Both Hostile and Passive MOB's are frequently being put in areas where they cannot move, and in the case of Passive MOBs, they can't despawn.
Specifically, steep hill/mountain sides, cliff areas, and sometimes inside villager houses that don't have adequate lighting.
The Basic rule for Passive MOB despawning on the 360 (as I understand it) is that if a Passive MOB cannot move more than 20 blocks away from their current position, they won't despawn. This allows players to build animal pens to contain their farm animals. (the logic being that if they have at least a 20 block path from them, they can likely achieve their freedom and escape, but if not, consider them a penned farm animal).
Unfortunately, there is nothing to prevent a MOB from spawning into an area where they are effectively trapped, and even into areas that are supposed to be reasonably safe for villagers during the night time. (I've seen many Zombies, skeletons, spiders and such that spawned inside village houses that did not have adequate lighting on the inside).
In my mind, MOB spawning is a strategy used to get MOBs into an area, and is not supposed to represent teleportation nor spontaneous creation... that's just what tends to happen anyway when dealing with MOB spawning in general. to that effect, if the MOB did not have a clear (reasonable) path to get to a specific point, then why would the game allow it to spawn in that location?
I propose implementing the same despawn rule for passive MOBs as for a spawning condition for all land based MOBs in general. In that if a MOB can not travel more than 20 blocks from location X, Y, Z, then do not spawn in that location.
I further propose a modification to the Despawn Rule for Passive MOBs to effectively use Ocelot pathing for the 20 block despawn condition (if there is a cliff edge present... they will go over it and kill themselves when you are far enough away and aren't looking). This would help to alleviate MOB's that trap themselves against a sheer drop... but may not really be necessary if at least they don't spawn in precarious positions in the first place.
This basically insures that a MOB can only spawn in an area where it is also able to despawn from, and is reiterated from the following thread:
The 'passive MOBs won't despawn if they can't move more then 20 blocks in a direction' was put in so that penned animals for farms won't despawn.
Personally, I'm not a fan of being forced to tag all my penned animals, or not being able to veture much past 120 blocks from them.
Modifying the passive despawn algorithm to allow 20 block pathing while ignoring precarious drops (ie, ocelot or chicken pathing) for animals would take care of the animals stuck on cliff faces or steep slopes after awhile as players venture away from them and back again.
What I am saying won't work is the same rule that stops them from despairing; for spawning will not work. You see if you had that kind of spawning behavior, there would be hardly any spawns at all, which would bring back what happened a while back where people complained the animals were not spawning. Animals spawn in jungles sometimes, but with this they would not spawn at all. Maybe ocelots would on occasion, as they appear to have a different spawn behavior, but no passive would spawn much there. Same goes for mountains half the time.
Sure it wouldn't be to the degree of what originally happened, but it would be a bit problematic. What would be better would be a 2x2 or a 3x3 check in order to spawn. Then maybe it might cut at least most the passives spawning on the 1x1 down....
I don't see why it wouldn't work... There are far more areas where MOB's can move more than 20 blocks than there are areas where they can't.
It would just prevent MOB's from spawning inside most buildings, penned/fenced areas, and on steep hillsides that they cannot climb/get down from. It would leave their spawn cap alone, which would move a greater density of MOBs in flatter/open areas and fewer spawns in largely inaccessible areas.
But if it were an issue, the developers could reduce the passive MOB Spawn Cycle to occur more frequently.... I think it is currently once every 20 seconds or once every 400 game ticks (at least, it appears to be on the PC)?
PSN:
Junokaii (although I'd recommend not adding me because I'm on literally like... once every month or two)
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Yes... Please... I can't stand seeing animals become a zit on my beautiful mountain side. Or spawning somewhere in the walls somewhere in my mountain house that requires me to tear up the walls and the floors and go on an adventure to find where they spawn. Most of the time, it is because they literally spawn in an area that is big enough to fit them, but not enough to even move (animals) or a one block wide by two block high space with a zombie or skeleton in it.. It's very annoying
Though I have an animal in one spot that's been there since I started the world... I just left him there because It's just sort of funny.
Why don't you just build a system with pistons to flood the mountain when you press a button?
Why not completely overlook the point of this topic?
