Protecting one's house is no big deal if you ask me. Everything on this subject has been about mob grinders, but what about the other things they have made impractical to do in the game?
1. Player-created dungeons and/or adventure-style levels? You can't have a dark area for your victim explorer to be jumped by mobs, because the endermen will tear it up when nobody is around.
2. Megastructures whose aesthetics are spoiled by lighting and can't be protected by water. Sure I could play on peaceful, but what if I like the challenge of doing things legit?
3. Anything desert themed that doesn't involve water and is too realistic to have tons of lava or netherrack
4. Any cool things in general that are outside your "perimeter"
And that is just for things that are player created, if notch made these guys not steal natural blocks. If they remain unconstrained there are other things they can do.
5. NPC villages are not safe because they have no walls
6. Any kind of spawned ruins or abandoned mines or future adventurey things under the player's feet are/will be disassembled before he finds them.
7. Forests and the effects they have in them, duh
8. How far can endermen reach, and can they pull blocks behind shallow water or falls despite being hurt by it? Things may not be as safe as you think.
Also I could come up with reasons why they don't do the things that the apologists like them for:
1. They are very slow, random, and don't have a "siege" AI so it is very unlikely they would actually break into your base or let other mobs in before you found them. They just make a hideous smattering of 1x1 holes where a block came out, spoiling the aesthetics of your stuff
2. They aren't dangerous in their present form, and if they were tougher they would be overpowered.
3. They probably won't deliberately break out of a cave emerge from under your floor one day, for the same reason as number 1.
4. They aren't scary or really that rare. I have already become desensitized to them. Unlike creepers, which still successfully sneak up on me from time to time and make me really paranoid every morning when I get out of bed and I know there are still a few left over from the night.
Kind sir, not all of my comment was directed at you and what you said, I just generalised over things mentioned by others. Apologies for making it sound like it was all aimed at you.
oh..well them my apologies to you as well. i just hope this Endermen thing is not removed..but just a slider is added.. best for all of us
I kinda like the enderman taking blocks. I does not bother me. I also crafted a monster death trap but have not seen what they do inside. right now it is still working. So at worst case I would have to reopen and fix the thing the enderman break. Just another aspect of the game.
However I do see the OP point and my only suggestion is a property or a mod to toggle that ability on or off
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and before anyone talks **** about me for saying id rather have a slider... please.. just please read the thread ...you will see that around pages 20-24 i listen to reason and enjoy having endermen do that but understand that ruins your guy's hard work. so a slider would work best for those of us who like it and those of us who dont
please just dont be a one minded fool who dasnt listen to reason.... and reading this thread i has seen that most the time its just the guys who are against Endermen.. i only think thats because they are but hurt about there mob killers not working.. though most the guys defending Endermen (like i do) are just plain dumbasses who are probbly 12 and dont see that they also ruin the landscape... so please comment on this...do your worst if you feel you must add your one minded side to this about just keeping them or removing them... all those who agree with a slider (preferably 4 phases) are smart people who understand reason .... those who dont are the one's that actually made me make this account here to counter there stupidedy with reason... Mob farms take alot of planing and work to make..you cant just lower the roofs.. though to tell you the truth i got bored of having one i thought it was extremly pointless (MY OPINION im not saying that is the law) for i like to explore and never actually stayed in one place to long untell i make my castle... (btw if this comment actually pissed you off and you see bad in it your probly one of the one minded idiots who see no reason..for i just agreed with both sides..and just showed how both are wrong its called REASON learn it)
It shouldn't be necessary to mod them into a state of not being terribly annoying. They aren't a challenge, they're a nuisance.
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More Ocean Life: Kelp, Coral, Crabs and Jellyfish; Coconut Palm trees for beaches and islands. Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
I wish people would at least read the first few pages of the thread before posting...
We didn't generate 33 pages of discussion on changing the ceiling of a mob trap to 2 blocks high.....
I feel that random uncontrollable picking up and moving of blocks by enderman should be removed. They should only move blocks when you aggro them/**** them off as random block moving has no purpose but to mess up the look of everything.
Their behavior should be changed so that when pissed off, they will move blocks that are blocking their path to you away at a somewhat significant speed.
This way their core functionality of moving blocks is maintained, but that functionality will actually serve a purpose and make the mob somewhat challenging.
