Those too, but that would mean someone, somewhere made a purchase and a code was given as part of a promotion right?
I'd love to see him maintain that his computer spontaneously loaded minecraft one day and the only way he found out about it was his start menu highlighted "NEW PROGRAMS" hahahaha
I love the fixes and the new power rails but I'm not a fan of losing boat elevators. I used that exclusively to get to my mines, but it's not just that, the water at the bottom that I used to save me from falls won't stop me any more I'll die easily from the fall.
Actually, you know what? Just forget it. If you won't even take the time to read what I say before issuing a standard knee-jerk response, I'm not obliged to waste *my* time replying to you further.
Yeah, it's not worth it. Posting in this thread just gets you flamed by idiots and apologists who couldn't construct a logical argument to save their life. Just ignore the logical fallacies and reductive arguments, quit while you're ahead and let them think they've "won."
Uh - no - you could also raise the sky one block and not screw with people's existing creations. Doesn't make sense at all.
That's exactly what I was thinking. They didn't necessarily have to do that just take any existing map delete the bottom layer and move everything down one. People rarely dig that deep.
So, ummm.. this patch is rather useless, and I feel dumb for updating. Can someone awesome give me an idea where to get 1.5? Should I look on pirate bay or something?
Also, re: Apologists.
I'm surprised nobody (that I've seen) has pointed this out, but this is not a piece of beta software. Calling it a beta does not make it one.
We paid money for it (at least, some of us did) and therefore we have the right to a working piece of software. You can, of course, say "Mojang has the right to release useless garbage even if you paid for it, buyer beware" but then we have the right to point out that their garbage is, in fact, useless.
I am not actually saying Minecraft sucks. It's awesome. But this patch is dumb, needs fixing badly, and we have the right, the privilege, and the honor to say so.
So, ummm.. this patch is rather useless, and I feel dumb for updating. Can someone awesome give me an idea where to get 1.5? Should I look on pirate bay or something?
Also, re: Apologists.
I'm surprised nobody (that I've seen) has pointed this out, but this is not a piece of beta software. Calling it a beta does not make it one.
We paid money for it (at least, some of us did) and therefore we have the right to a working piece of software. You can, of course, say "Mojang has the right to release useless garbage even if you paid for it, buyer beware" but then we have the right to point out that their garbage is, in fact, useless.
I am not actually saying Minecraft sucks. It's awesome. But this patch is dumb, needs fixing badly, and we have the right, the privilege, and the honor to say so.
Calling it Beta doesnt make it Beta, you're right. But the fact that it is Beta means you should call it BETA!! It's not finished yet. That's why you didnt pay full price for it. As I understand it, the price you paid for it gets you the full game for free when it is officially released. Therefore complaining that you paid for something that should work is not valid.
And you dont have the "right" "priveledge" or "honor" to say something doesn't work. As a beta tester, you have the DUTY to report bugs. The priveledge is being able to play the game before the rest of the world does at a lower price than they will pay for it.
Calling it Beta doesnt make it Beta, you're right. But the fact that it is Beta means you should call it BETA!! It's not finished yet.
Beta testing does not involve money. The idea is you're provided a incomplete piece of software, free of charge, and allowed to play it in exchange for providing feedback and helping to complete it, so the company can then release the completed software and charge for it.
Calling Minecraft a beta while charging over a million people $10-20 USD for it is a lie, we know it's a lie, and we're happy to both play it and pay for it, knowing it's a lie.
But you will not stand there and pretend we don't have the right to complain. We do.
I love the fixes and the new power rails but I'm not a fan of losing boat elevators. I used that exclusively to get to my mines, but it's not just that, the water at the bottom that I used to save me from falls won't stop me any more I'll die easily from the fall.
Your post gave me an idea I hadn't thought of before, unless jumping into deep water now kills you that is.
I can put a deepish pool at the bottom of a deep mine in order to get to it quickly. Still need to get back up via ladder or steps but at least going in could be quicker. Its a shame some of the better features tend to get edited out like the water elevator and booster cart system. Like many others I can see no valid reason why we can't have both systems in Minecraft.
I'm also wondering why they've included tool repairing icons in the GUI folder when there has been no mention of it being done or even being planned for future updates, and why put them in before you've introduced it as a feature? It won't take long for the community to find these extra .png files and have them start expecting it to come sooner rather than later.
And you dont have the "right" "priveledge" or "honor" to say something doesn't work. As a beta tester, you have the DUTY to report bugs. The priveledge is being able to play the game before the rest of the world does at a lower price than they will pay for it.
When I pay Money for something I have every "Right" to say it doesn't work. When I pay Money for something it is not my DUTY to report bugs. It is the DUTY of the software programmer to correct bugs that have shown up.
In the Real world of Beta Testing we would be provided a free copy of Beta Minecraft and then it would be our DUTY to report bugs and issues. Doing it the way Notch does it now is like the old saying "Having your cake and eating it".
