Basically I am bringing everyone here to open up an area to submit your opinions and possible changes to the Beacon block.
I just downloaded the snapshot from today and from what I have played I am enjoying it a lot. Now, of course, to test this new stuff out I hopped right into creative mode and went to town on spawning endless amounts of Wither Boss' and started tinkering with item frames.
(Start here for no background story)
Problem:
But when I started to tinker with the Beacon Block, I came up with the realization that even with the semi-to-not-so difficult crafting recipe. I am still positive that this block is completely overpowered. From what I see in it, the cost to craft is not very much, even with having to kill Wither and or collecting the heads to spawn the Wither. The platform being iron/gold/diamond/emerald is pretty easy to manage too.
Suggestion to fix this problem: So to decrease the over-poweredness (not a word, but go with me) I suggest making the Beacon block consume something to power it. What I suggest is Nether Stars that were added in this snapshot.
Now I know what you're thinking.. Why does it matter? You would need to make a huge pyramid to make the thing worthwhile to consume anything. That cost would override the means of using such a block. It would be better off not being added if it was like that.
I see where that's coming from and I understand that completely. I just think especially for the people who would use this block to give them an upper hand in a mob trap to kill things faster.. An endless power boost is something I personally see as a broken mechanic to the gameplay of Minecraft.
Anyways, please leave your comments on this post and reply with your suggestions or concerns or whatever you want to say! I suggest you keep the thread on topic. I'll try and reply ASAP and if a suggestion gets released that I personally see as better fit, I will add it to the thread and let people compare.
Overpower'd? It only works if your in the vicinity of it, so all i can find is, placing another one while fighting the wither for the 2nd time or speed in your house
I responded to this in the post already, but all I am saying is it's prone to abuse especially on multiplayer. I understand where you are coming from though.
The only way it would give mob trap makers an advantage is if they were getting mobs at a rapid rate. If they went through the effort to do that (Which would have to be lighting up every cave and area in a large vicinity that mobs can spawn), and get a pyramid's worth of rare materials, and kill the wither, they've accomplished enough to deserve an advantage over players who don't put that much effort in what they do
Edit: Not to mention most mob traps can leave mobs with 1 hit worth of damage anyway, making it so that the power boost wouldn't benefit them in the slightest
The only way it would give mob trap makers an advantage is if they were getting mobs at a rapid rate. If they went through the effort to do that (Which would have to be lighting up every cave and area in a large vicinity that mobs can spawn), and get a pyramid's worth of rare materials, and kill the wither, they've accomplished enough to deserve an advantage over players who don't put that much effort in what they do
I'm pretty sure people who don't put much effort into what they do (Me) can get pretty far as I have managed to collect countless amounts of materials ranging from coal to diamonds and have lost all uses for them. The server I made about a year ago also consisted of some people who would log on for an hour and already have started making potions because of how easy it is to obtain everything now..
As of now it is extremely underpowerd.
the crafting of the beacon block itself I can handle, but the piramid underneath it? IMPOSSIBRU!!!! The amount of diamond, emerald, gold or even iron is just too damn high(I should stop these memes ) I'm probably never going to build it in survival because of that. I don't want to mindlessly mine iron/gold/diamond/emerald. it needs to be cheaper. Would be nice in adventure maps though.
See, I have the opposite problem... I tend to be overloaded with all those materials and have no use for them at all.
Well then you're probably finished with that world anyway. I've never had that problem before(I've played minecraft for 2,5 years now) because I start an new world every now and then. I can understand that you don't want to lose everything you've made and achieved in that world but if the beacon piramid is cheap for you, you really need to start over, there's probably nothing else to do then.
I have over 100 worlds I start a new one almost every week.
Let's see, a block that requires you to kill a lot of mobs in the Nether, kill quite possibly the toughest boss in the game, use up tons of rare materials to pyramidally power, and even then its effects only work in a radius around it... is overpowered?
Let's see, a block that requires you to kill a lot of mobs in the Nether, kill quite possibly the toughest boss in the game, use up tons of rare materials to pyramidally power, and even then its effects only work in a radius around it... is overpowered?
So your mining your way to get diamond and obsidian... Then to get to nether and kill some Wither Skeleton's for a while trying to get Wither Skulls... And then after that summon a very powerful boss. After its beaten (Which needs some effort) you have to mine for a long while just to make a pyramid... With other words i dont think its overpowered
Diamonds are not rare anymore.. They actually never have been, you use a specific mining method and the return on diamonds with provide you with more than enough to use for a pyramid. Obsidian is tedious none the less, but very manageable as all you need to do is make an obsidian farm. The Wither is not difficult to kill. I'd say it's roughly the same as the Ender Dragon, but takes less time because it doesn't fly away.
