I think it's interesting to note what John Carmack had to say in his brief surfacing from the depths of coding.
Quote from "John Carmack" »
For the record, I am coding right now, just like I was last week.I expect the FB deal will avoid several embarrassing scaling crisis for VR.
Quote from "John Carmack" »
I have a deep respect for the technical scale that FB operates at. The cyberspace we want for VR will be at this scale.
Personally, the fact that he is on the team kinda keeps me somewhat optimistic about the future of the rift. If he leaves I'll have to revise my optimism.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tis far better to be a witty fool than a foolish wit.
It doesn't sound like much but with Notch I am also dropping my support for the rift. Sorry but FB just wants a bigger version of google glass and btw people playing VR candy crush scares me. A lot, like creeper scare when i am crafting with diamonds.
For all you people who didn't take the time to see exactly WHY facebook bought Oculus, here is Mark's blogpost on the matter.
I'm excited to announce that we've agreed to acquire Oculus VR, the leader in virtual reality technology.
Our mission is to make the world more open and connected. For the past few years, this has mostly meant building mobile apps that help you share with the people you care about. We have a lot more to do on mobile, but at this point we feel we're in a position where we can start focusing on what platforms will come next to enable even more useful, entertaining and personal experiences.
This is where Oculus comes in. They build virtual reality technology, like the Oculus Rift headset. When you put it on, you enter a completely immersive computer-generated environment, like a game or a movie scene or a place far away. The incredible thing about the technology is that you feel like you're actually present in another place with other people. People who try it say it's different from anything they've ever experienced in their lives.
Oculus's mission is to enable you to experience the impossible. Their technology opens up the possibility of completely new kinds of experiences.
Immersive gaming will be the first, and Oculus already has big plans here that won't be changing and we hope to accelerate. The Rift is highly anticipated by the gaming community, and there's a lot of interest from developers in building for this platform. We're going to focus on helping Oculus build out their product and develop partnerships to support more games. Oculus will continue operating independently within Facebook to achieve this.
But this is just the start. After games, we're going to make Oculus a platform for many other experiences. Imagine enjoying a court side seat at a game, studying in a classroom of students and teachers all over the world or consulting with a doctor face-to-face -- just by putting on goggles in your home.
This is really a new communication platform. By feeling truly present, you can share unbounded spaces and experiences with the people in your life. Imagine sharing not just moments with your friends online, but entire experiences and adventures.
These are just some of the potential uses. By working with developers and partners across the industry, together we can build many more. One day, we believe this kind of immersive, augmented reality will become a part of daily life for billions of people.
Virtual reality was once the dream of science fiction. But the internet was also once a dream, and so were computers and smartphones. The future is coming and we have a chance to build it together. I can't wait to start working with the whole team at Oculus to bring this future to the world, and to unlock new worlds for all of us.
Facebook has the same vision for Oculus that everyone else did, they're helping by buying it out so Oculus can develop it twice as fast and get a cheaper consumer model way before they anticipated. Facebook isn't going to crap all over Oculus like everyone is saying. Everyone saying that is uninformed.
"Immersive gaming will be the first, and Oculus already has big plans here that won't be changing and we hope to accelerate. The Rift is highly anticipated by the gaming community, and there's a lot of interest from developers in building for this platform. We're going to focus on helping Oculus build out their product and develop partnerships to support more games. Oculus will continue operating independently within Facebook to achieve this."
Facebook has the same vision for Oculus that everyone else did, they're helping by buying it out so Oculus can develop it twice as fast and get a cheaper consumer model way before they anticipated. Facebook isn't going to crap all over Oculus like everyone is saying. Everyone saying that is uninformed.
If you honestly believe that, I feel sorry for you. Now that Facebook owns it, you can bet they are going to have a strong influence over how it gets developed. Sure, it has the financial backing to get more done faster, but it's still going to ultimately be pushed toward whatever Facebook's interest is. And Facebook's interests are, in general, horrifying.
The only thing I can think of that would have been worse than this is if EA had bought Oculus...
If you honestly believe that, I feel sorry for you. Now that Facebook owns it, you can bet they are going to have a strong influence over how it gets developed. Sure, it has the financial backing to get more done faster, but it's still going to ultimately be pushed toward whatever Facebook's interest is. And Facebook's interests are, in general, horrifying.