This release is unplayable for me to a number of bugs, performance is horrible in game, even though the game *does* use less CPU.For everyone who wonders, the old version is saved on your system. Within your file tree for minecraft, you will find the old minecraft-1.5_01.jar which you simply need to rename to minecraft.jar (after making a backup copy of everything) to revert to 1.5_01. I'm back to having my fans roar and the cpu usage way higher, but there are no more pauses in game and I've not lost any more diamond items.
Might I remind all of the people who are whining about bugs in the game, you agreed to these terms when you purchased the game: http://www.minecraft.net/copyright.jsp
Specifically, read this excerpt:
What You Get For Purchasing
When you purchase Minecraft you do so as is, be it in the early stages of development or already fully released. Subsequent updates are only an added bonus and not a guarantee, as icing on a cake. Purchases during the development of the game are discounted and include the full game upon release.
As we at Mojang strive towards releasing updates for our projects we cannot guarantee that any project will ever be completed and/or provided support for. There's always the risk of a project being discontinued at any time.
I'm not saying that it is good to leave any bugs in the game or to not remedy these issues quickly, but these are the terms of your license to use the game. Stop whining, it is not a finished game.
Addendum: Just because you don't typically pay for a beta, doesn't mean that ALL betas mean free. I actually prefer the discounted purchase, play through beta, idea. The business model he seems to be subscribing to is as follows:
The product isn't finished, but I plan on finishing it in the near future. If you buy the game now pre-release, you will not only get a discount, but you get to play and beta test while the game is being finished.
Would any of you be whining if Valve(R) had done the same with Portal 2TM? Many people purchased the game before it was released. Don't you think it would have been awesome to be able to play (aka test) the game before it was officially released? Think about Minecraft in this way. You bought the game early at a discount. As a perk of buying early, you get to test the game too!
Uh - no - you could also raise the sky one block and not screw with people's existing creations. Doesn't make sense at all.
That's exactly what I was thinking. They didn't necessarily have to do that just take any existing map delete the bottom layer and move everything down one. People rarely dig that deep.
Unless the bottom of your map is at your variables MIN value and the top or your map is at your variables MAX value. If that is the case it becomes next to impossible to add anything to the top or bottom because there is no more room in your variable to store the +1 block height.
As normal maps have about 0% of their mass at the TOP of the map it only makes sense to move the sky down one rather then mess with recalculating the billions of blocks that are at the bottom of some ones map.
Beta testing does not involve money. The idea is you're provided a incomplete piece of software, free of charge, and allowed to play it in exchange for providing feedback and helping to complete it, so the company can then release the completed software and charge for it.
Calling Minecraft a beta while charging over a million people $10-20 USD for it is a lie, we know it's a lie, and we're happy to both play it and pay for it, knowing it's a lie.
But you will not stand there and pretend we don't have the right to complain. We do.
Who says Beta testing doesn't involve money? Where is the "Computer Law Book of Game Beta Testing" that sets forth the rule that nobody can charge people to Beta test?
I'll answer it for you. It doesn't exist. "Beta testing" has always been a term with a different meaning for every software that has used it. What does matter are the terms that you agree to at the point of purchase.
Just because somebody does something one way, it doesn't mean anybody else has to do it that way. Especially when referring to a term that has no real definition or even standard practice already.
Would any of you be whining if Valve(R) had done the same with Portal 2TM? Many people purchased the game before it was released. Don't you think it would have been awesome to be able to play (aka test) the game before it was officially released? Think about Minecraft in this way. You bought the game early at a discount. As a perk of buying early, you get to test the game too!
Would I get mad if Valve released an incomplete Portal for money? No. I'd be disappointed, maybe, but I'd play it.
Would I get mad if there were sycophantic cretins in the Valve forums telling me that I'm not allowed to complain about or make suggestions as to the direction and progress of "development" because I am Valve's plaything and should be grateful for the opportunity to be exploited and both pay for and test their broken software?
Probably.
Pointing at the ToS and saying "Right here in section 19, paragraph 7, it says: We are allowed to be incompetent morons at any time." does not mean you are not an incompetent moron.
By all means, the moment you start charging money you start carrying responsibility. Not a tag in the world changes that.
Right here guys. If you want to change the meaning of "beta testing" to include the sale of incomplete software, go right ahead, nobody is stopping you.
But the iron rule of consumerism for hundreds of years has been that if you charge money for a product or service, you are responsible for it. In the same way that you can't sue a passing doctor who treats you in an emergency for free, you can't accuse a company with a free product of incompetence or fraud.
If the product isn't free... if you, as we have, paid for it, it's open season.
I am not, of course, suggesting suing Mojang over a crappy patch. I am telling you you're insane if you think we can't or shouldn't complain or voice an (negative) opinion over a change we don't like.
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Those too, but that would mean someone, somewhere made a purchase and a code was given as part of a promotion right?
I'd love to see him maintain that his computer spontaneously loaded minecraft one day and the only way he found out about it was his start menu highlighted "NEW PROGRAMS" hahahaha
Yeah, it's not worth it. Posting in this thread just gets you flamed by idiots and apologists who couldn't construct a logical argument to save their life. Just ignore the logical fallacies and reductive arguments, quit while you're ahead and let them think they've "won."
Also, re: Apologists.
