The following are a number of conversations had long before the release of 1.8 where I tried my best to warn Mystify, and everyone else, of the inevitable irritating quality of dougs (aka endermen), and Mystify denying it up and down. Reader beware:
Quote from Mystify »
Quote from Ovus »
Like I said before, time spent cleaning up mob destruction is time not spent on an adventure, nor being creative.
And you are assuming the endermen will require clean-up. My entire point is that this will likely not be the case. Yet you seem dead-set on insisting that this is how it will be, and have not even admitted the possibilty that notch has designed them to not destroy your base.
Quote from Mystify »
Quote from Ovus »
With the creeper, however, we at least know when they've done damage. For the Dougs to wander around in the distance moving blocks, that's going to get real ****ing old for people who do stuff with redstone, especially since that kind of stuff can accumulate when unchecked, like mushrooms. We've all encountered vast gardens of mushrooms that developed over a long period of time.
And Notch has stated very, very clearly that he knows that is a bad design. Which is why I am confident they don't work like that. You don't say "I think A is a bad design, and I take actions to combat it. Oh, and by the way, here is a new mob that does A".
Quote from Mystify »
Quote from Ovus »
Because they've been photographed with blocks in their hands and those same type of blocks individually placed around them. I believe Notch might have alluded to them doing something of this sort via Twitter, as well.
That means they move blocks. It does not mean they destroy everything. The former does not nessecitate the latter.
Quote from Mystify »
Quote from Ovus »
If they move blocks...
...then they destroy blocks...
Genius :tongue.gif:
That doesn't mean they move blocks you used, or near you, or do so in a net destructive manner, or in a way that has a major impact on your structure...
I have already stated how Notch's own design philosphy suggests they are not going to ruin your buildings.
If you go off the logic "If it can move blocks, it will destroy your creations" then every single person in multiplayer would be a griefer. Do greifers exist? Yes. Is everyone a griefer? No. It is perfectly possible to move blocks and not destroy buildings, or leave huge scars in the landscape. Why are you assuming that the endermen will do such things?
Quote from Mystify »
Quote from Ovus »
Are you shitting me? You're saying that players in multiplayer don't always grief, therefore the Dougs probably won't grief? That has to be the worst argument I've ever read on this forum.
It's a video game, they're not sentient creatures. They will be programmed to act a certain way and, surprise surprise, they will act in accordance with their programming. Notch is not implanting free-will into the Dougs. They will be programmed to move blocks, which means they will likely be moving player placed blocks, if not stone or cloth or obsidian, they will at least be moving player placed sand and dirt.
I'm not sure why you people fetishize randomized block manipulation and destruction by mobs. There are no benefits to it. Creeper explosions just mean you have to clean up a mess. Silverfish burrowing through blocks means you have to perform regular repair. The Dougs randomly picking up blocks and placing them in different places is the same exact thing. All of this can and will accumulates into a nuisance. When the novelty wears off you will be left with nothing but perpetual demand for maintenance. And maintenance is not gameplay, it's an unnecessary distraction from gameplay. Time spent cleaning up mob destruction is time not spent on an adventure, nor being creative.
My point was that block movement does not have to be negative. Yes, they will be programmed to act a certain way. You are the one assuming this this "certain way" is going to be problematic. I can think of numerous ways that their block manipulation is not going to be problematic, Notch's own words suggest that he knows random mobs destroying your buildings is not good, yet you still assume they are going to be a blight upon everything in the world, destroying both creative and adventuring aspects of the game.
We know they move blocks. That does not mean they are going to destroy everthing. Your are just being pessimistic.
I.
Was.
****ing.
Right!
And I'll be damned if I won't rub it in your face! :biggrin.gif:
Well yeah, a mod will come, but this behaviour is just silly, not challenging, and really has no purpose other than hurting your eyes and defacing the entire world around you (and fairly far from you, too). A lot of people defended them thinking they would intelligently pursue you (not the case) or make pathways for creepers and zombies to go into your building (also not the case). You can see footage that proves that they are even easier to deal with than zombies. And the flying trees situation needs to stop.
So yeah, this needs fixing, it's certainly not intended behaviour. If you think I am exaggerating, go explore a few caves, or pass time underground, and look at the disaster above. The more you wait the more wrecked it will be. The damage is cumulative and given the high amount of them that spawn, very fast.
Dear NoiGren... you have fallen pray to a pro troll.. just let him be. he has already caused enough derailment here.
Well yeah, a mod will come, but this behaviour is just silly, not challenging, and really has no purpose other than hurting your eyes and defacing the entire world around you (and fairly far from you, too). A lot of people defended them thinking they would intelligently pursue you (not the case) or make pathways for creepers and zombies to go into your building (also not the case). You can see footage that proves that they are even easier to deal with than zombies. And the flying trees situation needs to stop.
