Why is it that ores seem to cluster? It shouldn't happen, but it does. Has anyone else noticed it? I have started collecting screen shots of ore clusters, and will start posting them. I'd like to see other folks pics as well if your finding the same thing.
... so your saying that its weird how iron generates in clumps? Thats supposed to happen. It usually generates with 2-8 in the clump. Why are you saying that it shouldn't happen?
... so your saying that its weird how iron generates in clumps? Thats supposed to happen. It usually generates with 2-8 in the clump. Why are you saying that it shouldn't happen?
I'll post a pic tomorrow, no all ores generate in veins (cept emerald). What I am talking about is two or more ore types in contact or near contact with each other. The short mining adventure I did last night found one of these clusters. 4 gold ore, next to a vein of coal, separated by one block from a vein of 5 diamonds.
Would please explain how this isn't supposed to happen according to the math? I'm pretty sure there is no code in the terrain generator that specifically makes ore veins spaced out.
Here's a look at the ore distribution in an actual world - I do not see any obvious patterns and any clustering of veins is due to random chance:
There likely is some bias due to the method used to generate random numbers (a pseudorandom number generator is not truly random, and each chunk's seed is a function of the chunk coordinates and world seed) but not enough to create any obvious pattern (except in certain seeds, and this only appears to be able to affect caves and structures due to the use of a different method to generate the per-chunk seed).
There is no code that would make them cluster either. If they are evenly distributed then it stands to reason that a few would occur clustered, but that most would not.
Here's a look at the ore distribution in an actual world - I do not see any obvious patterns and any clustering of veins is due to random chance:
There likely is some bias due to the method used to generate random numbers (a pseudorandom number generator is not truly random, and each chunk's seed is a function of the chunk coordinates and world seed) but not enough to create any obvious pattern (except in certain seeds, and this only appears to be able to affect caves and structures due to the use of a different method to generate the per-chunk seed).
I have thought about that, we tend to see patterns where their are none. I've also thought that maybe I was seeing, it because I was breaking more blocks in certain spots. It you're digging a 1x2 tunnel you are breaking only so many blocks, if you then deviate from that to mine ore, you are breaking more blocks and exposing more surrounding blocks. I just wondered if anyone else had noticed it, and if it had to do with the randomization process.
There is no code that would make them cluster either. If they are evenly distributed then it stands to reason that a few would occur clustered, but that most would not.
Ores are only "evenly distributed" in the sense that there is a fixed number of veins generated in each chunk-sized area - but they are not evenly distributed within each chunk.
Here is the code that places veins of ore; as you can see, a random offset of 0-15 is added to the chunk coordinates (multiplied by 16) and the y-coordinate is randomized between the minimum and maximum altitudes:
/**
* Standard ore generation helper. Generates most ores.
*/
protected void genStandardOre1(int par1, WorldGenerator par2WorldGenerator, int par3, int par4)
{
for (int var5 = 0; var5 < par1; ++var5)
{
int var6 = this.chunk_X + this.randomGenerator.nextInt(16);
int var7 = this.randomGenerator.nextInt(par4 - par3) + par3;
int var8 = this.chunk_Z + this.randomGenerator.nextInt(16);
par2WorldGenerator.generate(this.currentWorld, this.randomGenerator, var6, var7, var8);
}
}
Even in the case of ores like diamond, with just one vein per chunk, it is possible to have as many as four veins touching since an offset of 15 for chunk 0 (absolute coordinate 15) will be next to an offset of 0 for chunk 1 (absolute coordinate 16).
Yes, by looking around with Minutor I do indeed see quite a few occurrences of two or more veins intersecting but the majority of veins appear to be by themselves. However, you are more likely to find such clusters since your branch mine (or cave) is more likely to intersect a larger cluster, which is also why coal seems more common than it actually is (at least when caving or mining a single 1x2 tunnel without branches; I've also counted the amount of ore exposed in caves which confirms this; when compared to iron the amount of coal exposed (below sea level) is consistently around 50-60% greater than expected. Note that I only included any veins touching air blocks, not veins touching other veins which in turn were exposed).
Another way to see this is to consider the information given in this post; they say that you can expect to find 0.88 diamond ore for every 100 blocks mined with standard branch-mining, which comes out to one ore for every 341 blocks exposed (since you mine 113.6 blocks per ore found, or a 1x2 tunnel 56.8 blocks long, which exposes 6 blocks for every block of length or 341 blocks) - which is about three times less than you would expect if it came in single blocks.
