The statement the Yogscast came out with is what you call a nice piece of politics. They are pulling the "Ooh poor pitiful me" with some "I have no idea what your talking about" along with a little "It was all for the community". This is all just classic sweat talk people have been using for ages. I don't see what is so hard to see about that.
From what I have seen of the Yogscast, they could very easily do all of what they are accused of. In one of there videos they were at some battleship and they crossed over the barriers and almost went and sat on one of the bomb displays. (Forgive me, I could not find the video but anyone who follows the Yogscast knows EXACTLY what i'm talking about.) That is a perfect example of the immaturity they are capable of and why the accusations are not very far-fetched.
I would like to add next that the main point of the Yogcast's presentation seemed to be how terrible minecraft is and how much better the mods in there YogBox made minecraft. Even if that was not there intention, that is how it came across. And that would make any developer furious.
In the end though the only solid evidence we have is the Yogscast's past behavior which would fit every accusation attributed to them. But we must also take into account that it would make no sense for Notch to blatantly lie over something that could turn out so aggressive. No one would. Nor should we forget that it is a common courtesy that at public events, if your a looked up to figure, and there are young ones about; you hold your freaking tongue when giving a speech and speak like a respectable person instead of a dirty-mouthed sailor.
In the end the only logical explanation available, given what we know, is that the Yogscast played the part of the spoiled famous people and let some stuff slip when interacting with other minecraft fans which, in reaction, Notch got mad about and over reacted on twitter. What needs to happen is for the Yogscast to stop playing Captain Innocent and be the first to apologize. Just like when Daddy breaks up the fight at home, it is only right for whoever caused the fight to be the first to say i'm sorry.
what everyone needs to realize, and what notch likely forgot when he was posting his initial tweets, is that the yogscast are first and foremost comedians. whether you find their antics funny or not is pretty much irrelevant. i just finished watching their panel and there's nothing all that offensive about it. they did say some smart-ass things about the vanilla game, but they've been saying smart-ass things about everything they've ever done a video on (including minecraft) since they first started posting world of warcraft videos. if notch thought they were going to fly out there, stroke his ego for 30 minutes and go home, well, i have to assume then that notch has never actually watched a yogscast video and just invited them because of their promotional value. it's the same sarcastic shtick they've always done.
and most of all, they chose to highlight one of the things that make minecraft as great as it is - the endless creative possibilities. all of 3 minutes was spent actually promoting the yogbox, which in typical self-deprecating yogscast fashion, they openly admitted was just a compilation of the immense talent of other people, which was made possible by minecraft. they probably should have gone out of their way to give props to mojang at least once during the panel, but they were hardly as terrible as notch's tweets made it sound. more a social faux paus than anything, and it really should have been taken care of between notch and the yogscast privately from the start.
To all of you saying Notch was immature.. It was his TWITTER. Not like he bantered all over the front page of his website about it. It's twitter... You know, thoughts... not a company site?
Ummm, he's the owner of a multimillion euro company and a multimillionaire himself. He has hundreds of thousands of followers on twitter because he releases news about his game and company on his twitter. He also made a direct comments about the behavior of the Yogscast on his twitter, which resulted in the loss of hundreds of thousands of subscribers from the Yogscast channel and a DDOS attack on their website which continues today.
Now, maybe in high school, the childish behavior of Notch on twitter would be okay, but here in the world of adults when a multimillionaire makes defamatory comments without proof that directly harm the livelihood of other people they are responsible for their actions.
Kids should stay away from these issues and wank themselves in a circle somewhere in narnia. Only about 10% of the people here have proven to be educated people capable of valid and logical arguments and they appear on both sides. Unfortunately aside from the issue people have to deal with ddos gaymachines 'hacker'wannabe shits from gay purgatory.
To all of you saying Notch was immature.. It was his TWITTER. Not like he bantered all over the front page of his website about it. It's twitter... You know, thoughts... not a company site?
Sure, notch's twitter is SOMEWHERE on the front page, but it's out of the way. (Though you do have me there) He did NOT make a post about it on his websites. Notch is also human, he's allowed, amirite? And he ONLY posted it on his Twitter.. Reddit is.. eh, that's debatable. Leaving that for another day.
Before you go "Yogscast are human too, they're allowed!" ... What reason did they have to be jerks? I mean.. none, really. Unless there's something none of us really know about, I don't see a reason for them to act how they acted. It was rather subtle, but you can see a lot of poking in some videos.