The only thing I can think of that would have been worse than this is if EA had bought Oculus...
I'll admit, I don't like Facebook either (especially as an NSA spy program and whatnot), but I think everyone is wrong in how quick they are to judge what's happening here. Sitting in movie theaters and all that stuff with friends around the world, all those social aspects are things I heard about BEFORE Facebook bought Oculus. Even with Facebook's desires in mind, it especially won't change the gaming purpose for Oculus. If you look at all the other blogposts from the Oculus team and everyone involved, it wasn't about money either. This is about development.
I'll admit, I don't like Facebook either (especially as an NSA spy program and whatnot), but I think everyone is wrong in how quick they are to judge what's happening here. Sitting in movie theaters and all that stuff with friends around the world, all those social aspects are things I heard about BEFORE Facebook bought Oculus. Even with Facebook's desires in mind, it especially won't change the gaming purpose for Oculus. If you look at all the other blogposts from the Oculus team and everyone involved, it wasn't about money either. This is about development.
I must add that I am more neutral on this whole matter than i'm appearing to be, but the benefits of this situation must be known.
I don't like facebook either, but no one has even seen how facebook is actually involving itself in development yet, and no sound opinions can be had until then.
The funniest part here is that all the people trashing Facebook, are probably running off to Facebook to post about it to their friends.....
Seriously, this is the most immature "business" decision I've ever seen. Canning a huge deal that most of your customers probably still want, based solely on the fact a company "creeps you out"? Yeah... real business like. The only one who pays for Notch's irrational paranoia are the MC fans looking forward to official Oculus support. All these wild conspiracy theories flying around about the future of the Oculus now that Facebook owns it are baseless at this point. Its almost certainly going to be delivered as the product everyone expected, perhaps just a little quicker. The ideas that its somehow not going to work with games, or that its going to be a lesser quality product, or that you will need to run it through Facebook are crazy. Sure, Facebook might develop functions for the Rift.... but so what? The notion that VR would stay in the realm of gaming and only gaming is equally crazy.
You know, Notch is a very unremarkable man for what he does. Anyone who has modded MC knows that his programming ability is terrible, his game design ability is questionable, and he is clearly no businessman. He would probably not be able to get a job with any major game development studios with his lack of talent. Yet he got incredibly lucky with Minecraft, a mash up of features borrowed from other games (that itself started as a clone of another game) with no originality what so ever... and he should accept that lightning doesn't strike twice, take his millions, and retire somewhere never to be heard from again laughing all the way. It would be the best possible thing for the future of Minecraft and the gaming community as a whole if he just vanished, because far too many people view him as some sort of expert on game development... and its never good when unremarkable and untalented people are viewed as experts.
...it wasn't about money either. This is about development.
I understand that argument, and if someone like Valve had been the buyer, I wouldn't be sitting here lamenting. Even if it had been Google, I'd have remained cautiously optimistic. Heck, even Microsoft would have been tolerable (though only barely). But Facebook? Trust me, nothing good can come of this.
Besides, even if you trust Facebook to not make a royal farce of this, it's not going to fly well. People have far too much of a "love/hate" view of Facebook, and gamers are typically in the "hate" category (and rightly so). That alone is going to stifle their success (Notch immediately jumping ship is a prime example), and that won't help them to be able to sell whatever they end up peddling.
I understand that argument, and if someone like Valve had been the buyer, I wouldn't be sitting here lamenting. Even if it had been Google, I'd have remained cautiously optimistic. But Facebook? Trust me, nothing good can come of this.
Besides, even if you trust Facebook to not make a royal farce of this, it's not going to fly well. People have far too much of a "love/hate" view of Facebook, and gamers are typically in the "hate" category. That alone is going to stifle their success (Notch immediately jumping ship is a prime example), and that won't help them to be able to sell whatever they end up peddling.
I understand what you're saying, but i'm personally okay with it as long as I can use the Rift for gaming--I heard valve is in support of this situation by the way. The modding community is vast and diverse enough anyways that there will still be Oculus support for a crapload of games whether other companies support it or not.
This is not to say i'm not skeptical of Facebook's involvement, i am VERY skeptical, however, I have reason to believe that the Oculus did not just go down the drain.
Are people ever going to go outside again? like, will we ever need to actually see people in person? Won't we now just be able to oculus them? What good will come out of this?
