As every body should know by now we're not getting the Book and quil on the Xbox version for several reasons,
It takes forever to type, the text sensor thingy can't handle it, etc. But some of us still want a way to communicate without using signs or building huge letters out of blocks. So I thought about it for a while and came up with an idea, the Parchment and quil (WIP name). It would be crafted like a Book and quil execpt with paper instead of a book, it would be on page and could hold 6-10 lines of text.
Here's where things get complicated, my first thought was that you could only read the text when holding it in your hand. But then I began to think, what if you could place it in an item frame? Like a poster. It could probley use a retextured map just with a lot less pixels, I also thought about a way to draw on it something, but I'm still on the fence about that.
So what do you think? Suggestions? Ideas? I'm not a techie so I don't know what it would take to program all this, but it doesn't seem that it would be to hard. Post your thought below, and if you like this idea click the arrow.
-Dr.Mr.Sir,hockeymaskbob-
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If it took more than one shot you weren't using a Jacobs.
Its doable... but we are already seeing tremendous lag when too much text on too many signs are in use as it is. this would amplify the problem if it was put in an item frame. Technically the book is a better way to store info, as that text doesn't have to live in active RAM until a player selects it to read it, and then it can recapture that RAM for other use later.
Personally, I think it is a mistake to take the book and quill away from the consoles as that was a way to significantly reduce the excessive lag that is caused by players trying to do the same thing with signs.
I just don't think 6 to 10 lines of type would be legible inside an item frame on virtually any sized TV, let alone in 4-player splitscreen mode. Signs on many TVs are frequently almost illegible as it is.
As every body should know by now we're not getting the Book and quil on the Xbox version for several reasons,
It takes forever to type, the text sensor thingy can't handle it, etc. But some of us still want a way to communicate without using signs or building huge letters out of blocks. So I thought about it for a while and came up with an idea, the Parchment and quil (WIP name). It would be crafted like a Book and quil execpt with paper instead of a book, it would be on page and could hold 6-10 lines of text.
Here's where things get complicated, my first thought was that you could only read the text when holding it in your hand. But then I began to think, what if you could place it in an item frame? Like a poster. It could probley use a retextured map just with a lot less pixels, I also thought about a way to draw on it something, but I'm still on the fence about that.
So what do you think? Suggestions? Ideas? I'm not a techie so I don't know what it would take to program all this, but it doesn't seem that it would be to hard. Post your thought below, and if you like this idea click the arrow.
Its doable... but we are already seeing tremendous lag when too much text on too many signs are in use as it is. this would amplify the problem if it was put in an item frame. Technically the book is a better way to store info, as that text doesn't have to live in active RAM until a player selects it to read it, and then it can recapture that RAM for other use later.
Valid point, I was thinking of it like a map, technically this is possible on the PC already you just need the smallest map and a flat area,
By placing wool blocks you can pretty much write whatever you want, also that's the best argument for the book and quil I've ever heard
I just don't think 6 to 10 lines of type would be legible inside an item frame on virtually any sized TV, let alone in 4-player splitscreen mode. Signs on many TVs are frequently almost illegible as it is.
Ya I probley exaggerated a bit there, 100×100 pixels, not sure how many words you can fit in that area.
And I think we need a new suggestion, bigger font on signs.
Valid point, I was thinking of it like a map, technically this is possible on the PC already you just need the smallest map and a flat area,
By placing wool blocks you can pretty much write whatever you want, also that's the best argument for the book and quil I've ever heard
Ya I probley exaggerated a bit there, 100×100 pixels, not sure how many words you can fit in that area.
And I think we need a new suggestion, bigger font on signs.
Whaaaat?
on PC(it may be a mod) you can write on a piece of paper. it doesnt show up like a sign. you have to be holding it or be in a menu with it and hover over it. it's like reading a sticky note.
You guys should really get the Xbox controller keyboard.
When typing on a sign, you do not need that annoying pop up screen - you can just type without that; it's great.
Ya I probley exaggerated a bit there, 100×100 pixels, not sure how many words you can fit in that area.
