I shouldn't even dignify this pathetic attempt at an argument with a response, but hey, I'm bored, so let me try to clarify this for you...
I'm fine with Minecraft being Mincraft, and Terraria being Terraria, and really get irked when people push to try to make two separate games with separate play styles into the same game. It's the same thing as the annoying people that want to increase the combat in Minecraft until it becomes CoD with blocky graphics. Please stop trying to turn Minecraft from what it is into something it's not.
As for your points, I'll address them 1 by 1:
1. "Unfinished" -- I'm fine with Minecraft's level of "finished" as far as content goes. I don't feel that Minecraft needs tons more content to be considered "finished". That said, the devs are adding new content every update, and they are (arguably) trying to make sure that content fits the Minecraft theme.
2. "Severely unpolished and bugged" -- This is purely your opinion. I'll be the first to admit there are a lot of annoying bugs still present in Minecraft, and no, I'm not happy about that. I'd love to see the devs focus on fixing those bugs. But that has nothing at all to do with adding features from Terraria. I also totally disagree that adding features from Terraria is "polishing" a game. It's "altering" it, and there's a huge difference.
3. "Lacking in the..." -- Again, purely your opinion. I (and many other) do NOT feel that Minecraft is "lacking" simply because it doesn't have some of the things that Terraria does. Some might even say that the "lack" of all those things is Minecraft's strong point, in that it's not the convoluted mess that Terraria is.
As I said before, I enjoy both games quite a bit, but I enjoy them for different reasons, and I choose to play the one that more suits my mood at the time. I wouldn't want to see Minecraft try to become 3-D Terraria any more than I'd want Terraria to try to become 2-D Minecraft.
I'm glad you're not a developer for Minecraft otherwise we'd never get new content lol.
Mixing up two different games is almost never a good idea. The result is then quite messed up, how good the two games may be. They can inspire each other, but not just implement cool features from each other. Especially two very extensive and in depth games like Minecraft and Terraria should always go their own ways. Minecraft should just stick to her own themes, just like Terraria should. A game can not have more then three or four themes, I think, before it becomes a way too complex and tasteless monstrosity.
Look, I don't think anyone wants copy pasted features from Terraria into Minecraft. No one here has expressed that that is a good idea.
The OP wants some content inspired by Terraria that makes Minecraft an even better adventure game than it already is. That's it.
I'm glad you're not a developer for Minecraft otherwise we'd never get new content lol.
That's not true. You would get new content, but only after existing content was bug-free and balanced.
Also, new content would not be based on what other games do, but instead be additions that fit the existing Minecraft sandbox.
For example, I wouldn't be trying to turn Minecraft into an RPG, or into a FPS, that's for damn sure.
Minecraft's "adventure" is in its simplicity, and in turn, its ability to let others create adventures from it. It's meant to be the building blocks (literally and figuratively) for whatever kind of games people want to make out of it.
For people that want Terraria-like stuff in Minecraft, that's exactly what mods are for.
Mojang has added so much to the game recently that actually adds to people's ability to create adventures using Minecraft: all the work with resource packs, and command blocks, etc., etc., along with the (eventual, hopefully) addition of the Mod-API. That's exactly the type of thing the devs should be working on. They really don't need to add tons of pointless content (all that does is keep the narrow-minded children happy), they need to keep adding features that better allow the community to create the content they want. In this way, Mojang doesn't just create a single game, they create a platform that allows the creation of a virtually infinite number of games.
Why do people keep bringing up more dimensions? Don't we have enough?
I'd say it's more an issue of there just not being enough content. Maybe people just base the Overworld as having an appropriate level of content when it doesn't, and thus their primary solution is to bring in a new dimension. I highly doubt this is actually true, but just a thought. I personally don't want any dimensions beyond a sky dimension, and even then only because the End is not a suitable replacement for the original sky dimension (since the End is a boss dimension and the Sky Dimension was a regular dimension... though I would be satisfied to some degree if the End was made into a full-blown dimension.)
That's not true. You would get new content, but only after existing content was bug-free and balanced.
Also, new content would not be based on what other games do, but instead be additions that fit the existing Minecraft sandbox.
For example, I wouldn't be trying to turn Minecraft into an RPG, or into a FPS, that's for damn sure.