I also wouldn't put it past Yogscast either about being stuck up internet celebs. I've seen it more than once, for sure... People who do LP's and other things, get famous for them on the INTERNET, then act like they're better than everyone else... even if they act nice to your face. Also decided to look over the panel about Yogscast and crap.. Yeah, they were definitely poking at Notch's game a bit too much, and trying to promote their mods a lot... I would've gotten annoyed too. Developing games can be seen as an art.. imagine if someone looked at your painting and decided that it was crap without their own flair. They redrew a bunch of things and recolored half of it... That's like spitting on his "art." I would be kind of pissed myself. "LOL GAIZ THIS GAME IS SH^T WITHOUT MODS LOLOL"
I like to play minecraft without mods.. Aside from zombe, because I'm a server admin. (Mods are nice every once in a while!)
No, I do not hate Yogscast.
No, I am not a Notch fangirl... I even think he's a lazy ******* when it comes to developing Minecraft. Jeb FTW!
Yes, I have a brain...
I've been staying quiet, but now that I've heard both sides, here's what I think (because everyone cares and nobody seems to have an opinion)
First of all-I'm assuming Notch and the Yogscast both believe they're telling the truth--Notch has always given lots of details on his blog, and the Yogscast seems also quite reliable.
Also, remember: Notch posted his statement short le after the Into the Nether party, making and he even said he was tired. So anything he heard could have been grossly misinterpreted.
The Yogscast waited for their jet lag (and Simon's con-flu) to go away before making an official statement. Theirs is more likely to be true. For one thing it does admit some things and gives reasons. It is also more likely to include less misinterpretations because of their state compared to Notch's at the time.
Therefore, I have to side with the Yogscast. Notch may have been out of it, and I still am not going to hate him for it. It's twitter, and I think part of the cool thing about him is how he will say almost everything on his blog or twitter. This is one of the ugly byproducts of it, but in general, it has made the community more vibrant, and feel a lot closer to the creator of the game.
So don't blame Notch too much--part of what I think the beauty of the game is, is itself a result of his openness.
I think the big issue here is that Tim and Lewis needs notch and minecraft but notch does not need Yogscast and Tim with Lewis. So the issue with the fans is that if you like notch and minecraft then great. You'll have a wonderful life. But if you like Yogscast and what Simon and Lewis does in minecraft, well then you also better like notch because he made that game.
Notch is the face of his company, the one man against the world winning, his twitter is his company's feed like it or not.
Yogscast have always had a bit of an ego but the issue is that there isn't proof, you are being a Notch fanboy because you are automatically overlooking the prime requirement for accusations to be upheld.
Because having an open mind as to "this may be possible" is being a Notch fangirl.
I think I know why notch got so pissed off at yogscast. It's because they showed off a lot of mods in their presentation and notch notoriously hates mods because he feels like they undermine his work. This is what I think anyway.
I think I know why notch got so pissed off at yogscast. It's because they showed off a lot of mods in their presentation and notch notoriously hates mods because he feels like they undermine his work. This is what I think anyway.
If i remember...notch doesnt hate mods...he encourages people making them? so that wouldnt be the reason.
I think the big issue here is that Tim and Lewis needs notch and minecraft but notch does not need Yogscast and Tim with Lewis. So the issue with the fans is that if you like notch and minecraft then great. You'll have a wonderful life. But if you like Yogscast and what Simon and Lewis does in minecraft, well then you also better like notch because he made that game.
:laugh.gif: why? what does this have to do with anything? like shitty people can't create anything good? have you listened to rock music lately? or beethoven for that matter?
not that notch is a shitty person, i have no clue, don't know the guy, doubt anyone here does. but also how do simon and lewis need notch and minecraft? they were around before that, pretty sure they were part of the game station and had done material with totalbiscuit among others. there's a gaming community outside minecraft you know.
anyway all that is irrelevant regarding who's in the right and who's in the wrong here.
I think I know why notch got so pissed off at yogscast. It's because they showed off a lot of mods in their presentation and notch notoriously hates mods because he feels like they undermine his work. This is what I think anyway.