Underpowered. If you have material to create a beacon pyramid, you probably earned the ability to build it, but even then it only affects you within a certain range.
Not to sound insulting, but this just sounds like yet another thread complaining about something that isn't that big of a deal.
First you got to have a INSANE amount of time spend in the nether. Wither skeletons aren't common- and getting the heads is a HUGE pain in the ass.
After you might have spend 3 hours in the Nether- and made it out alive- you have to fight the wither; what is not easy at all. Hes totally gonna rape your ass.
If you menage to kill him, you get 1 star.
After that, you're gonna make the pyramid.
81 iron bars, for a 16 block radius of Haste or Speed. Is that worth all these materials? Wouldn't say so.
So, for 216 iron bars, you get a radius of 24 blocks. For 747 you get a 32 block radius. For 2304 IRON BARS, you get the radius of 40 blocks, what is like enough to cover 1 big NPC village.
No way you´re gonna ever get 2304 iron bars.
And what if you have a beacon= Most of the time, I´m not even home. I mine, or explore the overworld. Or, I´m building something. And when you´re building something, you don´t really need your beacon powers. Neither do you have them when you are far away.
And common. Does the beacon give a THAT much of a benefit?
I'm sorry, I guess that most other people haven't really tried to collect an over abundance of resources. Basically,, what I am reading from these comments is that the server I had started over a year ago is the only server where players have too much stuff without using the /give ability and collecting everything by hand. By that means, I guess a difficulty boost is in order for myself and the other players. (And no SuitCraft is not my server)
Underpowered. If you have material to create a beacon pyramid, you probably earned the ability to build it, but even then it only affects you within a certain range.
Not to sound insulting, but this just sounds like yet another thread complaining about something that isn't that big of a deal.
I agree with the underpowered range. It's not complaining at all. I will use it either way, I'll probably just abuse it though ahaha.
I agree with the underpowered range. It's not complaining at all. I will use it either way, I'll probably just abuse it though ahaha.
Well, if you can abuse it, then prove it. The entire point of snapshots are to test things out. If you can figure out a way to overpower the Beacon block and offer an oversized advantage in doing so, then do it and report back with your findings. I'm extremely certain others here would be interested in it if you can do so, because it isn't until exploits and instances of too much power are discovered that they can be fixed.
Well, if you can abuse it, then prove it. The entire point of snapshots are to test things out. If you can figure out a way to overpower the Beacon block and offer an oversized advantage in doing so, then do it and report back with your findings. I'm extremely certain others here would be interested in it if you can do so, because it isn't until exploits and instances of too much power are discovered that they can be fixed.
Which I will, but I'm not sure I will release such abuses to the public.
No it doesn't, you just have the materials where the fight doesn't matter anymore.
Welcome to end game minecraft
Minecraft's point is the progressively make everything easier and easier to get with better and better materials until you can achieve anything you want
Ok its completely obvious that your trolling, and trolling hard at that. The fact is that the pyramid takes up a very large amount of materials, Even just using iron it would be required that you have 1476 ingots to create the full powered beacon (Something that no matter what you say to the contrary is not an easy task, saying that you can achieve that in 7 hours is complete bull). To top it off you need to get three wither skulls which are a very rare drop that is not easy to get especially given the wither skeletons powerful effect. Then after that you still need to kill the Wither itself which is extremely difficult given that even with diamond armor you will take a ton of damage via the Wither effect.
Now something I would love to see added to the block is an ability for it to differentiate between materials giving better effects for each type of block. Iron giving weaker effects, Gold giving better effects, Emerald giving fantastic effects, and diamond giving effects that are down right powerful. This would also add an aspect on mixed block pyramids.
Ehh... You know that Smite is better against Wither right?
In that, the Wither is even easier. I'm testing out everything... I killed the wither with 64 instant healing 2 potions... That means I am being healed and it's dying.. No dying for me! Yay!
Ok its completely obvious that your trolling, and trolling hard at that. The fact is that the pyramid takes up a very large amount of materials, Even just using iron it would be required that you have 1476 ingots to create the full powered beacon (Something that no matter what you say to the contrary is not an easy task, saying that you can achieve that in 7 hours is complete bull). To top it off you need to get three wither skulls which are a very rare drop that is not easy to get especially given the wither skeletons powerful effect. Then after that you still need to kill the Wither itself which is extremely difficult given that even with diamond armor you will take a ton of damage via the Wither effect.
Now something I would love to see added to the block is an ability for it to differentiate between materials giving better effects for each type of block. Iron giving weaker effects, Gold giving better effects, Emerald giving fantastic effects, and diamond giving effects that are down right powerful. This would also add an aspect on mixed block pyramids.
