My suggestion for MC XBLA 360 is do some actual testing before releasing an update and managers who when there are major game breakers don't let them ship. Not a wishlist, just 2 very related and very intertwined suggestion elements to achieve the same goal of a working TU release in the future.
There are no excuses for the game breaking issues we experienced with TU9. These are bugs that should have been caught in Unit test by the developer touching the code, by QA as part of the test plan for items being changed, and as part of the regression tests.
Proper and/or ANY testing or Managers saying Game Breaking bugs can not shipped would have stopped this:
March 11 to March 23 was bug fixing. That is 12 days. There is another 12 days between March 23rd and April 4th when this patch came out that at any point 4J could have stopped the release. They instead made a conscious, knowing, purposeful, and willing decision and choice to ship with these major bugs and/or no testing.
Update > Bugfix = Time
May 9th 2012 > June 15th 2012 = 1 month 5 days
July 13th 2012 > August 7th 2012 = 3 weeks 5 days
October 16th 2012 > November 15, 2012 = 1 month
December 19, 2012 > January 30, 2013 = 1 month, 2 weeks, 5 days
With that I again say there is ZERO reason for the game breaking bugs to have reached the end users.
Edit: Adding another quote because it is such a basic premise that is being missed.
You can't treat the console and the PC the same.
When one gets a badly broken PC update, you can just play the old version instead and even play with friends on that version still.
When a badly broken update hits the PC the patch is usually a day or 2. Not the current shortest patch for the 360 version of Minecraft which was 3 weeks 5 days.
When a badly broken update comes out on the PC there are usually modders that have put out mods within hours to fix it until an official fix comes out.
Give all those features to the console version of Minecraft, then you can treat it with the same ship it untested mentality. Otherwise the testing and implementation needs to be dramatically different. That should be such a simple concept. It is the basic premise of a console is that it is not the same as a PC and things are expected to just work.
For those saying whining, etc. Look at my Join Date. I've owned the PC version since before the 360 version existed. Look at my post history, have I ever once complained about bugs on the PC version. No, not even game breakers, because of the very fact the PC and console are different. Heck, I've never even complained about the 360 before TU9.
How would 4J fix something they never experienced? How are they supposed to know there are bugs with Silver profiles when they all likely have Gold Profiles?
Microsoft does not test for those type of things in CERT testing either. They're just looking for loopholes in the code that may allow people to damage the Xbox or Xbox Live. They're also looking for anything that could crash or harm your Xbox 360 when playing the game.
4J is a team of about 20 or so people and can only test so much. They then release the update to over 6 million people. Of course we're going to find more bugs than them. There are 6 million of us playing the game.
Both 4J and Microsoft have acknowledge that something is wrong with Silver Profiles and they're both working on getting it fixed as fast as possible. Patience is key. Too many people are impatient. The game isn't going anywhere and neither are you. Take a break for a while and play something else or go do something else.
How would 4J fix something they never experienced? How are they supposed to know there are bugs with Silver profiles when they all likely have Gold Profiles?
You can not possibly be serious with this.Is this a late and bad April fool's joke? They most certainly should have Non-Live and Silver accounts to test with. If they do not have such accounts then the Project Manager, QA Lead, and the entire QA team should all be fired for complete and total incompetence. Clearly you've no idea how testing should/does work in most software development.
I have all of those account types (multiples of each) and I barely develop. I am not on any current Xbox 360 test projects.
Microsoft does not test for those type of things in CERT testing either. They're just looking for loopholes in the code that may allow people to damage the Xbox or Xbox Live. They're also looking for anything that could crash or harm your Xbox 360 when playing the game.
I've already covered this in the main bug thread. First requirement for the BASIC requirements from the Certification requirements in the Microsoft Xbox 360 SDK help files:
Quote from Basic Requirements (BAS) - Technical Certification Requirements - Microsoft Xbox 360 SDK Documentation »
TCR # 001 BAS Game Stability
Requirement
On a functional console, the game must not enter an extended unresponsive state, cause unintentional loss of player data, crash, or cause an unintended reboot of the machine.
Intent
Console game players expect that console games just work. Games that crash or hang or lose player progress reflect poorly on the Xbox 360 experience.
The fact that prior saves do not load for non-live and silver accounts is a failure of the very first test and certification requirement of the BASIC requirements.
4J is a team of about 20 or so people and can only test so much. They then release the update to over 6 million people. Of course we're going to find more bugs than them. There are 6 million of us playing the game.