Minecraft's "adventure" is in its simplicity, and in turn, its ability to let others create adventures from it. It's meant to be the building blocks (literally and figuratively) for whatever kind of games people want to make out of it.
For people that want Terraria-like stuff in Minecraft, that's exactly what mods are for.
Mojang has added so much to the game recently that actually adds to people's ability to create adventures using Minecraft: all the work with resource packs, and command blocks, etc., etc., along with the (eventual, hopefully) addition of the Mod-API. That's exactly the type of thing the devs should be working on. They really don't need to add tons of pointless content (all that does is keep the narrow-minded children happy), they need to keep adding features that better allow the community to create the content they want. In this way, Mojang doesn't just create a single game, they create a platform that allows the creation of a virtually infinite number of games.
We're talking about vanilla MC here, the second you bring up mods then this whole discussion is moot because with mods anything is possible and also optional. Content would be a non-issue.
You also think Minecraft isn't an RPG, which I find interesting. You seriously don't think there is any role playing in Minecraft? (hint: there is in survival mode and it's meta role playing. You're role playing weather there is any narrative or not.)
The point is, it would be interesting to add more elements that add drive and desire to the player, and broaden the players options to build, adventure, and role play. Of which this game contains all three.
We're talking about vanilla MC here, the second you bring up mods then this whole discussion is moot because with mods anything is possible and also optional. Content would be a non-issue.
But that's exactly my point. Content IS a non-issue in Minecraft BECAUSE of mods.
Look at it this way: There's a hundred different ways they could push Minecraft if they wanted to turn it into something more mainstream. They could add all kinds of things to the combat system and loot drops and turn it into Blocky Diablo. They could add guns and more ranged weapons and add all new PvP functionality and turn it into Blocky CoD. They could add lots of player stats and increasing health and player levels that are used in the more tradition RPG sense ("levels" in Minecraft right now are more like "enchanting currency"), along with scripted quests and boss monsters everywhere, and turn it into a Blocky Morrowind.
But if they do any of those things, it starts to force Minecraft into a tradional "niche", as opposed to being the open-ended game that it is. To me, Terraria has already pushed itself into a niche. Yes, there are mods for Terraria too, but it's not nearly as "open-ended" as Minecraft because it's gotten stuck in its own niche already.
Summary: Adding niche-specific content to the base vanilla game limits the game to the audience that enjoys that content, and turns off everyone who does not. Instead, adding more tools in the game to allow people to CREATE the type of game they want from it, only broadens the game's scope.
You also think Minecraft isn't an RPG, which I find interesting. You seriously don't think there is any role playing in Minecraft? (hint: there is in survival mode and it's meta role playing. You're role playing weather there is any narrative or not.)
See my RPG comparison above. By your definition, any game is an RPG. I meant RPG in the traditional sense.
The point is, it would be interesting to add more elements that add drive and desire to the player, and broaden the players options to build, adventure, and role play. Of which this game contains all three.
I agree, but the problem is that to preserve Minecraft's open-ended status, you can't add content that adds "drive and desire" to just one subset of the player base.
I'll use the original requests as examples:
1. "Strata" -- While making the world larger would certainly be fine, adding increasingly difficult monsters as you go lower would mean that building depth now has penalties. While I personally actually think this could work in Minecraft if done right, there would definitely be some people who would hate this.
2. "Bosses" -- We already have a couple. And this suggestion included "rare drops" and items that players would have to hunt for. I can see why some people would like this, but I have enough games where I need to "kill things over and over to get rare loot". It gets real old after a while, and that's the last thing I want to worry about doing while playing Minecraft.
3. "Accessories" -- Basically, the same argument as above. Minecraft's vanilla play style has always been about mining, crafting, and collecting stuff, in order build an increasingly complex base to use to defend and conquer the world around you. The devs have already added enchanting and alchemy to fill the generic need for enhancements to a character. The player is required to create the items themselves. That's the way Minecraft works. (That said, I'm sure that some items with certain additional functionality could be added to the game, if done appropriately).
I'm fine with Minecraft's level of "finished" as far as content goes.