Hide behind a wall or in your house? Not anymore because the enderman will rip a hole through it if you aggro them.
They should also get a health buff, they are REALLY easy to kill right now.
This way the builders cannot complain because if an enderman destroys their creations it is entirely their fault and the survivalists/fighters can be happy that the enderman are more powerful and will chase them down relentlessly, breaking through their walls. (adding a CHALLANGE)
just my $0.02
I also vote for this times a million. Or how about (as I believe mentioned by others) they only pick up blocks to throw them at you when they become aggressive? Both of these would keep their unique ability and prevent them from hen pecking the world and player structures to death.
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Just enjoying midnight in the garden of shoes and evil
The problem is that Endermen only cause aesthetic damage and don't try to pursue or open routes towards you. They act absolutely at random.
If you want challenge, Silverfish and Cave Spiders are waiting for you. Endermen aren't what you want.
SILVERFISH?!?!?!?!?!? DONT SPEAK THERE NAME HERE!!!!!!
Imagine if notch had put in dragons as he said he would. Dragons would be like ogres from the mo creatures mod, they would kill you, blow up your whole house and you`d need diamond everything and a bucket of arrows to kill one.
People are too used to nonsense like squid and friendly pigmen in the nether. The players great strength is that we can move and place blocks. It's about time we had a monster that messed about with that, otherwise things are too easy and our constructions remain the same.
What we dont want is a situation where skeletons or spiders remain the most troublesome monster. We have long needed something to up the stakes and it could have been a lot more hardcore than endermen.
More monsters is acceptable. More monsters with a higher difficulty is also acceptable.
I'm not arguing against enderman or saying that they are OP or something, I am saying that I am displeased with the current implementation of the enderman's block moving mechanic and believe that tweaking it could make the enderman a legitimate threat. Namely, that the current implementation serves almost no purpose.
Currently, enderman will pick up blocks randomly, and place them randomly. There is no point to it, no higher goal, just random movements.They do not try to break into houses or dig through walls. If they happen to remove a block of your house, that is random, they didn't do it to get to you or let other mobs in, so when they move blocks all they are doing is adding static to the landscape, kind of like the static on TV's. The longer enderman are allowed to spawn in an area, the more 'static' the land will acquire, until it just looks awful. (this is most apparent in SMP)
By changing their block moving behavior to only trigger when angry at the player, the crappy static landscapes won't happen. If the enderman only move blocks to get to the player
( making 3 tall holes in walls /making block staircases/placing blocks behind the player to try to trap them, etc) then that both increases the threat of enderman (because they are smarter) and adds in the 'wrong player action -> negative consequence' behavior that we are familiar with in our player -> creeper interactions.
(Fail to notice creeper -> creeper blows up you and your front door)
The point is, enderman should not randomly move stuff around, when they move stuff around it should be for some purpose, namely to get at or trap the player. Any damage caused by enderman to buildings would then become the result of player error and be comparable to the interactions between the player and the creeper, which I view as being balanced.
Well, I've read this whole thread, and I've made a couple of posts. Here's a bit of a repost.
Main Point: I love the Endermen's ability to move blocks, but like most, I find the extent of it irritating.
1. They move blocks randomly.
a. The extent of which they do, which I believe is a random block in a 200 block area, is ridiculous.
2. No block is safe.
a. This includes bedrock and even your chests full of diamonds, just so they can idly walk off and despawn with them.
b. Even lighting up won't be effective as they walk.
3.They end up greatly nerfing the creative side of the game, even in Creative mode.
Well, my main three points. I really like the idea of them moving blocks only when aggroed, picking them up and throwing them randomly. You have knockback, so the block would land where you were. And, make it so they only pick up dirt, sand, and gravel.
Either that, or make them move blocks out of the way when aggroed. Although, I guess that concept could apply to both.
I feel like we'd have to bombard some twitters to get attention to this from Mojang, but that'd be another level of douche baggery. Has there ever been a poll on this subject?
Also, I think I'm going to MCEdit a 200*200 testworld, with 4 different regions of different colored wool, 10 blocks deep, sit inside a glass box and let minecraft run for a week just for dramatic effect. Everyone should just start posting screen shots of the damage.
Imagine if notch had put in dragons as he said he would. Dragons would be like ogres from the mo creatures mod, they would kill you, blow up your whole house and you`d need diamond everything and a bucket of arrows to kill one.
