- Anvil should have two features; the PC's feature and a four by four crafting grid to craft bigger and better weapons
- Longsword:
- Battleaxe:
- War hammer:
- Spear/Javelin:
- Dagger:
- Random mob weapons: Pitch fork...
- Lance:
- Crossbow: Similar to a bow, but shoots slower, but more damage and more accurate. You need the anvil. Not effective against players with iron armor, diamond armor and gold armor, but almost no protection from chain and leather. Gets rejected by iron gold and diamond armor. Like the arrows bounce off.
- Musket/Flintlock Pistol: This is the most debatable one. Some want it, some despise the idea. Would shoot straight, can't dodge the shot by moving like you can with the bow. Would be effective against iron, gold, and leather armor, but get almost completely rejected by diamond and chain. Requires musket balls of either iron or stone, and consumes one gunpowder with each shot. Costly to miss. Low durability and low fire rate. It takes like five seconds to reload, but very rewarding to hit the target. Remember, this one is still up for debate.
-Shields: There will be another armor slot for shields. Shields provide 75% damage resistance if used while the enemy hits. All tiers would provide the same resistance, but some last longer than others. If you craft it with a stick coming out of the middle, (Spiked shield) would cause one heart of damage to anyone attacking them that doesn't have armor.
- Quivers/musket ball pouches: These would be worn by the player to use the type of ammo they hold. Quivers would hold up to 64 of the same arrow type/bolt type, and pouches would hold 16 musket balls of the same type. This would allow there to be different arrow types or bolt types or musket ball types. Like incendiary, explosive, and poison, and for the musket balls, stone and iron. This would be literally worn by the player, the quiver on their back, the musket ball pouch on their side.
-Magic: Another slot on your inventory/armor area, would be the scroll slot. You make a scroll out of paper and one ender eye, and you have the blank scroll. You enchant the scroll to have powers. When you have the enchanted scroll in that slot, the power should be fueled with rage. Rage would come in potion form and you can drink it to get some rage in your rage bar in the HUD. You will eventually run out of rage. Some scrolls would be fire, you shoot a fire charge from your hand, Shock, you shoot a small bolt of electricity from your hand, just things like that.
I'm not reading through the 33 pages on this topic to see if this was covered or not, and especially after reading the last few pages... I'm not even sure where this is supposed to be going anymore.
I like the addition of multiple weapons, I'm definitely in favor of more variety. But since Arrows are already stack-able in 64 arrow slots, Why do we need a quiver or a pouch?
I think the game would be fine if it just used Arrows for Crossbow Bolts, I understand that there is a difference in real life, I just don't see an advantage to making that distinction within the game.
I think the Crossbow should be faster to fire, but slower to load than the bow. Normally you hold down LT on the bow until you reach full (or even partial draw), and then release to release the arrow. What I propose instead with an empty Crossbow, you hold down LT to load a 'bolt' (or arrow) until you hear a 'click' and the ID state of the crossbow changes from empty crossbow to loaded crossbow, such that the next time you just click the LT button, the 'bolt' (or arrow) is shot at your target.
If the firearms idea is used, I think a crafting recipe of: { 1 iron ingot, 1 paper, 1 gunpowder => 16 iron shot } would be reasonable.
If magic as stated above is used, I'm not crazy about a new bar called 'Rage' that has to be used... It makes it sound like you have to be angry to use magic. Plus, you can already use in game mechanics to burn for magic, you could instead have magic use the hunger bar, and when that gets depleted, use the health bar instead.... or even use the XP.
Sounds like the Javelin/spear would be insanely hard to aim....especially if you had to sprint in order to throw them. Combine that with a mob closing in on you, it would be almost useless in most encounters unless it also had an effective range similar to a bow.
You didn't mention a 'Pike'... it would be like a Lance but for unmounted soldiers against a mounted unit, (it's similar to a 16 foot long spear (almost 5 meters long for those that prefer metric measurements)) Not effective for close range melee, best to receive a charge and keep a mounted unit at bay.
