So, with the addition of anvils, it got me thinking about how you would make the perfect set of armour, tools and weapons. After a few minutes, I found out stuff about the anvil (like you can only combine things up to the level cap, so no efficiency 10 picks for me ), but then I kept trying. I wanted the absolute best you can get. After a few hours, I decided to start trying to figure out how the anvil worked; why did it decide that my power 3, punch 1 infinity bow cost an instant 21 levels in the anvil, and why when I added another bow to it, it would increase the cost (after all, I am actually a scientist, so it's literally my job to wonder about this )
Anyway, my findings aren't quite complete. I haven't *quite* got the correct way for combining enchants 100% of the time. I've gone through dozens of different ways, and they work for some stuff, but not all (though some have gotten VERY close - grr). If you guys want to help with this, either reply, or send me a pm and I'll let you know what you can do (or you can tell me if you have the answer )
Here are my findings. I've found out a lot, but don't let the massive post fool you, quite a bit of it is tables and pictures you don't really have to read. By the end of it, you'll hopefully understand the anvil mechanics as much as me . Let me know if I'm wrong, and I'll gladly change it
General
This is for items in general for the anvil (doesn't depend which slot you put it in)
The material that the tool is made out of doesn't matter. A wooden sword with looting 3 and bane 4 will cost the same when you put it into an anvil as a diamond sword with the same enchants (both costing 23 levels)
Adding two like enchantments will give you an enchantment of the next level, as long as it doesn't go over the cap (knockback 1 + knockback 1 = knockback 2, but looting 3 + looting 3 = looting 3 still, since there is no looting 4)
When combining enchantments, the item in the first slot (left slot) will be the one that gets the enchantment. This also means that if you have a sword with sharpness 3 and looting 2 in the first slot, and a sword with bane 2 and looting 2 in the second slot, the sword with sharpness will override the bane sword, giving the final sword sharpness 3 and looting 3. It also means, though, that if you switched the order around (have bane in first slot and sharpness in second), you would end up with a sword that has bane 2 and looting 3
Every time you put an item through the anvil, you have to add 2 to it. This means that if you make a sharpness 4 sword using two sharpness 3 swords, it will cost you 2 more levels than a 'pure' sharpness 4 sword would
The maximum level of things you can put into an anvil is 40. Once you go past this, the anvil says it is too expensive and won't let you do anything to it
If the higher of the two items are put into the first slot, the second enchantment will cost less overall, but if you switch the order, the enchantment will cost more. This is based on Point 3 above
The order of the enchantments don't matter. A sword with sharpness 4, fire 2 and knockback 1 will cost the same as a sword with knockback 1, sharpness 4 and fire 2
First Slot
These points are for items placed in the first (left) slot of the anvil. There are tables at the end of the dot points for all the values you need
Each enchantment has a 'base' cost for the anvil. This is the cost for the first level of that enchantment. The cost of the enchantment is also based on the level. A bane 3 will cost more in the anvil than a bane 1
To find the total cost of an item in the anvil, you add the cost of each enchantment and add an extra number to it based on how many extra enchantments you have (I took 1 enchantment to be default, since you can't have an enchanted item with no enchants). This means that if you have a sword with sharpness 3 and looting 2, it has 1 extra enchant, while a sharpness 3, looting 2 and knockback 1 has 2 extra enchants
The difference between the levels of an enchantment are constant. This means if a sword with only looting 1 costs 5 levels in the anvil, a looting 2 sword costs 9 levels (4 more), and a looting 3 sword will cost another 4 more. This value of 4 levels per enchantment level varies between each enchantment (see table below)