It’s amazing how many people panic for no reason at all, what is Facebook going to do? Make you use their proprietary game engine and force ads? The gaming community can be pretty naive.
I honestly think Facebook is desperate. They are throwing all there money at stuff just to get popular. i never use Facebook anymore . I was so happy with Rift but now i have no more interest in getting it when it comes out. I will keep my eyes on it and all to see whats going on but unless there is something huge i will not buy it all because of FACEBOOK
Then frankly Notch is an idiot, because in the not too distant future that will be similar to saying you don't want to show up in a google search or that you don't want to have a real business address. Facebook has become a fact of life, and even if it were to be usurped by a rival, social networking is only going to be used more and more, with further reaching ties. What does it matter if you're playing a game from within a virtual world overlay or not? How does that change anything about the core features? This has nothing to do with existing facebook games, they're only representative of the kind of market that WOULDN'T be interested in VR.Besides if Notch really cared about games, he'd have finnished 0x10c
saying we have to accept Facebook because social media is a thing is like saying we need to accept EA because games are popular. contrary to what you seem to think 'social media' does not equal Facebook. Facebook steals private information and is the very definition of a money grabbing establishment. we don't like Facebook because Facebook does sketchy things that lots of people in the game industry don't want to be involved with.
Oculus rift was FAR ahead of anyone else developing VR. The reason people are upset is the leader in VR technology is now in owned by a sketchy company with questionable motives and means of making money. Its always about making money but some people and company's know when to stop. Facebook does not.
For all you people who didn't take the time to see exactly WHY facebook bought Oculus, here is Mark's blogpost on the matter.
[color=#37404E][font=lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=x-small][color=#898F9C][size=small]I'm excited to announce that we've agreed to acquire Oculus VR, the leader in virtual reality technology.
Our mission is to make the world more open and connected. For the past few years, this has mostly meant building mobile apps that help you share with the people you care about. We have a lot more to do on mobile, but at this point we feel we're in a position where we can start focusing on what platforms will come next to enable even more useful, entertaining and personal experiences.
This is where Oculus comes in. They build virtual reality technology, like the Oculus Rift headset. When you put it on, you enter a completely immersive computer-generated environment, like a game or a movie scene or a place far away. The incredible thing about the technology is that you feel like you're actually present in another place with other people. People who try it say it's different from anything they've ever experienced in their lives.
Oculus's mission is to enable you to experience the impossible. Their technology opens up the possibility of completely new kinds of experiences.
Immersive gaming will be the first, and Oculus already has big plans here that won't be changing and we hope to accelerate. The Rift is highly anticipated by the gaming community, and there's a lot of interest from developers in building for this platform. We're going to focus on helping Oculus build out their product and develop partnerships to support more games. Oculus will continue operating independently within Facebook to achieve this.
But this is just the start. After games, we're going to make Oculus a platform for many other experiences. Imagine enjoying a court side seat at a game, studying in a classroom of students and teachers all over the world or consulting with a doctor face-to-face -- just by putting on goggles in your home.
This is really a new communication platform. By feeling truly present, you can share unbounded spaces and experiences with the people in your life. Imagine sharing not just moments with your friends online, but entire experiences and adventures.
These are just some of the potential uses. By working with developers and partners across the industry, together we can build many more. One day, we believe this kind of immersive, augmented reality will become a part of daily life for billions of people.
Virtual reality was once the dream of science fiction. But the internet was also once a dream, and so were computers and smartphones. The future is coming and we have a chance to build it together. I can't wait to start working with the whole team at Oculus to bring this future to the world, and to unlock new worlds for all of us.[/size][/color][/size][/font][/color]
Facebook has the same vision for Oculus that everyone else did, they're helping by buying it out so Oculus can develop it twice as fast and get a cheaper consumer model way before they anticipated. Facebook isn't going to crap all over Oculus like everyone is saying. Everyone saying that is uninformed.