So yeah, this needs fixing, it's certainly not intended behaviour. If you think I am exaggerating, go explore a few caves, or pass time underground, and look at the disaster above. The more you wait the more wrecked it will be. The damage is cumulative and given the high amount of them that spawn, very fast.
Well I thought I was out...the mod is yes we agree, so your issue about stray blocks should be resolved soon. I typically enjoy rather childishly stacking an enormous amount of tnt in a small area and setting it off and blowing a gigantic crater in the ground. /off to play minecraft
I've always felt that a secure area was one of the most important aspects
in stuff such as this, particularly so there's no risk of a Creeper spawning
and as such detonating, so I'm not very sympathetic to those who took no
such precautions and now complain when mobs spawn.
Yes, mob>construct destruction was made much more straightforward, but it's
not the mob's fault that it was able to spawn there. >.>
I spent hours these past few weeks building a giant death factory for mobs - the hostile sort - and I finally managed to make a very efficient one. Now, I updated, and within two minutes of activating my death factory, everything went wrong. There was water where there shouldn't be. I suspected enderman. And I was correct. Upon inspection, tons of blocks had been removed; my channels were completely sabotaged and my whole construction rendered useless. It was a real pain to fix it up because it's all in the dark and made of channels you can't jump out of and etc.
Now it's fixed, but if I turn off the peaceful mode, they will once again destroy my creation.
I think enderman's ability to move around blocks should be cancelled. If they move blocks around in the wild, it makes no difference and you'd hardly notice; and when they remove blocks from your constructions, it's not particularly fun, and rebuilding is a major pain in the potato, especially if you have a device made to spawn mobs and kill them afterwards.
I read somewhere that endermen would only move natural blocks and not those placed by the player, but all the blocks I used in my trap were placed by me. Is this a bug that will be solved in the near future or will enderman always be able to displace player-placed blocks?
If enderman continues to have this ability, and if there's nothing you can do to stop him, then I must forget about my massive death factory, and much more, since I used this to get gunpowder to get TNT to flatten the land around my home and many other things.
If you too wish enderman couldn't remove your blocks, say so in this thread.
PS: If you disagree and like that enderman can remove your blocks, I'm sure you have valid reasons in other contexts, but if you have created a complex construction which needs to remain just as it is to function, you will understand how handicapping enderman can be: it's either peaceful mode forever, or forget about your inventions altogether (since my factory can't work on peaceful).
This is just an idea, but Endermen are three blocks tall right? So why not make the ceiling two blocks high? The Endermen won't be able to spawn, but you will still have all the other baddies spawning. That will be a lot of work to change your flooring though. Let me know if it is two high already, because that would be interesting to know about Endermen
I'll re-state it again. If Endermen were never given the ability to move blocks when they were first created, you wouldn't have given a damn. You don't actually have an argument against it, other than "I dont want minecraft to change." Go play the original classic minecraft if you really never wanted minecraft to change. You aren't the only person who plays minecraft, and Notch isn't infallible. I bet if Notch miraculously read this thread and applied the suggestions to Endermen, you would play Minecraft for 10 minutes and not even notice.
I'll give you your argument that if it hadn't of been done, we wouldn't complain, if it hadn't been done. we wouldn't have known it was possible, and again, wouldn't complain but guess what? it was done, we know its possible, and we LIKE it, not that we don't want anything to change, its just that we LIKE what was done, it makes the game challenging, enderman rips apart your saftynets, as I stated in a previous argument, if you build anything with 4 walls in a roof, there's no challenge to the game anymore. now, here is a theory, have enderman scale with difficulty, easy mode, removes nonplayer blocks, normal mode and hard? enderman removes any block, easy to do, and removes all problems, would that give you your fix and still allow us the difficulty of enderman?
they spawn up inside...he states that (and i know that lol)
Alright, I wasnt aware of that. Notch will find some compromise sometime in the future. It is difficult to make everyone happy but I can see the possibilty of a configuration tab somewhere in the gui where you can control what all mobs can and cannot do or even control how a lot more Minecraft things function.
Isn't that kinda the point of endermen? just rebuild it with two high hallways and what nots....
SMP is continually ravaged. Adventure maps are rendered unplayable. General play has its enjoyment leeched away. Nobody likes to have to play maid for something that isn't a result of their own actions. That's why creepers are generally given a break, while endermen are getting hated on. All they do is add a sense of futility to the game. Nothing you make is going to remain intact, and there's not a god damned thing you can do about it unless you ascribe to redundant measures just to placate one annoying mob in the game. The endermen are a game-killer.
I'd prefer them to be benign unless aggravated. There are a bunch of different things you could have them do. Hell, you could have them plant saplings.
