I don't click on web adverts - ever. If I was to block them, I don't believe that I would be hurting anyone because I wouldn't be responding to the adverts anyway. I wouldn't be contributing to the number of hits on the advertiser's site with or without the advert. I would, however (and I accept) be contributing to the statistic of how many people simply don't see the advert and thereby contribute to any potential advertiser's doubt as to whether the advert was worth placing in the first place.
clicks aren't all that matters. I don't handle our adverts, but I know we used to be impression based, which was advert loads. So yes, blocking them does matter, whether or not you click them is irrelevant.
Quote from Enjay »
That's a fair point, but it's also one that companies like Curse simply must already take account of in their calculations. They can easily find out what the market share for various browsers is. They can easily find out how many users of a particular browser use an add blocker (a significant proportion of Firefox users I would imagine) and they must already factor that into their business model. To not do that would be negligent. They need to know the shape of the market. The shape of the market includes people who use ad blockers (the 30% figure that you quote seems reasonable). With all that factored in, they (and other companies) still use adverts and still generate enough revenue from them to make them viable. If things change, if for example the number of people using ad blocking increases, Curse (et al) will change and adapt with the changing circumstances. If they want to survive that's what they have to do, and I'm sure they will.
They do account for it, the point is that if people didn't block adverts we would be able to have less. Assume we have 100 users and 50 block those adverts, so for those who don't we display 2 adverts. If nobody blocked adverts we'd only need 1 advert.
It's selfish because you're a) hurting the website and :cool.gif: making it worse for those who do accept they should view adverts to support the website.
I don't expect to change your behaviour and I won't argue to, it's pointless and it is no longer my place to say, but in my opinion (not that of curse or this forum) it's immoral to block adverts when they're offsetting the costs you incur for the website operators.
Never heard of Curse (or even played WoW) before so I really don't have any opinion on the merge (or whatever you want to call it). My only concern is the mass influx of trolls and basic idiocy that comes with joining a web group. While I can understand the reasoning behind the decision, I fear that the forum will turn into another Gamefaqs. After CjayC sold the site to CNet things did change, some for the better, but most for the worse. A troll/idiocy influx being the biggest. Pair that with the god awful ToS changes and you've got yourself Nazi Germany on the internet.
Anyways, my only question is, would another fundraiser worked before joining the network? I would've gladly donated again (much more this time due to a recent promotion) to the forum/wiki. I may not be a frequent poster, but the forum is a website I spend alot of time on.
Anyways, my only question is, would another fundraiser worked before joining the network? I would've gladly donated again (much more this time due to a recent promotion) to the forum/wiki. I may not be a frequent poster, but the forum is a website I spend alot of time on.
unfortunately this wouldn't have worked, the time investment we've put into this forum and will continue to put in could not be covered by donations unless every user who previously donated was willing to triple their donation and donate every month :sad.gif:
Also regarding your query about trolls, how so? I don't understand what issue they present, although maybe I'm naive?
There's a lot to not like about Curse but what is with this whole "they give me a virus" baloonjuice?
I've DLed stuff from them for years (WoW related) and never ever got infected. Of course I'm not happy-click-person and typically scan everything I download before I open it.
This whole virus nonsense seems to have started with the rash of infected files ALL (I repeat, ALL the WoW addon sites got.) WoWInterface, Curse, WoWUI (IncGamers WoW Site), and I think one other all got nailed. Curse and WoWInterface where incredibly fast with the response. WoWUI got hit the worst with not only addons begin infected but someone injecting their addon updater as well.
Throwing around accusation of infections can do massive harm to websites. WoWUI can attest to that.
I'm sorry to say this but most users wouldn't know where an infection happened nine times out of ten. They aren't meant to. Drive by installs (Like many other infection types) are meant to be silent and lay dormant.
So while I have issues with Curse on a wider scope, I can not, and never will fault them for this virus nonsense. They handled it like pros.
Also regarding your query about trolls, how so? I don't understand what issue they present, although maybe I'm naive?
Basically, just a massive pain in the ass. While they are still present here, it'll get much worse. Though nothing moderators can't handle. And yes, I'm sure there will be an issue with game mods as well, but again, I have faith enough in the regular posters to police up any infected mods. Trolls can be an issue, but when they start posting virus infected mods it'll get nasty.
Honestly, I really don't want the forums going to hell. Like I said, GF has become a spawning ground of idiocy, and I really don't want to see that happen here. But maybe I'm being a little over dramatic.
