I don't think so... you're forgetting that I play a lot of survival island seeds where there really aren't much in the way of ores near the surface in many parts of the map anyways and the upper levels of the underground tend to have A LOT of water flooding down on your head. A shortage of animals means that food is often in very short supply and the food bar is often below the regen mark also... and you start out with just a single tree and a couple of wheat seeds.
Exactly! You know the feeling you get on survival island when you really have to take it easy because you don't have a lot of food or supplies? Imagine that feeling lasting well into the point that you've even got yourself some potions. You have a little peace of mind knowing you can finally recover a bit, on the other hand, you also know that, given the tools and food you need to keep with you, you really can't carry enough potions that you can get a bit careless.
Without stackable food, the inclination to mass produce melons will probably diminish anyway. Bread (which you declared as useless) would be at least better than melons in an environment where you couldn't stack them. The only food I have ever brought mining with me in a stack larger than 16 is melons. Usually I'm making do with 6 or so bread (on survival island) or 2 or 3 steaks (not survival island).
I see where you're coming from here, I really do. I just feel like not allowing players to stack lower tier food is a bit overkill. 6 Pieces of bread was incredible back in the day when food directly restored health. But when you're dealing with mountainous terrain, winding caves, and panicked running from mobs, 6 bread isn't going to last you very long.
However, once enchanted armor is obtained, the game gets really easy for almost everyone - even if you have to go deeper to mine ores. Removing enchanted armor is not removing enchanting. Diddling around with what enchantments can combine with others (as you proposed) in just one dfficulty level of the game is really tedious programming.. and would not do enough to separate this mode from the others, IMO. It would really just encourage more the "exit with saving" behavior in order to get bragging rights to doing something harder without it actually being too much harder than the other modes. If you really want enchanted armor to stay, then I think XP should be at least 2X as hard to accumulate. Programming the mode to require twice as many orbs to go from level to level would be far easier than diddling about with limiting protection enchants with other enchants, etc.
Agreed on the XP being harder to obtain. But I stand firm with my enchanting suggestion. I don't feel enchanting would really make the game easier if it wasn't allowed to stack with similar level IV enchants. The idea here is that enchanting can give you a little extra inurance without turning you into a tank. You still might be tanky with diamond armor even with low level enchants, but that's balanced by the fact that you can no longer obtain diamonds so easily by tunneling. You have to brave the caves. By severely diminishing, if not outright eliminating, the chance ores have to spawn embedded in rock, and not exposed to a cave wall, you're making diamonds significantly more rare. You have to ask yourself if expensive armor is really where you want to put your precious diamonds at.
What if Fortune didn't work on diamonds?
Exactly! You know the feeling you get on survival island when you really have to take it easy because you don't have a lot of food or supplies? Imagine that feeling lasting well into the point that you've even got yourself some potions. You have a little peace of mind knowing you can finally recover a bit, on the other hand, you also know that, given the tools and food you need to keep with you, you really can't carry enough potions that you can get a bit careless.
I see where you're coming from here, I really do. I just feel like not allowing players to stack lower tier food is a bit overkill. 6 Pieces of bread was incredible back in the day when food directly restored health. But when you're dealing with mountainous terrain, winding caves, and panicked running from mobs, 6 bread isn't going to last you very long.
Agreed on the XP being harder to obtain. But I stand firm with my enchanting suggestion. I don't feel enchanting would really make the game easier if it wasn't allowed to stack with similar level IV enchants. The idea here is that enchanting can give you a little extra inurance without turning you into a tank. You still might be tanky with diamond armor even with low level enchants, but that's balanced by the fact that you can no longer obtain diamonds so easily by tunneling. You have to brave the caves. By severely diminishing, if not outright eliminating, the chance ores have to spawn embedded in rock, and not exposed to a cave wall, you're making diamonds significantly more rare. You have to ask yourself if expensive armor is really where you want to put your precious diamonds at.
What if Fortune didn't work on diamonds?
Summing this back up to my original point/concern... rather than breaking the consistent terrain generation in the game and complex diddling with things like the crafting interface and the enchanting... simpler changes like making XP harder to accumulate and making food unstackable would have much the same effect on making life tougher in an "Die Hard" mode without compromising the game's seed integrity and further encouraging manipulations of saves to gain specific enchantments. Perhaps another strategy would be to disable the typing in of the seed string in this mode completely - leaving the player no choice but too accept random seed generation. Currently, random seeds seem to be geared to generate as rather balanced multiple-biome worlds; but perhaps if this sort of "override" does exist, it wouldn't take too much to reverse the override such that "Die Hard" mode more frequently generates unbalanced worlds (like survival islands)... creating your "ore" effect without extensively manipulating individual ore generating parameters just for this one difficulty level.