"Immersive gaming will be the first, and Oculus already has big plans here that won't be changing and we hope to accelerate. The Rift is highly anticipated by the gaming community, and there's a lot of interest from developers in building for this platform. We're going to focus on helping Oculus build out their product and develop partnerships to support more games. Oculus will continue operating independently within Facebook to achieve this."[/background][/size][/font][/color]
1, "Our mission is to make the world more open and connected." that is a load of bull you get warnings on facebook for friending people randomly
2."]this has mostly meant building mobile apps that help you share with the people you care about" ok 1 you let the real fake accounts used to harass go and freeze the legit ones so they cant share or anything thinking they are not real people that is balone and what would they know about care? They block accounts for no reason and let the real jerks do as they please
I don't see how I can believe facebook they are a company up to no good using resources to abuse most don't think about but its all I have because most forums (not this 1) are worse then facebook and facebook is already bad enough
I must be one of the few dissenters with Notch here.
Of course it is wierd that Facebook bought OR. google should have done it. Or Microsoft.
And somebody would have a beef with that as well because they don't like those companies.
Ain't no pleasing anybody once they get political about who they will or won't do business with.
Notch is letting his personal feelings on FB get in the way of the business of Minecraft and the opportunity for MC to be part of Occulus Rift. This means, there's room for somebody else to make their Voxel game dominate the OR market.
That's not a good thing for Minecraft. Reduced number of products in the OR game space isn't good for gamers either.
Maybe MC can get in good with Sony's product instead. Otherwise, MC is going to miss the VR headset boat and somebody else is going to get to market instead.
For all you people who didn't take the time to see exactly WHY facebook bought Oculus, here is Mark's blogpost on the matter.
I'm excited to announce that we've agreed to acquire Oculus VR, the leader in virtual reality technology.
Our mission is to make the world more open and connected. For the past few years, this has mostly meant building mobile apps that help you share with the people you care about. We have a lot more to do on mobile, but at this point we feel we're in a position where we can start focusing on what platforms will come next to enable even more useful, entertaining and personal experiences.
This is where Oculus comes in. They build virtual reality technology, like the Oculus Rift headset. When you put it on, you enter a completely immersive computer-generated environment, like a game or a movie scene or a place far away. The incredible thing about the technology is that you feel like you're actually present in another place with other people. People who try it say it's different from anything they've ever experienced in their lives.
Oculus's mission is to enable you to experience the impossible. Their technology opens up the possibility of completely new kinds of experiences.
Immersive gaming will be the first, and Oculus already has big plans here that won't be changing and we hope to accelerate. The Rift is highly anticipated by the gaming community, and there's a lot of interest from developers in building for this platform. We're going to focus on helping Oculus build out their product and develop partnerships to support more games. Oculus will continue operating independently within Facebook to achieve this.
But this is just the start. After games, we're going to make Oculus a platform for many other experiences. Imagine enjoying a court side seat at a game, studying in a classroom of students and teachers all over the world or consulting with a doctor face-to-face -- just by putting on goggles in your home.
This is really a new communication platform. By feeling truly present, you can share unbounded spaces and experiences with the people in your life. Imagine sharing not just moments with your friends online, but entire experiences and adventures.
These are just some of the potential uses. By working with developers and partners across the industry, together we can build many more. One day, we believe this kind of immersive, augmented reality will become a part of daily life for billions of people.
Virtual reality was once the dream of science fiction. But the internet was also once a dream, and so were computers and smartphones. The future is coming and we have a chance to build it together. I can't wait to start working with the whole team at Oculus to bring this future to the world, and to unlock new worlds for all of us.
Facebook has the same vision for Oculus that everyone else did, they're helping by buying it out so Oculus can develop it twice as fast and get a cheaper consumer model way before they anticipated. Facebook isn't going to crap all over Oculus like everyone is saying. Everyone saying that is uninformed.
"Immersive gaming will be the first, and Oculus already has big plans here that won't be changing and we hope to accelerate. The Rift is highly anticipated by the gaming community, and there's a lot of interest from developers in building for this platform. We're going to focus on helping Oculus build out their product and develop partnerships to support more games. Oculus will continue operating independently within Facebook to achieve this."
Good points.
In all probability, FB bought OR because Mark Zuckerberg thought OR was cool.
It's less about FB being evil, and more about Zuckerberg is still a nerd and likely a gaming geek and where Notch only chipped in $10K, the Zuck chipped in a bit more.
i agree it's totally silly for FB to buy a VR headset technology. They'd need to follow up with buying Second Life or Minecraft in order to flush out the Virtual world/community concept as a social platform.
But I'd bet it's more about Mark just digging the OR product.