Anyways, I'll always support the decisions you guys make.
I have ad blocking installed, but not set up to block this site - I still see its ads. Generally speaking, I don't use the automatic lists, I only block manually.
The only time I really ad block is when the ads interfere with viewing the site or flash so much it almost makes me dizzy. Generally speaking, I understand the purpose of ads and allow them through.
But there is such a thing as going overboard, and there is the rare instance where I have to set up a block.
Actually, the primary reason I use it is for blocking images - some avatars here are less than tasteful, so I block them. So far, I've blocked the avatars of 11 users. Racial references, sexual references usually get blocked. Stuff like Lodus' avatar.
I haven't seen a virus from Curse's client, and I think I missed that period where everybody was hit. I use the client heavily, and I have a total of 178 addons installed (although not all are actively used), so yeah, I trust them.
Getting a virus from an addon itself is almost unheard of, since Lua is easily sandboxed, and in WoW only uses the APIs they supply, which they control very tightly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When all is said and done, Will you have said more than you have done?
Good. I just want to know this: This is purely a deal with redstonewire, so Curse can never alter the price or payment arrangements for Minecraft itself, can they?
Hey Ste, we tried to talk to all forum and wiki staff, we managed a few but couldn't find most of you on IRC, we wanted to rush out the announcement and didn't have time to come and wait for everyone here, sorry!
Also no, this is 100% JUST with rsw, nothing to do with Mojang.
#rsw on irc.esper.net to come talk to us, we're going to sort a lot of **** out over the next week!
Quote from Stakhanov »
I don't recall reading "you must not block adverts the site relies on" in the terms of use upon registering here.
Even targeted ads , which are quite different from the televised garbage people are used to , have no point to the forum users. If I wanted a different time waster than minecraft , I'd rely on the Other Games forum , not some crappy animated banners.
Generally speaking , any advertising is shameless aggression and there is absolutely nothing wrong with protecting our sanity from that. Stop asking users to willingly suffer for the sake of unregulated internet economics. If you don't like that your place is popular , make it a paying site.
It's my opinion on morals, not the law. You're free (legally) to block adverts and if you want to go for it, but in my opinion it's wrong. As I said before, I don't represent anyone but myself, but I think it'd morally... immoral to take something and refuse to give back what is requested. If we didn't want you to view adverts we wouldn't put them there.
If you want to discuss it further PM me, a mistake on my part to talk about it here when we're discussing the curse partnership!
Quote from Stakhanov »
I can't say I'm too pleased with that kind of association with curse , but I guess it doesn't matter as long as the forums remain just forums. Extra features I don't care about , no problem if they can be opted out.
Nothing is planned to change and we will always consult users on anything we're considering, we want to make this something good for the forums!
This is ********, after seeing what happened with Zybez (ads everywhere), I will never visit here again nor will I bother with minecraft. Notch is a ****ing sellout and is a shallow piece of ****.
Personally, all this talk of ads, ad blockers, and the new Curse ownership has finally pushed me to install an ad blocker. Just knowing the extent that ads began to appear on MMO-Champion.com and similar sites once they became a part of the Curse network, along with the nice banner ad on my screen every time I navigate to a new page, pushed me over.
I respect this website's need to pay for its services, but I hope they also respect my right to not have my browsing habits utilized by and fund advertising agencies.
EDIT: Also, is it just me, or was the quick reply button removed to force new page loads, and thus more advertising? This alone has me worried.
This is ********, after seeing what happened with Zybez (ads everywhere), I will never visit here again nor will I bother with minecraft. Notch is a ****ing sellout and is a shallow piece of ****.
Go **** yourselves.
How many times must we re-iterate this? The forums and wiki are NOT connected with Notch in ANY way. We are community ran.
Quote from Devwar »
Personally, all this talk of ads, ad blockers, and the new Curse ownership has finally pushed me to install an ad blocker. Just knowing the extent that ads began to appear on MMO-Champion.com and similar sites once they became a part of the Curse network, along with the nice banner ad on my screen every time I navigate to a new page, pushed me over.
I respect this website's need to pay for its services, but I hope they also respect my right to not have my browsing habits utilized by and fund advertising agencies.
The adverts you see now are the agreed adverts, that won't change.
THIS BETTER NOT BE LIKE STEAM.
OMG IF ITS STEAM.
I WILL BURN THE WOOOORRRLLLLDDDDD!!!