ETA: Further on the enchanting - IF one takes the step to force a save every time someone enchants, then whether or not Protection IV combines with X or Y or not wouldn't matter so much. It would be a rare occurrence. The people now who have sets of Protection IV armour with feather falling boots and respirationa and aqua infinity helmuts are most likely people who have made several attempts (using exit without saving) to enchant the same item over and over again until their desired "number" finally came in.
You know for the enchanting of armor and stuff they should just slightly nerf all the protection enchants so they are't that powerful but you still have something,and for the exit without saving thing,i think they should just completely remove from this gamemode.
You know for the enchanting of armor and stuff they should just slightly nerf all the protection enchants so they are't that powerful but you still have something,and for the exit without saving thing,i think they should just completely remove from this gamemode.
Hey, I'm with you on this last part... but cue all those who use "exit without saving" as a protection against griefing. I made the suggestion awhile back to eliminate "exit without saving" from the gamecode... and got several forum members severely ticked off at me. I think Chick's suggestion about enchanting automatically kicking off an autosave (even if autosave is turned off) would work much better... although it would still leave world's vulnerable to griefers who would then grief and then immediately enchant something/anything to just kick off the save and lock in the damage to the server.
I heard that Notch was planning making an ultra hardcore mode that if you died, your premium status was revoked temporarily. I heard that it was scrapped.
I heard that Notch was planning making an ultra hardcore mode that if you died, your premium status was revoked temporarily. I heard that it was scrapped.
Summing this back up to my original point/concern... rather than breaking the consistent terrain generation in the game and complex diddling with things like the crafting interface and the enchanting... simpler changes like making XP harder to accumulate and making food unstackable would have much the same effect on making life tougher in an "Die Hard" mode without compromising the game's seed integrity and further encouraging manipulations of saves to gain specific enchantments. Perhaps another strategy would be to disable the typing in of the seed string in this mode completely - leaving the player no choice but too accept random seed generation. Currently, random seeds seem to be geared to generate as rather balanced multiple-biome worlds; but perhaps if this sort of "override" does exist, it wouldn't take too much to reverse the override such that "Die Hard" mode more frequently generates unbalanced worlds (like survival islands)... creating your "ore" effect without extensively manipulating individual ore generating parameters just for this one difficulty level.
ETA: Further on the enchanting - IF one takes the step to force a save every time someone enchants, then whether or not Protection IV combines with X or Y or not wouldn't matter so much. It would be a rare occurrence. The people now who have sets of Protection IV armour with feather falling boots and respirationa and aqua infinity helmuts are most likely people who have made several attempts (using exit without saving) to enchant the same item over and over again until their desired "number" finally came in.
The thing about making XP harder to get as the sole solution to increasing difficulty is that it alone doesn't really increase the difficulty at all. It just increases the tediousness of grinding for that higher level that you desire. To paraphrase Egoraptor's best quote concerning game design, what's the difference a) between getting the gear you need too advance, using your cunning to overcome perilous challenges with what you have, and collecting a payoff so that you can continue, and b> grinding monsters until you can afford what you want? Answer: about 4 hours.
Making XP harder to get is a good step, but if you don't combine it with enchanting nerfs or some other means of making enchanting not OP, you're not really increasing the difficulty. You're just making the game a chore. Make XP hard to get and nerf higher level enchants, and suddenly you have a system where lower level enchants look attractive, and a system where getting a max enchant on a piece of equipment makes you feel accomplished.
I'm not sure why you're so opposed to the idea that ore spawn rates would be different in a game mode that locks out use of other game modes/difficulties in that map. Though i do like the idea of forcing the player to accept a random seed for the game mode.
heheh some joke. There should be more dungeons. Spiders should be replaced with cave spiders all together. We are getting a world twice as high, maybe with this option, the world is twice as deep instead, to make it more of a challenge to get diamonds. Respawning should be disabled, but deleting the world is not mandatory. Just so you have to load the last time it saved.
heheh some joke. There should be more dungeons. Spiders should be replaced with cave spiders all together. We are getting a world twice as high, maybe with this option, the world is twice as deep instead, to make it more of a challenge to get diamonds. Respawning should be disabled, but deleting the world is not mandatory. Just so you have to load the last time it saved.
