So you're fine with the TNT, Redstone and all that other stuff.
But as soon as somebody uses gunpowder in a logical way you flip a table and quit?
I have refrained from posting in this thread for some time but this is where I must put in my 2 cents.
First cent: guns are part of the modern world, as is cement, steel, computers and electric. These things don't fit in a fantasy game because of their relation to our current modern experience. To keep minecraft a congruent game these modern aspects ( despite how cool they would be) must be mutually excluded. Each has a fantasy replacement and therefore can't be added in a balanced maner.
Second cent: we have a sword and a bow for weapons designed to kill things but you can hit things with any item you can hold. Weapons would be cool but how would you fit them into a game that is centered around creativity instead of war. Let's spend more time making minecraft better and less time turning it into The Hunger Games.
This is my reason for not adding these things to minecraft.
I have refrained from posting in this thread for some time but this is where I must put in my 2 cents.
First cent: guns are part of the modern world, as is cement, steel, computers and electric. These things don't fit in a fantasy game because of their relation to our current modern experience. To keep minecraft a congruent game these modern aspects ( despite how cool they would be) must be mutually excluded. Each has a fantasy replacement and therefore can't be added in a balanced maner.
Second cent: we have a sword and a bow for weapons designed to kill things but you can hit things with any item you can hold. Weapons would be cool but how would you fit them into a game that is centered around creativity instead of war. Let's spend more time making minecraft better and less time turning it into The Hunger Games.
This is my reason for not adding these things to minecraft.
I have to admit, you have some very solid points... and going in alignment with what you stated, I would surmise that you would not be adverse to getting rid of TNT altogether for the same reasons, and also would do well getting rid of the redstone devices (such as pistons levers buttons redstone torches, and repeaters) and the redstone mechanics altogether. Some people do prefer the minimalistic approach to MC because they feel that that encourages more creativity... and it is a good point.
I, however, like the diverse advancements we are seeing in the game, especially with the redstone technology. To that same reasoning, I would enjoy a more diverse weapon set and a better use for my stockpile of gunpowder besides making splash potions or TNT.
I think the musket should do seven hearts of damage at point blank range. At sixteen, it turns into 5-6, and every two blocks after that it loses a heart of damage. For the minimalist people, it is as simple as avoiding them all together.How about a blunderbuss? I think that it should instantly kill a player up to six blocks away and after that, it does nothing.
I think the musket should do seven hearts of damage at point blank range. At sixteen, it turns into 5-6, and every two blocks after that it loses a heart of damage. For the minimalist people, it is as simple as avoiding them all together.
How about a blunderbuss? I think that it should instantly kill a player up to six blocks away and after that, it does nothing.
Blunderbuss? Dear god no. The way you phrased it that thing would be so OP it might as well be considered a god weapon.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oh hey. Looks like you're reading my signature. That's nice. If you thought I was going to put something funny here, I'm not. I will however put a link to my suggestion about gold tools. I think it's fairly popular. It would be nice if it was added. Just click the link and look at it. Please? I'm desperate. http://www.minecraft...-arent-useless/
So you're fine with the TNT, Redstone and all that other stuff.
But as soon as somebody uses gunpowder in a logical way you flip a table and quit?
A fantasy game is good with some technology but not all.
Look at The Elder Scrolls series... No guns whatsoever yet there are robots in the game (Dwarven Spiders, Dwarven Spheres, Dwarven Centurions, etc) and there was even Dwarven air ships AND space ships... Yet NO guns at all. The most advanced weapon is the Dwarven Crossbow because that's all that really is needed... Oh and TNT is also in The Elder Scrolls series (We get to use it in the Tribunal expansion in Morrowind).
So a lot of the redstone machinery, TNT, etc stuff are just fine to have for Minecraft. It doesn't kill the fantasy feel of the game... But guns do. Guns will flat out just ruin the fantasy feel, it will make the combat system unbalanced, etc. Any gun too, including muskets, flintlocks, whatever!
Plus we have a great logical way of using gunpower... We can make splash potions that do damage to enemies via poison or other means... Which is pretty much like grenades!