GO MY CREEPER ARMY!
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
/rant
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Looking for a clan..to fill the hole..in my foot...
Quote from aztech101 »
minecraft is like life, you start by beating wood, explore a lot of new things, settle down a bit, finally get that diamond, and then you life starts to suck and you go through hell
The adverts you see now are the agreed adverts, that won't change.
I threw an edit in there after you responded. Any information on that?
Quote from Devwar »
EDIT: Also, is it just me, or was the quick reply button removed to force new page loads, and thus more advertising? This alone has me worried.
Ha, although that's an excellent idea to force more ad revenue, the answer is much simpler.
We have had horrible server load issues recently and part of this has caused a weird bug where 50% of the time when you submit a post the forum "loses" it, so then when you click "post" you're redirected to the thread with the post gone. If you used quick reply to post then you'd lose it, because clicking back returns you to the thread without your post saved, if you did it via the form then you click back and your post is saved.
Quick reply has been gone for a couple of days now (before this deal) and it'll be back when we move to curse's servers and we're not just trying to keep the forum running, it was a measure I took to ensure users weren't losing their posts as it happens more and more right now, once we can track down the issue and fix it we'll be back to having quick reply enabled.
I guess we could enable it now, but lots of posts would be lost and would need to be rewritten, if everyone is okay with that then sure, but I figured you'd not be, your choice.
Ha, although that's an excellent idea to force more ad revenue, the answer is much simpler.
We have had horrible server load issues recently and part of this has caused a weird bug where 50% of the time when you submit a post the forum "loses" it, so then when you click "post" you're redirected to the thread with the post gone. If you used quick reply to post then you'd lose it, because clicking back returns you to the thread without your post saved, if you did it via the form then you click back and your post is saved.
Quick reply has been gone for a couple of days now (before this deal) and it'll be back when we move to curse's servers and we're not just trying to keep the forum running, it was a measure I took to ensure users weren't losing their posts as it happens more and more right now, once we can track down the issue and fix it we'll be back to having quick reply enabled.
I guess we could enable it now, but lots of posts would be lost and would need to be rewritten, if everyone is okay with that then sure, but I figured you'd not be, your choice.
Edit: Haha Enjay beat me.
That is a much more reasonable explanation. Those eaten posts were getting annoying. Guess it is just the paranoia of Curse and paranoia of having to deal with streaming full screen videos when accessing some of their websites. Pain to turn those things off...
I just switched my ad blocker off just to see what the fuss was about. Two banner ads? One top one bottom? If that's all it is, it's hardly obtrusive. Of course, IMO, it does look uglier. I am also on a particularly slow internet connection due to an extremely long phone line between the exchange and where I live so I did actually notice an increase in the time that the page took to load fully.
My real incentive to block ads is the faster page load times of not having to render the things. Although Chrome has built-in semi ad-blocking by requiring you click the plugin to start it up. I bet that is worse to advertisers than just an ad blocker which loads but fails to render the content.
I didn't know you guys controlled what content minecraft releases. Because that's what he was asking. Will the deal with Curse cause a premium membership to get more minecraft content than non-members. Which is wrong.
Ah, my mistake. I misunderstood the question, I thought he was asking about content via the forums, like special forum sections.
This is a deal with the forum and wiki, NOT Minecraft or Mojang, it has nothing to do with Minecraft as a game or Mojang as a company, although we've spoke to Mojang and they are fine with the deal, they are in no way connected.
Good deal, I just wanted to verify that to make sure there weren't any crazy raging over it. Thanks for clarifying so quickly lol It was a good choice joining up with Curse by the way. Did they offer or did you come to them with an offer?
good i was scare for a few second too :tongue.gif:
I just switched my ad blocker off just to see what the fuss was about. Two banner ads? One top one bottom? If that's all it is, it's hardly obtrusive. Of course, IMO, it does look uglier. I am also on a particularly slow internet connection due to an extremely long phone line between the exchange and where I live so I did actually notice an increase in the time that the page took to load fully.
I actually didn't notice the ads there for a minute, because honestly there's ads glued to EVERYTHING EVER, not just the internets. Remember when hockey boards used to be white? Didn't think so. NASCAR is a giant oval advertisement with some car racing thrown in as an afterthought. Personally I tune out ads everywhere because really, most of the stuff they try to push (here and everywhere else) is pretty crap to begin with. When you see the process behind the ads then they all lose their power. I feel badly for you though Enjay, as internet ads do add extra strain to a hurting connection.