And I think we need a new suggestion, bigger font on signs.
I'm not sure you truly understand how fonts work. Increasing the font size would decrease the amount of text that could be fit onto the sign itself. (Changing the font style can sometimes squeeze a little more text into the same space, but the difference would not be that significant on a Minecraft sign.) If you want more text in the same amount of display space, you would need a smaller font... and that's the issue with books. The current pop-up screen when you type a sign without a typepad covers the entire screen (even when the rest of game is being played in splitscreen) so that people are assured of being able to read what they are trying to type on any sized TV (keeping in mind that not everyone has a 60-inch or larger screen TV). Currently, with signs, this disruption of play only occurs when typing the sign, but the consequence of this is that signs can be very tough to read on some sizes of TVs and even tougher to read when playing in 4-player splitscreen (where the screen size for each player is effectively quartered). This problem would be compounded by any system that would want to put more type in the same amount of screen space... and made even worse if you opted to put the paper inside an item frame (which is a very small block). The only way people would be able to read a book, is to make it open the same way the text typing feature does now... by covering the entire screen... thereby effectively stopping the play of everyone in splitscreen mode every time a book is either typed in or read. This would be a huge annoyance. Compounded with the additional issues of the typing in the book having to be filtered by Microsoft, and what you wind up with is just a big pain in the butt. For people wanting to make elaborate rules and/or story lines for their worlds, I would rather see a page of text that the host could write that could be forced to be displayed separately online once just as the guest player enters the world (i.e. not able to be repeatedly accessed while the gameplay is going on).
....If you want more text in the same amount of display space, you would need a smaller font... and that's the issue with books. The current pop-up screen when you type a sign without a typepad covers the entire screen (even when the rest of game is being played in splitscreen) so that people are assured of being able to read what they are trying to type on any sized TV (keeping in mind that not everyone has a 60-inch or larger screen TV)....
Although not everyone has a 60" TV, if you are playing on split-screen, then you are using a HD compatible TV at least (as that is a requirement to play in split screen), and as such, you should have a slightly larger than normal screen size, with much higher digital resolution capability.
Font size, IMIO, really isn't the major issue. Really, it mainly comes down to these 2 factors:
...
Currently, with signs, this disruption of play only occurs when typing the sign, but the consequence of this is that signs can be very tough to read on some sizes of TVs and even tougher to read when playing in 4-player splitscreen (where the screen size for each player is effectively quartered).
...
Compounded with the additional issues of the typing in the book having to be filtered by Microsoft, and what you wind up with is just a big pain in the butt...
Personally, I think if you are playing split screen, you would be able to fill text to just your portion of the screen just fine and be able to read it.
The onscreen keyboard issue could be circumvented by building a split screen keyboard interface which only fills that portion of the screen, but that would mean that the game isn't paused while one player is typing... which means they would be highly vulnerable to attack while in this state. I don't think there is a good work around for the onscreen keyboard, and would recommend that this feature only be used in split screen if the players were using something like the Xbox controller keyboard mentioned by MechanicalWood above.
To address the problems with the Microsoft filters... I guess I'm not understanding why this is a major issue... it seems like it has to go through the filters every time it is read or even periodically throughout the game.... Since the text itself doesn't change until it is edited again... why doesn't it just do the filter check at the time of creation/edit, this should cause a huge drain on resources if it only did it's check once, and not have to do it multiple times throughout the game.
Although not everyone has a 60" TV, if you are playing on split-screen, then you are using a HD compatible TV at least (as that is a requirement to play in split screen), and as such, you should have a slightly larger than normal screen size, with much higher digital resolution capability.
Font size, IMIO, really isn't the major issue. Really, it mainly comes down to these 2 factors:
[size=medium]
Personally, I think if you are playing split screen, you would be able to fill text to just your portion of the screen just fine and be able to read it.