You can even calculate the probability of two veins touching; assuming a simple 2x2x2 cube, there are a total of 2x2x6 = 24 blocks exposed when you mine it out and about 2.7% of blocks are ore at the typical branch-mining levels. This means that there is a 2.7% x 24 = 64.8% chance of one of those exposed blocks being ore, which seems rather high and the actual chance is probably less due to the fact ores generate in veins, reducing their randomness throughout a chunk since they are clustered together.
Why is it that ores seem to cluster? It shouldn't happen, but it does. Has anyone else noticed it? I have started collecting screen shots of ore clusters, and will start posting them. I'd like to see other folks pics as well if your finding the same thing.
Seems that's more realistic really. aren't ores in clusters IRL
They tend to be. But according to the math it shouldn't happen in Minecraft.
... so your saying that its weird how iron generates in clumps? Thats supposed to happen. It usually generates with 2-8 in the clump. Why are you saying that it shouldn't happen?
I'll post a pic tomorrow, no all ores generate in veins (cept emerald). What I am talking about is two or more ore types in contact or near contact with each other. The short mining adventure I did last night found one of these clusters. 4 gold ore, next to a vein of coal, separated by one block from a vein of 5 diamonds.
Would please explain how this isn't supposed to happen according to the math? I'm pretty sure there is no code in the terrain generator that specifically makes ore veins spaced out.
The human brain is very good at seeing patterns in what is otherwise random noise; it is pure random chance that two or more veins will touch, especially when there are dozens of veins being generated in every chunk.
Here's a look at the ore distribution in an actual world - I do not see any obvious patterns and any clustering of veins is due to random chance:
There likely is some bias due to the method used to generate random numbers (a pseudorandom number generator is not truly random, and each chunk's seed is a function of the chunk coordinates and world seed) but not enough to create any obvious pattern (except in certain seeds, and this only appears to be able to affect caves and structures due to the use of a different method to generate the per-chunk seed).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
There is no code that would make them cluster either. If they are evenly distributed then it stands to reason that a few would occur clustered, but that most would not.
I have thought about that, we tend to see patterns where their are none. I've also thought that maybe I was seeing, it because I was breaking more blocks in certain spots. It you're digging a 1x2 tunnel you are breaking only so many blocks, if you then deviate from that to mine ore, you are breaking more blocks and exposing more surrounding blocks. I just wondered if anyone else had noticed it, and if it had to do with the randomization process.
Ores are only "evenly distributed" in the sense that there is a fixed number of veins generated in each chunk-sized area - but they are not evenly distributed within each chunk.
Here is the code that places veins of ore; as you can see, a random offset of 0-15 is added to the chunk coordinates (multiplied by 16) and the y-coordinate is randomized between the minimum and maximum altitudes:
Even in the case of ores like diamond, with just one vein per chunk, it is possible to have as many as four veins touching since an offset of 15 for chunk 0 (absolute coordinate 15) will be next to an offset of 0 for chunk 1 (absolute coordinate 16).
Yes, by looking around with Minutor I do indeed see quite a few occurrences of two or more veins intersecting but the majority of veins appear to be by themselves. However, you are more likely to find such clusters since your branch mine (or cave) is more likely to intersect a larger cluster, which is also why coal seems more common than it actually is (at least when caving or mining a single 1x2 tunnel without branches; I've also counted the amount of ore exposed in caves which confirms this; when compared to iron the amount of coal exposed (below sea level) is consistently around 50-60% greater than expected. Note that I only included any veins touching air blocks, not veins touching other veins which in turn were exposed).
Another way to see this is to consider the information given in this post; they say that you can expect to find 0.88 diamond ore for every 100 blocks mined with standard branch-mining, which comes out to one ore for every 341 blocks exposed (since you mine 113.6 blocks per ore found, or a 1x2 tunnel 56.8 blocks long, which exposes 6 blocks for every block of length or 341 blocks) - which is about three times less than you would expect if it came in single blocks.
You can even calculate the probability of two veins touching; assuming a simple 2x2x2 cube, there are a total of 2x2x6 = 24 blocks exposed when you mine it out and about 2.7% of blocks are ore at the typical branch-mining levels. This means that there is a 2.7% x 24 = 64.8% chance of one of those exposed blocks being ore, which seems rather high and the actual chance is probably less due to the fact ores generate in veins, reducing their randomness throughout a chunk since they are clustered together.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?