Those are the exact ways they are done in Balkons weapon mod. I would not like it if the weapons in this game are a complete remake of balkons weapon mod. Quivers and pouches would give the ability to add different tiers of ammo into the game.
^you could throw a javelin walking any direction or stance, however it would just be powered by a running shot.
And you'll find most commonly you're sprinting towards your target or he's running directly at you.
The power you get from it though, you could basically throw it directly at them.
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I put my shirt on one leg at a time, just like everybody else.
Those are the exact ways they are done in Balkons weapon mod. I would not like it if the weapons in this game are a complete remake of balkons weapon mod. Quivers and pouches would give the ability to add different tiers of ammo into the game.
Then you are treading very dangerously close to proposing copyright infringement without Balkons' express permission. To avoid copyright laws, there must be a provable minimum of a 10% difference between the completed works, and as has been pointed out may times before player mods (not mods officially produced by 4J) will NOT be supported on the xBox platform. You should probably consider allowing at least some minor changes to the overall concept.
If 100% of your work is a direct copy, and you just left 80% of that work out... it is still copyright infringement.
IE. If I write a paper and only use just 1 paragraph from a book of over 1000 pages, if that one paragraph is a word for word direct copy from the original text and I do not give credit to the source, that is plagiarism which is partially what helps to define copyright laws.
In other words, excluding things does not constitute a change to the original.
I suppose that 4J 'could' argue that the update was written from scratch in a completely different programming language (ie. not Java), but then it would be a matter as to whether or not that counts if there is no overall conceptual change. I'm not sure where the legality on that line would be, seems a bit gray to me.
If 100% of your work is a direct copy, and you just left 80% of that work out... it is still copyright infringement.
IE. If I write a paper and only use just 1 paragraph from a book of over 1000 pages, if that one paragraph is a word for word direct copy from the original text and I do not give credit to the source, that is plagiarism which is partially what helps to define copyright laws.
In other words, excluding things does not constitute a change to the original.
I suppose that 4J 'could' argue that the update was written from scratch in a completely different programming language (ie. not Java), but then it would be a matter as to whether or not that counts if there is no overall conceptual change. I'm not sure where the legality on that line would be, seems a bit gray to me.
#1 no MOD work on a game actually belongs to the modder.
#2 I doubt Balkons is copyrighted.
#3 would they wanna sue? It costs a lot of money for court and it's just more people getting to experience his mod which he should love.
#4 you could if you wanted to quote somebody's work from a book, why not their mod with respects to them donating their ideas from their mod?
We have asked for different things like lances for horses and shields.
These come from our own ideas that were built onto the mod which we basically used as a starting point, much like moders use the game as a start point for their mods.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I put my shirt on one leg at a time, just like everybody else.
#1 no MOD work on a game actually belongs to the modder.
Partially Disagree: The Mod itself is in fact the intellectual property of the Modder, But copyright does not protect 'ideas' n the way that Patents do (and I seriously doubt that ANY Mod was ever patented). Looks like just re-coding the interface would be legally sufficient and wouldn't violate any copyright laws when I started looking more deeply into this:
From: Who owns the Mods? - by Yong Ming Kow and Bonnie Nardi
"Mods are legally protected by copyright but not patents; players cannot afford the expensive patenting process. When Blizzard incorporates a mod into the game, it does not violate copyright. Blizzard simply adopts the ideas of the mods and recodes them (ideas cannot be copyrighted)."
#3 would they wanna sue? It costs a lot of money for court and it's just more people getting to experience his mod which he should love.
Probably not, worst case scenario for them might be that Mojang decides to take a disliking to Balkons Mod and Balkon in particular and counter-sues for copyright infringement for modding the Minecraft game in the first place.
