People keep replying to this without quoting the original or pointing out the misunderstanding that caused all the argument in the first place.
Quote from Piratebay »
Quote from JC_Gucci »
Maybe you should consider uploading older versions. There is no harm in it, the game is unplayable without an account (or crack). And by baning users for sharing the older version on your forums you will only send them to other download sites like piratebay and such that actually let you download the cracked version so you dont even have to pay for an account.
He's asking for Mojang to host older versions on the site for paid users. He's not asking for permission for users to host anything.
Quote from Grugsy »
And yes..you are damned right I am going to apply my American expectation that people get properly paid for their work and their products. I don't care what country you are from, if you can't agree to the fact that my expectation "should be", you are in fact wrong.
No, that's your opinion. If they don't agree, all it means is that they disagree with *you*, it doesn't make them wrong. Property rights are a cultural construct, if the culture stops agreeing to them, poof! They go away. Sure, that's not likely to ever happen in most countries as they presently exist, but it does have to happen one person at a time...
Quote from steelcrow »
For clarification purposes. It's not illegal even in the usa to provide a link to a file. It's illegal to host that file.
Do a bit of Googling for news articles and you'll find that DMCA takedowns and criminal charges for simply linking are, in fact, happening.
Final comment about backups and the update process - I did not look at the forums first, simply ran Minecraft as usual, and it updated as soon as I logged in. I had to THEN come to the forums to see what had changed, only to realize it meant my client was broken for all multiplayer servers until they upgraded. When the new patcher was released, the old one should have been disabled, but they have that saying about hindsight... Not a big deal for me this weekend anyway, my good power supply blew this week and I won't get the replacement until Tuesday. :smile.gif:
Some of the posts in that thread are hilarious. SELL the old versions of the game? To whom? New players at a discount price? Old players who already own the newest version? In the latter example, why doesn't Microsoft just release automatic updates that break Windows features and offer to sell you the old version over again? I would have to read through the EULA to be sure, but I'd bet money on it without looking that the terms make Mojang able to revoke your license at any time, and make that specific to older versions - specifically, when a patch comes out, it would be a copyright violation to continue playing or even possessing the older versions. They aren't going to do that obviously, and as long as they aren't, giving us rollback options in the patcher or on the website would be awesome.
I never made a backup of the resources folder, and I accidentally deleted it, urg..... also, when I log in to the launcher, the minecraft-size window pops up, black, then closes automatically, without even showing the mojang logo, is that a result of the resources folder thing or what?
backup your saves and then delete the .minecraft folder entirely... run the launcher..then put your save folder back
Maybe you should consider uploading older versions. There is no harm in it, the game is unplayable without an account (or crack). And by baning users for sharing the older version on your forums you will only send them to other download sites like piratebay and such that actually let you download the cracked version so you dont even have to pay for an account.
I won't be breaking any rules here, but I just want to add, for political and personal reasons:
**** the DMCA and EULAs. **** them both. As an individual I ignore them, and hard, always will.
Ignore them all you want, you're still bound by them because you agreed to them. If you want to ignore them, don't click "agree" on them. You can't sing one tune and dance to another.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Im confused as why it is illegal to distribute the jar. I know Notch dissuades it but bukkit and other server mods are able to do this even though there is a difference since the intentions are not bad just people wanting to downgrade I see no problem with it.
That's not a mod. That's an external program, or "tool". A mod is collection of modified Minecraft java class files. Whether that's legal or not has nothing to do with mods being legal.
Quote from Damien711 »
Im confused as why it is illegal to distribute the jar. I know Notch dissuades it but bukkit and other server mods are able to do this even though there is a difference since the intentions are not bad just people wanting to downgrade I see no problem with it.
It's illegal because Minecraft is Notch's work, and Notch said it is illegal. By purchasing and playing the game, you agreed to his rules. Those other server mods either are illegal, or they have permission from Notch to do what they do.