If this is all we're going to get for a stable server without 500-class errors then yaaaay ads! :biggrin.gif: My only concern is more comprehensive moderation in the light of gaining access to a wider user base. As it is we don't have enough coverage across the clock. With a potentially larger user number it'd be nice to have at least one person on guard all the time (not the same guy! :biggrin.gif: ) to nip buds instead of five people coming on later and doing mass cleanup.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from will_holmes »
Quote from anon »
Every time I come to these forums, I think more and more that I'm the only person who plays Minecraft normally.
Every time I come to these forums, I think more and more that there is no such thing as playing Minecraft normally.
If this is all we're going to get for a stable server without 500-class errors then yaaaay ads! :biggrin.gif: My only concern is more comprehensive moderation in the light of gaining access to a wider user base. As it is we don't have enough coverage across the clock. With a potentially larger user number it'd be nice to have at least one person on guard all the time (not the same guy! :biggrin.gif: ) to nip buds instead of five people coming on later and doing mass cleanup.
This is why this deal is fantastic, instead of aera and wedtm being focused on just keeping the sites running, they (and I, but I had no excuse for before :tongue.gif:) will be able to focus on a) moderation, :cool.gif: improving the sites with features etc and c) hiring more moderators, currently it's a terrible process that we go through!
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Adminclicks aren't all that matters. I don't handle our adverts, but I know we used to be impression based, which was advert loads. So yes, blocking them does matter, whether or not you click them is irrelevant.
They do account for it, the point is that if people didn't block adverts we would be able to have less. Assume we have 100 users and 50 block those adverts, so for those who don't we display 2 adverts. If nobody blocked adverts we'd only need 1 advert.
It's selfish because you're a) hurting the website and :cool.gif: making it worse for those who do accept they should view adverts to support the website.
I don't expect to change your behaviour and I won't argue to, it's pointless and it is no longer my place to say, but in my opinion (not that of curse or this forum) it's immoral to block adverts when they're offsetting the costs you incur for the website operators.
Anyways, my only question is, would another fundraiser worked before joining the network? I would've gladly donated again (much more this time due to a recent promotion) to the forum/wiki. I may not be a frequent poster, but the forum is a website I spend alot of time on.
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Adminunfortunately this wouldn't have worked, the time investment we've put into this forum and will continue to put in could not be covered by donations unless every user who previously donated was willing to triple their donation and donate every month :sad.gif:
Also regarding your query about trolls, how so? I don't understand what issue they present, although maybe I'm naive?
I've DLed stuff from them for years (WoW related) and never ever got infected. Of course I'm not happy-click-person and typically scan everything I download before I open it.
This whole virus nonsense seems to have started with the rash of infected files ALL (I repeat, ALL the WoW addon sites got.) WoWInterface, Curse, WoWUI (IncGamers WoW Site), and I think one other all got nailed. Curse and WoWInterface where incredibly fast with the response. WoWUI got hit the worst with not only addons begin infected but someone injecting their addon updater as well.
Throwing around accusation of infections can do massive harm to websites. WoWUI can attest to that.
I'm sorry to say this but most users wouldn't know where an infection happened nine times out of ten. They aren't meant to. Drive by installs (Like many other infection types) are meant to be silent and lay dormant.
So while I have issues with Curse on a wider scope, I can not, and never will fault them for this virus nonsense. They handled it like pros.
Basically, just a massive pain in the ass. While they are still present here, it'll get much worse. Though nothing moderators can't handle. And yes, I'm sure there will be an issue with game mods as well, but again, I have faith enough in the regular posters to police up any infected mods. Trolls can be an issue, but when they start posting virus infected mods it'll get nasty.
Honestly, I really don't want the forums going to hell. Like I said, GF has become a spawning ground of idiocy, and I really don't want to see that happen here. But maybe I'm being a little over dramatic.
Anyways, I'll always support the decisions you guys make.
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Curse PremiumThe only time I really ad block is when the ads interfere with viewing the site or flash so much it almost makes me dizzy. Generally speaking, I understand the purpose of ads and allow them through.
But there is such a thing as going overboard, and there is the rare instance where I have to set up a block.
Actually, the primary reason I use it is for blocking images - some avatars here are less than tasteful, so I block them. So far, I've blocked the avatars of 11 users. Racial references, sexual references usually get blocked. Stuff like Lodus' avatar.