These tables show how many levels each enchantment will cost (sorry for putting up pictures of them; I tried making it into a table, but couldn't figure out how with the forums )
Swords:
Tools:
Armour:
Bows:
To calculate the total cost of an item, add up the cost of each enchantment on it, then add a value from this table based on how many extra enchantments it has:
For all you mathematicians out there, yes, these are indeed the triangular numbers
Note: Items marks with an (*) are ones you can't usually get (like sharpness 5). If you could, the values there (like 6 for sharpness 5) would be used, but since you have to make it, you have to add the amount of times it has been put in anvil before (see point 4 under section 'General'). For example, to make a sharpness 5 using 2 'pure' sharpness 4 swords would cost 7 levels. If you then put that into the anvil, instead of costing 6 levels for a pure sharpness 5 sword, it will cost 2 more levels than that, so 8 levels total. This means that for sharpness, efficiency and power 5, the minimum level in the anvil will be 8
Second Slot
These points are for the items in the second slot. This is where I get lost a bit, so if something doesn't make sense, let me know and I'll try fix it up. Also, not everything here is perfect, since I'm still not sure about how to combine multiple enchantments. Until I do, these points assume that whatever you're trying to add on, you have already got on the first item in the first slot (For example, trying to add sharpness 2 to a sword in the first slot that has sharpness 2 and knockback 1). This also works with multiple similar enchants (sharpness 2 and looting 1 with another sharpness 2 looting 1)
Note: Just to be clear, when I say "Adding a enchantment x onto an item with enchantments y", I mean that the first slot has an item with enchantments y, and the second slot has an item with enchantment x
The cost for adding an enchantment is fixed between the levels. Adding a sharpness 1 sword to another sword with sharpness 1 and other stuff will cost the same as adding a sharpness 4 sword to another sword with sharpness 4 and other stuff
Adding two enchantments at level cap (such as a looting 3 and looting 3) will add half the cost instead of the whole cost. For example, adding looting 1 with looting 1 or looting 2 with looting 2 costs 8 levels, but if you add a looting 3 to a looting 3, it will only cost 4 levels
As said in section 'General' point 4, whenever you make an item, it adds two extra levels in future. Because of this, if an item has been made in an anvil before, you should add 2 levels per time it's been anvil'ed (not sure if that's a word? But from now on, an item that has been anvil'ed is one that has been put through the anvil process). Because of this, even though the cost for adding a sharpness sword is 2, making the cost of a sharpness 5 half of that (point 2 above), which is 1, because you had to make the sword using two sharpness 4 swords, the cost to add a sharpness 5 sword is actually 3
Here are the tables used for the second slot enchantments:
Swords:
Tools:
Armour:
Bows:
Note: Again, for the items marked with a (*), since you can't naturally get them without making them, you have to add on two levels for each time you anvil'ed it before
So, that's just about everything I know about the anvil mechanics so far! Let's end with an example
Say we make a sword with sharpness 3, knockback 2 and looting 2. We can calculate it using the tables from the 'First Slot' section. We see the base cost of sharpness 3 is 4, the base cost of knockback 2 is 5 and the base cost of looting 2 is 9. We also know that this has 2 extra enchantments on it, so we need to add an extra 3 levels to the cost. When we put it into the anvil, it should then cost 4+5+9+3=21 levels. If we then enchant another sword and get sharpness 3 and looting 2 on it, we can combine these two to get a sword with sharpness 4, looting 3 and knockback 2. To calculate how much this would cost, we look at the tables in the 'Second Slot' section. To add sharpness 3 costs 2 levels, and to add looting 2 costs 8 levels. This means, that if we start with the 22 levels from before, to add the sharpness 4 and looting 2 sword would cost 21+2+8=31 levels
But don't just take my word for it!
Step 1
Step 2
Annndddd...