Im confused as why it is illegal to distribute the jar. I know Notch dissuades it but bukkit and other server mods are able to do this even though there is a difference since the intentions are not bad just people wanting to downgrade I see no problem with it.
The .jar file is considered propriety content, and is under copyright laws such as the DMCA. Redistributing the .jar file is the equivalent of making an .iso copy of any other game out there, like Call of Duty, and making it available to everyone for free. You can be charged under the same law as those guilty of distributing cracked copies of a game.
It's not illegal to retain a local copy of past updates because they are considered purchased by yourself, and as such you become a retainer of the original work and can make as many copies of the game as you like as long as you do not give it to others. Selling your copy of the game on the other hand is also legal, because it is under the same laws that video rental places are safe under when they temporarily sell a copy of copyrighted material that they purchased themselves.
This is mostly for other texture artists (inexperienced or not), but I will say this so that this is not confusing to anyone.
Are the texture files (the .png files) are redistributable, modified or unmodified? Because otherwise texturepacks distributed on the forums would be illegal and would need to be removed, correct? Therefore, one can assume that the custom textures are either not counted under this (as they have official support). But I am not certain about the default textures.
Keep looking for reasons to hate Americans and assume you have the right to speak for entire countries. And yes..you are damned right I am going to apply my American expectation that people get properly paid for their work and their products. I don't care what country you are from, if you can't agree to the fact that my expectation "should be", you are in fact wrong.
Do you mean the same way you have the right to speak for everyone who uses the game? Like this:
Quote from Grugsy »
idk what everyones smp problems are..I run a craftbukkit server with several mods...and bukkit+ mods had a stable,working release 7 hours after the patch dropped.
Interesting, it seems that now YOU are making a sweeping generalization for the entire Minecraft population.
Here is my 2cents,
I AM American, and I am completely ashamed of the asshats whom were bought and paid to create the DMCA. I purchased this game for $20 when it was at version 1.3 and it is ridiculous that I am unable to redownload it if needed. (Sorry Grugsy, but just because you are perfect doesn't mean everyone else has the same exact configuration as you).
The DMCA only hurts those who follow it. It was never about protecting the little guy, the small time developer. It was made to maximize the profit of the major corporation who have intellectual property by the balls. It was made so you have to buy the same movie/song over and over again for each device you own - Computer, Xbox, Iphone, Ipod, Etc. Give my corrupt government enough time, and I am sure they will find a way to legislate a way to criminalize THINKING about a song in your head without paying money.
All those open source projects out there leave past versions of software to download. I have never contributed a cent to Ubuntu, Debian, Gnome, Bukkit, etc - and all these groups provide previous versions in their repository of choice (not to mention it is TOTALLY legal to forever redistrubute things like Ubuntu).
Meanwhile as I paying customer I have no legal way to get something I purchased, Minecraft 1.3 .
I am American, and I say F*ck my country and its greedy mindset that will eventually lead to our collapse.
It IS against the EULA you agreed to, so at the very least you're guilty of breach of contract if you do host the files. How serious is that really?
well, probably not very but still, you said you wouldn't, even if you didn't realize it. lol but they should definitely host previous versions.
An EULA has never held up in a court of law, and in fact notch has changed his EULA at least once without requesting that the people who had agreed to the first EULA to agree to the second EULA. You know why an EULA has never held up in court? You can't verify who actually agreed to it or if they could have even been deemed mentally competent at the time they agreed to it. Furthermore it doesn't leave any sort of a reliable papertrail so it can be easily falsified.
If this many people are having issues with 1.4, then Mojang needs to add the ability the downgrade to previous versions, rather than relying on banning legitimate customers who are unhappy with the current version.
If this many people are having issues with 1.4, then Mojang needs to add the ability the downgrade to previous versions, rather than relying on banning legitimate customers who are unhappy with the current version.
Mojang isn't banning anyone, the people running these forums are...