But then death would carry no consequence. You'd respawn with everything you had, and anything you gained would be put back ready for you to collect again.
Natural cave spider spawns, however... mua ha haaaa, my good sir.
I'm not sure why you're so opposed to the idea that ore spawn rates would be different in a game mode that locks out use of other game modes/difficulties in that map. Though i do like the idea of forcing the player to accept a random seed for the game mode.
Because the seed itself is the current fundamental base building block of terrain generation (of which ore generation is an integral part). If, say, a person finds a great seed while playing this mode, he should be able to pass the seed string along and I should be able to type it into the seed slot and get the same stuff. We have a whole section here devoted to that principle of being able to share seeds. I'd like to at least have that ability until the day when we can freely share specific maps with each other.
Finding ore at level 59 vs. level 12 is not that much more difficult. As I said, control of a specific area of cave (which is bounded by stone at least on some sides) is actually far easier than preventing attacks from various sides above-ground. All you have to do to get down to a lower layer is dig a fresh staircase and light it as you go. Then tunnel your way until you break into the lower end of a cave. With your system, you will probably not find many ores in your tunnels, but you won't have to. When you break into a cave, run a short distance from your tunnel entrance and light things up then block at section off from that direction. You can then explore and mine away to your heart's content in your safe section of the cave until you're done collecting ores (which with your system should be more plentiful there in the cave walls than they are now.)
Also, it was when 4J started mucking about with the chest generation in the tutorial world (to make it so that some of the chests would not generate if you went into peaceful mode) is when we started having issues with things being in on some maps in one mode and not in others. It was also about the same time that we have blaze spawners appearing in creative mode that did not show up in survival mode. We still have lots of chest bugs, structures bugs, and terrain generation bugs even when the whole thing is supposed to generate consistently. I think changing the ore generation from difficulty level to difficulty level will only further exacerbate these issues.
You don't respawn. You have to load the last save. That could have been an hour ago. You can lose an hour's progress.
That would be equal to an exit without saving in current terminology. It would only be an hour ago if you're too lazy or careless to regularly save your work and/or won't allow the game to autosave at frequent intervals.
But you're not changing the terrain generation, only the ore spawning rates. The difference between a seed in Legacy and a seed on normal difficulties is that, the caves are the same, the surface terrain is the same, the fortresses and the strongholds and the villages are the same, it's just that ores won't be where you expect them to be between Legacy and other difficulties.
And I don't see why "it could introduce bugs" should discourage them adding a feature. Adding anything can potentially introduce bugs. Bugs can be fixed.
But you're not changing the terrain generation, only the ore spawning rates. The difference between a seed in Legacy and a seed on normal difficulties is that, the caves are the same, the surface terrain is the same, the fortresses and the strongholds and the villages are the same, it's just that ores won't be where you expect them to be between Legacy and other difficulties.
And I don't see why "it could introduce bugs" should discourage them adding a feature. Adding anything can potentially introduce bugs. Bugs can be fixed.
OK, convince me that ore generation is not tied to the seed string. Convince me that the content of chests currently found in worlds is also not tied to the seed string. LIKE terrain generation, these items are tied to the seed string. If the seed based systems in the game are not consistent, you don't have consistent seeds (which is what I'm trying to preserve) XYZ seed string should generate the same way in all modes and all difficulty levels or there is no point in having seed strings at all.
Convince me that there are no bugs in the terrain generation as it now stands and/or that those bugs have been corrected. (Perhaps they haven't been corrected because they are not really correctable?)
Then let's contemplate a further itineration - IF, let's say, Tamorr's suggestion of being able to specify biome percentages is viable. I envision that this would require the system to reverse calculate a seed string that "fits" the criteria specified by the user. Now, it could be that the game could calculate seeds strings that would tend to put ores at lower levels if the user specified that like a "biome choice"; but then the seed string the system calculates for that, I think, should generate consistently if that selection process is bypassed by the user by just typing in a seed string - effectively asking the system for a duplicate of whatever seed that string represents (including terrain, ores, biomes, dungeons, chests, etc.) and regardless of difficulty level the player plans to play. IF the "Legacy" mode disabled typing in a seed string (such that the game would always reverse calculate the seed string based on the mode criteria) and IF a peaceful player happened to want a seed with ores only lower down, they could get one by just typing in the seed string generated for a Legacy mode map. In this way, BOTH could be accommodated without compromising the consistency of what a seed string represents.