Success! Each step cost exactly what we predicted it would
So there you have it. Everything I know about the anvil mechanics so far. If anyone has any ideas on how other stuffs combine when there isn't a common link (like a sharpness 3 and knockback 2 sword with a looting 1 and fire 1 sword), please let me know . Or, try figure it out yourself and I'll add it all here
Sorry this is a long post, there's a lot of stuff to get through . Let me know if I'm missing something or if something doesn't make sense, and I'll add/change to the first post accordingly . Also, I'm working on a program that will let you calculate all this stuff automatically, but without knowing how enchantments are combined, I can't really go further. I can release it early though if people want (all it does now is tell you how much the first item will cost, but not much else yet)
Thanks this was really helpful, with this I was able to craft my ideal sword... the problem was it took sooo many re-tries to get the enchantments I needed on the base swords to actually be feasible in game. I still hate this system. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad if you could choose enchantments... Or just get rid of/raise the level cap... I know it's Mojangs game and is their choice as to what direction to take it but is anybody actually happy with this current system? The initial release of the repair system made me just want to shut my server down and give up, I had been looking forward to a repair system for a while and it is a huge letdown.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
Thanks guys! Took a lot of time, but it's still not quite complete. Hopefully I'll be able to figure out soon how they got some of the smaller details to work :D!
Thanks this was really helpful, with this I was able to craft my ideal sword... the problem was it took sooo many re-tries to get the enchantments I needed on the base swords to actually be feasible in game. I still hate this system. Maybe it wouldn't be as bad if you could choose enchantments... Or just get rid of/raise the level cap... I know it's Mojangs game and is their choice as to what direction to take it but is anybody actually happy with this current system? The initial release of the repair system made me just want to shut my server down and give up, I had been looking forward to a repair system for a while and it is a huge letdown.
You have no idea how many swords I went through to get all this data. I literally have over 10-20 double chests full of enchanted swords.
This may be outdated due to the anvil tweaks in 12w42a, but I'm not sure.
I hope not! A lot of testing went into this :P! i did some quick testing on the latest snapshot though, and from what i saw, it was all the same. it looks like the tweaks they did was to repairing, not combining enchantments :). More testing might be needed though!
I hope not! A lot of testing went into this ! i did some quick testing on the latest snapshot though, and from what i saw, it was all the same. it looks like the tweaks they did was to repairing, not combining enchantments . More testing might be needed though!
Even if they did change anything in this, it isn't largely significant. I haven't noticed any changes other than the experience cost seems to be a little cheaper.
Nice work, btw. You evidently put a lot of research into this.
Even if they did change anything in this, it isn't largely significant. I haven't noticed any changes other than the experience cost seems to be a little cheaper.
Nice work, btw. You evidently put a lot of research into this.
Thanks :). But what experience cost being cheaper D:?
If you change the "extra enchantments" table from 0,1,3,6 to 1,3,6,10 and remove 1 from the first level of each enchantment, would it make the tables simpler-- everything seems to change to a flat cost per level, (although I might be missing something.)
If you change the "extra enchantments" table from 0,1,3,6 to 1,3,6,10 and remove 1 from the first level of each enchantment, would it make the tables simpler-- everything seems to change to a flat cost per level, (although I might be missing something.)
I could do that, but they way I defined it was the number of extra enchants. While they do indeed equal exactly the same, it's how I started thinking of it, and to change it now would mean rewriting a lot of things and fixing the tables
Dinnerbone upped this, which is how I found it. Very useful, this thread is on my bookmark list!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Redstone is a powerful thing. By itself, it does a lot of crazy stuff. When you add lots of it together, it does even more crazier stuff." -Dinnerbone
Dinnerbone upped this, which is how I found it. Very useful, this thread is on my bookmark list!
He did indeed! Made me quite happy when he did too :P. Means I was onto something! Anyways, this topic is slightly outdated. I put this post on reddit too, and people were saying it was good and I should put it on the wiki. So check the wiki for Anvil Mechanics (http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Anvil_mechanics) for slightly more info about it
He did indeed! Made me quite happy when he did too . Means I was onto something! Anyways, this topic is slightly outdated. I put this post on reddit too, and people were saying it was good and I should put it on the wiki. So check the wiki for Anvil Mechanics (http://www.minecraft...Anvil_mechanics) for slightly more info about it
I saw that page and wondered if you had contributed that writeup. Good work!
I saw that page and wondered if you had contributed that writeup. Good work!
Haha, thanks :). I did indeed type pretty much all of it up, and some people helped me format stuff and make it look better etc :). Lots of work went into it
I was wondering about naming items and whether its worth naming or if it increases costs?
I read that naming just cuts down the amount of enchanting available?, then I read that named items are cheaper to repair? I am hoping that someone can shed some light on this.
From how I understand it, naming does contribute to the overall XP value of the item, however a named items XP repair cost no longer exponentiates but instead remains a set amount. This means you could continue to repair an enchanted named item indefinitely as long as the cost doesn't exceed the limit.
Anyone else despise the level cap on the anvils? I have a Power V, Infinity I, Flame I, Unbreaking III bow that won't allow me to repair it. I think that with the addition of Enchanted books, they needed to increase the level cap.
So, with the addition of anvils, it got me thinking about how you would make the perfect set of armour, tools and weapons. After a few minutes, I found out stuff about the anvil (like you can only combine things up to the level cap, so no efficiency 10 picks for me ), but then I kept trying. I wanted the absolute best you can get. After a few hours, I decided to start trying to figure out how the anvil worked; why did it decide that my power 3, punch 1 infinity bow cost an instant 21 levels in the anvil, and why when I added another bow to it, it would increase the cost (after all, I am actually a scientist, so it's literally my job to wonder about this )
Anyway, my findings aren't quite complete. I haven't *quite* got the correct way for combining enchants 100% of the time. I've gone through dozens of different ways, and they work for some stuff, but not all (though some have gotten VERY close - grr). If you guys want to help with this, either reply, or send me a pm and I'll let you know what you can do (or you can tell me if you have the answer )
Here are my findings. I've found out a lot, but don't let the massive post fool you, quite a bit of it is tables and pictures you don't really have to read. By the end of it, you'll hopefully understand the anvil mechanics as much as me . Let me know if I'm wrong, and I'll gladly change it
General
This is for items in general for the anvil (doesn't depend which slot you put it in)
These points are for items placed in the first (left) slot of the anvil. There are tables at the end of the dot points for all the values you need
Swords:
Tools:
Armour:
Bows:
To calculate the total cost of an item, add up the cost of each enchantment on it, then add a value from this table based on how many extra enchantments it has:
For all you mathematicians out there, yes, these are indeed the triangular numbers
Note: Items marks with an (*) are ones you can't usually get (like sharpness 5). If you could, the values there (like 6 for sharpness 5) would be used, but since you have to make it, you have to add the amount of times it has been put in anvil before (see point 4 under section 'General'). For example, to make a sharpness 5 using 2 'pure' sharpness 4 swords would cost 7 levels. If you then put that into the anvil, instead of costing 6 levels for a pure sharpness 5 sword, it will cost 2 more levels than that, so 8 levels total. This means that for sharpness, efficiency and power 5, the minimum level in the anvil will be 8
Second Slot
These points are for the items in the second slot. This is where I get lost a bit, so if something doesn't make sense, let me know and I'll try fix it up. Also, not everything here is perfect, since I'm still not sure about how to combine multiple enchantments. Until I do, these points assume that whatever you're trying to add on, you have already got on the first item in the first slot (For example, trying to add sharpness 2 to a sword in the first slot that has sharpness 2 and knockback 1). This also works with multiple similar enchants (sharpness 2 and looting 1 with another sharpness 2 looting 1)
Note: Just to be clear, when I say "Adding a enchantment x onto an item with enchantments y", I mean that the first slot has an item with enchantments y, and the second slot has an item with enchantment x
Swords:
Tools:
Armour:
Bows:
Note: Again, for the items marked with a (*), since you can't naturally get them without making them, you have to add on two levels for each time you anvil'ed it before
So, that's just about everything I know about the anvil mechanics so far! Let's end with an example
Say we make a sword with sharpness 3, knockback 2 and looting 2. We can calculate it using the tables from the 'First Slot' section. We see the base cost of sharpness 3 is 4, the base cost of knockback 2 is 5 and the base cost of looting 2 is 9. We also know that this has 2 extra enchantments on it, so we need to add an extra 3 levels to the cost. When we put it into the anvil, it should then cost 4+5+9+3=21 levels. If we then enchant another sword and get sharpness 3 and looting 2 on it, we can combine these two to get a sword with sharpness 4, looting 3 and knockback 2. To calculate how much this would cost, we look at the tables in the 'Second Slot' section. To add sharpness 3 costs 2 levels, and to add looting 2 costs 8 levels. This means, that if we start with the 22 levels from before, to add the sharpness 4 and looting 2 sword would cost 21+2+8=31 levels
But don't just take my word for it!