People are too used to nonsense like squid and friendly pigmen in the nether. The players great strength is that we can move and place blocks. It's about time we had a monster that messed about with that, otherwise things are too easy and our constructions remain the same.
What we dont want is a situation where skeletons or spiders remain the most troublesome monster. We have long needed something to up the stakes and it could have been a lot more hardcore than endermen.
You give Endermen way too much credit. If you think a few random sand blocks sitting on dirt hills is threatening...I'd gladly trade their stupid, useless block moving ability to give them 3x health, immunity to sunlight and water, 100+ increased range of their cursor sense, the ability to shift through walls, and 2x the damage, to make them a monster that is actually threatening.
It probably doesn't affect you when you don't have tons of creations in a large radius that you can't possibly run around repairing 24/7; At least not when you have every 5*5 space conceivable with a torch and moat around it. That still doesn't even protect the environment which they do the most damage on.
It was pretty obvious that the Enderman's block moving ability was a disaster waiting to happen.
What I don't understand about Minecraft is the lack of options in the game. All it takes is the adding of a few options to the game and everyone is happy.
I was riding a long train we spent ages making....until it stopped in the middle of nowhere. A friendly ****ing enderman had ripped up the tracks. So do I bother repairing it? Surely it'll happen again...
buncha stuff about making endermen yet another damage mob...and calling the block moving useless
yeah, another damaging mob with some flashy abilities to entertain you with before he runs into the business end of your sword...we have enough of those...
It was pretty obvious that the Enderman's block moving ability was a disaster waiting to happen.
Notch has proven time and again that he is of an old school gamer mentality...not a fan of exploits/glitches/easybuttons. Something that ruins your cheapy mob-grider seems EXACTLY like something he would get a chuckle out of. Same with hiding at night..sure, you can make a house and base out of it, but be prepaired to defend it...if you are unwilling to, there IS creative mode *nudge nudge*...also, there is still peaceful if you cant handle them but want to play 'survival'. These things are gonna make for some awesome reading in the forums XD
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MINECRAFT IS IN BETA...WE ARE BETA-TESTING. it's platforming...not parkour <<
I don't like how they die in the morning, I would prefer it if they teleported back to wherever they came from every night before the sunrise.
As for movement of blocks.
I find it adorable . . .
And they don't seem to have moved any of my things around much due to proper usage of lighting.
I think they messed around near my garden, but I haven't seen them move any fences . . .
I don't know; I just want to finally hear what they actually sound like.
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"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."
::Quote from The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes
It honestly is very annoying, but just make the spawn rooms 2 high, and if you want to deny spider spawning just use water columns instead of half-slabs.
a mob that nulifies grinders?!? That is pro game design! +1 for Notch
yeah, another damaging mob with some flashy abilities to entertain you with before he runs into the business end of your sword...we have enough of those...
Notch has proven time and again that he is of an old school gamer mentality...not a fan of exploits/glitches/easybuttons. Something that ruins your cheapy mob-grider seems EXACTLY like something he would get a chuckle out of. Same with hiding at night..sure, you can make a house and base out of it, but be prepaired to defend it...if you are unwilling to, there IS creative mode *nudge nudge*...also, there is still peaceful if you cant handle them but want to play 'survival'. These things are gonna make for some awesome reading in the forums XD
Endermen moving blocks has nothing to do with Notch trying to break mob grinders. Whether intentional or not for Endermen to move blocks to "remove" the security of a minecraft house, if the case, then Notch failed horribly. You greatly misinterpret Mojang's motivations for Endermen and this patch, twisting them to fit your own ****ed up view that everyone has to play the same way you do.
Go sink 100+ hours digging and building a mob grinder. You will do way more work building it than killing/gathering any drops from monsters that you may ever need. Don't just go on youtube, look up a pansy 25*25 mob trap that yields 300 items per hour either. Think a design over for an hour, and build a REAL factory that actually gives you items faster than you could find yourself.
If you don't like them, don't use them.
It honestly is very annoying, but just make the spawn rooms 2 high, and if you want to deny spider spawning just use water columns instead of half-slabs.
Endermen breaking mob spawners is just one of many problems their block moving creates. It's been discussed thoroughly how to Ender-proof traps for 1.8.
I don't like how they die in the morning, I would prefer it if they teleported back to wherever they came from every night before the sunrise.