One problem I see is that the mobs can walk into places where they'll be stuck, being ledges and caves.
I was thinking of something like "If mob A doesn't move X blocks in Y minutes, a despawn will occur."
This formula would prevent cliff-dwellers while keeping penned animals relatively safe if the numbers were filled in appropriately.
Why not completely overlook the point of this topic?
One problem I see is that the mobs can walk into places where they'll be stuck, being ledges and caves.
I was thinking of something like "If mob A doesn't move X blocks in Y minutes, a despawn will occur."
This formula would prevent cliff-dwellers while keeping penned animals relatively safe if the numbers were filled in appropriately.
I see 2 problems with this, the first is if an animal is on a 3 block ledge, or can at least move between 2 blocks, then they won't tend to despawn, the second is that players may pen up animals in tight areas which immobilize those animals, in which case, animals would start despawning from within their pens.
Using Ocelot pathing would resolve any cliff dwellers (cat's aren't afraid of heights... and take no falling damage), but there would still be the fell into a pit/cave that has dimensions of less than 20 blocks from end to end.... but your rule wouldn't kick in unless the MOB was virtually immobilized (if it moves X blocks in Y minutes, it won't despawn)
I have a much simpler solution. In order for an animal to not despawn, it must have been fed by a player at least once or have been spawned as a result of breeding. This would enable players to even keep "free-range" animals (unpenned) if they so wish or pen them in any-sized enclosure. All other animals and mobs may despawn using the current distances rules (i.e. mobs within 32 blocks of the player don't despawn and mobs outside that radius may spontaneously despawn) so that new mobs can spawn around the player.
I have a much simpler solution. In order for an animal to not despawn, it must have been fed by a player at least once or have been spawned as a result of breeding. This would enable players to even keep "free-range" animals (unpenned) if they so wish or pen them in any-sized enclosure. All other animals and mobs may despawn using the current distances rules (i.e. mobs within 32 blocks of the player don't despawn and mobs outside that radius may spontaneously despawn) so that new mobs can spawn around the player.
Sort of like 'tagging' them as you would be able to do if/when the Anvil gets implemented, only have it be automatically done on the back end.... interesting idea. Truthfully, I can't see a down-side to this idea.
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Adding from another thread because I thought the discussion relevant:
Passive mobs really require a kinda totally unique approach to handling on the xbox, but only on new spawns imho. Basically on the PC 1 in every 10 chunks will contain a group of passive animals, which will NOT despawn, and count again the animal population, once a certain population is reached no new generated mobs will result in new chunks. Both wolves and ocelots count against this population, unless they are aggressive and thus are treated as a hostile mob and will despawn governed by the same rules as hostile mobs. Durring chunk generation passive mobs can spawn on just about any non transparent block, ie NOT just grass.
At first animals on the 360 were willing to take great plunges and would be found at the bottom of caves and ravines, so I can could understand the willingness to implement despawning routines. However now passive mobs arn't so willing to take fall damage and or wander into caves or dark areas. Anyhow You are correct Greg in that every 400 game ticks a passive mob can spawn, and this is where the xbox version begins to encounter issues. On the PC its mostly based on loaded chunks around the player which averages to around 17x17 chunks, which usually results in new animal spawns about 1x every hour to 5 to 6 hours depending. You are kinda punished on the PC for killing off all your animals, and its usally faster to visit new chunks to find animals rather then waiting for new ones to spawn.
Now the issue is that the xbox version keeps all chunks loaded and the more chunks loaded the more likely new animals will spawn, providing the cap hasn't been reached already. In fact try this, create a new world fly around in creative to load a good number of chunks, then return to a fairly flat area and fly up about 40 blocks or so from the ground, watch how often animals will spawn and despawn. This 'cycling' has to use a fair bit of cpu time and imho could be spent better elsewhere. I think 4j needs to 'drop' the chunks loaded constant go go strickly with a constant of 17x17 around a given player, as well as implement no-despawn on animals, but thats just my two cents worth.
The current situation on Xbox seemed to arise from something stupid that 4J did way back in TU5 I think it was. They lowered the spawn rate of animals which would have made sense if breeding was also in, but they didn't bring breeding in. Made the game unplayable. In reaction to the hate, 4J raised the spawn rate but also brought breeding in, and so it stayed ever since.