The onscreen keyboard issue could be circumvented by building a split screen keyboard interface which only fills that portion of the screen, but that would mean that the game isn't paused while one player is typing... which means they would be highly vulnerable to attack while in this state. I don't think there is a good work around for the onscreen keyboard, and would recommend that this feature only be used in split screen if the players were using something like the Xbox controller keyboard mentioned by MechanicalWood above.
To address the problems with the Microsoft filters... I guess I'm not understanding why this is a major issue... it seems like it has to go through the filters every time it is read or even periodically throughout the game.... Since the text itself doesn't change until it is edited again... why doesn't it just do the filter check at the time of creation/edit, this should cause a huge drain on resources if it only did it's check once, and not have to do it multiple times throughout the game.
For the most part, I don't disagree with the workarounds you've mentioned. Switching to a plain straight text screen for 1/4 of most HD TVs should be able to yield 6 to 10 lines of legible text. I agree that the bigger issue is the interruption one in splitscreen mode, which the PC doesn't have to worry about. I don't think there is a facility within the game to only pause 1/4 of the screen at a time, but you would know more than I about what it might take, programming-wise, to insert one. It would, of course, have to work in both online and offline modes.
However, the OP was suggesting that the book page be inserted in an item frame, which would mean that the game would not be switching over to a text screen to be read, but would be limited to the normal visual boundaries of the item frame (WAAY too small for text, IMO). The OP also suggested that a larger font for signs would solve the problem for signs, and I was merely pointing out that this would result in the loss of some of the amount of text that can be put on a sign currently (which is currently 4 lines at 15 characters). If they increase the size of the font, we would wind up with, say, 3 lines at 10 characters max on a sign (the current resolution of the game being what it is and unchanged).
Although the game demands HD to play splitscreen, it also must be playable in single player on SD TVs... and some of those are pretty small (even without the screen being quartered). Many people economize by hooking up their children's Xboxes to old SD TVs, so it is still something the company needs to consider when producing Xbox 360 games.
The filtering, I suspect, is something that 4J has little control over (Microsoft's baby).
Similarly, the company cannot logically force everyone to run out and buy a typepad... so the ability to use the type screen designed for the regular controller must remain within the programming of the game... and that, as I understand it, it also a built-in Microsoft feature being accessed by the game. My understanding is that, by default, that screen displays over the entire TV surface regardless of whether or not the game (any game) is at that time in splitscreen mode)... and may also be something that 4J has little control over.
You guys should really get the Xbox controller keyboard.
When typing on a sign, you do not need that annoying pop up screen - you can just type without that; it's great.
gavin uses it. it's a lot easier to manipulate the words on the sign. you dont have to try over and over to line everything up.
For the most part, I don't disagree with the workarounds you've mentioned....
I agree with everything that you said...(so no real point in re-posting all of it)... not sure about the onscreen keyboard though... I know that is there by design, but I believe it can be over ridden should the game program be designed to do so... but that would require making a new onscreen text interface just for split screen mode, and I doubt that is very high on 4Js priority list at the moment.
In order to not pause the game for other players, you might have to have the player that is typing 'phase out' of the game while typing... maybe go invisible to MOBs as per creative mode, or just not take any additional damage and disable creeper explosions within range of the player until done editing/typing (unless other players are present, ie, creeper can't lock to explode on a player that is currently editing text, but could hang around and wait indefinitely until the player is done typing).
This would allow the rest of the game to remain 'in play' for other players, without being too 'broken' or exploitable by players who try and escape hostilities.
There might be a way to get around the frequent Microsoft filtering issue, by scanning once when entering/editing/saving text, but saving it as a graphic in game instead of as active text in the game. Would still have to save the original text for editing purposes later if that feature is allowed.
Of course there may be MS rules / red tape to deal with on that end still...
You guys should really get the Xbox controller keyboard.
When typing on a sign, you do not need that annoying pop up screen - you can just type without that; it's great.
Luckily for me my friend is giving me one.. But I wasn't going to consider getting one at all. They're just too expensive I think.
There is no reason not to add this into this version of the game. If you are just navigating the keyboard with your controller, don't use it. There is no reason to stop the people with a USB keyboard or a chatpad from having this item.