First, that was just a personal opinion. Second, I used the word "content" as something different from game "development". You can "develop" a game without "adding content" (a concept that seems to be lost on most members of this community). Personally, I would be perfectly fine if the devs stopped adding silly new niche things. Horses, for example, were totally unnecessary to the game. I'll admit, they are mildly interesting, and were actually done fairly well, but I don't feel they really did anything to "improve" the game. Their existence doesn't make the game "better" to me. But again, personal opinion.
On the other hand, the developmental updates to terrain were a very welcome change, an as I already said, all the new things they've done to improve mod-ability (that's a word now) are absolutely steps in the right direction. That's the type of new "content" that I'd push for, and the things I'd be focused on if I was a dev (and was told I had to "add something" to the game).
But that's exactly my point. Content IS a non-issue in Minecraft BECAUSE of mods.
Look at it this way: There's a hundred different ways they could push Minecraft if they wanted to turn it into something more mainstream. They could add all kinds of things to the combat system and loot drops and turn it into Blocky Diablo. They could add guns and more ranged weapons and add all new PvP functionality and turn it into Blocky CoD. They could add lots of player stats and increasing health and player levels that are used in the more tradition RPG sense ("levels" in Minecraft right now are more like "enchanting currency"), along with scripted quests and boss monsters everywhere, and turn it into a Blocky Morrowind.
But if they do any of those things, it starts to force Minecraft into a tradional "niche", as opposed to being the open-ended game that it is. To me, Terraria has already pushed itself into a niche. Yes, there are mods for Terraria too, but it's not nearly as "open-ended" as Minecraft because it's gotten stuck in its own niche already.
Summary: Adding niche-specific content to the base vanilla game limits the game to the audience that enjoys that content, and turns off everyone who does not. Instead, adding more tools in the game to allow people to CREATE the type of game they want from it, only broadens the game's scope.
See my RPG comparison above. By your definition, any game is an RPG. I meant RPG in the traditional sense.
I agree, but the problem is that to preserve Minecraft's open-ended status, you can't add content that adds "drive and desire" to just one subset of the player base.
I'll use the original requests as examples:
1. "Strata" -- While making the world larger would certainly be fine, adding increasingly difficult monsters as you go lower would mean that building depth now has penalties. While I personally actually think this could work in Minecraft if done right, there would definitely be some people who would hate this.
2. "Bosses" -- We already have a couple. And this suggestion included "rare drops" and items that players would have to hunt for. I can see why some people would like this, but I have enough games where I need to "kill things over and over to get rare loot". It gets real old after a while, and that's the last thing I want to worry about doing while playing Minecraft.
3. "Accessories" -- Basically, the same argument as above. Minecraft's vanilla play style has always been about mining, crafting, and collecting stuff, in order build an increasingly complex base to use to defend and conquer the world around you. The devs have already added enchanting and alchemy to fill the generic need for enhancements to a character. The player is required to create the items themselves. That's the way Minecraft works. (That said, I'm sure that some items with certain additional functionality could be added to the game, if done appropriately).
First, that was just a personal opinion. Second, I used the word "content" as something different from game "development". You can "develop" a game without "adding content" (a concept that seems to be lost on most members of this community). Personally, I would be perfectly fine if the devs stopped adding silly new niche things. Horses, for example, were totally unnecessary to the game. I'll admit, they are mildly interesting, and were actually done fairly well, but I don't feel they really did anything to "improve" the game. Their existence doesn't make the game "better" to me. But again, personal opinion.
On the other hand, the developmental updates to terrain were a very welcome change, an as I already said, all the new things they've done to improve mod-ability (that's a word now) are absolutely steps in the right direction. That's the type of new "content" that I'd push for, and the things I'd be focused on if I was a dev (and was told I had to "add something" to the game).
Since you want to talk about mods this whole conversation is absolutely pointless but I'll respond anyway.
Of course mods are great, of course Minecraft needs the Mod-API, this is not up for argument because Mods would solve everyones issues. And the fact that Minecraft is an open ended sandbox game is also a moot point because you can add content with out forcing it upon people. Look at the nether. No one is trying to turn this into Diablo, that is a rediculous notion and I don't even know why you brought it up. As for Quests, even if they were in the game, why would you be forced to do them?
Why do you assume you will be forced to engage in activities you do not want to do? That is the point of having a sandbox game, to choose what you want to do, is it not? An example of this is the boss mobs. So far, the player has to go out of his or her way to fight them. In fact, they have to extend some significant effort to find and fight them. Why can't we keep it that way?