A fantasy game is good with some technology but not all.
Look at The Elder Scrolls series... No guns whatsoever yet there are robots in the game (Dwarven Spiders, Dwarven Spheres, Dwarven Centurions, etc) and there was even Dwarven air ships AND space ships... Yet NO guns at all. The most advanced weapon is the Dwarven Crossbow because that's all that really is needed... Oh and TNT is also in The Elder Scrolls series (We get to use it in the Tribunal expansion in Morrowind).
So a lot of the redstone machinery, TNT, etc stuff are just fine to have for Minecraft. It doesn't kill the fantasy feel of the game... But guns do. Guns will flat out just ruin the fantasy feel, it will make the combat system unbalanced, etc. Any gun too, including muskets, flintlocks, whatever!
Plus we have a great logical way of using gunpower... We can make splash potions that do damage to enemies via poison or other means... Which is pretty much like grenades!
I...I...I... I don't like the idea of guns much more than you do but saying that they aren't included in the Elder Scrolls is a terrible suggestion. And stop getting mods confused with the actual game! There are no dwemer airships or spaceships in the Elder Scrolls!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oh hey. Looks like you're reading my signature. That's nice. If you thought I was going to put something funny here, I'm not. I will however put a link to my suggestion about gold tools. I think it's fairly popular. It would be nice if it was added. Just click the link and look at it. Please? I'm desperate. http://www.minecraft...-arent-useless/
I think the musket should do seven hearts of damage at point blank range. At sixteen, it turns into 5-6, and every two blocks after that it loses a heart of damage. For the minimalist people, it is as simple as avoiding them all together.
How about a blunderbuss? I think that it should instantly kill a player up to six blocks away and after that, it does nothing.
Yeah... I'm going to have to say no to this as well... I really wouldn't want to see a wide selection of firearms, maybe a flintlock rifle and a pistol, but that would be about it for firearms for me.
However, if it were implemented, I'd propose something like:
12 hearts @ 1 block away
10 hearts @ 2 blocks away + 1 heart to the sideways adjacent blocks
8 hearts @ 3 blocks away + 2 hearts to the sideways adjacent blocks
6 hearts @ 4 blocks away + 3 hearts to the sideways adjacent blocks
4 hearts @ 5 blocks away + 3 hearts to the immediate sideways adjacent blocks + 1 heart to 1 more block out to the side
3 hearts @ 6 blocks away + 2 hearts to the immediate sideways adjacent 2 blocks to either side
2 hearts @ 7 blocks away + 2 hearts to the immediate sideways adjacent blocks + 1 heart to 1 more block out to the side
1 heart to a 5 block row @ 8 blocks away
With knock back (III if damage is >8 hearts, II if Damage is greater than 2 hearts, I if 2 or less hearts), requires 9 seconds to reload and takes 3 shot packets to fire from inventory (will not reload if you don't have the 3 shots to use).
And stop getting mods confused with the actual game! There are no dwemer airships or spaceships in the Elder Scrolls!
Morrowind - Bloodmoon expansion. A mage from Ald-Ruhn wants you to go to the island of Solstheim to find the dwemer airship he had built from dwemer blueprints and had sent to Solstheim to collect something (which you will have to go and collect on your own as well for the quest).
You will find that the airship has crashed and everybody on it is dead.
Skyrim - Dragonborn expansion... Go back to Solstheim and you will find that the airship is still there in ruins.
As for the space ship. It has been mentioned in history of Tamriel (FYI: lore).
Morrowind - Bloodmoon expansion. A mage from Ald-Ruhn wants you to go to the island of Solstheim to find the dwemer airship he had built from dwemer blueprints and had sent to Solstheim to collect something (which you will have to go and collect on your own as well for the quest).
You will find that the airship has crashed and everybody on it is dead.
Skyrim - Dragonborn expansion... Go back to Solstheim and you will find that the airship is still there in ruins.
As for the space ship. It has been mentioned in history of Tamriel (FYI: lore).