Again, there is a legal way of downgrading. It hardly matters whether it's official or not... viewtopic.php?f=1022&t=113094
I really do feel like this is a truly pathetic question to ask but have there been any cases of viruses being input into the png files? i just got a new computer and im still a little over protective :tongue.gif:
Images are data, not excecutable code. You can't get a virus from a .jpg or a .txt or a .png file. Virus use executable code to propagate.
*
It has been cases of data files abused, but are very rare and are more cracking than virus.
False.
Here's an example of a (former) PNG processing vulnerability that could read to code execution. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/securi ... 5-009.mspx
Basically there were some bugs in the code for processing PNG images in Windows Media Player and MSN Messenger that caused memory corruption under certain circumstances, which meant that an image could be created to trigger the bug such that parts of the image file are copied into memory and then executed as code. It's long since fixed but it shows that data files can unintentionally be executed as code if the program opening has security vulnerabilities (such as array overruns).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thread Ninja. Call me ED.
Quote from Tali »
Sssssshepard, the Creepersssss are ~ASssssssssUMING DIRECT CONTROL
I'm not sure why people are freaking out about 1.4. Both servers that I admin on are already back up with 1.4. If a server isn't up it's the admins fault, not notch's and not anybody else's.
It's nothing to do with servers being back up. It's the ungodly lag that now exists. My best friend who has had years of server admin experience, like myself had been running a 1.3 server and it ran incredibly well. We would stay up all night building things, soon as I upgraded to 1.4 and he did as well (server & client) it became unplayable , if i type something it takes about a minute for it to popup. most actions take between 30 seconds to a minute. Now if i run 1.4 locally single player it runs very fast.
It must be something on your end. All the servers I play have updated to 1.4 and the lag isnt any worse.
THIS \/
The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) is a United States copyright law that implements two 1996 treaties of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or services intended to circumvent measures (commonly known as digital rights management or DRM) that control access to copyrighted works.
Is nulled by this \/ http://www.minecraft.net/prepurchase.jsp
Here's what you get:
You get early access to the game to a discounted price!
You help fund the development of Minecraft
Custom skins in multiplayer
Once you've bought the game, it's yours. (1)No DRM.
DMCA SPECIFICALLY refers to only to DRM which as you can see until the above (1) is removed from his website and DRM is actually implimented (which it currently doesn't have) DMCA holds absolutely no sway in terms of legality.
The only thing that makes it so called illegal is this \/
The one major rule
Do not distribute anything I've made. This includes the client and the server software for the game. This also includes modified versions of anything I've made.
In order to maintain control of the project, I need all game downloads to come from a single central source. I hope you understand.
And besides before "installing" this software there is NO "prompt" asking if we have read and accept the EULA or Terms of Service for this software. So the ONLY thing this software has going for it is what is on the site "The One Major Rule" and his copyright (which i have yet to actually find the copyright other than him typing copyright mojang ab do not distrubute at the bottom of the page. So if someone wanted to challenge him in court they could win due to Not having the giant EULA he didn't want to make and Not having DRM implemented.
In my own opinion though, I do support not being able to roll back the versions due to this is a testing environment and he wants results from the latest version not from previous. Makes perfect sense and I fully support it.
But sadly (and gladly?) he hasn't implemented the actual legal measures to protect his game from redistributions as much as you may think. The DMCA and the EUCD (which is slightly more restrictive but only includes the European Union members) both only refer to by passing restrictions placed by the copyright holder, which the only restriction he has is the one major rule which may or may not hold up in court. Also the DMCA and EUCD only legally bind the USA and EU everyone else will have to check their own country's Laws on copyright infringement. For instance me... I can go an hour away from where I live and Legally do all the copyright infringement i want because that place has no such laws against it. As long as once I come back to my own country I do not continue the copyright infringement there isn't anything anyone can do about it.
Also people telling the mods on Minecraftforums.net to "fix" the game... you're stupid. They have no control over the game. Go email the actual developers. :sleep.gif:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Eventually, someone will, utterly by accident, click my reputation up.