Want malign? Have them snuff out unprotected torches or something. There are alternatives to just having them grief.
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it was nice to partake in this thread, but i must go.. for those who are just now leaving...the best part of this thread is from page 19-half of page 24. best of luck to your causes but just to save the argument.. a 4 phase slider would be the best fix 1: they dont pick things up, 2: they only pick up dirt/gravel/sand/stone up 3: they pick anything up and 4:they pick up player centered things only. that would allow for each player to have there fav setting and keep things fun for all of us ...
I'll give you your argument that if it hadn't of been done, we wouldn't complain, if it hadn't been done. we wouldn't have known it was possible, and again, wouldn't complain but guess what? it was done, we know its possible, and we LIKE it, not that we don't want anything to change, its just that we LIKE what was done, it makes the game challenging, enderman rips apart your saftynets, as I stated in a previous argument, if you build anything with 4 walls in a roof, there's no challenge to the game anymore. now, here is a theory, have enderman scale with difficulty, easy mode, removes nonplayer blocks, normal mode and hard? enderman removes any block, easy to do, and removes all problems, would that give you your fix and still allow us the difficulty of enderman?
It doesn't make the game challenging at all. Not in the least. If you wanted a challenge implemented in the form of creations being vulnerable to mobs, then I'm sure youd like ghasts spawning in the normal realm. That would be difficult. Endermen slowly moving one block at a time? Not really, no. A mob perhaps that is both aggressive, and can shift through solid blocks, removing the safety of a wall. All of these provide actual challenges. Moving 1 block at random, not even at your house; ANYWHERE-- is a chore. Enjoy your chores.
The 4 walls+roof argument is ridiculous. No one in here arguing against Endermen moving blocks actually sit in 4 walls and a roof, staring out a window shouting random profanities at monsters all day. We all like to go underground, fight, find dungeons, then come back to the surface with our loot and build epic wonders. We just don't like coming back the surface to find dozens of holes in said wonder/creation because of Endermen, and cleaning it every, single, time, we come back up.
Moving their block ability to different difficulties would sort of fix the problem. Obviously we could mod. I don't like using mods and would prefer 100% vanilla. I also like playing on hard. Why exactly must they move blocks, again? No one here is against a challenge, or a mob that removes the safety homes have created in Minecraft. We also just don't like the idea of our creations being destroyed in the process. Why can't that be a suitable compromise?
because if we don't like one mob's ability, not even the mob itself, we have to restrain ourselves of ALL mobs? right
I didn't say that, based on his post he's just doing it to be creative, it was mainly at the last part, full scale realistic city, isn't going to have: giant spiders, skeletons that shoot arrows at you, zombies that want a hug, or you know, creepers
SMP is continually ravaged. Adventure maps are rendered unplayable. General play has its enjoyment leeched away. Nobody likes to have to play maid for something that isn't a result of their own actions. That's why creepers are generally given a break, while endermen are getting hated on. All they do is add a sense of futility to the game. Nothing you make is going to remain intact, and there's not a god damned thing you can do about it unless you ascribe to redundant measures just to placate one annoying mob in the game. The endermen are a game-killer.
I'd prefer them to be benign unless aggravated. There are a bunch of different things you could have them do. Hell, you could have them plant saplings.
Want malign? Have them snuff out unprotected torches or something. There are alternatives to just having them grief.
God I never even considered adventure maps... Yeah this mob is causing problems, give it a few days a mod will come out that changes their behavior...
Make it 2 blocks high for spawning grounds, that way if Endermen still spawn, they'll probably die fast due to suffocation.
Freaking derp.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Notch on his twitter: "bugs that feel wrong get fixed"
Do not get attached to your saves, seriously, stuff like this has happened before, if there's something you love and really want to build...Wait for release.
God I never even considered adventure maps... Yeah this mob is causing problems, give it a few days a mod will come out that changes their behavior...
Yeah, of course. But it's such an important thing that needs to be nerfed now that even installing a mod is too much. Everyone needs to tweet @notch to remove enderman's ability to place blocks. Now.
Yeah, of course. But it's such an important thing that needs to be nerfed now that even installing a mod is too much. Everyone needs to tweet @notch to remove enderman's ability to place blocks. Now.
no that won't help since then a flood of people who like it will barge in and ask for the ability back, which is why in my opinion they will never change it, and we'll need mods to fix it for us.
because if we don't like one mob's ability, not even the mob itself, we have to restrain ourselves of ALL mobs? right
I.
Was.
****ing.
Right!
And I'll be damned if I won't rub it in your face! :biggrin.gif:
Dear NoiGren... you have fallen pray to a pro troll.. just let him be. he has already caused enough derailment here.