As for movement of blocks.
I find it adorable . . .
And they don't seem to have moved any of my things around much due to proper usage of lighting.
I think they messed around near my garden, but I haven't seen them move any fences . . .
I don't know; I just want to finally hear what they actually sound like.
I'd generally enjoy and find their block moving cute too, but when faced that it has a consequence that will only forever irritate me for the rest of my playing of Minecraft, then I can do without it.
Notch has proven time and again that he is of an old school gamer mentality...not a fan of exploits/glitches/easybuttons. Something that ruins your cheapy mob-grider seems EXACTLY like something he would get a chuckle out of. Same with hiding at night..sure, you can make a house and base out of it, but be prepaired to defend it...if you are unwilling to, there IS creative mode *nudge nudge*...also, there is still peaceful if you cant handle them but want to play 'survival'. These things are gonna make for some awesome reading in the forums XD
Peaceful only play makes the game inferior to programs like Blender and Second Life, both free and graphically superior. You just eliminated Minecraft's niche market.
Also, assuming what I hear is correct that Endermen cannot pick up half blocks, then mob grinders will barely change, at worst getting a few blocks larger on all sides. The mob fails even it's "intended" task, as you claim.
1. Player-created dungeons and/or adventure-style levels? You can't have a dark area for your
victimexplorer to be jumped by mobs, because the endermen will tear it up when nobody is around.2. Megastructures whose aesthetics are spoiled by lighting and can't be protected by water. Sure I could play on peaceful, but what if I like the challenge of doing things legit?
3. Anything desert themed that doesn't involve water and is too realistic to have tons of lava or netherrack
4. Any cool things in general that are outside your "perimeter"
And that is just for things that are player created, if notch made these guys not steal natural blocks. If they remain unconstrained there are other things they can do.
5. NPC villages are not safe because they have no walls
6. Any kind of spawned ruins or abandoned mines or future adventurey things under the player's feet are/will be disassembled before he finds them.
7. Forests and the effects they have in them, duh
8. How far can endermen reach, and can they pull blocks behind shallow water or falls despite being hurt by it? Things may not be as safe as you think.
Also I could come up with reasons why they don't do the things that the apologists like them for:
1. They are very slow, random, and don't have a "siege" AI so it is very unlikely they would actually break into your base or let other mobs in before you found them. They just make a hideous smattering of 1x1 holes where a block came out, spoiling the aesthetics of your stuff
2. They aren't dangerous in their present form, and if they were tougher they would be overpowered.
3. They probably won't deliberately break out of a cave emerge from under your floor one day, for the same reason as number 1.
4. They aren't scary or really that rare. I have already become desensitized to them. Unlike creepers, which still successfully sneak up on me from time to time and make me really paranoid every morning when I get out of bed and I know there are still a few left over from the night.
oh..well them my apologies to you as well. i just hope this Endermen thing is not removed..but just a slider is added.. best for all of us
However I do see the OP point and my only suggestion is a property or a mod to toggle that ability on or off
please just dont be a one minded fool who dasnt listen to reason.... and reading this thread i has seen that most the time its just the guys who are against Endermen.. i only think thats because they are but hurt about there mob killers not working.. though most the guys defending Endermen (like i do) are just plain dumbasses who are probbly 12 and dont see that they also ruin the landscape... so please comment on this...do your worst if you feel you must add your one minded side to this about just keeping them or removing them... all those who agree with a slider (preferably 4 phases) are smart people who understand reason .... those who dont are the one's that actually made me make this account here to counter there stupidedy with reason... Mob farms take alot of planing and work to make..you cant just lower the roofs.. though to tell you the truth i got bored of having one i thought it was extremly pointless (MY OPINION im not saying that is the law) for i like to explore and never actually stayed in one place to long untell i make my castle... (btw if this comment actually pissed you off and you see bad in it your probly one of the one minded idiots who see no reason..for i just agreed with both sides..and just showed how both are wrong its called REASON learn it)
It shouldn't be necessary to mod them into a state of not being terribly annoying. They aren't a challenge, they're a nuisance.
Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
I also vote for this times a million. Or how about (as I believe mentioned by others) they only pick up blocks to throw them at you when they become aggressive? Both of these would keep their unique ability and prevent them from hen pecking the world and player structures to death.