ETA: So, you see, I'm not against Legacy have ores lower down (although I don't think it's really tougher to play) - I'm just trying to work out a way where the same seed string will generate the same map in all respects and in all modes reliably.
Also, Legacy sort of brings up images of old people doing their family history (it's the name of a family history program some friends of mine use). How about Kamikaze Mode? or Samarai Mode? (Perhaps as a bonus, this could be the one mode where Chain Mail would be available in Survival?)
For a mode that you have to be either really brave.. or depravingly insane to play.. i would sugget (Sado) Masochism mode. because playing on this mode you pretty much Begging to get Shot up, blown up, or otherwise Killed
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Retired StaffExactly! You know the feeling you get on survival island when you really have to take it easy because you don't have a lot of food or supplies? Imagine that feeling lasting well into the point that you've even got yourself some potions. You have a little peace of mind knowing you can finally recover a bit, on the other hand, you also know that, given the tools and food you need to keep with you, you really can't carry enough potions that you can get a bit careless.
I see where you're coming from here, I really do. I just feel like not allowing players to stack lower tier food is a bit overkill. 6 Pieces of bread was incredible back in the day when food directly restored health. But when you're dealing with mountainous terrain, winding caves, and panicked running from mobs, 6 bread isn't going to last you very long.
Agreed on the XP being harder to obtain. But I stand firm with my enchanting suggestion. I don't feel enchanting would really make the game easier if it wasn't allowed to stack with similar level IV enchants. The idea here is that enchanting can give you a little extra inurance without turning you into a tank. You still might be tanky with diamond armor even with low level enchants, but that's balanced by the fact that you can no longer obtain diamonds so easily by tunneling. You have to brave the caves. By severely diminishing, if not outright eliminating, the chance ores have to spawn embedded in rock, and not exposed to a cave wall, you're making diamonds significantly more rare. You have to ask yourself if expensive armor is really where you want to put your precious diamonds at.
What if Fortune didn't work on diamonds?
Keep yourself up to date with the Minecraft Forum rules!
Summing this back up to my original point/concern... rather than breaking the consistent terrain generation in the game and complex diddling with things like the crafting interface and the enchanting... simpler changes like making XP harder to accumulate and making food unstackable would have much the same effect on making life tougher in an "Die Hard" mode without compromising the game's seed integrity and further encouraging manipulations of saves to gain specific enchantments. Perhaps another strategy would be to disable the typing in of the seed string in this mode completely - leaving the player no choice but too accept random seed generation. Currently, random seeds seem to be geared to generate as rather balanced multiple-biome worlds; but perhaps if this sort of "override" does exist, it wouldn't take too much to reverse the override such that "Die Hard" mode more frequently generates unbalanced worlds (like survival islands)... creating your "ore" effect without extensively manipulating individual ore generating parameters just for this one difficulty level.
ETA: Further on the enchanting - IF one takes the step to force a save every time someone enchants, then whether or not Protection IV combines with X or Y or not wouldn't matter so much. It would be a rare occurrence. The people now who have sets of Protection IV armour with feather falling boots and respirationa and aqua infinity helmuts are most likely people who have made several attempts (using exit without saving) to enchant the same item over and over again until their desired "number" finally came in.
Hey, I'm with you on this last part... but cue all those who use "exit without saving" as a protection against griefing. I made the suggestion awhile back to eliminate "exit without saving" from the gamecode... and got several forum members severely ticked off at me. I think Chick's suggestion about enchanting automatically kicking off an autosave (even if autosave is turned off) would work much better... although it would still leave world's vulnerable to griefers who would then grief and then immediately enchant something/anything to just kick off the save and lock in the damage to the server.
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Retired StaffSounds pretty generic ;(
That was just a joke.
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Retired StaffThe thing about making XP harder to get as the sole solution to increasing difficulty is that it alone doesn't really increase the difficulty at all. It just increases the tediousness of grinding for that higher level that you desire. To paraphrase Egoraptor's best quote concerning game design, what's the difference a) between getting the gear you need too advance, using your cunning to overcome perilous challenges with what you have, and collecting a payoff so that you can continue, and b> grinding monsters until you can afford what you want? Answer: about 4 hours.
Making XP harder to get is a good step, but if you don't combine it with enchanting nerfs or some other means of making enchanting not OP, you're not really increasing the difficulty. You're just making the game a chore. Make XP hard to get and nerf higher level enchants, and suddenly you have a system where lower level enchants look attractive, and a system where getting a max enchant on a piece of equipment makes you feel accomplished.