Diamond is more common than emerald, that's prone to extreme abuse. Yes.. I know diamond is more powerful than emerald though. Also for the Wither to ever be a problem... They need to add more mechanics.. As of right now it can't get off 2 shots before it's half way on health. I previously suggested to Jens that to make this Boss fight truly difficult he should make the wither split into 3 different mobs once it's hp hits 0, thus resetting the process. Each mob would also have a different fighting mechanism where one would be range, the other melee and the third something that hasn't really been thought about.. Some kind of magic?
No it doesn't, you just have the materials where the fight doesn't matter anymore.
Welcome to end game minecraft
Minecraft's point is the progressively make everything easier and easier to get with better and better materials until you can achieve anything you want
Maybe I just take the game too hardcore style? Having too much of everything like I am playing Tekkit, but actually playing vanilla.
Ok, I'll explain carefully:
according to RedBox1337 it'll take 2304 iron ingots to create the biggest piramid.
In my experience, after an hour of excavating an cave, I'll have about 2 stacks of iron ore. thats 128 iron ingots. so it'll take 18 hours of continously excavating an cave to collect all the ingots.
Then, you have to collect wither skeleton skulls, I can't find any information about collecting these skulls so I can only guess the time it'll take. lets say about 5 hours(the skeletons are rare, and the drops are a rare drop)
then, you have to fight the wither, wich is the least time consuming. lest say it'll take you 10 minutes.
And now everything is done and you anly have to build the beacon. that's 23 hours and 10 minutes, completely ignoring the fact that you have to start from scratch(when in a new world). it'll take you about 1,5 hours to get a portal. plus any other time you're building an home, farming, walking around, doing other stuff~6 hours.
And the final number is: 30 hours and 40 minutes.
Ok you got me there. You don't need to play 24/7 to get a beacon. it can be done in just a merely 30 hours. Even if you're a very fast player, and your only goal is to get the beacon it's still going to take atleast 16 hours.
You play 7 hours a week, and start a new world every week. So you're not telling me you build a beacon every week in just 7 hours.
As of right now it seems quite possible. I have friends who take 30 minutes to get a nether portal open and have potions brewing for the Ender Dragon. They have formulated together a mining mechanism that works to provide the most output on ores and least on worthless cobble. Aka strip-mining. I am pretty sure that obtaining a beacon block can be done fairly quickly. Like you said, it's also based on luck for the rare drops. All I can say right now is that the Wither is an easy fight and the diamond and obsidian needed is not difficult either. The skulls will probably take up the majority of the play time for anyone because they need to be able to win the $5000 lottery to obtain them. I have only been testing this snapshot for about an hour now, so I have a bit more testing to do.
At minimum, in order to get the beacon block working I would need 84 iron, 3 diamonds, 3 wither skeleton heads, 13 obsidian AND kill the Wither. And that is not including the resources need to actually kill the Wither.
Over powered? No. Underpowered? Yes, but justified as it is essentially a post game item.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I use the FTB modpack, because it's fun, and extremely convenient.
I just downloaded the snapshot from today and from what I have played I am enjoying it a lot. Now, of course, to test this new stuff out I hopped right into creative mode and went to town on spawning endless amounts of Wither Boss' and started tinkering with item frames.
(Start here for no background story)
Problem:
But when I started to tinker with the Beacon Block, I came up with the realization that even with the semi-to-not-so difficult crafting recipe. I am still positive that this block is completely overpowered. From what I see in it, the cost to craft is not very much, even with having to kill Wither and or collecting the heads to spawn the Wither. The platform being iron/gold/diamond/emerald is pretty easy to manage too.
Suggestion to fix this problem: So to decrease the over-poweredness (not a word, but go with me) I suggest making the Beacon block consume something to power it. What I suggest is Nether Stars that were added in this snapshot.
Now I know what you're thinking.. Why does it matter? You would need to make a huge pyramid to make the thing worthwhile to consume anything. That cost would override the means of using such a block. It would be better off not being added if it was like that.
I see where that's coming from and I understand that completely. I just think especially for the people who would use this block to give them an upper hand in a mob trap to kill things faster.. An endless power boost is something I personally see as a broken mechanic to the gameplay of Minecraft.
Anyways, please leave your comments on this post and reply with your suggestions or concerns or whatever you want to say! I suggest you keep the thread on topic. I'll try and reply ASAP and if a suggestion gets released that I personally see as better fit, I will add it to the thread and let people compare.
https://geminiservers.net - List your Minecraft server for free!
I responded to this in the post already, but all I am saying is it's prone to abuse especially on multiplayer. I understand where you are coming from though.