How in the name of Akatosh did I not see this?!?!?!? I have played through every Elder Scrolls game to date and have not found these. After googling it to make sure, you were right. But I searched everywhere I could and still found no mention of a spaceship anywhere.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oh hey. Looks like you're reading my signature. That's nice. If you thought I was going to put something funny here, I'm not. I will however put a link to my suggestion about gold tools. I think it's fairly popular. It would be nice if it was added. Just click the link and look at it. Please? I'm desperate. http://www.minecraft...-arent-useless/
I used The Elder Scrolls series as an example of a fantasy game which has some advanced technology but doesn't have guns or other specific technology things.
Minecraft is considered as a fantasy game and it does has some advanced technology (redstone machines) yet no guns...
Guns are one of those things that has NO RIGHT to be in a fantasy game. Steampunk game or higher, yes. (Fable 2 is pretty much a Steampunk fantasy game, to give an example)... And well I don't honestly see Minecraft being like that. Minecraft, to me, is a pure fantasy game...
So like I said, no reason to have guns. At the very least, I would accept them to make an OPTIONAL DLC for guns but not in an official update. (Plus I highly doubt Mojang or 4J will add guns to either version of the game anyways).
@Kain1750
The spaceship I just remember. I might be incorrect. However, I wont be surprise if the dwemer did since they did airships, giant world-destroying golem-like machines, and more as well!
There are plenty of games under the category of fantasy games that have guns. So far every argument you have used, me or someone else has provided a counterexample.
The classic tabletop fantasy roleplaying game that originally defined most fantasy roleplaying games (Advanced Dungeons & Dragons) has guns, and it isn't steam punk in the least....and far less so than the elder scrolls series was steam punk-ish.
I like redstone in minecraft and the creativity it adds through a more complex interaction with the world. TNT is also ok because it is an aid in mining large areas with ease on top of aiding in quick destruction of projects or as a defense.
What would a musket add to minecraft that it needs to be a better game? That is what I was getting at with my post.
Oh well. It doesn't matter. It is already confirmed that guns will NOT be added to Minecraft. (And don't even dare to make any excuse. I think when they mean no guns, they mean it).
I like redstone in minecraft and the creativity it adds through a more complex interaction with the world. TNT is also ok because it is an aid in mining large areas with ease on top of aiding in quick destruction of projects or as a defense.
What would a musket add to minecraft that it needs to be a better game? That is what I was getting at with my post.
This is a good post, instead of just saying it doesn't feel right.
I think it just adds a new option for ranged combat which really fails to spring up and seems very easy to get from TNT to musket/ flintlock.
Ranged combat in minecraft without the musket will not have the same selection as melee will with these changes.
The point of this suggestion was to improve on the combat we have in minecraft and how we go about selecting what weapons we want.
They wouldn't deviate too much on power to prevent there from being an obvious choice, but larger ones would require more resources and maybe an anvil to craft, other ones might have further hit range and better knockback for a defensive style.
The same would go for muskets bows and crossbows.
Bows would be the fastest firing, alright damage option.
Crossbows would take time to reload, but the arrow would travel straighter and with more power.
Flintlocks would complete the trend by being the extreme, long load time and speedy high damage bullet.
And since there ain't much magical about guns, I thought we could take away the ability of enchantments while instead having its advancements requiring you to craft it on an anvil.
The reason we think this will make it a better game is because the combat system we have now is complete garbage. I don't think it feels right to have TNT in the game without muskets. The mechanism is not that complicated.
And the "Having TNT without muskets" thing is just a personal opinion.
I'm okay with having TNT cause it fits Minecraft. Guns in general do not fit well in the game in my honest opinion. There's no need for them.
I do want crossbows though and more melee weapons.
My personal opinion on the matter is either get rid of gunpowder and TNT altogether or add primitive firearms to the game that would fit in a late middle ages setting. I'm actually ok with it going either way, but having TNT and gunpowder and not primitive guns, just feels wrong to me, and will feel more wrong when fireworks are added.