Ideally the spawn rate would be lowered again, which would make capturing and breeding animals a fun part of the early game.
PSN:
Junokaii (although I'd recommend not adding me because I'm on literally like... once every month or two)
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They LOWERED the spawn rate for the xbox??? Man... am I ever glad I don't play PC now... I think the spawn rate on xbox is a nightmare.. I can't imagine the PC now....
Some history - When persistent farm animals were first introduced on the Xbox 360 Edition,there was no ability to breed them and since they never despawned and there were numerous places they could get trapped where the player could not readily see or access them, there were extreme shortages of animals. The animals also had an annoying habit of swimming out to sea and could be found collected in large groups in deep water. So, bowing to the complaints, 4J increased the spawn rate/limit of animals... and then there were complaints of there being far too many of them on many maps. So then they brought in this hybrid system where animals that could move more than 20 blocks could despawn, but those that could not move about that much would not despawn. This worked reasonably OK until the jungles were introduced... and now too many animals are spawning and getting trapped in small spaces... and the player has to go hunting for them and kill them before new animals can spawn or be bred.. With the relatively low total limit of animals, this issue is again creating apparently shortages on some maps.
The PC is a whole different matter in that the maps are large enough that players can usually explore a fresh area of the map to generate more animals if need be. The Xbox clearly needs a different solution (see my previous post for my favored one).
A workaround you can use when your animal population that is unable to despawn is largely centered around one area of the map (say, your home base)... go to the opposite corner of the map and save and exit your game. Reload so that you spawn in/enter the map at that distant corner and then stand around there until you see some animals spawning around you. Continue to allow them to spawn until they pretty well max out in that distant area (killing what you need and allowing to respawn). Then walk back to the are where the animal problem was (i.e. in example - your home base). Because the distant area of the map was loaded first and the max animal limit was reached there, you will probably note that some of the animals around your home base have despawned as well. (Note: it is random whether it will be the trapped wild animals that despawn or the ones in your pens. Now, save and exit the world and reload so that you respawn in this (home base) area of the map. (This causes any untrapped animals in the distant area to despawn... usually enabling you to breed to recoup any lost farm animals.
Some history - When persistent farm animals were first introduced on the Xbox 360 Edition,there was no ability to breed them and since they never despawned and there were numerous places they could get trapped where the player could not readily see or access them, there were extreme shortages of animals. The animals also had an annoying habit of swimming out to sea and could be found collected in large groups in deep water. So, bowing to the complaints, 4J increased the spawn rate/limit of animals... and then there were complaints of there being far too many of them on many maps. So then they brought in this hybrid system where animals that could move more than 20 blocks could despawn, but those that could not move about that much would not despawn. This worked reasonably OK until the jungles were introduced... and now too many animals are spawning and getting trapped in small spaces... and the player has to go hunting for them and kill them before new animals can spawn or be bred.. With the relatively low total limit of animals, this issue is again creating apparently shortages on some maps.
The PC is a whole different matter in that the maps are large enough that players can usually explore a fresh area of the map to generate more animals if need be. The Xbox clearly needs a different solution (see my previous post for my favored one).
A workaround you can use when your animal population that is unable to despawn is largely centered around one area of the map (say, your home base)... go to the opposite corner of the map and save and exit your game. Reload so that you spawn in/enter the map at that distant corner and then stand around there until you see some animals spawning around you. Continue to allow them to spawn until they pretty well max out in that distant area (killing what you need and allowing to respawn). Then walk back to the are where the animal problem was (i.e. in example - your home base). Because the distant area of the map was loaded first and the max animal limit was reached there, you will probably note that some of the animals around your home base have despawned as well. (Note: it is random whether it will be the trapped wild animals that despawn or the ones in your pens. Now, save and exit the world and reload so that you respawn in this (home base) area of the map. (This causes any untrapped animals in the distant area to despawn... usually enabling you to breed to recoup any lost farm animals.
Specifically, steep hill/mountain sides, cliff areas, and sometimes inside villager houses that don't have adequate lighting.
The Basic rule for Passive MOB despawning on the 360 (as I understand it) is that if a Passive MOB cannot move more than 20 blocks away from their current position, they won't despawn. This allows players to build animal pens to contain their farm animals. (the logic being that if they have at least a 20 block path from them, they can likely achieve their freedom and escape, but if not, consider them a penned farm animal).
Unfortunately, there is nothing to prevent a MOB from spawning into an area where they are effectively trapped, and even into areas that are supposed to be reasonably safe for villagers during the night time. (I've seen many Zombies, skeletons, spiders and such that spawned inside village houses that did not have adequate lighting on the inside).
In my mind, MOB spawning is a strategy used to get MOBs into an area, and is not supposed to represent teleportation nor spontaneous creation... that's just what tends to happen anyway when dealing with MOB spawning in general. to that effect, if the MOB did not have a clear (reasonable) path to get to a specific point, then why would the game allow it to spawn in that location?
I propose implementing the same despawn rule for passive MOBs as for a spawning condition for all land based MOBs in general. In that if a MOB can not travel more than 20 blocks from location X, Y, Z, then do not spawn in that location.
I further propose a modification to the Despawn Rule for Passive MOBs to effectively use Ocelot pathing for the 20 block despawn condition (if there is a cliff edge present... they will go over it and kill themselves when you are far enough away and aren't looking). This would help to alleviate MOB's that trap themselves against a sheer drop... but may not really be necessary if at least they don't spawn in precarious positions in the first place.
This basically insures that a MOB can only spawn in an area where it is also able to despawn from, and is reiterated from the following thread:
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1338946-official-minecraft-twitter-feed-tu14-in-development-updated-14-jan-14/page__st__2900
Specifically:
Though I have an animal in one spot that's been there since I started the world... I just left him there because It's just sort of funny.
It's a cow, on a single block, in the sky. Legit.
So, you have my support on this one 1000%
Why not completely overlook the point of this topic?
One problem I see is that the mobs can walk into places where they'll be stuck, being ledges and caves.
I was thinking of something like "If mob A doesn't move X blocks in Y minutes, a despawn will occur."
This formula would prevent cliff-dwellers while keeping penned animals relatively safe if the numbers were filled in appropriately.
Stay fluffy~
I see 2 problems with this, the first is if an animal is on a 3 block ledge, or can at least move between 2 blocks, then they won't tend to despawn, the second is that players may pen up animals in tight areas which immobilize those animals, in which case, animals would start despawning from within their pens.
Using Ocelot pathing would resolve any cliff dwellers (cat's aren't afraid of heights... and take no falling damage), but there would still be the fell into a pit/cave that has dimensions of less than 20 blocks from end to end.... but your rule wouldn't kick in unless the MOB was virtually immobilized (if it moves X blocks in Y minutes, it won't despawn)
Or.... here's a thought.... we could suggest a reasonable fix to the spawning/despawning issues...
Sort of like 'tagging' them as you would be able to do if/when the Anvil gets implemented, only have it be automatically done on the back end.... interesting idea. Truthfully, I can't see a down-side to this idea.
==============
Adding from another thread because I thought the discussion relevant:
The PC is a whole different matter in that the maps are large enough that players can usually explore a fresh area of the map to generate more animals if need be. The Xbox clearly needs a different solution (see my previous post for my favored one).
A workaround you can use when your animal population that is unable to despawn is largely centered around one area of the map (say, your home base)... go to the opposite corner of the map and save and exit your game. Reload so that you spawn in/enter the map at that distant corner and then stand around there until you see some animals spawning around you. Continue to allow them to spawn until they pretty well max out in that distant area (killing what you need and allowing to respawn). Then walk back to the are where the animal problem was (i.e. in example - your home base). Because the distant area of the map was loaded first and the max animal limit was reached there, you will probably note that some of the animals around your home base have despawned as well. (Note: it is random whether it will be the trapped wild animals that despawn or the ones in your pens. Now, save and exit the world and reload so that you respawn in this (home base) area of the map. (This causes any untrapped animals in the distant area to despawn... usually enabling you to breed to recoup any lost farm animals.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1954364-option-to-turn-animals-off/
That's my solution xD
For me... Just no tinkering.. Just turn them off!! Lol
Never mind - misread your post.
No worries