one flowing) at the same level as the bottom of your doors in the corners. I know you don't place much faith in the Wiki, however according to it (as well as all of the problems and troubleshooting I did with my original farm) water blocks will count as "roof". So it's possible you have 4 doors that aren't counting as houses.
My original farm was a similar design, where the "outside" of the houses faced towards the pool. Once I dropped the pool down one block, it started producing normally. I have since flipped my houses around so that the upper spawn platform is just the roof for all of them, and there's open space for 5 blocks facing outwards. Solved all my problems.
I play on Xbox right now so commands are a pain, may hook my keyboard and mouse to it tomorrow though.
I definitely think it's fair to assume not all mechanics are the same, but I'd assume they used java as their starting point. Let us know what you get from a 2 level vs a 1 level.
Attached is the 2 level farm I'm using (the 1 level was just this with the 2nd level floor deleted, and the non water farm was just this without water. So going forward this farm is my 'control' so to speak.
Find me on YouTube Prowl8413
Find me on Twitter @Prowl8413
That 2-level farm is working for you?[Edit] I see it's basically Gruva's simple farm design, so I'm sure it's working.