Actually, that's false. Somebody from Mojang even mentioned work on a mod API
Notch may have been tired and possibly under the influence of alcohol when he made those tweets. That however does not automatically determine that Notch was making false accusations. Now then, the Yogscast taking such a long time in my opinion is that they were just bying time to get together and make a statement that seemed to put their intelligence higher than Notches. By taking this time and making such a professional looking statement they would then appear to be the mature ones. It's not that hard to think of a way to make yourself seem more educated and mature then someone else. So in my opinion. They were just bying time to figure a way out and save their asses from losing money.
I dont care since I dont know who or what Yogscast is, but the "fans" - on either side - need to stop being childish and just let things go. It has nothing to do with us.
Doubt notch lied, what would that get him? Nothing. He most likely was told some things, it bugged him and he foolishly turned around and ranted on twitter before going to them. Which I am sure by now he fully regrets that decision.
I also wouldn't put it past Yogscast either about being stuck up internet celebs. I've seen it more than once, for sure... People who do LP's and other things, get famous for them on the INTERNET, then act like they're better than everyone else... even if they act nice to your face. Also decided to look over the panel about Yogscast and crap.. Yeah, they were definitely poking at Notch's game a bit too much, and trying to promote their mods a lot... I would've gotten annoyed too. Developing games can be seen as an art.. imagine if someone looked at your painting and decided that it was crap without their own flair. They redrew a bunch of things and recolored half of it... That's like spitting on his "art." I would be kind of pissed myself. "LOL GAIZ THIS GAME IS SH^T WITHOUT MODS LOLOL"
I like to play minecraft without mods.. Aside from zombe, because I'm a server admin. (Mods are nice every once in a while!)
None of these are a good basis for such libelous slanders as the 'F-you bomb'. They didn't say they should be thanked, they said the community should be. Now this wasn't even something to hear second hand, unless they weren't even there for the panel in question. Which given the ridiculous scheduling of MineCon (Granted their first, but scheduling several panels in such a small span, and giving conflicting things like the whole signing problem, wherein there were two lines, one for signing, and one for the Yogscast panel, so people thought they had to choose) is entirely a possibility. But you'd still think they'd wait for confirmation, a video, before even making a judgement call, let alone calling them out on a Twitter that's been used to announce new game versions and coming features.
A lot of people subscribed to Notch's Twitter not because it was his, but because it was the main source for Minecraft news. It still is, really. As I've said before, Notch has made himself the face of Minecraft and Mojang, by putting his Twitter and blog posts on the frontpage.
I'm not gonna imply anyone doesn't have a brain. This is all my two cents. But considering Notch made the first attack, and his idea of an apology is 'Well okay. (But I mean that in a good way!)' and 'I'm sorry for making this public' instead of, possibly, 'I'm sorry for jumping to a conclusion and will review the evidence further before judging you or anyone else in the future', it's really hurt my image of him. As I said before, he needs to apologize, back off, and not make himself the face of Mojang or Minecraft.
Sure, notch's twitter is SOMEWHERE on the front page, but it's out of the way. (Though you do have me there) He did NOT make a post about it on his websites. Notch is also human, he's allowed, amirite? And he ONLY posted it on his Twitter.. Reddit is.. eh, that's debatable. Leaving that for another day.
As of right now, Notch has 498,553 followers on Twitter. As is obvious from the furor that has arisen from his tweet, this is sufficient to be damaging without also making a post on the website and blog. Since those tweets they have also appeared on numerous blogs and have appeared in news sites like PC Gamer to be seen by numerous other people. Since the tweets the Yogscast have lost hundreds of thousands of subscribers and are currently being subjected to a DDOS attack. The damage of Notch's statements is beyond question, regardless of where he put them.
Before you go "Yogscast are human too, they're allowed!" ... What reason did they have to be jerks? I mean.. none, really. Unless there's something none of us really know about, I don't see a reason for them to act how they acted. It was rather subtle, but you can see a lot of poking in some videos.
Do you have any evidence that the Yogscast were jerks other than Notch's tweets and your opinion on their subtle behavior in some videos? It's up to the accuser to provide proof and so far Notch has provided none? In fact, Notch is now saying it was a misunderstanding, how does that match up with the Yogscast's guilt in your mind?