He's asking for Mojang to host older versions on the site for paid users. He's not asking for permission for users to host anything.
No, that's your opinion. If they don't agree, all it means is that they disagree with *you*, it doesn't make them wrong. Property rights are a cultural construct, if the culture stops agreeing to them, poof! They go away. Sure, that's not likely to ever happen in most countries as they presently exist, but it does have to happen one person at a time...
Do a bit of Googling for news articles and you'll find that DMCA takedowns and criminal charges for simply linking are, in fact, happening.
Final comment about backups and the update process - I did not look at the forums first, simply ran Minecraft as usual, and it updated as soon as I logged in. I had to THEN come to the forums to see what had changed, only to realize it meant my client was broken for all multiplayer servers until they upgraded. When the new patcher was released, the old one should have been disabled, but they have that saying about hindsight... Not a big deal for me this weekend anyway, my good power supply blew this week and I won't get the replacement until Tuesday. :smile.gif:
If you have issues with it being legal, then all mods are illegal.
Some of the posts in that thread are hilarious. SELL the old versions of the game? To whom? New players at a discount price? Old players who already own the newest version? In the latter example, why doesn't Microsoft just release automatic updates that break Windows features and offer to sell you the old version over again? I would have to read through the EULA to be sure, but I'd bet money on it without looking that the terms make Mojang able to revoke your license at any time, and make that specific to older versions - specifically, when a patch comes out, it would be a copyright violation to continue playing or even possessing the older versions. They aren't going to do that obviously, and as long as they aren't, giving us rollback options in the patcher or on the website would be awesome.
thanks
(>.<)
(")_(")
It should, but in the EULA notch says he doesn't care about mods.
"I have read and agree with the terms and conditions"
Ignore them all you want, you're still bound by them because you agreed to them. If you want to ignore them, don't click "agree" on them. You can't sing one tune and dance to another.
That's not a mod. That's an external program, or "tool". A mod is collection of modified Minecraft java class files. Whether that's legal or not has nothing to do with mods being legal.
It's illegal because Minecraft is Notch's work, and Notch said it is illegal. By purchasing and playing the game, you agreed to his rules. Those other server mods either are illegal, or they have permission from Notch to do what they do.
The .jar file is considered propriety content, and is under copyright laws such as the DMCA. Redistributing the .jar file is the equivalent of making an .iso copy of any other game out there, like Call of Duty, and making it available to everyone for free. You can be charged under the same law as those guilty of distributing cracked copies of a game.
It's not illegal to retain a local copy of past updates because they are considered purchased by yourself, and as such you become a retainer of the original work and can make as many copies of the game as you like as long as you do not give it to others. Selling your copy of the game on the other hand is also legal, because it is under the same laws that video rental places are safe under when they temporarily sell a copy of copyrighted material that they purchased themselves.
Are the texture files (the .png files) are redistributable, modified or unmodified? Because otherwise texturepacks distributed on the forums would be illegal and would need to be removed, correct? Therefore, one can assume that the custom textures are either not counted under this (as they have official support). But I am not certain about the default textures.
- Mistakes were made.
AdvHud Mod @Jetstream395
Do you mean the same way you have the right to speak for everyone who uses the game? Like this:
Interesting, it seems that now YOU are making a sweeping generalization for the entire Minecraft population.
Here is my 2cents,
I AM American, and I am completely ashamed of the asshats whom were bought and paid to create the DMCA. I purchased this game for $20 when it was at version 1.3 and it is ridiculous that I am unable to redownload it if needed. (Sorry Grugsy, but just because you are perfect doesn't mean everyone else has the same exact configuration as you).
The DMCA only hurts those who follow it. It was never about protecting the little guy, the small time developer. It was made to maximize the profit of the major corporation who have intellectual property by the balls. It was made so you have to buy the same movie/song over and over again for each device you own - Computer, Xbox, Iphone, Ipod, Etc. Give my corrupt government enough time, and I am sure they will find a way to legislate a way to criminalize THINKING about a song in your head without paying money.