...and use some other ingrediant for a splash potion besides gunpowder... it really doesn't make much sense to me how adding gunpowder to a liquid is supposed to make the potion able to be thrown anyway...maybe use a chicken feather instead.
I have refrained from posting in this thread for some time but this is where I must put in my 2 cents.
First cent: guns are part of the modern world, as is cement, steel, computers and electric. These things don't fit in a fantasy game because of their relation to our current modern experience. To keep minecraft a congruent game these modern aspects ( despite how cool they would be) must be mutually excluded. Each has a fantasy replacement and therefore can't be added in a balanced maner.
Second cent: we have a sword and a bow for weapons designed to kill things but you can hit things with any item you can hold. Weapons would be cool but how would you fit them into a game that is centered around creativity instead of war. Let's spend more time making minecraft better and less time turning it into The Hunger Games.
This is my reason for not adding these things to minecraft.
I have to admit, you have some very solid points... and going in alignment with what you stated, I would surmise that you would not be adverse to getting rid of TNT altogether for the same reasons, and also would do well getting rid of the redstone devices (such as pistons levers buttons redstone torches, and repeaters) and the redstone mechanics altogether. Some people do prefer the minimalistic approach to MC because they feel that that encourages more creativity... and it is a good point.
I, however, like the diverse advancements we are seeing in the game, especially with the redstone technology. To that same reasoning, I would enjoy a more diverse weapon set and a better use for my stockpile of gunpowder besides making splash potions or TNT.
I would like to have the musket slightly more accurate than a two block spread at 16 blocks.
I would prefer a power drop off at range instead.
I think at 16 blocks a one block sized dispersion would be good, with damage being about 5-6 hearts at that range.
I was just citing this as a quick and dirty example... the numbers could be flexible for balance purposes.
Blunderbuss? Dear god no. The way you phrased it that thing would be so OP it might as well be considered a god weapon.
http://www.minecraft...-arent-useless/
A fantasy game is good with some technology but not all.
Look at The Elder Scrolls series... No guns whatsoever yet there are robots in the game (Dwarven Spiders, Dwarven Spheres, Dwarven Centurions, etc) and there was even Dwarven air ships AND space ships... Yet NO guns at all. The most advanced weapon is the Dwarven Crossbow because that's all that really is needed... Oh and TNT is also in The Elder Scrolls series (We get to use it in the Tribunal expansion in Morrowind).
So a lot of the redstone machinery, TNT, etc stuff are just fine to have for Minecraft. It doesn't kill the fantasy feel of the game... But guns do. Guns will flat out just ruin the fantasy feel, it will make the combat system unbalanced, etc. Any gun too, including muskets, flintlocks, whatever!
Plus we have a great logical way of using gunpower... We can make splash potions that do damage to enemies via poison or other means... Which is pretty much like grenades!
I...I...I... I don't like the idea of guns much more than you do but saying that they aren't included in the Elder Scrolls is a terrible suggestion. And stop getting mods confused with the actual game! There are no dwemer airships or spaceships in the Elder Scrolls!
http://www.minecraft...-arent-useless/
Yeah... I'm going to have to say no to this as well... I really wouldn't want to see a wide selection of firearms, maybe a flintlock rifle and a pistol, but that would be about it for firearms for me.
However, if it were implemented, I'd propose something like:
12 hearts @ 1 block away
10 hearts @ 2 blocks away + 1 heart to the sideways adjacent blocks
8 hearts @ 3 blocks away + 2 hearts to the sideways adjacent blocks
6 hearts @ 4 blocks away + 3 hearts to the sideways adjacent blocks
4 hearts @ 5 blocks away + 3 hearts to the immediate sideways adjacent blocks + 1 heart to 1 more block out to the side
3 hearts @ 6 blocks away + 2 hearts to the immediate sideways adjacent 2 blocks to either side
2 hearts @ 7 blocks away + 2 hearts to the immediate sideways adjacent blocks + 1 heart to 1 more block out to the side
1 heart to a 5 block row @ 8 blocks away
With knock back (III if damage is >8 hearts, II if Damage is greater than 2 hearts, I if 2 or less hearts), requires 9 seconds to reload and takes 3 shot packets to fire from inventory (will not reload if you don't have the 3 shots to use).
