One more thing. It was suggested by some that Mojand designed endermen specifically against "mob grinders". I would like to know that is true at all, which I doubt. There are ways against endermen, and had I started building my stuff today, I would have designed it to avoid endermen, so that point is moot.
If that is true, and if they pursue this line of thinking with removing drops altogether from kills not initiated directly by the player, well I have bad news for them.
If they implemented this, all you'd have to do is dig a place for you to stand at the bottom of your trap, be one block lower than the mobs, with an opening, get your sword/fist out and get your mouse stuck with a brick on the click button. That way, you can go AFK and your death factory will still work: all the mobs will be killed directly by "you", the player, and mobs will drop.
So if that's what they have in mind, this is no solution. You can't stop progress.
If they try implementing something like "if you don't move within 5 minutes, you will die and respawn", then I'll come up with some contraption in the real world to move my mouse every minute, or slowly rock back and forth. People will find a way. I just don't think antagonising everyone is a great idea. Inventing stuff is what many of us love about Minecraft, which we can't do in other games.
Install it, and no endermen will place/pick up any block.
Thank you kindly. I indeed didn't know there was a mod for this, and I have never used a mod before, prefering to play the game as it is. One reason I made this thread wasn't just to get the game to be how I prefered, but also to give feedback. I do believe the official game can't remain this way. Thanks again for the mod.
I spent hours these past few weeks building a giant death factory for mobs - the hostile sort - and I finally managed to make a very efficient one. Now, I updated, and within two minutes of activating my death factory, everything went wrong. There was water where there shouldn't be. I suspected enderman. And I was correct. Upon inspection, tons of blocks had been removed; my channels were completely sabotaged and my whole construction rendered useless. It was a real pain to fix it up because it's all in the dark and made of channels you can't jump out of and etc.
Now it's fixed, but if I turn off the peaceful mode, they will once again destroy my creation.
I think enderman's ability to move around blocks should be cancelled. If they move blocks around in the wild, it makes no difference and you'd hardly notice; and when they remove blocks from your constructions, it's not particularly fun, and rebuilding is a major pain in the potato, especially if you have a device made to spawn mobs and kill them afterwards.
I read somewhere that endermen would only move natural blocks and not those placed by the player, but all the blocks I used in my trap were placed by me. Is this a bug that will be solved in the near future or will enderman always be able to displace player-placed blocks?
If enderman continues to have this ability, and if there's nothing you can do to stop him, then I must forget about my massive death factory, and much more, since I used this to get gunpowder to get TNT to flatten the land around my home and many other things.
If you too wish enderman couldn't remove your blocks, say so in this thread.
PS: If you disagree and like that enderman can remove your blocks, I'm sure you have valid reasons in other contexts, but if you have created a complex construction which needs to remain just as it is to function, you will understand how handicapping enderman can be: it's either peaceful mode forever, or forget about your inventions altogether (since my factory can't work on peaceful).
EDITS: I have been told a million times to lower the ceiling down to 2 blocks; new question: are we certain that endermen won't spawn in 2 blocks high rooms? and if they still spawn in there, can they remove blocks while suffocating?
EDITS: We are no longer discussing mobtraps, solutions were offered, discussed, and that debate is no longer up; the current discussion centers around the general landscape and how endermen will inevitably make everything look nasty; also, we discuss whether it's any fun to spend that sort of effort protecting everything by slathering our lands with torches or flooding everything.
I agree. What is there should not be changable by mobs
Having never installed a mod before, I'm quite concerned I'd ruin the files somehow and lose everything... Another reason why I'd rather the official game does something about it.
Reading the thread about the mod, it seems to not work for many people. I won't attempt anything. I've had too many problems with corrupt saves in the past to mess with this stuff I know little about.
The irony of course is that the entire blog post elaborates on Notch's idea of punishing a player for actively making a mistake, by then making a monster that destroys their world 24/7 regardless of the player. No where did it state Endermen were designed around wreaking havoc on a player's world. It's a stupid AI quirk to make them unique.
Has anyone pointed this out to mojang or notch yet? Especially the blog post and how it relates to endermen. Or better yet directed them to this or the general endermen discussion thread. Try that getsatisfaction website maybe...
Quote from Migrosbudget »
A lot of you people dont seem to know that there's a mod made especially for this problem.
Install it, and no endermen will place/pick up any block.
I prefer to have main game fixed as I have never installed a mod myself and this is the first time I have felt a new feature detracts from the game experience (also the void fog is sort of annoying and pointless too). But thanks, if it doesn't change soon I probably will try to install it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When no one was looking, the Endermen took forty blocks.