All those open source projects out there leave past versions of software to download. I have never contributed a cent to Ubuntu, Debian, Gnome, Bukkit, etc - and all these groups provide previous versions in their repository of choice (not to mention it is TOTALLY legal to forever redistrubute things like Ubuntu).
Meanwhile as I paying customer I have no legal way to get something I purchased, Minecraft 1.3 .
I am American, and I say F*ck my country and its greedy mindset that will eventually lead to our collapse.
An EULA has never held up in a court of law, and in fact notch has changed his EULA at least once without requesting that the people who had agreed to the first EULA to agree to the second EULA. You know why an EULA has never held up in court? You can't verify who actually agreed to it or if they could have even been deemed mentally competent at the time they agreed to it. Furthermore it doesn't leave any sort of a reliable papertrail so it can be easily falsified.
Mojang isn't banning anyone, the people running these forums are...
Again, there is a legal way of downgrading. It hardly matters whether it's official or not...
viewtopic.php?f=1022&t=113094
A mod needs to edit this in in the OP :/
Here's an example of a (former) PNG processing vulnerability that could read to code execution. http://www.microsoft.com/technet/securi ... 5-009.mspx
Basically there were some bugs in the code for processing PNG images in Windows Media Player and MSN Messenger that caused memory corruption under certain circumstances, which meant that an image could be created to trigger the bug such that parts of the image file are copied into memory and then executed as code. It's long since fixed but it shows that data files can unintentionally be executed as code if the program opening has security vulnerabilities (such as array overruns).
That's not very encouraging. :sad.gif:
THIS \/
The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) is a United States copyright law that implements two 1996 treaties of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or services intended to circumvent measures (commonly known as digital rights management or DRM) that control access to copyrighted works.
Is nulled by this \/
http://www.minecraft.net/prepurchase.jsp
Here's what you get:
You get early access to the game to a discounted price!
You help fund the development of Minecraft
Custom skins in multiplayer
Once you've bought the game, it's yours. (1)No DRM.
DMCA SPECIFICALLY refers to only to DRM which as you can see until the above (1) is removed from his website and DRM is actually implimented (which it currently doesn't have) DMCA holds absolutely no sway in terms of legality.
The only thing that makes it so called illegal is this \/
The one major rule
Do not distribute anything I've made. This includes the client and the server software for the game. This also includes modified versions of anything I've made.
In order to maintain control of the project, I need all game downloads to come from a single central source. I hope you understand.
And besides before "installing" this software there is NO "prompt" asking if we have read and accept the EULA or Terms of Service for this software. So the ONLY thing this software has going for it is what is on the site "The One Major Rule" and his copyright (which i have yet to actually find the copyright other than him typing copyright mojang ab do not distrubute at the bottom of the page. So if someone wanted to challenge him in court they could win due to Not having the giant EULA he didn't want to make and Not having DRM implemented.
In my own opinion though, I do support not being able to roll back the versions due to this is a testing environment and he wants results from the latest version not from previous. Makes perfect sense and I fully support it.
But sadly (and gladly?) he hasn't implemented the actual legal measures to protect his game from redistributions as much as you may think. The DMCA and the EUCD (which is slightly more restrictive but only includes the European Union members) both only refer to by passing restrictions placed by the copyright holder, which the only restriction he has is the one major rule which may or may not hold up in court. Also the DMCA and EUCD only legally bind the USA and EU everyone else will have to check their own country's Laws on copyright infringement. For instance me... I can go an hour away from where I live and Legally do all the copyright infringement i want because that place has no such laws against it. As long as once I come back to my own country I do not continue the copyright infringement there isn't anything anyone can do about it.
The European Union consists of 27 member states which can be found listed here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union
Also people telling the mods on Minecraftforums.net to "fix" the game... you're stupid. They have no control over the game. Go email the actual developers. :sleep.gif: