I don't believe this at all..... Simon and luois seem like generally good natured people apart from the occasional swear word here and there... I'm not sure about Hannah either but I don't know **** about her so she might have been responsible. But in the case of who I trust, obviously I'm going with notch, because who are you going to believe ? The man who created minecraft itself, or a group that gained popularity out of posting videos about it. I feel really really sorry for notch, I would be flipping out if these people came to my celebration party and demands for money and insulted my guests. Personally I hope things work out in notches favor if there has to be only one party that succeds.
Why not wait for Yogscast to reply, then decide who you want to trust?
Eh, I'm gonna have to wait and hold off on making a judgement before full details come out. am138's post pretty much sums up my argument, although I haven't done much to look into the Bethesda lawsuit.
I suppose overall I fall down on the side of the Yogscast with the information provided so far, but I think the majority arguments posed by both sides in this thread and about fifty identical ones on this forum show a distinct lack of intelligence.
First off, most of you should probably read Total Biscuits analysis of the situation on Reddit. It pretty much echoes my opinion on the matter (although we differ on some points) and contains reasoned arguments unlike 90% of what inhabits this thread, which primarily seems to be Notch or Yogscast fanboyism. Both parties can be seen to be at fault depending on your perspective. Anyway, on to the meat of my opinion on the matter.
Remember the legal action taken by Bethesda against Mojang? This situation echoes that one in all honesty. Initial reports were that Bethesda were unfoundedly suing Mojang for calling their game 'Scrolls' because it was, to quote much less savoury games journalism, "too similar" to the name of the Elder Scrolls series. This belief was compounded by Notch's reaction to the lawsuit online - at no stage did he decide to reveal the fact that actually the legal dispute arose over the attempt by Mojang to trademark the word 'Scrolls'. Now that's a whole different ball park, and in that instance, Mojang is definitely in the wrong. Attempting to trademark a common word just screams of EDGE Games and the idiocy surrounding Tim Langdell's aggressive pursuit of complete ownership over the word "Edge" when related to gaming. Bethesda was right in that situation, and by legally challenging Mojang's decision was simply trying to prevent one company gaining ownership of a noun.
How is this relevant? Once again the only information which is causing controversy so far is being provided by Notch via twitter, and once again people are making huge leaps of judgement from what is, of course, one source; and one very overworked and [most likely] very irritable source too. Add on to that the fact that Notch seems to have a tendency to omit various details from these kinds of situations (look no further than the lawsuit described above) and you can clearly see that to throw stupid anger in the direction of the Yogscast is naive and stupid at this stage.
On to the point about Yogscast demanding payment. The details on this are very unclear at the moment; and I've seen several people assume that the Yogscast turned up under the pretence of going for free and then later unfairly demanding payment. If this was the case, then of course both Simon and Lewis are at fault. However, do any of us actually know that's the case - have we heard the full story - or are a number of the more immature members of this forum just making assumptions so that they can throw hate in that general direction. My opinion on this particular dispute will be based on actually finding out what happened, so I'll hold off on it for now. What I will say is this - if Notch is implying (and of course we don't know this) that people who have had such an influence on the community do not deserve to be paid, then he is wrong. By all means, I think they should have turned up on condition they get paid in the first place. This is their livelihood, in case anyone has forgotten, and as several people (notably John Bain) have stated, you have no requirement to turn up free of charge to a major event and support a company when it is essentially your job. Any implication that in general getting paid for these kind of events is inherently wrong is stupid, and you'd do well to consider yourself in a situation where that is your job.
On the subject of the swearing; again, I think a lot of people need to read before spouting off. And I quote:
"A kid wanted them to sign something I had signed, and they said they'd cross it out and put "f*** you" there instead."
That's what Notch wrote, which a minority of people took to mean:
"The Yogscast took a kids autograph, crossed out Notch's name and wrote "f*** you" instead."
Which is clearly not the case. The ethics of this are convoluted, but in essence the Yogscast are demonstrating a distinctly British style of humour. To watch their videos expecting the attitudes and morals of people who live most likely thousands of miles away from you are going to be identical to your own is pretty egotistical. On top of that you have the fact that, as many have mentioned, Yogscast videos generally contain a large amount of foul language anyway. Their demographic hears it on Youtube regardless of your pittance that it's unacceptable, and to be quite honest, I'm pretty certain that those of you older than about 7 have sworn yourselves.
The Minecraft community in general isn't about "respecting and caring" either. It largely consists of narcissistic children who disregard those other than themselves and like to spout anger, abuse, troll and flame. It is also why any competent multiplayer builder either owns a private server or one where build allowance requires in-depth vetting. If Minecraft was about "respecting and caring" these measures would clearly not be necessary.
So in conclusion, we can establish that a) one viewpoint is not enough to condem one party in it's entirety, b ) the vast majority of this can be explained by two parties who are worn out and relative strangers, and c) a large proportion of the condemnation is coming from those who already disliked either Notch or the Yogscast and as such are just jumping on a bandwagon, or whom haven't actually read the details provided so far properly.
I'll wait for the full details to emerge before adding anything more, but the amount of narrow-minded antagonism in this thread is astounding.
I'm afraid that I have read a small bit of what you're trying to say, however all I get from this is that you took Total Biscuits assumptions and you made assumptions yourself. And I don't like assumptions, in fact, I like facts. You can guess what happened, but you can't say that what other people have said is true or false because you weren't there.
You see, the reason why I only read a little bit about Total Biscuit's information was because he based it off of what he knew, not about facts. Sure he's great friends with the Yogscast, and that's fine and all, but I can't trust him to tell me the facts because he wasn't there to know what went on.
I'm looking to the main groups here for information, and that would be the Yogscast and Notch. I could care less for the people that weren't there to explain it for me, but, you know, that's just me.
Sorry if that was not the point you were trying to make. (;
I'm afraid that I have read a small bit of what you're trying to say, however all I get from this is that you took Total Biscuits assumptions and you made assumptions yourself. And I don't like assumptions, in fact, I like facts. You can guess what happened, but you can't say that what other people have said is true or false because you weren't there.
You see, the reason why I only read a little bit about Total Biscuit's information was because he based it off of what he knew, not about facts. Sure he's great friends with the Yogscast, and that's fine and all, but I can't trust him to tell me the facts because he wasn't there to know what went on.
I'm looking to the main groups here for information, and that would be the Yogscast and Notch. I could care less for the people that weren't there to explain it for me, but, you know, that's just me.
Sorry if that was not the point you were trying to make. (;
Assumptions are the sum of what's possible at this stage, which is why I put emphasis on the fact that my opinion was based on what was known so far. The difference between the assumptions I made and a large proportion of those in this thread is that mine are actually based on the information out there so far, and not on what these people want to be true (either in favour of Notch or Yogscast).
And like I stressed, information provided by both parties will differ so a conclusion drawn from all the pooled information is likely to be the most reliable. We cannot draw a conclusion like that until the details in their entirety have been discovered, which, as I'll stress again, I have already stated.
Assumptions are the sum of what's possible at this stage, which is why I put emphasis on the fact that my opinion was based on what was known so far. The difference between the assumptions I made and a large proportion of those in this thread is that mine are actually based on the information out there so far, and not on what these people want to be true (either in favour of Notch or Yogscast).
Ahh, thank you. Now I feel like I can read your post without having to cringe in fear! Thanks! (:
'Cause well, you know, I don't want my thoughts to be corrupted as I read this lovely wall of text that would seem to be so convincing. Had to catch myself and evaluate it first.
Running a convention does take a lot out of you, and with only three days to recover from jetlag, and being thrust immediately into "ZOMG FANS", (not to mention "ZOMG VEGAS") I'm sure there was tons of pressure on Notch.
But when you get bled dry like that, tempers start to fray, and so does patience. I've seen a lot of convention organizers make rash judgements and snap decisions that turned out later to be over pointless trivial stuff, hearsay, or misunderstandings.
I've worked quite a few cons over the years, and I've seen this sort of tempest-in-a-teapot drama happen time and time again.
Notch has already apologized for what he posted, and I'm pretty sure that this whole mess is over at this point. Lessons learned all around, etc. Next time people on both sides will probably be more careful about the words they use in public.
Never heard of this "Yogscast" before, but I guess they couldn't have been that important as such. Minecraft is big because of 4chan, reddit and word of mouth, if "Yogscast" is related to those things, maybe MC is where it is because of them, otherwise when a bunch of kids say "We're the reason your game is popular", it's quite easy to hate them.
All I will say is that Yogcast no matter how you look at it was not the reason minecraft became popular, cool, or whatever word choice you would like to place. It became popular via not only the different videos on youtube between the various let's plays and tutorials but also through one friend finding it and passing it on to another friend and soon it was the hit we know now. Not one person or small group could claim to have made this game popular.
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Voyager I wrote:People are very fond of making real-world analogies without remembering that in the real world, cities are occupied at all times and someone can't tear your house down in 5 minutes with their bare hands.
I like the yogscast in all, but they're just acting stupid with there current videos, they can't even follow basic instructions, especially Lewis, they were good at first but now, i think notch is making true claims. But I still want to her the yogscasts side of the story first
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Steam name: Jack Shark of Wasting Mango (feel free to friend me!)
The Yogscast fans are terrable, yet the crew are nice. I enjoy their vidios. like zebragrrl said, things happend. jetlag changes people. this is a horrid thing to happen, but we should move on.
Having worked the convention scene from the setup side quite a few times, I know quite well how stressful those things are(Weddings are still worse). I would just as soon avoid them anymore after what I have experienced. With that in mind, I am inclined to believe that Notch, Simon, and Lewis were operating on a lot of strain and it can be expected that something will occur to cause ill feelings. It doesn't have to occur, but it shouldn't be surprising that it does. How either party acts after the dust has settled is where the real determination lies. Apparently Notch has apologized for his part, so I guess it remains to be seen how Simon and Lewis react. I appreciate the Yogscast and what they try to give us, so I hope this comes out to a fair ending.
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In the real world, you stick your head in the dirt to hide from problems.
In Minecraft, you stick your head in the dirt to find problems.
I think Notch's sense of humor couldn't see some of the exaggerated sarcasm that the Yogscast commonly employs, they just have that offensive-if-taken-the-wrong-way sense of humor. Like the claim that they should be paid, which was a complete joke. Notch may have taken the Yogscast's comments too seriously. Unfortunately, the beloved Yogscast may be becoming slightly egocentric, as most famous people and youtube celebrities do (or they don't know when to let back on the jokes).
Or Notch, of course, may be massively trolling us... He doesn't seem the type to get into a fit of rage anyway.
just wana say that I think its hilarious how cool people think they are when they hate on yogscast... seriously you're that jelous of their fame and hilarity or you're so cool to enjoy them you are no better than the people you criticize I love yogscast and they ARE the reason I started playing Minecraft also anyone who enjoys Yogscast isn't a fanboy and disliking everything the Yogscast does just makes you an antiboy so **** off and let them explain their story rather than saying they are a bunch of pricks.
just wana say that I think its hilarious how cool people think they are when they hate on yogscast... seriously you're that jelous of their fame and hilarity or you're so cool to enjoy them you are no better than the people you criticize I love yogscast and they ARE the reason I started playing Minecraft also anyone who enjoys Yogscast isn't a fanboy and disliking everything the Yogscast does just makes you an antiboy so **** off and let them explain their story rather than saying they are a bunch of pricks.