"I agree, but the problem is that to preserve Minecraft's open-ended status, you can't add content that adds "drive and desire" to just one subset of the player base."
All content can't please everyone, and of course you can add content to please a sub-set of players. Mojang does it all the time. For instance they added more blocks the last couple patches, which I don't care for. They added horses, which you said yourself you dont care for. They even added carpet, which I have no idea who wanted or even uses.
Also you're not bothering to think of a way to implement those features in a way that would fit Minecraft.
Strata -- Instead of digging deeper in the normal dimention, put this feature in a different dimension, perhaps the nether.
Bosses -- So far I'll be honest and say I haven't fought a single boss in Minecraft because I've been too lazy to summon them or find a way to get to them. If we added more boss mobs it should stay this way.
"accessories" -- Like you said, enchanting fills this feature. Mojang could add more enchantments if they wanted. If people really wanted to be able to craft belts and rings I don't thhink that would be a bad idea either.
I'm not sure why you think everyone is saying "I want this feature from this game! just plop it right down in minecraft thats a great idea!" Because no one is saying that. Like I said before, it's not bad to look at other games for inspiration.
Also, how would you plan on growing and advancing Minecraft other than bug fixing and the mod-API? I'm curious.
I never said you couldn't implement things in a way that wouldn't really affect the game. You probably could.
But if you were going to add content that didn't have a significant impact, why bother adding it at all? And if it DOES have a significant impact, then for every person that likes the change, you'll have anywhere from 1 to 10 more that hate it.
Bottom line is this: Minecraft doesn't need to add elements from other games to be good. And adding elements from other games can go one of two ways, either it doesn't affect anything, or it affects some people positively and others negatively.
This whole conversation started because I made a simple comment that "I wish people would stop trying to turn Minecraft into 3-D Terraria." While the OPs suggestions were innocuous enough, there's been countless threads on these forums that have been far worse, with suggestions that would truly alter the type of game Minecraft is. That's all I'm really against, the addition of things that would kill the adaptability of this game. Its adaptability is its strength.
I never said you couldn't implement things in a way that wouldn't really affect the game. You probably could.
But if you were going to add content that didn't have a significant impact, why bother adding it at all? And if it DOES have a significant impact, then for every person that likes the change, you'll have anywhere from 1 to 10 more that hate it.
Bottom line is this: Minecraft doesn't need to add elements from other games to be good. And adding elements from other games can go one of two ways, either it doesn't affect anything, or it affects some people positively and others negatively.
This whole conversation started because I made a simple comment that "I wish people would stop trying to turn Minecraft into 3-D Terraria." While the OPs suggestions were innocuous enough, there's been countless threads on these forums that have been far worse, with suggestions that would truly alter the type of game Minecraft is. That's all I'm really against, the addition of things that would kill the adaptability of this game. Its adaptability is its strength.
There is a problem with the forums, I can't give these posts enough likes.
Seriously though, it frustrates me a bit when people claim that 'there's a mod for that' is an insufficient solution for any complaint that anyone has about this game... precisely for the reasons you've laid out here. That's just the kind of game Minecraft is, its open-endedness is the largest part of its appeal-- and that's also exactly why people have such different and passionate ideas about how they want to play it, IMO.
Bottom line is this: Minecraft doesn't need to add elements from other games to be good. And adding elements from other games can go one of two ways, either it doesn't affect anything, or it affects some people positively and others negatively.
Every time you respond to me you bring up issues that have nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm not encouraging "adding elements from other games" I'm just saying that I think it's OK to take inspiration from other games, that is not the same as copy features from other games. You can add content to Minecraft and still keep its open ended freedom. Adding more content now isn't going to keep Minecraft from being any less adaptable than it would have at it's 1.0 launch.
There is literally no reason to assume anyone wants to overhaul Minecraft into a completely different game.
I'm glad you're not a developer for Minecraft otherwise we'd never get new content lol.
Look, I don't think anyone wants copy pasted features from Terraria into Minecraft. No one here has expressed that that is a good idea.
The OP wants some content inspired by Terraria that makes Minecraft an even better adventure game than it already is. That's it.
I agree. it's a flat argument.
That's not true. You would get new content, but only after existing content was bug-free and balanced.