They took 40 blocks. That’s as many as four tens. And that’s horrible.
Notch should make all mob-exclusive items be acquired through non-hostile means already. Chickens drop feathers (zombies used to have them since the beginning), cobwebs drop string (spiders still drop string as well). Bones and gunpowder is still monster-only items which should be fixed.
Maybe mine-able skeleton blocks of dead mobs for bones and a sulfur block to collect gunpowder?
However, concerning the whole trap thing? I knew it was going to be nerfed some way since getting items from mobs that way was too easy.
Notch should make all mob-exclusive items be acquired through non-hostile means already. Chickens drop feathers (zombies used to have them since the beginning), cobwebs drop string (spiders still drop string as well). Bones and gunpowder is still monster-only items which should be fixed.
Maybe mine-able skeleton blocks of dead mobs for bones and a sulfur block to collect gunpowder?
However, concerning the whole trap thing? I knew it was going to be nerfed some way since getting items from mobs that way was too easy.
Sir, it's not that easy. It seems the people who are against "mob grinders" - and who have never made any - assume you just pile blocks for 5 minutes and voilà, infinite items. Not so. It took me 7 versions to get something working well. My first versions were huge, but waiting 2 hours would get you 20 gunpowder bits, which gives you 4 blocks of TNT, and that's not much. So I had to make a much, much larger one. This is a lot of work!
If needed one block of TNT for one precise thing, I'd just hunt creepers for a while. It's not actually easier to do than build a "mob grinder", by far. You just point and bash the mobs with your sword or shoot at them with your bow. If you need 10 gunpowders, that's what anyone would do. But if you need thousands of the stuff, like I do, then hunting for it is out of the question. I need industrial quantities of TNT to blow up entire mountain ranges. Even with a "mob grinder" it will take very long, and nothing is "too easy" about it.
On average, nobody needs thousands of feathers and strings, but if you want to use TNT a lot, the only viable way to get it is to make a death factory.
And no, hacking or using a different mode to instantly get thousands of TNT block is not the same. I'd feel like I was cheating and it's suck off the fun for me; I want to have made the stuff myself, through ingenious ways, not code commands or hacks. Surely everyone can understand that, it's why I build stuff on survival and not creative.
As for you automating steve to punch pigs... Meh...
Every mob will be a mob-tower killer? How?
As to my argument on how people will always find ways, I'm not sure "meh" conveys much information to me. I guess you don't want to discuss this so I'll leave you alone.
I have never farmed animals - though I have tried. When talking of farming mobs, I was mostly thinking of farming creepers because I need insane amounts of TNT. Thinking of cows and leather and food and such, I guess it's a bit different, since hundreds of leather items can give you way more armor than you'll ever need (for what it's worth), it's not like the TNT I use and am always in shortage of.
If the programmers are going to try to limitate us in what we can do, it can go nasty very fast. Moving from a free game where you do what you want and set your own goals, to a game where you do what they want and what they let you do, that can be a game-killer.
Simply put, if somehow they manage to make traps obsolete, all it'll do is cancel my TNT projects. There will be no alternative, I'll just have to give up my projects. I wouldn't spend 500 hours removing mountains with pick and shovel. I love Minecraft, but I have done my share of endless grinding of dirt and rock, and it's no fun. I just want the possibility to shape my world like I want from using ingenuity and technique. That should be considered fair game. And no, I don't want creative modes or anything, I want to feel like I'm still a virtual human being working for his stuff. That's more fun to me.
Ahem...
All mobtowers now use natural death - drowning/falling/suffocation/
And guess what will happen when mobs stop dropping anything on natural death?
All the mobtowers will produce 0 items in 1 hour.
And about automating Steve to kill mobs? You mean mods that put Steve on autopilot?
Or rigging your mouse/keyboard to some contraption?
But I explained exactly how it'd work... All I'd have to do is dig a hole to place myself at the bottom of my trap, one block lower than where the mobs fall, so they wouldn't attack me but I still could, and by placing a brick on my mouse's clicking button, my character would endlessly punch whoever was in front of him. The mobs would then die and die so near me that their drops would instantly get in my pocket. It could be risky with spiders, perhaps. I'd get a diamond sword or make sure spiders don't get to the bottom.
What I'm saying is that I doubt they could ever find a way to counter everything. Read my previous post fully for more.