"Early litigation involving modifications to online gaming treated copyright infringement as something to be assumed, not proved. MDY Industries, LLC v. Blizzard Entertainment, Inc., 616 F.Supp.2d 958, 970 (D. Ariz. Loc. R. 2009) found that a modification allowing automated actions by player characters in Blizzard’s multiplayer online role-playing game World of Warcraft infringed Blizzard’s copyright in the game. The court based its finding of infringement largely on the holding of MAI Systems Corp. v. Peak Computer, Inc., 911 F.2d 511 (9th Cir. 1993) which that the copying of a computer program into RAM constituted infringement.
The application of MAI Systems to modification litigation essentially makes all modifications infringements of copyright, as they are code-based adjustments to an existing computer program that are stored both in RAM and in a fixed form (the programming language itself). This means that mods are “legal” only insofar as game developers suffer them to be so; the moment a developer finds a mod distasteful, it can be found to infringe copyright."
#4 you could if you wanted to quote somebody's work from a book, why not their mod with respects to them donating their ideas from their mod?
You could do that, and perhaps that might make everyone happy all around.... then again, I cannot speak for other people and what their opinions/actions will be, I merely look at the possible pitfalls and problems that could be stirred up because of this.
We have asked for different things like lances for horses and shields.
These come from our own ideas that were built onto the mod which we basically used as a starting point, much like moders use the game as a start point for their mods.
But the difference is that the Game Modder actually wrote code, they actually implemented the idea and took it off the drawing board and brought it into the game itself. Asking for things is not nearly the same thing as building those things and inserting them into the code yourself.
It is not the exact same code, and it is not even programmed into the same language. Your argument is invalid. As last said, Balkon cannot sue for copying ideas about very basic things that should already be in the game.As for you last, keep returning to The Demonic Realm of Zether to contribute because your idea was good. As you know, you are gonna get a link for the first stable build. Leonardude has said that everything is almost implemented, just the texture guy is lazy.
It is not the exact same code, and it is not even programmed into the same language. Your argument is invalid. As last said, Balkon cannot sue for copying ideas about very basic things that should already be in the game.
I already conceded most of my original argument if you read what I wrote above... I'm forced to agree that 4J is within their full legal rights to recreate any concept, so long as the code behind it is original. Stating that my argument was invalid is simply redundant.
You said that it should have the same recipies as balkons mod, and I said I did not like that, not for copyright reasons, but because it would make the devs look lazy. I dont see how not using the same recipies is copyright. I dont even know why the concept of copyright was brought up.
You said that it should have the same recipies as balkons mod, and I said I did not like that, not for copyright reasons, but because it would make the devs look lazy. I dont see how not using the same recipies is copyright. I dont even know why the concept of copyright was brought up.
No I didn't... I don't even know what Balkon uses for recipes... in fact, I still haven't even looked up Balkons Mod, my impression was that you wanted it left exactly like Balkons Mod, I think that I just misunderstood you, I had no idea that I had proposed anything even remotely similar to Balkons...I was quoting much of your work from your original post and adding my own original thoughts to it, and I didn't realize at the time that you were stating that what "I said" was the exact same as was done by Balkon.
Anyway... I just think this was mostly just a huge misunderstanding, it is clearer to me what you had meant now that I go back to read it... now that I see I was mistaken on your POV.
One of your recipes made me think that you were basing it off of balkons mod, which was musket balls using paper. Anyways, what would that be for?Hey last guess what? Something just happened that makes me want to throw my Xbox out the window. I was playing oblivion for like an hour and a half, and it glitched and never saved once, so when I died, I lost an hour and a half's worth of progress, even though I have it set to save when I fast travel or wait, which I did plenty of during that time period.
One of your recipes made me think that you were basing it off of balkons mod, which was musket balls using paper. Anyways, what would that be for?
Hey last guess what? Something just happened that makes me want to throw my Xbox out the window. I was playing oblivion for like an hour and a half, and it glitched and never saved once, so when I died, I lost an hour and a half's worth of progress, even though I have it set to save when I fast travel or wait, which I did plenty of during that time period.