I'm not sure why you're so opposed to the idea that ore spawn rates would be different in a game mode that locks out use of other game modes/difficulties in that map. Though i do like the idea of forcing the player to accept a random seed for the game mode.
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Retired StaffBut then death would carry no consequence. You'd respawn with everything you had, and anything you gained would be put back ready for you to collect again.
Natural cave spider spawns, however... mua ha haaaa, my good sir.
Keep yourself up to date with the Minecraft Forum rules!
Because the seed itself is the current fundamental base building block of terrain generation (of which ore generation is an integral part). If, say, a person finds a great seed while playing this mode, he should be able to pass the seed string along and I should be able to type it into the seed slot and get the same stuff. We have a whole section here devoted to that principle of being able to share seeds. I'd like to at least have that ability until the day when we can freely share specific maps with each other.
Finding ore at level 59 vs. level 12 is not that much more difficult. As I said, control of a specific area of cave (which is bounded by stone at least on some sides) is actually far easier than preventing attacks from various sides above-ground. All you have to do to get down to a lower layer is dig a fresh staircase and light it as you go. Then tunnel your way until you break into the lower end of a cave. With your system, you will probably not find many ores in your tunnels, but you won't have to. When you break into a cave, run a short distance from your tunnel entrance and light things up then block at section off from that direction. You can then explore and mine away to your heart's content in your safe section of the cave until you're done collecting ores (which with your system should be more plentiful there in the cave walls than they are now.)
Also, it was when 4J started mucking about with the chest generation in the tutorial world (to make it so that some of the chests would not generate if you went into peaceful mode) is when we started having issues with things being in on some maps in one mode and not in others. It was also about the same time that we have blaze spawners appearing in creative mode that did not show up in survival mode. We still have lots of chest bugs, structures bugs, and terrain generation bugs even when the whole thing is supposed to generate consistently. I think changing the ore generation from difficulty level to difficulty level will only further exacerbate these issues.
That would be equal to an exit without saving in current terminology. It would only be an hour ago if you're too lazy or careless to regularly save your work and/or won't allow the game to autosave at frequent intervals.
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Retired StaffBut you're not changing the terrain generation, only the ore spawning rates. The difference between a seed in Legacy and a seed on normal difficulties is that, the caves are the same, the surface terrain is the same, the fortresses and the strongholds and the villages are the same, it's just that ores won't be where you expect them to be between Legacy and other difficulties.
And I don't see why "it could introduce bugs" should discourage them adding a feature. Adding anything can potentially introduce bugs. Bugs can be fixed.
Keep yourself up to date with the Minecraft Forum rules!
Sado-Masochist mode
OK, convince me that ore generation is not tied to the seed string. Convince me that the content of chests currently found in worlds is also not tied to the seed string. LIKE terrain generation, these items are tied to the seed string. If the seed based systems in the game are not consistent, you don't have consistent seeds (which is what I'm trying to preserve) XYZ seed string should generate the same way in all modes and all difficulty levels or there is no point in having seed strings at all.
Convince me that there are no bugs in the terrain generation as it now stands and/or that those bugs have been corrected. (Perhaps they haven't been corrected because they are not really correctable?)
Then let's contemplate a further itineration - IF, let's say, Tamorr's suggestion of being able to specify biome percentages is viable. I envision that this would require the system to reverse calculate a seed string that "fits" the criteria specified by the user. Now, it could be that the game could calculate seeds strings that would tend to put ores at lower levels if the user specified that like a "biome choice"; but then the seed string the system calculates for that, I think, should generate consistently if that selection process is bypassed by the user by just typing in a seed string - effectively asking the system for a duplicate of whatever seed that string represents (including terrain, ores, biomes, dungeons, chests, etc.) and regardless of difficulty level the player plans to play. IF the "Legacy" mode disabled typing in a seed string (such that the game would always reverse calculate the seed string based on the mode criteria) and IF a peaceful player happened to want a seed with ores only lower down, they could get one by just typing in the seed string generated for a Legacy mode map. In this way, BOTH could be accommodated without compromising the consistency of what a seed string represents.
ETA: So, you see, I'm not against Legacy have ores lower down (although I don't think it's really tougher to play) - I'm just trying to work out a way where the same seed string will generate the same map in all respects and in all modes reliably.
Also, Legacy sort of brings up images of old people doing their family history (it's the name of a family history program some friends of mine use). How about Kamikaze Mode? or Samarai Mode? (Perhaps as a bonus, this could be the one mode where Chain Mail would be available in Survival?)