I'm surprised nobody (that I've seen) has pointed this out, but this is not a piece of beta software. Calling it a beta does not make it one.
We paid money for it (at least, some of us did) and therefore we have the right to a working piece of software. You can, of course, say "Mojang has the right to release useless garbage even if you paid for it, buyer beware" but then we have the right to point out that their garbage is, in fact, useless.
I am not actually saying Minecraft sucks. It's awesome. But this patch is dumb, needs fixing badly, and we have the right, the privilege, and the honor to say so.
Calling it Beta doesnt make it Beta, you're right. But the fact that it is Beta means you should call it BETA!! It's not finished yet. That's why you didnt pay full price for it. As I understand it, the price you paid for it gets you the full game for free when it is officially released. Therefore complaining that you paid for something that should work is not valid.
And you dont have the "right" "priveledge" or "honor" to say something doesn't work. As a beta tester, you have the DUTY to report bugs. The priveledge is being able to play the game before the rest of the world does at a lower price than they will pay for it.
Beta testing does not involve money. The idea is you're provided a incomplete piece of software, free of charge, and allowed to play it in exchange for providing feedback and helping to complete it, so the company can then release the completed software and charge for it.
Calling Minecraft a beta while charging over a million people $10-20 USD for it is a lie, we know it's a lie, and we're happy to both play it and pay for it, knowing it's a lie.
But you will not stand there and pretend we don't have the right to complain. We do.
Your post gave me an idea I hadn't thought of before, unless jumping into deep water now kills you that is.
I can put a deepish pool at the bottom of a deep mine in order to get to it quickly. Still need to get back up via ladder or steps but at least going in could be quicker. Its a shame some of the better features tend to get edited out like the water elevator and booster cart system. Like many others I can see no valid reason why we can't have both systems in Minecraft.
I'm also wondering why they've included tool repairing icons in the GUI folder when there has been no mention of it being done or even being planned for future updates, and why put them in before you've introduced it as a feature? It won't take long for the community to find these extra .png files and have them start expecting it to come sooner rather than later.
Anyone got any clues?
When I pay Money for something I have every "Right" to say it doesn't work. When I pay Money for something it is not my DUTY to report bugs. It is the DUTY of the software programmer to correct bugs that have shown up.
In the Real world of Beta Testing we would be provided a free copy of Beta Minecraft and then it would be our DUTY to report bugs and issues. Doing it the way Notch does it now is like the old saying "Having your cake and eating it".
Specifically, read this excerpt:
I'm not saying that it is good to leave any bugs in the game or to not remedy these issues quickly, but these are the terms of your license to use the game. Stop whining, it is not a finished game.
Addendum: Just because you don't typically pay for a beta, doesn't mean that ALL betas mean free. I actually prefer the discounted purchase, play through beta, idea. The business model he seems to be subscribing to is as follows:
Would any of you be whining if Valve(R) had done the same with Portal 2TM? Many people purchased the game before it was released. Don't you think it would have been awesome to be able to play (aka test) the game before it was officially released? Think about Minecraft in this way. You bought the game early at a discount. As a perk of buying early, you get to test the game too!
Maybe not a bug?
Unless the bottom of your map is at your variables MIN value and the top or your map is at your variables MAX value. If that is the case it becomes next to impossible to add anything to the top or bottom because there is no more room in your variable to store the +1 block height.
As normal maps have about 0% of their mass at the TOP of the map it only makes sense to move the sky down one rather then mess with recalculating the billions of blocks that are at the bottom of some ones map.
Who says Beta testing doesn't involve money? Where is the "Computer Law Book of Game Beta Testing" that sets forth the rule that nobody can charge people to Beta test?
I'll answer it for you. It doesn't exist. "Beta testing" has always been a term with a different meaning for every software that has used it. What does matter are the terms that you agree to at the point of purchase.
Just because somebody does something one way, it doesn't mean anybody else has to do it that way. Especially when referring to a term that has no real definition or even standard practice already.
Would I get mad if Valve released an incomplete Portal for money? No. I'd be disappointed, maybe, but I'd play it.
Would I get mad if there were sycophantic cretins in the Valve forums telling me that I'm not allowed to complain about or make suggestions as to the direction and progress of "development" because I am Valve's plaything and should be grateful for the opportunity to be exploited and both pay for and test their broken software?
Probably.
Pointing at the ToS and saying "Right here in section 19, paragraph 7, it says: We are allowed to be incompetent morons at any time." does not mean you are not an incompetent moron.
I've seen this too.
Right here guys. If you want to change the meaning of "beta testing" to include the sale of incomplete software, go right ahead, nobody is stopping you.
But the iron rule of consumerism for hundreds of years has been that if you charge money for a product or service, you are responsible for it. In the same way that you can't sue a passing doctor who treats you in an emergency for free, you can't accuse a company with a free product of incompetence or fraud.
If the product isn't free... if you, as we have, paid for it, it's open season.
I am not, of course, suggesting suing Mojang over a crappy patch. I am telling you you're insane if you think we can't or shouldn't complain or voice an (negative) opinion over a change we don't like.