I also wouldn't put it past Yogscast either about being stuck up internet celebs. I've seen it more than once, for sure... People who do LP's and other things, get famous for them on the INTERNET, then act like they're better than everyone else... even if they act nice to your face. Also decided to look over the panel about Yogscast and crap.. Yeah, they were definitely poking at Notch's game a bit too much, and trying to promote their mods a lot... I would've gotten annoyed too. Developing games can be seen as an art.. imagine if someone looked at your painting and decided that it was crap without their own flair. They redrew a bunch of things and recolored half of it... That's like spitting on his "art." I would be kind of pissed myself. "LOL GAIZ THIS GAME IS SH^T WITHOUT MODS LOLOL"
So your opinion is that Notch can't take criticism or jokes and so that justifies his unproven tweets? Again, you aren't proving anything but are building an argument on speculation and prejudice without facts.
edit: I meant this in a positive way.
what everyone needs to realize, and what notch likely forgot when he was posting his initial tweets, is that the yogscast are first and foremost comedians. whether you find their antics funny or not is pretty much irrelevant. i just finished watching their panel and there's nothing all that offensive about it. they did say some smart-ass things about the vanilla game, but they've been saying smart-ass things about everything they've ever done a video on (including minecraft) since they first started posting world of warcraft videos. if notch thought they were going to fly out there, stroke his ego for 30 minutes and go home, well, i have to assume then that notch has never actually watched a yogscast video and just invited them because of their promotional value. it's the same sarcastic shtick they've always done.
and most of all, they chose to highlight one of the things that make minecraft as great as it is - the endless creative possibilities. all of 3 minutes was spent actually promoting the yogbox, which in typical self-deprecating yogscast fashion, they openly admitted was just a compilation of the immense talent of other people, which was made possible by minecraft. they probably should have gone out of their way to give props to mojang at least once during the panel, but they were hardly as terrible as notch's tweets made it sound. more a social faux paus than anything, and it really should have been taken care of between notch and the yogscast privately from the start.
-rep for Notch
Ummm, he's the owner of a multimillion euro company and a multimillionaire himself. He has hundreds of thousands of followers on twitter because he releases news about his game and company on his twitter. He also made a direct comments about the behavior of the Yogscast on his twitter, which resulted in the loss of hundreds of thousands of subscribers from the Yogscast channel and a DDOS attack on their website which continues today.
Now, maybe in high school, the childish behavior of Notch on twitter would be okay, but here in the world of adults when a multimillionaire makes defamatory comments without proof that directly harm the livelihood of other people they are responsible for their actions.
Seriosuly????
Before you go "Yogscast are human too, they're allowed!" ... What reason did they have to be jerks? I mean.. none, really. Unless there's something none of us really know about, I don't see a reason for them to act how they acted. It was rather subtle, but you can see a lot of poking in some videos.
I also wouldn't put it past Yogscast either about being stuck up internet celebs. I've seen it more than once, for sure... People who do LP's and other things, get famous for them on the INTERNET, then act like they're better than everyone else... even if they act nice to your face. Also decided to look over the panel about Yogscast and crap.. Yeah, they were definitely poking at Notch's game a bit too much, and trying to promote their mods a lot... I would've gotten annoyed too. Developing games can be seen as an art.. imagine if someone looked at your painting and decided that it was crap without their own flair. They redrew a bunch of things and recolored half of it... That's like spitting on his "art." I would be kind of pissed myself. "LOL GAIZ THIS GAME IS SH^T WITHOUT MODS LOLOL"
I like to play minecraft without mods.. Aside from zombe, because I'm a server admin. (Mods are nice every once in a while!)
No, I do not hate Yogscast.
No, I am not a Notch fangirl... I even think he's a lazy ******* when it comes to developing Minecraft. Jeb FTW!
Yes, I have a brain...
First of all-I'm assuming Notch and the Yogscast both believe they're telling the truth--Notch has always given lots of details on his blog, and the Yogscast seems also quite reliable.
Also, remember: Notch posted his statement short le after the Into the Nether party, making and he even said he was tired. So anything he heard could have been grossly misinterpreted.
The Yogscast waited for their jet lag (and Simon's con-flu) to go away before making an official statement. Theirs is more likely to be true. For one thing it does admit some things and gives reasons. It is also more likely to include less misinterpretations because of their state compared to Notch's at the time.
Therefore, I have to side with the Yogscast. Notch may have been out of it, and I still am not going to hate him for it. It's twitter, and I think part of the cool thing about him is how he will say almost everything on his blog or twitter. This is one of the ugly byproducts of it, but in general, it has made the community more vibrant, and feel a lot closer to the creator of the game.