Sir, it's not that easy. It seems the people who are against "mob grinders" - and who have never made any - assume you just pile blocks for 5 minutes and voilà, infinite items. Not so. It took me 7 versions to get something working well. My first versions were huge, but waiting 2 hours would get you 20 gunpowder bits, which gives you 4 blocks of TNT, and that's not much. So I had to make a much, much larger one. This is a lot of work!
If needed one block of TNT for one precise thing, I'd just hunt creepers for a while. It's not actually easier to do than build a "mob grinder", by far. You just point and bash the mobs with your sword or shoot at them with your bow. If you need 10 gunpowders, that's what anyone would do. But if you need thousands of the stuff, like I do, then hunting for it is out of the question. I need industrial quantities of TNT to blow up entire mountain ranges. Even with a "mob grinder" it will take very long, and nothing is "too easy" about it.
On average, nobody needs thousands of feathers and strings, but if you want to use TNT a lot, the only viable way to get it is to make a death factory.
And no, hacking or using a different mode to instantly get thousands of TNT block is not the same. I'd feel like I was cheating and it's suck off the fun for me; I want to have made the stuff myself, through ingenious ways, not code commands or hacks. Surely everyone can understand that, it's why I build stuff on survival and not creative.
Oh believe me, I made a mob grinder that reached from top of the map to the very bottom. The killing part was entirely based on gravity and not through exploiting lava with a glitch. I raked in a lot of mob items through a legitimate method. However, it felt way too easy to get such items and I knew it would be nerfed some way or another. Cue the endermen, I rest my case.
I still say getting items naturally isn't bad either, and I'm not talking about killing mobs. If you want gunpowder, Notch should make sulfur blocks or something in semi-common amounts like coal for example.
For info: my current death factory uses a design I invented myself (I never saw anyone else use it, at any rate): after using laval, water, lava again, and endless water patterns which all failed, I eventually decided on a water trench and pistons to push both items and mobs into the trench, which is essentially a miniwaterfall, from which mobs cannot easily jump out, and when they do, they just fall even harder and get stuck at the bottom. This is what I enjoyed most: devising techniques to kill mobs efficiently. It was a lot of work and 90% of what I tried failed, so when it eventually worked, I could smile. To get a death factory that makes really tons of items, you need to put so much time in it that I believe you deserve the fruit of your hard work. Like I said before, the time I spent building my traps, if I had spent it hunting, would have given me more items. But it would have been less interesting, less demanding, and in the long run not as efficient.
My pistons are connected to a pulse so they push every second or so. Mobs falling from really high die instantly if they fall on the ground part or pistons, but then said pistons push the drops into the water trench.
If natural deaths don't drop anything anymore, I'd have to redesign my trap entirely. It can still be done, but if that happens, a line will have been crossed, the line where the game is changed againstplayers based on what they managed to achieve.
Instead of doing that, I suggest Mojang makes up new stuff that requires death factories. That way we move forward, not backwards.
You know what is weird...
I truly know how you feel....
And Now Back on topic FFS
I just had an idea... What if you build a animal field? With fence all around... Cool isn't it?
And now think what happens when you go down mining... Come up and see your pretty fence broken up and your animals roaming around outside the fence...
I have no idea what your point is anymore. The only animal farm field I built didn't use fences, I just surrounded it with water channels to take the animals where I wanted them to die.
GO GET A PICKAXE AND USE SOME GODDAMN COBBLESTONE!
They can only move blocks like dirt/sand/wood. If you build it out of dirt, you should expect it to be destroyed.... besides, what happens if you go in for maintenance, and you suddenly see a creeper come up behind you and blow? Should they not be allowed to explode? THAT is a lot of maintenance. Especially if you're right next to your creation.
I was thinking the same thing, why would you build a mob tower out of dirt?!!!?!?!
Oh believe me, I made a mob grinder that reached from top of the map to the very bottom. The killing part was entirely based on gravity and not through exploiting lava with a glitch. I raked in a lot of mob items through a legitimate method. However, it felt way too easy to get such items and I knew it would be nerfed some way or another. Cue the endermen, I rest my case.
I still say getting items naturally isn't bad either, and I'm not talking about killing mobs. If you want gunpowder, Notch should make sulfur blocks or something in semi-common amounts like coal for example.
I found lava was teh suck when it comes to mob grinding because it tends to burn the items - or maybe I'm doing it wrong. I hadn't even thought of this as a "bug exploit", the part where ladders are lava and water repellent. I'm not sure it's a bug, however, because it seems intended by the game designers, since they never "fixed" it. My current trap uses pistons and drowning and gravity kills, all are natural and none issued from a clear bug or a less clear one.