Except the bugs being found are items that were listed as changed. They should have been a part of any test plan for this TU since these items were changing. They are immediately visible as broken with the most basic of tests including loading the Tutorial world.
Both 4J and Microsoft have acknowledge that something is wrong with Silver Profiles and they're both working on getting it fixed as fast as possible. Patience is key. Too many people are impatient. The game isn't going anywhere and neither are you. Take a break for a while and play something else or go do something else.
Given that every one of these bugs can be found with the most basic of test plans in less than 10 minutes of testing the fact they started testing March 11th and did bug fixing to March 23rd then called it done and good enough for certification means there should be no excuse for these major near instantly visible game breaking bugs.
So in 12 days of bug fixing they never found these game breaking bugs that affect every world (not even covering non-game breakers {like the dispenser bug which can be found in 2 dispense attempts}). In the 12 days since they submitted the patch for certification you think they loaded the game 0 times as well and didn't experience any of these bugs? This was a clear decision to ship with major bugs and/or ZERO testing. Your contention is that in 24 days they did not once find these bugs. That is a really poor test team and set of test plans given the listed changes. That or a very bad management decision to just ship it.
Be it bad testing and/or bad management, that is what this suggestion would like fixed. Whichever part of the process there that failed to do their job correctly and prevent a broken release.
Im sure with the amount of visceral responses TU9 has generated 4J will be doing a better job at preventing another one of these debacles. Expect a longer wait-time between updates.
Im sure with the amount of visceral responses TU9 has generated 4J will be doing a better job at preventing another one of these debacles. Expect a longer wait-time between updates.
One can only hope that such will be the case about future updates getting better blockage when there are game breakers. A longer wait that results in a working product is much preferred to a longish wait, a broken product while more waiting, to eventually reach near the same end point. It also results in a much higher level of consumer confidence which results in more revenue overall. Eroding consumer confidence and leaving them with a broken product for any period of time is not a good long term model.
How many of these bugs are actually game breakers? The only game breaker is the Silver account failure but 4J was quick to tell us about a workaround that should be acceptable for Silver account users while they fix this bug.
And the lightning bug? I've been playing Minecraft quite a bit since TU9 released and it's far from a game breaking bug. It's a minor annoyance that I can fix easily. I've seen dark squares and unless I plan to mine or need that to be visible it's a "meh" issue. If I do need to do something in that area then I can quickly and easily fix it myself.
Yes, the Silver issue is a bad one, but I can see how it was an oversight. Can you imagine all the bugs they did fix in the month that they were bug fixing? All the crashes and glitches and everything that inevitably came with the End. This is a 20 man team that can only do so much in the time. Sure, they could of taken another month, even two, to get the product out relatively bug-free. But how ed would the community of been? Have been waiting 5 months for TU9?
How many of these bugs are actually game breakers? The only game breaker is the Silver account failure but 4J was quick to tell us about a workaround that should be acceptable for Silver account users while they fix this bug.
Doesn't help for Non-Live (NOT Silver, Not Gold) accounts -- The exact target market for the disc based release.
Would I have rather waited another month and gotten the release we will be getting (estimate) then instead of getting this broken one now and having to wait in that state? Unequivocally, yes.
Doesn't help for Non-Live (NOT Silver, Not Gold) accounts -- The exact target market for the disc based release.
Would I have rather waited another month and gotten the release we will be getting (estimate) then instead of getting this broken one now and having to wait in that state? Unequivocally, yes.
Maybe you. But if you were paying attention pre-TU9 then you would of noticed that the 6 million+ Minecrafters were practically bleeding for the TU9 release thus they pushed it out. They had to announce more than once about TU9 pre-release which means they were being bogged down with "When is TU9 being released" questions, even this forum got asked that quite a few times despite there being a rule about that.
The disk release would serve people with no internet at all, not silver. You can still download games with Silver, you can still access the Xbox Live Marketplace
Maybe you. But if you were paying attention pre-TU9 then you would of noticed that the 6 million+ Minecrafters were practically bleeding for the TU9 release thus they pushed it out. They had to announce more than once about TU9 pre-release which means they were being bogged down with "When is TU9 being released" questions, even this forum got asked that quite a few times despite there being a rule about that.
The disk release would serve people with no internet at all, not silver. You can still download games with Silver, you can still access the Xbox Live Marketplace
And now they have people screaming for the fixes which means basically the same end point except a broken game in between. Bad business decision. Much greater feelings of bad blood and distrust.