Spread pattern:
#..#..#..#..#..#..#
#..#..#..B..#..#..#
#..#..#.12.#..#..#
#..#..1.10.1..#..#
#..#..2..8..2..#..#
#..#..3..6..3..#..#
#..1..3..4..3..1..#
#..2..2..3..2..2..#
#..1..2..2..2..1..#
#..1..1..1..1..1..#
#.#..#..#..#..#.#
Morrowind - Bloodmoon expansion. A mage from Ald-Ruhn wants you to go to the island of Solstheim to find the dwemer airship he had built from dwemer blueprints and had sent to Solstheim to collect something (which you will have to go and collect on your own as well for the quest).
You will find that the airship has crashed and everybody on it is dead.
Skyrim - Dragonborn expansion... Go back to Solstheim and you will find that the airship is still there in ruins.
As for the space ship. It has been mentioned in history of Tamriel (FYI: lore).
How in the name of Akatosh did I not see this?!?!?!? I have played through every Elder Scrolls game to date and have not found these. After googling it to make sure, you were right. But I searched everywhere I could and still found no mention of a spaceship anywhere.
http://www.minecraft...-arent-useless/
I used The Elder Scrolls series as an example of a fantasy game which has some advanced technology but doesn't have guns or other specific technology things.
Minecraft is considered as a fantasy game and it does has some advanced technology (redstone machines) yet no guns...
Guns are one of those things that has NO RIGHT to be in a fantasy game. Steampunk game or higher, yes. (Fable 2 is pretty much a Steampunk fantasy game, to give an example)... And well I don't honestly see Minecraft being like that. Minecraft, to me, is a pure fantasy game...
So like I said, no reason to have guns. At the very least, I would accept them to make an OPTIONAL DLC for guns but not in an official update. (Plus I highly doubt Mojang or 4J will add guns to either version of the game anyways).
@Kain1750
The spaceship I just remember. I might be incorrect. However, I wont be surprise if the dwemer did since they did airships, giant world-destroying golem-like machines, and more as well!
What would a musket add to minecraft that it needs to be a better game? That is what I was getting at with my post.
Oh well. It doesn't matter. It is already confirmed that guns will NOT be added to Minecraft. (And don't even dare to make any excuse. I think when they mean no guns, they mean it).
This is a good post, instead of just saying it doesn't feel right.
I think it just adds a new option for ranged combat which really fails to spring up and seems very easy to get from TNT to musket/ flintlock.
Ranged combat in minecraft without the musket will not have the same selection as melee will with these changes.
The point of this suggestion was to improve on the combat we have in minecraft and how we go about selecting what weapons we want.
They wouldn't deviate too much on power to prevent there from being an obvious choice, but larger ones would require more resources and maybe an anvil to craft, other ones might have further hit range and better knockback for a defensive style.
The same would go for muskets bows and crossbows.
Bows would be the fastest firing, alright damage option.
Crossbows would take time to reload, but the arrow would travel straighter and with more power.
Flintlocks would complete the trend by being the extreme, long load time and speedy high damage bullet.
And since there ain't much magical about guns, I thought we could take away the ability of enchantments while instead having its advancements requiring you to craft it on an anvil.
Edit: sorry if I don't make much sense, 2am.
I'm okay with having TNT cause it fits Minecraft. Guns in general do not fit well in the game in my honest opinion. There's no need for them.
I do want crossbows though and more melee weapons.
My personal opinion on the matter is either get rid of gunpowder and TNT altogether or add primitive firearms to the game that would fit in a late middle ages setting. I'm actually ok with it going either way, but having TNT and gunpowder and not primitive guns, just feels wrong to me, and will feel more wrong when fireworks are added.
...and use some other ingrediant for a splash potion besides gunpowder... it really doesn't make much sense to me how adding gunpowder to a liquid is supposed to make the potion able to be thrown anyway...maybe use a chicken feather instead.