Was it too easy to dig such a giant monster death factory as yours? I wouldn't think it was easy. It must have taken a hell of a long time.
I like your idea of a gunpowder block, but even if that was implemented, I couldn't get the insane amounts I need for my projects. Taking your idea in reverse, if there was a mob producing other items that you can only dig for, like iron or diamonds, then it's a situation to think of. Infinite diamonds, or ore, or etc. That'd be something else, because diamonds last way more time than gunpowder, but it's a point worth thinking of.
I believe some items should be available from mobs if you need them in large supplies, and others should remain rare, like diamonds. Does gunpowder belong to that rare category? I'd say no. I hear nobody complaining about farming wheat. I loved farming since day one; first I farmed trees, then more trees, then wheat, then animals, and now monsters. The act of farming appealed to me. I mechanised some wheat fields. I loved the engineering process of it, and I got hundreds of wheatstacks from doing that, but I never used them because I didn't care for bread. The only goal I could find to feel like my work was somewhat useful was the idea that I'd plant giant fields of wheats, for art's sake.
Then mobs spawned inside my fenced fields and I got tired of replanting and just harvested everything and set fire to the fence.
THIS IS A THREAD ABOUT ENDERMAN-GRIEFS AND NOT ABOUT MOBTOWERS!!!!!
Yeah, I know, I wrote it myself and the opening post and read every post afterwards. I don't get your point about the animal farm thing and the missing fence.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/631622-181-endermen-dont-pick-up-blocks-mod/
Install it, and no endermen will place/pick up any block.
If that is true, and if they pursue this line of thinking with removing drops altogether from kills not initiated directly by the player, well I have bad news for them.
If they implemented this, all you'd have to do is dig a place for you to stand at the bottom of your trap, be one block lower than the mobs, with an opening, get your sword/fist out and get your mouse stuck with a brick on the click button. That way, you can go AFK and your death factory will still work: all the mobs will be killed directly by "you", the player, and mobs will drop.
So if that's what they have in mind, this is no solution. You can't stop progress.
If they try implementing something like "if you don't move within 5 minutes, you will die and respawn", then I'll come up with some contraption in the real world to move my mouse every minute, or slowly rock back and forth. People will find a way. I just don't think antagonising everyone is a great idea. Inventing stuff is what many of us love about Minecraft, which we can't do in other games.
Thank you kindly. I indeed didn't know there was a mod for this, and I have never used a mod before, prefering to play the game as it is. One reason I made this thread wasn't just to get the game to be how I prefered, but also to give feedback. I do believe the official game can't remain this way. Thanks again for the mod.
I agree. What is there should not be changable by mobs
Elaborate about the "mob-tower killer", if you would.
As to killing mobs yourself, I addressed how even that could be automated in my post.
Has anyone pointed this out to mojang or notch yet? Especially the blog post and how it relates to endermen. Or better yet directed them to this or the general endermen discussion thread. Try that getsatisfaction website maybe...
I prefer to have main game fixed as I have never installed a mod myself and this is the first time I have felt a new feature detracts from the game experience (also the void fog is sort of annoying and pointless too). But thanks, if it doesn't change soon I probably will try to install it.
They took 40 blocks. That’s as many as four tens. And that’s horrible.
Maybe mine-able skeleton blocks of dead mobs for bones and a sulfur block to collect gunpowder?
However, concerning the whole trap thing? I knew it was going to be nerfed some way since getting items from mobs that way was too easy.
Sir, it's not that easy. It seems the people who are against "mob grinders" - and who have never made any - assume you just pile blocks for 5 minutes and voilà, infinite items. Not so. It took me 7 versions to get something working well. My first versions were huge, but waiting 2 hours would get you 20 gunpowder bits, which gives you 4 blocks of TNT, and that's not much. So I had to make a much, much larger one. This is a lot of work!
If needed one block of TNT for one precise thing, I'd just hunt creepers for a while. It's not actually easier to do than build a "mob grinder", by far. You just point and bash the mobs with your sword or shoot at them with your bow. If you need 10 gunpowders, that's what anyone would do. But if you need thousands of the stuff, like I do, then hunting for it is out of the question. I need industrial quantities of TNT to blow up entire mountain ranges. Even with a "mob grinder" it will take very long, and nothing is "too easy" about it.
On average, nobody needs thousands of feathers and strings, but if you want to use TNT a lot, the only viable way to get it is to make a death factory.