This is what people say about how much people hate Justin Bieber. This is wrong in every way as you should not rudely assume why people dislike the Yogscast as the haters of Yogscast should not rudely assume why people hate Notch. This in no way gives any help because both sides are doing exactly what you are saying. This is not 'Oh, the side I'm against is doing all of this rude stuff', it is happening on both ends, mind you.
Anyway, new update from the Yogscast:
"YOGSCAST The Yogscast Crew
we aren't stalling in any way, we merely want to draft a coherent response, instead of raging in a con-flu/jet lagged state - have patience!
32 minutes ago"
I don't think the Yogscast is what made Minecraft popular. If I take my experience. SeaNanners is who showed me Minecraft. If I wouldn't have seen SeaNanners let's play, I would never had typed *Minecraft* in the Youtube searchbox and I would had never found the Yogscast. But that's all myself.
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Why not wait for Yogscast to reply, then decide who you want to trust?
"MineCon (also referred to as MineCraftCon) is a Minecraft Convention held by Mojang AB"
Methinks it'll fade away reasonably quickly.
I'm afraid that I have read a small bit of what you're trying to say, however all I get from this is that you took Total Biscuits assumptions and you made assumptions yourself. And I don't like assumptions, in fact, I like facts. You can guess what happened, but you can't say that what other people have said is true or false because you weren't there.
You see, the reason why I only read a little bit about Total Biscuit's information was because he based it off of what he knew, not about facts. Sure he's great friends with the Yogscast, and that's fine and all, but I can't trust him to tell me the facts because he wasn't there to know what went on.
I'm looking to the main groups here for information, and that would be the Yogscast and Notch. I could care less for the people that weren't there to explain it for me, but, you know, that's just me.
Sorry if that was not the point you were trying to make. (;
Assumptions are the sum of what's possible at this stage, which is why I put emphasis on the fact that my opinion was based on what was known so far. The difference between the assumptions I made and a large proportion of those in this thread is that mine are actually based on the information out there so far, and not on what these people want to be true (either in favour of Notch or Yogscast).
And like I stressed, information provided by both parties will differ so a conclusion drawn from all the pooled information is likely to be the most reliable. We cannot draw a conclusion like that until the details in their entirety have been discovered, which, as I'll stress again, I have already stated.
Ahh, thank you. Now I feel like I can read your post without having to cringe in fear! Thanks! (:
'Cause well, you know, I don't want my thoughts to be corrupted as I read this lovely wall of text that would seem to be so convincing. Had to catch myself and evaluate it first.
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Curse PremiumBut when you get bled dry like that, tempers start to fray, and so does patience. I've seen a lot of convention organizers make rash judgements and snap decisions that turned out later to be over pointless trivial stuff, hearsay, or misunderstandings.
I've worked quite a few cons over the years, and I've seen this sort of tempest-in-a-teapot drama happen time and time again.
Notch has already apologized for what he posted, and I'm pretty sure that this whole mess is over at this point. Lessons learned all around, etc. Next time people on both sides will probably be more careful about the words they use in public.
Steam name: Jack Shark of Wasting Mango (feel free to friend me!)
In Minecraft, you stick your head in the dirt to find problems.
Or Notch, of course, may be massively trolling us... He doesn't seem the type to get into a fit of rage anyway.
Can't wait to see what the Yogscast has to say.
Even athene says something :biggrin.gif: makes sense.
'cause a [SSSS] [Skeleton] [Spider] [Zombie] [Notch] party don't stop.
This is what people say about how much people hate Justin Bieber. This is wrong in every way as you should not rudely assume why people dislike the Yogscast as the haters of Yogscast should not rudely assume why people hate Notch. This in no way gives any help because both sides are doing exactly what you are saying. This is not 'Oh, the side I'm against is doing all of this rude stuff', it is happening on both ends, mind you.
Anyway, new update from the Yogscast:
"YOGSCAST The Yogscast Crew
we aren't stalling in any way, we merely want to draft a coherent response, instead of raging in a con-flu/jet lagged state - have patience!
32 minutes ago"
END THE HATE!