Also, new content would not be based on what other games do, but instead be additions that fit the existing Minecraft sandbox.
For example, I wouldn't be trying to turn Minecraft into an RPG, or into a FPS, that's for damn sure.
Minecraft's "adventure" is in its simplicity, and in turn, its ability to let others create adventures from it. It's meant to be the building blocks (literally and figuratively) for whatever kind of games people want to make out of it.
For people that want Terraria-like stuff in Minecraft, that's exactly what mods are for.
Mojang has added so much to the game recently that actually adds to people's ability to create adventures using Minecraft: all the work with resource packs, and command blocks, etc., etc., along with the (eventual, hopefully) addition of the Mod-API. That's exactly the type of thing the devs should be working on. They really don't need to add tons of pointless content (all that does is keep the narrow-minded children happy), they need to keep adding features that better allow the community to create the content they want. In this way, Mojang doesn't just create a single game, they create a platform that allows the creation of a virtually infinite number of games.
I'd say it's more an issue of there just not being enough content. Maybe people just base the Overworld as having an appropriate level of content when it doesn't, and thus their primary solution is to bring in a new dimension. I highly doubt this is actually true, but just a thought. I personally don't want any dimensions beyond a sky dimension, and even then only because the End is not a suitable replacement for the original sky dimension (since the End is a boss dimension and the Sky Dimension was a regular dimension... though I would be satisfied to some degree if the End was made into a full-blown dimension.)
We're talking about vanilla MC here, the second you bring up mods then this whole discussion is moot because with mods anything is possible and also optional. Content would be a non-issue.
You also think Minecraft isn't an RPG, which I find interesting. You seriously don't think there is any role playing in Minecraft? (hint: there is in survival mode and it's meta role playing. You're role playing weather there is any narrative or not.)
The point is, it would be interesting to add more elements that add drive and desire to the player, and broaden the players options to build, adventure, and role play. Of which this game contains all three.
And I'm going to ignore the fact you said
But that's exactly my point. Content IS a non-issue in Minecraft BECAUSE of mods.
Look at it this way: There's a hundred different ways they could push Minecraft if they wanted to turn it into something more mainstream. They could add all kinds of things to the combat system and loot drops and turn it into Blocky Diablo. They could add guns and more ranged weapons and add all new PvP functionality and turn it into Blocky CoD. They could add lots of player stats and increasing health and player levels that are used in the more tradition RPG sense ("levels" in Minecraft right now are more like "enchanting currency"), along with scripted quests and boss monsters everywhere, and turn it into a Blocky Morrowind.
But if they do any of those things, it starts to force Minecraft into a tradional "niche", as opposed to being the open-ended game that it is. To me, Terraria has already pushed itself into a niche. Yes, there are mods for Terraria too, but it's not nearly as "open-ended" as Minecraft because it's gotten stuck in its own niche already.
Summary: Adding niche-specific content to the base vanilla game limits the game to the audience that enjoys that content, and turns off everyone who does not. Instead, adding more tools in the game to allow people to CREATE the type of game they want from it, only broadens the game's scope.
See my RPG comparison above. By your definition, any game is an RPG. I meant RPG in the traditional sense.
I agree, but the problem is that to preserve Minecraft's open-ended status, you can't add content that adds "drive and desire" to just one subset of the player base.
I'll use the original requests as examples:
1. "Strata" -- While making the world larger would certainly be fine, adding increasingly difficult monsters as you go lower would mean that building depth now has penalties. While I personally actually think this could work in Minecraft if done right, there would definitely be some people who would hate this.
2. "Bosses" -- We already have a couple. And this suggestion included "rare drops" and items that players would have to hunt for. I can see why some people would like this, but I have enough games where I need to "kill things over and over to get rare loot". It gets real old after a while, and that's the last thing I want to worry about doing while playing Minecraft.
3. "Accessories" -- Basically, the same argument as above. Minecraft's vanilla play style has always been about mining, crafting, and collecting stuff, in order build an increasingly complex base to use to defend and conquer the world around you. The devs have already added enchanting and alchemy to fill the generic need for enhancements to a character. The player is required to create the items themselves. That's the way Minecraft works. (That said, I'm sure that some items with certain additional functionality could be added to the game, if done appropriately).