And no, hacking or using a different mode to instantly get thousands of TNT block is not the same. I'd feel like I was cheating and it's suck off the fun for me; I want to have made the stuff myself, through ingenious ways, not code commands or hacks. Surely everyone can understand that, it's why I build stuff on survival and not creative.
Every mob will be a mob-tower killer? How?
As to my argument on how people will always find ways, I'm not sure "meh" conveys much information to me. I guess you don't want to discuss this so I'll leave you alone.
If the programmers are going to try to limitate us in what we can do, it can go nasty very fast. Moving from a free game where you do what you want and set your own goals, to a game where you do what they want and what they let you do, that can be a game-killer.
Simply put, if somehow they manage to make traps obsolete, all it'll do is cancel my TNT projects. There will be no alternative, I'll just have to give up my projects. I wouldn't spend 500 hours removing mountains with pick and shovel. I love Minecraft, but I have done my share of endless grinding of dirt and rock, and it's no fun. I just want the possibility to shape my world like I want from using ingenuity and technique. That should be considered fair game. And no, I don't want creative modes or anything, I want to feel like I'm still a virtual human being working for his stuff. That's more fun to me.
But I explained exactly how it'd work... All I'd have to do is dig a hole to place myself at the bottom of my trap, one block lower than where the mobs fall, so they wouldn't attack me but I still could, and by placing a brick on my mouse's clicking button, my character would endlessly punch whoever was in front of him. The mobs would then die and die so near me that their drops would instantly get in my pocket. It could be risky with spiders, perhaps. I'd get a diamond sword or make sure spiders don't get to the bottom.
What I'm saying is that I doubt they could ever find a way to counter everything. Read my previous post fully for more.
Oh believe me, I made a mob grinder that reached from top of the map to the very bottom. The killing part was entirely based on gravity and not through exploiting lava with a glitch. I raked in a lot of mob items through a legitimate method. However, it felt way too easy to get such items and I knew it would be nerfed some way or another. Cue the endermen, I rest my case.
I still say getting items naturally isn't bad either, and I'm not talking about killing mobs. If you want gunpowder, Notch should make sulfur blocks or something in semi-common amounts like coal for example.
My pistons are connected to a pulse so they push every second or so. Mobs falling from really high die instantly if they fall on the ground part or pistons, but then said pistons push the drops into the water trench.
If natural deaths don't drop anything anymore, I'd have to redesign my trap entirely. It can still be done, but if that happens, a line will have been crossed, the line where the game is changed againstplayers based on what they managed to achieve.
Instead of doing that, I suggest Mojang makes up new stuff that requires death factories. That way we move forward, not backwards.
I have no idea what your point is anymore. The only animal farm field I built didn't use fences, I just surrounded it with water channels to take the animals where I wanted them to die.
I was thinking the same thing, why would you build a mob tower out of dirt?!!!?!?!
I found lava was teh suck when it comes to mob grinding because it tends to burn the items - or maybe I'm doing it wrong. I hadn't even thought of this as a "bug exploit", the part where ladders are lava and water repellent. I'm not sure it's a bug, however, because it seems intended by the game designers, since they never "fixed" it. My current trap uses pistons and drowning and gravity kills, all are natural and none issued from a clear bug or a less clear one.
Was it too easy to dig such a giant monster death factory as yours? I wouldn't think it was easy. It must have taken a hell of a long time.
I like your idea of a gunpowder block, but even if that was implemented, I couldn't get the insane amounts I need for my projects. Taking your idea in reverse, if there was a mob producing other items that you can only dig for, like iron or diamonds, then it's a situation to think of. Infinite diamonds, or ore, or etc. That'd be something else, because diamonds last way more time than gunpowder, but it's a point worth thinking of.
I believe some items should be available from mobs if you need them in large supplies, and others should remain rare, like diamonds. Does gunpowder belong to that rare category? I'd say no. I hear nobody complaining about farming wheat. I loved farming since day one; first I farmed trees, then more trees, then wheat, then animals, and now monsters. The act of farming appealed to me. I mechanised some wheat fields. I loved the engineering process of it, and I got hundreds of wheatstacks from doing that, but I never used them because I didn't care for bread. The only goal I could find to feel like my work was somewhat useful was the idea that I'd plant giant fields of wheats, for art's sake.
Then mobs spawned inside my fenced fields and I got tired of replanting and just harvested everything and set fire to the fence.
Yeah, I know, I wrote it myself and the opening post and read every post afterwards. I don't get your point about the animal farm thing and the missing fence.