That Sucks on what happened to you in Oblivion...
Anyway, that's the basic musket shot recipe in real life: Point musket barrel up, Pour powder down the barrel, pour metal shot down barrel, shove paper wadding down barrel so that when you point your musket level or even at a downward angle, the shot and gunpowder doesn't fall out on the ground before you fire it.
At some point in history, they started mixing the powder and the shot together and wrapped them in a paper charge pouch, you would tear the paper charge open, dump the contents down the barrel, then use the ramrod to shove the paper pouch/container in afterwards to be used as wadding, it was much faster than trying to muck around with a separate powder horn, separate metal shot and separate wadding.
Some variety would be nice in the weapon and armor department. I just dont like the shape of the armors at all and there could be so many more weapon designs... Texture packs are fine but they dont add...
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Enderman Engineering Enderstries: For all your block moving and stacking projects!
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Hey, I've put some on topic stuff... Kinda.
I'm not reading through the 33 pages on this topic to see if this was covered or not, and especially after reading the last few pages... I'm not even sure where this is supposed to be going anymore.
I like the addition of multiple weapons, I'm definitely in favor of more variety. But since Arrows are already stack-able in 64 arrow slots, Why do we need a quiver or a pouch?
I think the game would be fine if it just used Arrows for Crossbow Bolts, I understand that there is a difference in real life, I just don't see an advantage to making that distinction within the game.
I think the Crossbow should be faster to fire, but slower to load than the bow. Normally you hold down LT on the bow until you reach full (or even partial draw), and then release to release the arrow. What I propose instead with an empty Crossbow, you hold down LT to load a 'bolt' (or arrow) until you hear a 'click' and the ID state of the crossbow changes from empty crossbow to loaded crossbow, such that the next time you just click the LT button, the 'bolt' (or arrow) is shot at your target.
If the firearms idea is used, I think a crafting recipe of: { 1 iron ingot, 1 paper, 1 gunpowder => 16 iron shot } would be reasonable.
If magic as stated above is used, I'm not crazy about a new bar called 'Rage' that has to be used... It makes it sound like you have to be angry to use magic. Plus, you can already use in game mechanics to burn for magic, you could instead have magic use the hunger bar, and when that gets depleted, use the health bar instead.... or even use the XP.
Sounds like the Javelin/spear would be insanely hard to aim....especially if you had to sprint in order to throw them. Combine that with a mob closing in on you, it would be almost useless in most encounters unless it also had an effective range similar to a bow.
You didn't mention a 'Pike'... it would be like a Lance but for unmounted soldiers against a mounted unit, (it's similar to a 16 foot long spear (almost 5 meters long for those that prefer metric measurements)) Not effective for close range melee, best to receive a charge and keep a mounted unit at bay.
And you'll find most commonly you're sprinting towards your target or he's running directly at you.
The power you get from it though, you could basically throw it directly at them.
Then you are treading very dangerously close to proposing copyright infringement without Balkons' express permission. To avoid copyright laws, there must be a provable minimum of a 10% difference between the completed works, and as has been pointed out may times before player mods (not mods officially produced by 4J) will NOT be supported on the xBox platform. You should probably consider allowing at least some minor changes to the overall concept.
IE. If I write a paper and only use just 1 paragraph from a book of over 1000 pages, if that one paragraph is a word for word direct copy from the original text and I do not give credit to the source, that is plagiarism which is partially what helps to define copyright laws.
In other words, excluding things does not constitute a change to the original.
I suppose that 4J 'could' argue that the update was written from scratch in a completely different programming language (ie. not Java), but then it would be a matter as to whether or not that counts if there is no overall conceptual change. I'm not sure where the legality on that line would be, seems a bit gray to me.
#1 no MOD work on a game actually belongs to the modder.
#2 I doubt Balkons is copyrighted.
#3 would they wanna sue? It costs a lot of money for court and it's just more people getting to experience his mod which he should love.