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Click on it. You know you want to.
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It takes forever to type, the text sensor thingy can't handle it, etc. But some of us still want a way to communicate without using signs or building huge letters out of blocks. So I thought about it for a while and came up with an idea, the Parchment and quil (WIP name). It would be crafted like a Book and quil execpt with paper instead of a book, it would be on page and could hold 6-10 lines of text.
Here's where things get complicated, my first thought was that you could only read the text when holding it in your hand. But then I began to think, what if you could place it in an item frame? Like a poster. It could probley use a retextured map just with a lot less pixels, I also thought about a way to draw on it something, but I'm still on the fence about that.
So what do you think? Suggestions? Ideas? I'm not a techie so I don't know what it would take to program all this, but it doesn't seem that it would be to hard. Post your thought below, and if you like this idea click the arrow.
-Dr.Mr.Sir,hockeymaskbob-
Personally, I think it is a mistake to take the book and quill away from the consoles as that was a way to significantly reduce the excessive lag that is caused by players trying to do the same thing with signs.
For player created game or adventure maps. You wouldn't really need it for yourself in your own game.
Like what? Game rules etc?
yeah... Game Rules for game maps...or Back Story/Flavor for Adventure Maps.
Maybe, make it only available for Creative Mode.... I don't really see much need for it in Survival Mode.
isnt that the same as writing on paper in PC?
Valid point, I was thinking of it like a map, technically this is possible on the PC already you just need the smallest map and a flat area,
By placing wool blocks you can pretty much write whatever you want, also that's the best argument for the book and quil I've ever heard
Ya I probley exaggerated a bit there, 100×100 pixels, not sure how many words you can fit in that area.
And I think we need a new suggestion, bigger font on signs.
Whaaaat?
on PC(it may be a mod) you can write on a piece of paper. it doesnt show up like a sign. you have to be holding it or be in a menu with it and hover over it. it's like reading a sticky note.
When typing on a sign, you do not need that annoying pop up screen - you can just type without that; it's great.
I'm not sure you truly understand how fonts work. Increasing the font size would decrease the amount of text that could be fit onto the sign itself. (Changing the font style can sometimes squeeze a little more text into the same space, but the difference would not be that significant on a Minecraft sign.) If you want more text in the same amount of display space, you would need a smaller font... and that's the issue with books. The current pop-up screen when you type a sign without a typepad covers the entire screen (even when the rest of game is being played in splitscreen) so that people are assured of being able to read what they are trying to type on any sized TV (keeping in mind that not everyone has a 60-inch or larger screen TV). Currently, with signs, this disruption of play only occurs when typing the sign, but the consequence of this is that signs can be very tough to read on some sizes of TVs and even tougher to read when playing in 4-player splitscreen (where the screen size for each player is effectively quartered). This problem would be compounded by any system that would want to put more type in the same amount of screen space... and made even worse if you opted to put the paper inside an item frame (which is a very small block). The only way people would be able to read a book, is to make it open the same way the text typing feature does now... by covering the entire screen... thereby effectively stopping the play of everyone in splitscreen mode every time a book is either typed in or read. This would be a huge annoyance. Compounded with the additional issues of the typing in the book having to be filtered by Microsoft, and what you wind up with is just a big pain in the butt. For people wanting to make elaborate rules and/or story lines for their worlds, I would rather see a page of text that the host could write that could be forced to be displayed separately online once just as the guest player enters the world (i.e. not able to be repeatedly accessed while the gameplay is going on).
Although not everyone has a 60" TV, if you are playing on split-screen, then you are using a HD compatible TV at least (as that is a requirement to play in split screen), and as such, you should have a slightly larger than normal screen size, with much higher digital resolution capability.
Font size, IMIO, really isn't the major issue. Really, it mainly comes down to these 2 factors:
...
Currently, with signs, this disruption of play only occurs when typing the sign, but the consequence of this is that signs can be very tough to read on some sizes of TVs and even tougher to read when playing in 4-player splitscreen (where the screen size for each player is effectively quartered).