Exactly. Non-Live (NO XBOX LIVE) can not load old saves at all, if the internet is connected to the Xbox or not does not matter. You do know you can create those kinds of accounts even now. Even on a 360 that does connect to Xbox Live you can create such accounts; as many households with families do.
Really? I aint heard anyone whine so much about bugs, its a video game, calm down, they are working on fixing it as we speak, also, a Non live account can be converted to a silver account just by signing up for xbox live, witch will get you 1 free month of gold too so quit bellyaching, they have their entire crew working on it they will have it fixed as soon as they can, as for the lighting, it does not affect mob spawning so it is not game breaking, just put a torch up and knock it off a couple times, its caused by the lighting not updating properly so a forced lighting update will usually fix it, a temporary fix for the non live accounts not being able to load, start a new world and it will work fine, I just tested this myself in the middle of this post, while connected to the internet, not sure if that's a factor or not.
Really? I aint heard anyone whine so much about bugs, its a video game, calm down, they are working on fixing it as we speak
You seem to be missing the very point of this suggestion is to stop broken releases from reaching the public. You seem to be acting like we have all the same options as the PC. You seem to be missing that these aren't bugs that required extensive testing.
This was entirely preventable. There was no excuse for such a broken release to reach the public.
As my other suggestion on this very forum will show I'm not even blocked. I'm fully able to use and run TU8 or TU9 at will (as long as I stay off live or decline the update and disconnect when USB_1 is plugged in).
I've not gone on about or mentioned any minor bugs except as further examples of lack of testing. My purpose with this suggestion is to prevent future TU9 like releases.
In the old days there wasn't as many bugs because people had to make sure the game was golden because they couldn't send out a patch because the internet wasn't around. The internet has made game developers lazy, "oh theres a bug oh well, we'll fix it with a patch. I want to have a game that doesn't have 1,000 bugs. I played 5 hrs yesterday on minecraft and when I went to save it it froze and I lost everything. Come on the reason other people are ok with bugs are that since they have been alive there has always been tons of bugs in games. Please fix minecraft and all the bugs not just the major one, or how about the mined block reappearing glitch, all they did to fix it was make the block invisible, thats a very poor way to fix a glitch.
I completely agree with the OP. However I doubt that this thread will actually inspire 4J to do more thorough testing. You can expect TU10 and 11 to be just as buggy, if not more so.
And now they have people screaming for the fixes which means basically the same end point except a broken game in between. Bad business decision. Much greater feelings of bad blood and distrust.
Exactly. Non-Live (NO XBOX LIVE) can not load old saves at all, if the internet is connected to the Xbox or not does not matter. You do know you can create those kinds of accounts even now. Even on a 360 that does connect to Xbox Live you can create such accounts; as many households with families do.
Is the workaround for people with Silver accounts to disconnect the xbox from the internet? So the people who need the disk release, who do not have internet, have a natural workaround already because of their lack of internet. I'm talking about a 360 that has no connection to the internet and so thusly cannot connect to Xbox Live at all.
And no, you have a few people overreacting to a few minor bugs and one major bug. It's an equally bad business decision to keep an unfinished product unupdated for too long as people will loose interest in the game after too long. Do you really think they were just sitting on their buttox's since March 11 when they announced that they've started bug testing/ fixing? No, they were fixing more serious bugs that came into being probably thanks to the End. Can you even imagine the possibility of all the bugs a completely new world, new enemy, and new features can bring? Not to mention all the other new stuff that they added.
There are no excuses for the game breaking issues we experienced with TU9. These are bugs that should have been caught in Unit test by the developer touching the code, by QA as part of the test plan for items being changed, and as part of the regression tests.
Proper and/or ANY testing or Managers saying Game Breaking bugs can not shipped would have stopped this:
Edit: Adding another quote because it is such a basic premise that is being missed.
Microsoft does not test for those type of things in CERT testing either. They're just looking for loopholes in the code that may allow people to damage the Xbox or Xbox Live. They're also looking for anything that could crash or harm your Xbox 360 when playing the game.
4J is a team of about 20 or so people and can only test so much. They then release the update to over 6 million people. Of course we're going to find more bugs than them. There are 6 million of us playing the game.
Both 4J and Microsoft have acknowledge that something is wrong with Silver Profiles and they're both working on getting it fixed as fast as possible. Patience is key. Too many people are impatient. The game isn't going anywhere and neither are you. Take a break for a while and play something else or go do something else.