So don't blame Notch too much--part of what I think the beauty of the game is, is itself a result of his openness.
My mini-CTM map! It's a fun map, so play it!
Endorsement:
One Sided Windows: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27244
Compasses & Grand Magnets: http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24619
Because having an open mind as to "this may be possible" is being a Notch fangirl.
BRILLIANT logic my dear sir.
Click my sig.
If i remember...notch doesnt hate mods...he encourages people making them? so that wouldnt be the reason.
:laugh.gif: why? what does this have to do with anything? like shitty people can't create anything good? have you listened to rock music lately? or beethoven for that matter?
not that notch is a shitty person, i have no clue, don't know the guy, doubt anyone here does. but also how do simon and lewis need notch and minecraft? they were around before that, pretty sure they were part of the game station and had done material with totalbiscuit among others. there's a gaming community outside minecraft you know.
anyway all that is irrelevant regarding who's in the right and who's in the wrong here.
Actually, that's false. Somebody from Mojang even mentioned work on a mod API
My mini-CTM map! It's a fun map, so play it!
Doubt notch lied, what would that get him? Nothing. He most likely was told some things, it bugged him and he foolishly turned around and ranted on twitter before going to them. Which I am sure by now he fully regrets that decision.
None of these are a good basis for such libelous slanders as the 'F-you bomb'. They didn't say they should be thanked, they said the community should be. Now this wasn't even something to hear second hand, unless they weren't even there for the panel in question. Which given the ridiculous scheduling of MineCon (Granted their first, but scheduling several panels in such a small span, and giving conflicting things like the whole signing problem, wherein there were two lines, one for signing, and one for the Yogscast panel, so people thought they had to choose) is entirely a possibility. But you'd still think they'd wait for confirmation, a video, before even making a judgement call, let alone calling them out on a Twitter that's been used to announce new game versions and coming features.
A lot of people subscribed to Notch's Twitter not because it was his, but because it was the main source for Minecraft news. It still is, really. As I've said before, Notch has made himself the face of Minecraft and Mojang, by putting his Twitter and blog posts on the frontpage.
I'm not gonna imply anyone doesn't have a brain. This is all my two cents. But considering Notch made the first attack, and his idea of an apology is 'Well okay. (But I mean that in a good way!)' and 'I'm sorry for making this public' instead of, possibly, 'I'm sorry for jumping to a conclusion and will review the evidence further before judging you or anyone else in the future', it's really hurt my image of him. As I said before, he needs to apologize, back off, and not make himself the face of Mojang or Minecraft.
he posted stuff they did, and they posted stuff they didn't.
it isn't just MISUNDERSTANDING if Notch specifically
said a few events of their bad behavior.
then they introduced events that make these bad behavior
sound like Notch's lies.
I just don't get it. Its not a misunderstanding.
(maybe the crew were rude and not Lewis&Simon?)
Hmm, i should've been there to see the whole convention
because I can read people's behavior quite well.
As of right now, Notch has 498,553 followers on Twitter. As is obvious from the furor that has arisen from his tweet, this is sufficient to be damaging without also making a post on the website and blog. Since those tweets they have also appeared on numerous blogs and have appeared in news sites like PC Gamer to be seen by numerous other people. Since the tweets the Yogscast have lost hundreds of thousands of subscribers and are currently being subjected to a DDOS attack. The damage of Notch's statements is beyond question, regardless of where he put them.
Do you have any evidence that the Yogscast were jerks other than Notch's tweets and your opinion on their subtle behavior in some videos? It's up to the accuser to provide proof and so far Notch has provided none? In fact, Notch is now saying it was a misunderstanding, how does that match up with the Yogscast's guilt in your mind?
So your opinion is that Notch can't take criticism or jokes and so that justifies his unproven tweets? Again, you aren't proving anything but are building an argument on speculation and prejudice without facts.
So you disagree with the Yogscast about mods and that proves that they were crossing out autographs? How exactly?
[sarcasm]I can't imagine how anyone would believe you didn't like the Yogscast...[/sarcasm]
If your arguments are strong you don't need to declare that you are not on a team. Your irrational arguments however fall short of a strong case.
I would encourage you to use it while constructing your arguments then.