#4 you could if you wanted to quote somebody's work from a book, why not their mod with respects to them donating their ideas from their mod?
We have asked for different things like lances for horses and shields.
These come from our own ideas that were built onto the mod which we basically used as a starting point, much like moders use the game as a start point for their mods.
Partially Disagree: The Mod itself is in fact the intellectual property of the Modder, But copyright does not protect 'ideas' n the way that Patents do (and I seriously doubt that ANY Mod was ever patented). Looks like just re-coding the interface would be legally sufficient and wouldn't violate any copyright laws when I started looking more deeply into this:
From: Who owns the Mods? - by Yong Ming Kow and Bonnie Nardi
"Mods are legally protected by copyright but not patents; players cannot afford the expensive patenting process. When Blizzard incorporates a mod into the game, it does not violate copyright. Blizzard simply adopts the ideas of the mods and recodes them (ideas cannot be copyrighted)."
Maybe not Formally, but copyright can be implied or inferred after the fact. It's usually just better to establish that ahead of time.
Probably not, worst case scenario for them might be that Mojang decides to take a disliking to Balkons Mod and Balkon in particular and counter-sues for copyright infringement for modding the Minecraft game in the first place.
Gaming Mods and Copyright
"Early litigation involving modifications to online gaming treated copyright infringement as something to be assumed, not proved. MDY Industries, LLC v. Blizzard Entertainment, Inc., 616 F.Supp.2d 958, 970 (D. Ariz. Loc. R. 2009) found that a modification allowing automated actions by player characters in Blizzard’s multiplayer online role-playing game World of Warcraft infringed Blizzard’s copyright in the game. The court based its finding of infringement largely on the holding of MAI Systems Corp. v. Peak Computer, Inc., 911 F.2d 511 (9th Cir. 1993) which that the copying of a computer program into RAM constituted infringement.
The application of MAI Systems to modification litigation essentially makes all modifications infringements of copyright, as they are code-based adjustments to an existing computer program that are stored both in RAM and in a fixed form (the programming language itself). This means that mods are “legal” only insofar as game developers suffer them to be so; the moment a developer finds a mod distasteful, it can be found to infringe copyright."
You could do that, and perhaps that might make everyone happy all around.... then again, I cannot speak for other people and what their opinions/actions will be, I merely look at the possible pitfalls and problems that could be stirred up because of this.
But the difference is that the Game Modder actually wrote code, they actually implemented the idea and took it off the drawing board and brought it into the game itself. Asking for things is not nearly the same thing as building those things and inserting them into the code yourself.
I already conceded most of my original argument if you read what I wrote above... I'm forced to agree that 4J is within their full legal rights to recreate any concept, so long as the code behind it is original. Stating that my argument was invalid is simply redundant.
No I didn't... I don't even know what Balkon uses for recipes... in fact, I still haven't even looked up Balkons Mod, my impression was that you wanted it left exactly like Balkons Mod, I think that I just misunderstood you, I had no idea that I had proposed anything even remotely similar to Balkons...I was quoting much of your work from your original post and adding my own original thoughts to it, and I didn't realize at the time that you were stating that what "I said" was the exact same as was done by Balkon.
Anyway... I just think this was mostly just a huge misunderstanding, it is clearer to me what you had meant now that I go back to read it... now that I see I was mistaken on your POV.
That Sucks on what happened to you in Oblivion...
Anyway, that's the basic musket shot recipe in real life: Point musket barrel up, Pour powder down the barrel, pour metal shot down barrel, shove paper wadding down barrel so that when you point your musket level or even at a downward angle, the shot and gunpowder doesn't fall out on the ground before you fire it.
At some point in history, they started mixing the powder and the shot together and wrapped them in a paper charge pouch, you would tear the paper charge open, dump the contents down the barrel, then use the ramrod to shove the paper pouch/container in afterwards to be used as wadding, it was much faster than trying to muck around with a separate powder horn, separate metal shot and separate wadding.