I have all of those account types (multiples of each) and I barely develop. I am not on any current Xbox 360 test projects.
I've already covered this in the main bug thread. First requirement for the BASIC requirements from the Certification requirements in the Microsoft Xbox 360 SDK help files:
The fact that prior saves do not load for non-live and silver accounts is a failure of the very first test and certification requirement of the BASIC requirements.
Except the bugs being found are items that were listed as changed. They should have been a part of any test plan for this TU since these items were changing. They are immediately visible as broken with the most basic of tests including loading the Tutorial world.
Given that every one of these bugs can be found with the most basic of test plans in less than 10 minutes of testing the fact they started testing March 11th and did bug fixing to March 23rd then called it done and good enough for certification means there should be no excuse for these major near instantly visible game breaking bugs.
So in 12 days of bug fixing they never found these game breaking bugs that affect every world (not even covering non-game breakers {like the dispenser bug which can be found in 2 dispense attempts}). In the 12 days since they submitted the patch for certification you think they loaded the game 0 times as well and didn't experience any of these bugs? This was a clear decision to ship with major bugs and/or ZERO testing. Your contention is that in 24 days they did not once find these bugs. That is a really poor test team and set of test plans given the listed changes. That or a very bad management decision to just ship it.
Be it bad testing and/or bad management, that is what this suggestion would like fixed. Whichever part of the process there that failed to do their job correctly and prevent a broken release.
.
I have many other games to play and many other things to do while they fix Minecraft. So it's not that big of a deal.
My point being that if this game had received proper testing and/or good management you could still be playing Minecraft in an enjoyable manner.
And the lightning bug? I've been playing Minecraft quite a bit since TU9 released and it's far from a game breaking bug. It's a minor annoyance that I can fix easily. I've seen dark squares and unless I plan to mine or need that to be visible it's a "meh" issue. If I do need to do something in that area then I can quickly and easily fix it myself.
Yes, the Silver issue is a bad one, but I can see how it was an oversight. Can you imagine all the bugs they did fix in the month that they were bug fixing? All the crashes and glitches and everything that inevitably came with the End. This is a 20 man team that can only do so much in the time. Sure, they could of taken another month, even two, to get the product out relatively bug-free. But how ed would the community of been? Have been waiting 5 months for TU9?
Would I have rather waited another month and gotten the release we will be getting (estimate) then instead of getting this broken one now and having to wait in that state? Unequivocally, yes.
Maybe you. But if you were paying attention pre-TU9 then you would of noticed that the 6 million+ Minecrafters were practically bleeding for the TU9 release thus they pushed it out. They had to announce more than once about TU9 pre-release which means they were being bogged down with "When is TU9 being released" questions, even this forum got asked that quite a few times despite there being a rule about that.
The disk release would serve people with no internet at all, not silver. You can still download games with Silver, you can still access the Xbox Live Marketplace
Exactly. Non-Live (NO XBOX LIVE) can not load old saves at all, if the internet is connected to the Xbox or not does not matter. You do know you can create those kinds of accounts even now. Even on a 360 that does connect to Xbox Live you can create such accounts; as many households with families do.
This was entirely preventable. There was no excuse for such a broken release to reach the public.
As my other suggestion on this very forum will show I'm not even blocked. I'm fully able to use and run TU8 or TU9 at will (as long as I stay off live or decline the update and disconnect when USB_1 is plugged in).
I've not gone on about or mentioned any minor bugs except as further examples of lack of testing. My purpose with this suggestion is to prevent future TU9 like releases.
Is the workaround for people with Silver accounts to disconnect the xbox from the internet? So the people who need the disk release, who do not have internet, have a natural workaround already because of their lack of internet. I'm talking about a 360 that has no connection to the internet and so thusly cannot connect to Xbox Live at all.
And no, you have a few people overreacting to a few minor bugs and one major bug. It's an equally bad business decision to keep an unfinished product unupdated for too long as people will loose interest in the game after too long. Do you really think they were just sitting on their buttox's since March 11 when they announced that they've started bug testing/ fixing? No, they were fixing more serious bugs that came into being probably thanks to the End. Can you even imagine the possibility of all the bugs a completely new world, new enemy, and new features can bring? Not to mention all the other new stuff that they added.
http://www.minecraft...st__p__20761040
There is simply no excuse for the low quality of this product. Especially when they have an army of testers willing to work for free. I know I would.