...
Compounded with the additional issues of the typing in the book having to be filtered by Microsoft, and what you wind up with is just a big pain in the butt...
Personally, I think if you are playing split screen, you would be able to fill text to just your portion of the screen just fine and be able to read it.
The onscreen keyboard issue could be circumvented by building a split screen keyboard interface which only fills that portion of the screen, but that would mean that the game isn't paused while one player is typing... which means they would be highly vulnerable to attack while in this state. I don't think there is a good work around for the onscreen keyboard, and would recommend that this feature only be used in split screen if the players were using something like the Xbox controller keyboard mentioned by MechanicalWood above.
To address the problems with the Microsoft filters... I guess I'm not understanding why this is a major issue... it seems like it has to go through the filters every time it is read or even periodically throughout the game.... Since the text itself doesn't change until it is edited again... why doesn't it just do the filter check at the time of creation/edit, this should cause a huge drain on resources if it only did it's check once, and not have to do it multiple times throughout the game.
For the most part, I don't disagree with the workarounds you've mentioned. Switching to a plain straight text screen for 1/4 of most HD TVs should be able to yield 6 to 10 lines of legible text. I agree that the bigger issue is the interruption one in splitscreen mode, which the PC doesn't have to worry about. I don't think there is a facility within the game to only pause 1/4 of the screen at a time, but you would know more than I about what it might take, programming-wise, to insert one. It would, of course, have to work in both online and offline modes.
However, the OP was suggesting that the book page be inserted in an item frame, which would mean that the game would not be switching over to a text screen to be read, but would be limited to the normal visual boundaries of the item frame (WAAY too small for text, IMO). The OP also suggested that a larger font for signs would solve the problem for signs, and I was merely pointing out that this would result in the loss of some of the amount of text that can be put on a sign currently (which is currently 4 lines at 15 characters). If they increase the size of the font, we would wind up with, say, 3 lines at 10 characters max on a sign (the current resolution of the game being what it is and unchanged).
Although the game demands HD to play splitscreen, it also must be playable in single player on SD TVs... and some of those are pretty small (even without the screen being quartered). Many people economize by hooking up their children's Xboxes to old SD TVs, so it is still something the company needs to consider when producing Xbox 360 games.
The filtering, I suspect, is something that 4J has little control over (Microsoft's baby).
Similarly, the company cannot logically force everyone to run out and buy a typepad... so the ability to use the type screen designed for the regular controller must remain within the programming of the game... and that, as I understand it, it also a built-in Microsoft feature being accessed by the game. My understanding is that, by default, that screen displays over the entire TV surface regardless of whether or not the game (any game) is at that time in splitscreen mode)... and may also be something that 4J has little control over.
gavin uses it. it's a lot easier to manipulate the words on the sign. you dont have to try over and over to line everything up.
I agree with everything that you said...(so no real point in re-posting all of it)... not sure about the onscreen keyboard though... I know that is there by design, but I believe it can be over ridden should the game program be designed to do so... but that would require making a new onscreen text interface just for split screen mode, and I doubt that is very high on 4Js priority list at the moment.
In order to not pause the game for other players, you might have to have the player that is typing 'phase out' of the game while typing... maybe go invisible to MOBs as per creative mode, or just not take any additional damage and disable creeper explosions within range of the player until done editing/typing (unless other players are present, ie, creeper can't lock to explode on a player that is currently editing text, but could hang around and wait indefinitely until the player is done typing).
This would allow the rest of the game to remain 'in play' for other players, without being too 'broken' or exploitable by players who try and escape hostilities.
There might be a way to get around the frequent Microsoft filtering issue, by scanning once when entering/editing/saving text, but saving it as a graphic in game instead of as active text in the game. Would still have to save the original text for editing purposes later if that feature is allowed.
Of course there may be MS rules / red tape to deal with on that end still...
Luckily for me my friend is giving me one.. But I wasn't going to consider getting one at all. They're just too expensive I think.
I love to draw