And now, Notch has peed in the Cheerios. Good luck 3 years from now when he and MZ are at the same trade shows and this "rivalry" has stirred up drama when they actually do need to work together.
It will still be possible, but in the form of a unofficial mod, such as Minecrift.
Personally, the fact that he is on the team kinda keeps me somewhat optimistic about the future of the rift. If he leaves I'll have to revise my optimism.
I'm excited to announce that we've agreed to acquire Oculus VR, the leader in virtual reality technology.
Our mission is to make the world more open and connected. For the past few years, this has mostly meant building mobile apps that help you share with the people you care about. We have a lot more to do on mobile, but at this point we feel we're in a position where we can start focusing on what platforms will come next to enable even more useful, entertaining and personal experiences.
This is where Oculus comes in. They build virtual reality technology, like the Oculus Rift headset. When you put it on, you enter a completely immersive computer-generated environment, like a game or a movie scene or a place far away. The incredible thing about the technology is that you feel like you're actually present in another place with other people. People who try it say it's different from anything they've ever experienced in their lives.
Oculus's mission is to enable you to experience the impossible. Their technology opens up the possibility of completely new kinds of experiences.
Immersive gaming will be the first, and Oculus already has big plans here that won't be changing and we hope to accelerate. The Rift is highly anticipated by the gaming community, and there's a lot of interest from developers in building for this platform. We're going to focus on helping Oculus build out their product and develop partnerships to support more games. Oculus will continue operating independently within Facebook to achieve this.
But this is just the start. After games, we're going to make Oculus a platform for many other experiences. Imagine enjoying a court side seat at a game, studying in a classroom of students and teachers all over the world or consulting with a doctor face-to-face -- just by putting on goggles in your home.
This is really a new communication platform. By feeling truly present, you can share unbounded spaces and experiences with the people in your life. Imagine sharing not just moments with your friends online, but entire experiences and adventures.
These are just some of the potential uses. By working with developers and partners across the industry, together we can build many more. One day, we believe this kind of immersive, augmented reality will become a part of daily life for billions of people.
Virtual reality was once the dream of science fiction. But the internet was also once a dream, and so were computers and smartphones. The future is coming and we have a chance to build it together. I can't wait to start working with the whole team at Oculus to bring this future to the world, and to unlock new worlds for all of us.
Facebook has the same vision for Oculus that everyone else did, they're helping by buying it out so Oculus can develop it twice as fast and get a cheaper consumer model way before they anticipated. Facebook isn't going to crap all over Oculus like everyone is saying. Everyone saying that is uninformed.
"Immersive gaming will be the first, and Oculus already has big plans here that won't be changing and we hope to accelerate. The Rift is highly anticipated by the gaming community, and there's a lot of interest from developers in building for this platform. We're going to focus on helping Oculus build out their product and develop partnerships to support more games. Oculus will continue operating independently within Facebook to achieve this."
If you honestly believe that, I feel sorry for you. Now that Facebook owns it, you can bet they are going to have a strong influence over how it gets developed. Sure, it has the financial backing to get more done faster, but it's still going to ultimately be pushed toward whatever Facebook's interest is. And Facebook's interests are, in general, horrifying.
The only thing I can think of that would have been worse than this is if EA had bought Oculus...
I'll admit, I don't like Facebook either (especially as an NSA spy program and whatnot), but I think everyone is wrong in how quick they are to judge what's happening here. Sitting in movie theaters and all that stuff with friends around the world, all those social aspects are things I heard about BEFORE Facebook bought Oculus. Even with Facebook's desires in mind, it especially won't change the gaming purpose for Oculus. If you look at all the other blogposts from the Oculus team and everyone involved, it wasn't about money either. This is about development.
I must add that I am more neutral on this whole matter than i'm appearing to be, but the benefits of this situation must be known.
I don't like facebook either, but no one has even seen how facebook is actually involving itself in development yet, and no sound opinions can be had until then.
Seriously, this is the most immature "business" decision I've ever seen. Canning a huge deal that most of your customers probably still want, based solely on the fact a company "creeps you out"? Yeah... real business like. The only one who pays for Notch's irrational paranoia are the MC fans looking forward to official Oculus support. All these wild conspiracy theories flying around about the future of the Oculus now that Facebook owns it are baseless at this point. Its almost certainly going to be delivered as the product everyone expected, perhaps just a little quicker. The ideas that its somehow not going to work with games, or that its going to be a lesser quality product, or that you will need to run it through Facebook are crazy. Sure, Facebook might develop functions for the Rift.... but so what? The notion that VR would stay in the realm of gaming and only gaming is equally crazy.