Well I thought I was out...the mod is yes we agree, so your issue about stray blocks should be resolved soon. I typically enjoy rather childishly stacking an enormous amount of tnt in a small area and setting it off and blowing a gigantic crater in the ground. /off to play minecraft
in stuff such as this, particularly so there's no risk of a Creeper spawning
and as such detonating, so I'm not very sympathetic to those who took no
such precautions and now complain when mobs spawn.
Yes, mob>construct destruction was made much more straightforward, but it's
not the mob's fault that it was able to spawn there. >.>
This is just an idea, but Endermen are three blocks tall right? So why not make the ceiling two blocks high? The Endermen won't be able to spawn, but you will still have all the other baddies spawning. That will be a lot of work to change your flooring though. Let me know if it is two high already, because that would be interesting to know about Endermen
I'll give you your argument that if it hadn't of been done, we wouldn't complain, if it hadn't been done. we wouldn't have known it was possible, and again, wouldn't complain but guess what? it was done, we know its possible, and we LIKE it, not that we don't want anything to change, its just that we LIKE what was done, it makes the game challenging, enderman rips apart your saftynets, as I stated in a previous argument, if you build anything with 4 walls in a roof, there's no challenge to the game anymore. now, here is a theory, have enderman scale with difficulty, easy mode, removes nonplayer blocks, normal mode and hard? enderman removes any block, easy to do, and removes all problems, would that give you your fix and still allow us the difficulty of enderman?
Alright, I wasnt aware of that. Notch will find some compromise sometime in the future. It is difficult to make everyone happy but I can see the possibilty of a configuration tab somewhere in the gui where you can control what all mobs can and cannot do or even control how a lot more Minecraft things function.
SMP is continually ravaged. Adventure maps are rendered unplayable. General play has its enjoyment leeched away. Nobody likes to have to play maid for something that isn't a result of their own actions. That's why creepers are generally given a break, while endermen are getting hated on. All they do is add a sense of futility to the game. Nothing you make is going to remain intact, and there's not a god damned thing you can do about it unless you ascribe to redundant measures just to placate one annoying mob in the game. The endermen are a game-killer.
I'd prefer them to be benign unless aggravated. There are a bunch of different things you could have them do. Hell, you could have them plant saplings.
Want malign? Have them snuff out unprotected torches or something. There are alternatives to just having them grief.
It doesn't make the game challenging at all. Not in the least. If you wanted a challenge implemented in the form of creations being vulnerable to mobs, then I'm sure youd like ghasts spawning in the normal realm. That would be difficult. Endermen slowly moving one block at a time? Not really, no. A mob perhaps that is both aggressive, and can shift through solid blocks, removing the safety of a wall. All of these provide actual challenges. Moving 1 block at random, not even at your house; ANYWHERE-- is a chore. Enjoy your chores.
The 4 walls+roof argument is ridiculous. No one in here arguing against Endermen moving blocks actually sit in 4 walls and a roof, staring out a window shouting random profanities at monsters all day. We all like to go underground, fight, find dungeons, then come back to the surface with our loot and build epic wonders. We just don't like coming back the surface to find dozens of holes in said wonder/creation because of Endermen, and cleaning it every, single, time, we come back up.
Moving their block ability to different difficulties would sort of fix the problem. Obviously we could mod. I don't like using mods and would prefer 100% vanilla. I also like playing on hard. Why exactly must they move blocks, again? No one here is against a challenge, or a mob that removes the safety homes have created in Minecraft. We also just don't like the idea of our creations being destroyed in the process. Why can't that be a suitable compromise?
I didn't say that, based on his post he's just doing it to be creative, it was mainly at the last part, full scale realistic city, isn't going to have: giant spiders, skeletons that shoot arrows at you, zombies that want a hug, or you know, creepers
God I never even considered adventure maps... Yeah this mob is causing problems, give it a few days a mod will come out that changes their behavior...
Make it 2 blocks high for spawning grounds, that way if Endermen still spawn, they'll probably die fast due to suffocation.
Freaking derp.
Do not get attached to your saves, seriously, stuff like this has happened before, if there's something you love and really want to build...Wait for release.
Yeah, of course. But it's such an important thing that needs to be nerfed now that even installing a mod is too much. Everyone needs to tweet @notch to remove enderman's ability to place blocks. Now.
I've come to the conclusion that nobody on this forum ever reads anything.
Case in point, I start a thread called "Option to Disable NPC Griefing" in Suggestions, and get posts like this:
He didn't even get past the first word of the title of the thread.
*smashes head against the wall*
Brb 6 months placing a 2 block high dirt ceiling over the entire world so they don't destroy the landscape.
it's not so much tearing apart, as having you need to replace a couple blocks everyday, which is a chore, not a challenge.
no that won't help since then a flood of people who like it will barge in and ask for the ability back, which is why in my opinion they will never change it, and we'll need mods to fix it for us.