First, that was just a personal opinion. Second, I used the word "content" as something different from game "development". You can "develop" a game without "adding content" (a concept that seems to be lost on most members of this community). Personally, I would be perfectly fine if the devs stopped adding silly new niche things. Horses, for example, were totally unnecessary to the game. I'll admit, they are mildly interesting, and were actually done fairly well, but I don't feel they really did anything to "improve" the game. Their existence doesn't make the game "better" to me. But again, personal opinion.
On the other hand, the developmental updates to terrain were a very welcome change, an as I already said, all the new things they've done to improve mod-ability (that's a word now) are absolutely steps in the right direction. That's the type of new "content" that I'd push for, and the things I'd be focused on if I was a dev (and was told I had to "add something" to the game).
Since you want to talk about mods this whole conversation is absolutely pointless but I'll respond anyway.
Of course mods are great, of course Minecraft needs the Mod-API, this is not up for argument because Mods would solve everyones issues. And the fact that Minecraft is an open ended sandbox game is also a moot point because you can add content with out forcing it upon people. Look at the nether. No one is trying to turn this into Diablo, that is a rediculous notion and I don't even know why you brought it up. As for Quests, even if they were in the game, why would you be forced to do them?
Why do you assume you will be forced to engage in activities you do not want to do? That is the point of having a sandbox game, to choose what you want to do, is it not? An example of this is the boss mobs. So far, the player has to go out of his or her way to fight them. In fact, they have to extend some significant effort to find and fight them. Why can't we keep it that way?
"I agree, but the problem is that to preserve Minecraft's open-ended status, you can't add content that adds "drive and desire" to just one subset of the player base."
All content can't please everyone, and of course you can add content to please a sub-set of players. Mojang does it all the time. For instance they added more blocks the last couple patches, which I don't care for. They added horses, which you said yourself you dont care for. They even added carpet, which I have no idea who wanted or even uses.
Also you're not bothering to think of a way to implement those features in a way that would fit Minecraft.
Strata -- Instead of digging deeper in the normal dimention, put this feature in a different dimension, perhaps the nether.
Bosses -- So far I'll be honest and say I haven't fought a single boss in Minecraft because I've been too lazy to summon them or find a way to get to them. If we added more boss mobs it should stay this way.
"accessories" -- Like you said, enchanting fills this feature. Mojang could add more enchantments if they wanted. If people really wanted to be able to craft belts and rings I don't thhink that would be a bad idea either.
I'm not sure why you think everyone is saying "I want this feature from this game! just plop it right down in minecraft thats a great idea!" Because no one is saying that. Like I said before, it's not bad to look at other games for inspiration.
Also, how would you plan on growing and advancing Minecraft other than bug fixing and the mod-API? I'm curious.
But if you were going to add content that didn't have a significant impact, why bother adding it at all? And if it DOES have a significant impact, then for every person that likes the change, you'll have anywhere from 1 to 10 more that hate it.
Bottom line is this: Minecraft doesn't need to add elements from other games to be good. And adding elements from other games can go one of two ways, either it doesn't affect anything, or it affects some people positively and others negatively.
This whole conversation started because I made a simple comment that "I wish people would stop trying to turn Minecraft into 3-D Terraria." While the OPs suggestions were innocuous enough, there's been countless threads on these forums that have been far worse, with suggestions that would truly alter the type of game Minecraft is. That's all I'm really against, the addition of things that would kill the adaptability of this game. Its adaptability is its strength.
There is a problem with the forums, I can't give these posts enough likes.
Seriously though, it frustrates me a bit when people claim that 'there's a mod for that' is an insufficient solution for any complaint that anyone has about this game... precisely for the reasons you've laid out here. That's just the kind of game Minecraft is, its open-endedness is the largest part of its appeal-- and that's also exactly why people have such different and passionate ideas about how they want to play it, IMO.
Every time you respond to me you bring up issues that have nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm not encouraging "adding elements from other games" I'm just saying that I think it's OK to take inspiration from other games, that is not the same as copy features from other games. You can add content to Minecraft and still keep its open ended freedom. Adding more content now isn't going to keep Minecraft from being any less adaptable than it would have at it's 1.0 launch.
There is literally no reason to assume anyone wants to overhaul Minecraft into a completely different game.
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