You know, Notch is a very unremarkable man for what he does. Anyone who has modded MC knows that his programming ability is terrible, his game design ability is questionable, and he is clearly no businessman. He would probably not be able to get a job with any major game development studios with his lack of talent. Yet he got incredibly lucky with Minecraft, a mash up of features borrowed from other games (that itself started as a clone of another game) with no originality what so ever... and he should accept that lightning doesn't strike twice, take his millions, and retire somewhere never to be heard from again laughing all the way. It would be the best possible thing for the future of Minecraft and the gaming community as a whole if he just vanished, because far too many people view him as some sort of expert on game development... and its never good when unremarkable and untalented people are viewed as experts.
I understand that argument, and if someone like Valve had been the buyer, I wouldn't be sitting here lamenting. Even if it had been Google, I'd have remained cautiously optimistic. Heck, even Microsoft would have been tolerable (though only barely). But Facebook? Trust me, nothing good can come of this.
Besides, even if you trust Facebook to not make a royal farce of this, it's not going to fly well. People have far too much of a "love/hate" view of Facebook, and gamers are typically in the "hate" category (and rightly so). That alone is going to stifle their success (Notch immediately jumping ship is a prime example), and that won't help them to be able to sell whatever they end up peddling.
I understand what you're saying, but i'm personally okay with it as long as I can use the Rift for gaming--I heard valve is in support of this situation by the way. The modding community is vast and diverse enough anyways that there will still be Oculus support for a crapload of games whether other companies support it or not.
This is not to say i'm not skeptical of Facebook's involvement, i am VERY skeptical, however, I have reason to believe that the Oculus did not just go down the drain.
saying we have to accept Facebook because social media is a thing is like saying we need to accept EA because games are popular. contrary to what you seem to think 'social media' does not equal Facebook. Facebook steals private information and is the very definition of a money grabbing establishment. we don't like Facebook because Facebook does sketchy things that lots of people in the game industry don't want to be involved with.
Oculus rift was FAR ahead of anyone else developing VR. The reason people are upset is the leader in VR technology is now in owned by a sketchy company with questionable motives and means of making money. Its always about making money but some people and company's know when to stop. Facebook does not.
1, "Our mission is to make the world more open and connected." that is a load of bull you get warnings on facebook for friending people randomly
2."]this has mostly meant building mobile apps that help you share with the people you care about" ok 1 you let the real fake accounts used to harass go and freeze the legit ones so they cant share or anything thinking they are not real people that is balone and what would they know about care? They block accounts for no reason and let the real jerks do as they please
I don't see how I can believe facebook they are a company up to no good using resources to abuse most don't think about but its all I have because most forums (not this 1) are worse then facebook and facebook is already bad enough
Of course it is wierd that Facebook bought OR. google should have done it. Or Microsoft.
And somebody would have a beef with that as well because they don't like those companies.
Ain't no pleasing anybody once they get political about who they will or won't do business with.
Notch is letting his personal feelings on FB get in the way of the business of Minecraft and the opportunity for MC to be part of Occulus Rift. This means, there's room for somebody else to make their Voxel game dominate the OR market.
That's not a good thing for Minecraft. Reduced number of products in the OR game space isn't good for gamers either.
Maybe MC can get in good with Sony's product instead. Otherwise, MC is going to miss the VR headset boat and somebody else is going to get to market instead.
Good points.
In all probability, FB bought OR because Mark Zuckerberg thought OR was cool.
It's less about FB being evil, and more about Zuckerberg is still a nerd and likely a gaming geek and where Notch only chipped in $10K, the Zuck chipped in a bit more.
i agree it's totally silly for FB to buy a VR headset technology. They'd need to follow up with buying Second Life or Minecraft in order to flush out the Virtual world/community concept as a social platform.
But I'd bet it's more about Mark just digging the OR product.
And now, Notch has peed in the Cheerios. Good luck 3 years from now when he and MZ are at the same trade shows and this "rivalry" has stirred up drama when they actually do need to work together.