Step 1
Step 2
Annndddd...
Success! Each step cost exactly what we predicted it would
So there you have it. Everything I know about the anvil mechanics so far. If anyone has any ideas on how other stuffs combine when there isn't a common link (like a sharpness 3 and knockback 2 sword with a looting 1 and fire 1 sword), please let me know . Or, try figure it out yourself and I'll add it all here
Sorry this is a long post, there's a lot of stuff to get through . Let me know if I'm missing something or if something doesn't make sense, and I'll add/change to the first post accordingly . Also, I'm working on a program that will let you calculate all this stuff automatically, but without knowing how enchantments are combined, I can't really go further. I can release it early though if people want (all it does now is tell you how much the first item will cost, but not much else yet)
My anvil mechanics tutorial: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1524823-anvil-mechanics-in-depth/
http://www.minecraft...d-mob-spawning/
Well done, sir.
Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
You have no idea how many swords I went through to get all this data. I literally have over 10-20 double chests full of enchanted swords.
Then there's armour, tools and bows...
My anvil mechanics tutorial: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1524823-anvil-mechanics-in-depth/
I am ninja'd far too often.
I hope not! A lot of testing went into this :P! i did some quick testing on the latest snapshot though, and from what i saw, it was all the same. it looks like the tweaks they did was to repairing, not combining enchantments :). More testing might be needed though!
My anvil mechanics tutorial: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1524823-anvil-mechanics-in-depth/
Even if they did change anything in this, it isn't largely significant. I haven't noticed any changes other than the experience cost seems to be a little cheaper.
Nice work, btw. You evidently put a lot of research into this.
I am ninja'd far too often.
Thanks :). But what experience cost being cheaper D:?
My anvil mechanics tutorial: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1524823-anvil-mechanics-in-depth/
Be a shame if something were to happen to it
My anvil mechanics tutorial: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1524823-anvil-mechanics-in-depth/
If you change the "extra enchantments" table from 0,1,3,6 to 1,3,6,10 and remove 1 from the first level of each enchantment, would it make the tables simpler-- everything seems to change to a flat cost per level, (although I might be missing something.)
I could do that, but they way I defined it was the number of extra enchants. While they do indeed equal exactly the same, it's how I started thinking of it, and to change it now would mean rewriting a lot of things and fixing the tables
My anvil mechanics tutorial: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1524823-anvil-mechanics-in-depth/
He did indeed! Made me quite happy when he did too :P. Means I was onto something! Anyways, this topic is slightly outdated. I put this post on reddit too, and people were saying it was good and I should put it on the wiki. So check the wiki for Anvil Mechanics (http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Anvil_mechanics) for slightly more info about it
My anvil mechanics tutorial: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1524823-anvil-mechanics-in-depth/
I saw that page and wondered if you had contributed that writeup. Good work!
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
Haha, thanks :). I did indeed type pretty much all of it up, and some people helped me format stuff and make it look better etc :). Lots of work went into it
My anvil mechanics tutorial: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1524823-anvil-mechanics-in-depth/
From how I understand it, naming does contribute to the overall XP value of the item, however a named items XP repair cost no longer exponentiates but instead remains a set amount. This means you could continue to repair an enchanted named item indefinitely as long as the cost doesn't exceed the limit.
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
Nice findings!