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Edit: Not to mention most mob traps can leave mobs with 1 hit worth of damage anyway, making it so that the power boost wouldn't benefit them in the slightest
I'm pretty sure people who don't put much effort into what they do (Me) can get pretty far as I have managed to collect countless amounts of materials ranging from coal to diamonds and have lost all uses for them. The server I made about a year ago also consisted of some people who would log on for an hour and already have started making potions because of how easy it is to obtain everything now..
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See, I have the opposite problem... I tend to be overloaded with all those materials and have no use for them at all.
I have acknowledged this in the post previous to your comment.
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I have over 100 worlds I start a new one almost every week.
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Yeah, okay.
(See bottom response)
I don't play 24/7 I have a job, I have things to do with family, I have a girlfriend I spend time with. I play no more than 7 hours a week.
Diamonds are not rare anymore.. They actually never have been, you use a specific mining method and the return on diamonds with provide you with more than enough to use for a pyramid. Obsidian is tedious none the less, but very manageable as all you need to do is make an obsidian farm. The Wither is not difficult to kill. I'd say it's roughly the same as the Ender Dragon, but takes less time because it doesn't fly away.
https://geminiservers.net - List your Minecraft server for free!
Not to sound insulting, but this just sounds like yet another thread complaining about something that isn't that big of a deal.
I'm sorry, I guess that most other people haven't really tried to collect an over abundance of resources. Basically,, what I am reading from these comments is that the server I had started over a year ago is the only server where players have too much stuff without using the /give ability and collecting everything by hand. By that means, I guess a difficulty boost is in order for myself and the other players. (And no SuitCraft is not my server)
I agree with the underpowered range. It's not complaining at all. I will use it either way, I'll probably just abuse it though ahaha.
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The maximum radius is THIRTY BLOCKS. What you receive is your choice of one of a handful of low power effects in a small area.
You don't have to trust me. You don't know me. You don't know what the truth is in what I said, but I know what the truth is.
Umm, not sure if that works out really.. So you're saying I basically get too much stuff because I play no more than 7 hours a week?
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Well, if you can abuse it, then prove it. The entire point of snapshots are to test things out. If you can figure out a way to overpower the Beacon block and offer an oversized advantage in doing so, then do it and report back with your findings. I'm extremely certain others here would be interested in it if you can do so, because it isn't until exploits and instances of too much power are discovered that they can be fixed.
Alright so I just tested it out, it took 15 hits with a sharpness 4 + strength 2 potion + beacon: strength bonus. The Wither needs an upgrade >.>
Which I will, but I'm not sure I will release such abuses to the public.
https://geminiservers.net - List your Minecraft server for free!
Welcome to end game minecraft
Minecraft's point is the progressively make everything easier and easier to get with better and better materials until you can achieve anything you want
Now something I would love to see added to the block is an ability for it to differentiate between materials giving better effects for each type of block. Iron giving weaker effects, Gold giving better effects, Emerald giving fantastic effects, and diamond giving effects that are down right powerful. This would also add an aspect on mixed block pyramids.
In that, the Wither is even easier. I'm testing out everything... I killed the wither with 64 instant healing 2 potions... That means I am being healed and it's dying.. No dying for me! Yay!
Diamond is more common than emerald, that's prone to extreme abuse. Yes.. I know diamond is more powerful than emerald though. Also for the Wither to ever be a problem... They need to add more mechanics.. As of right now it can't get off 2 shots before it's half way on health. I previously suggested to Jens that to make this Boss fight truly difficult he should make the wither split into 3 different mobs once it's hp hits 0, thus resetting the process. Each mob would also have a different fighting mechanism where one would be range, the other melee and the third something that hasn't really been thought about.. Some kind of magic?
Maybe I just take the game too hardcore style? Having too much of everything like I am playing Tekkit, but actually playing vanilla.
https://geminiservers.net - List your Minecraft server for free!
As of right now it seems quite possible. I have friends who take 30 minutes to get a nether portal open and have potions brewing for the Ender Dragon. They have formulated together a mining mechanism that works to provide the most output on ores and least on worthless cobble. Aka strip-mining. I am pretty sure that obtaining a beacon block can be done fairly quickly. Like you said, it's also based on luck for the rare drops. All I can say right now is that the Wither is an easy fight and the diamond and obsidian needed is not difficult either. The skulls will probably take up the majority of the play time for anyone because they need to be able to win the $5000 lottery to obtain them. I have only been testing this snapshot for about an hour now, so I have a bit more testing to do.
https://geminiservers.net - List your Minecraft server for free!
Anyone can reach end game if they have a year
Over powered? No. Underpowered? Yes, but justified as it is essentially a post game item.