I haven't seen a virus from Curse's client, and I think I missed that period where everybody was hit. I use the client heavily, and I have a total of 178 addons installed (although not all are actively used), so yeah, I trust them.
Getting a virus from an addon itself is almost unheard of, since Lua is easily sandboxed, and in WoW only uses the APIs they supply, which they control very tightly.
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AdminHey Ste, we tried to talk to all forum and wiki staff, we managed a few but couldn't find most of you on IRC, we wanted to rush out the announcement and didn't have time to come and wait for everyone here, sorry!
Also no, this is 100% JUST with rsw, nothing to do with Mojang.
#rsw on irc.esper.net to come talk to us, we're going to sort a lot of **** out over the next week!
It's my opinion on morals, not the law. You're free (legally) to block adverts and if you want to go for it, but in my opinion it's wrong. As I said before, I don't represent anyone but myself, but I think it'd morally... immoral to take something and refuse to give back what is requested. If we didn't want you to view adverts we wouldn't put them there.
If you want to discuss it further PM me, a mistake on my part to talk about it here when we're discussing the curse partnership!
Nothing is planned to change and we will always consult users on anything we're considering, we want to make this something good for the forums!
Go **** yourselves.
I respect this website's need to pay for its services, but I hope they also respect my right to not have my browsing habits utilized by and fund advertising agencies.
EDIT: Also, is it just me, or was the quick reply button removed to force new page loads, and thus more advertising? This alone has me worried.
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AdminHow many times must we re-iterate this? The forums and wiki are NOT connected with Notch in ANY way. We are community ran.
The adverts you see now are the agreed adverts, that won't change.
OMG IF ITS STEAM.
I WILL BURN THE WOOOORRRLLLLDDDDD!!!
GO MY CREEPER ARMY!
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
/rant
I threw an edit in there after you responded. Any information on that?
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AdminHa, although that's an excellent idea to force more ad revenue, the answer is much simpler.
We have had horrible server load issues recently and part of this has caused a weird bug where 50% of the time when you submit a post the forum "loses" it, so then when you click "post" you're redirected to the thread with the post gone. If you used quick reply to post then you'd lose it, because clicking back returns you to the thread without your post saved, if you did it via the form then you click back and your post is saved.
Quick reply has been gone for a couple of days now (before this deal) and it'll be back when we move to curse's servers and we're not just trying to keep the forum running, it was a measure I took to ensure users weren't losing their posts as it happens more and more right now, once we can track down the issue and fix it we'll be back to having quick reply enabled.
I guess we could enable it now, but lots of posts would be lost and would need to be rewritten, if everyone is okay with that then sure, but I figured you'd not be, your choice.
Edit: Haha Enjay beat me.
That is a much more reasonable explanation. Those eaten posts were getting annoying. Guess it is just the paranoia of Curse and paranoia of having to deal with streaming full screen videos when accessing some of their websites. Pain to turn those things off...
My real incentive to block ads is the faster page load times of not having to render the things. Although Chrome has built-in semi ad-blocking by requiring you click the plugin to start it up. I bet that is worse to advertisers than just an ad blocker which loads but fails to render the content.
good i was scare for a few second too :tongue.gif:
I actually didn't notice the ads there for a minute, because honestly there's ads glued to EVERYTHING EVER, not just the internets. Remember when hockey boards used to be white? Didn't think so. NASCAR is a giant oval advertisement with some car racing thrown in as an afterthought. Personally I tune out ads everywhere because really, most of the stuff they try to push (here and everywhere else) is pretty crap to begin with. When you see the process behind the ads then they all lose their power. I feel badly for you though Enjay, as internet ads do add extra strain to a hurting connection.
If this is all we're going to get for a stable server without 500-class errors then yaaaay ads! :biggrin.gif: My only concern is more comprehensive moderation in the light of gaining access to a wider user base. As it is we don't have enough coverage across the clock. With a potentially larger user number it'd be nice to have at least one person on guard all the time (not the same guy! :biggrin.gif: ) to nip buds instead of five people coming on later and doing mass cleanup.
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AdminThis is why this deal is fantastic, instead of aera and wedtm being focused on just keeping the sites running, they (and I, but I had no excuse for before :tongue.gif:) will be able to focus on a) moderation, :cool.gif: improving the sites with features etc and c) hiring more moderators, currently it's a terrible process that we go through!