SILVERFISH?!?!?!?!?!? DONT SPEAK THERE NAME HERE!!!!!!
More monsters is acceptable. More monsters with a higher difficulty is also acceptable.
I'm not arguing against enderman or saying that they are OP or something, I am saying that I am displeased with the current implementation of the enderman's block moving mechanic and believe that tweaking it could make the enderman a legitimate threat. Namely, that the current implementation serves almost no purpose.
Currently, enderman will pick up blocks randomly, and place them randomly. There is no point to it, no higher goal, just random movements.They do not try to break into houses or dig through walls. If they happen to remove a block of your house, that is random, they didn't do it to get to you or let other mobs in, so when they move blocks all they are doing is adding static to the landscape, kind of like the static on TV's. The longer enderman are allowed to spawn in an area, the more 'static' the land will acquire, until it just looks awful. (this is most apparent in SMP)
By changing their block moving behavior to only trigger when angry at the player, the crappy static landscapes won't happen. If the enderman only move blocks to get to the player
( making 3 tall holes in walls /making block staircases/placing blocks behind the player to try to trap them, etc) then that both increases the threat of enderman (because they are smarter) and adds in the 'wrong player action -> negative consequence' behavior that we are familiar with in our player -> creeper interactions.
(Fail to notice creeper -> creeper blows up you and your front door)
The point is, enderman should not randomly move stuff around, when they move stuff around it should be for some purpose, namely to get at or trap the player. Any damage caused by enderman to buildings would then become the result of player error and be comparable to the interactions between the player and the creeper, which I view as being balanced.
(didn't really mean to write that much!)
Main Point: I love the Endermen's ability to move blocks, but like most, I find the extent of it irritating.
1. They move blocks randomly.
a. The extent of which they do, which I believe is a random block in a 200 block area, is ridiculous.
2. No block is safe.
a. This includes bedrock and even your chests full of diamonds, just so they can idly walk off and despawn with them.
b. Even lighting up won't be effective as they walk.
3.They end up greatly nerfing the creative side of the game, even in Creative mode.
Well, my main three points. I really like the idea of them moving blocks only when aggroed, picking them up and throwing them randomly. You have knockback, so the block would land where you were. And, make it so they only pick up dirt, sand, and gravel.
Either that, or make them move blocks out of the way when aggroed. Although, I guess that concept could apply to both.
Also, I think I'm going to MCEdit a 200*200 testworld, with 4 different regions of different colored wool, 10 blocks deep, sit inside a glass box and let minecraft run for a week just for dramatic effect. Everyone should just start posting screen shots of the damage.
You give Endermen way too much credit. If you think a few random sand blocks sitting on dirt hills is threatening...I'd gladly trade their stupid, useless block moving ability to give them 3x health, immunity to sunlight and water, 100+ increased range of their cursor sense, the ability to shift through walls, and 2x the damage, to make them a monster that is actually threatening.
It probably doesn't affect you when you don't have tons of creations in a large radius that you can't possibly run around repairing 24/7; At least not when you have every 5*5 space conceivable with a torch and moat around it. That still doesn't even protect the environment which they do the most damage on.
There are now.
What I don't understand about Minecraft is the lack of options in the game. All it takes is the adding of a few options to the game and everyone is happy.
yeah, another damaging mob with some flashy abilities to entertain you with before he runs into the business end of your sword...we have enough of those...
Notch has proven time and again that he is of an old school gamer mentality...not a fan of exploits/glitches/easybuttons. Something that ruins your cheapy mob-grider seems EXACTLY like something he would get a chuckle out of. Same with hiding at night..sure, you can make a house and base out of it, but be prepaired to defend it...if you are unwilling to, there IS creative mode *nudge nudge*...also, there is still peaceful if you cant handle them but want to play 'survival'. These things are gonna make for some awesome reading in the forums XD
it's platforming...not parkour <<
As for movement of blocks.
I find it adorable . . .
And they don't seem to have moved any of my things around much due to proper usage of lighting.
I think they messed around near my garden, but I haven't seen them move any fences . . .
I don't know; I just want to finally hear what they actually sound like.
::Quote from The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes
Endermen moving blocks has nothing to do with Notch trying to break mob grinders. Whether intentional or not for Endermen to move blocks to "remove" the security of a minecraft house, if the case, then Notch failed horribly. You greatly misinterpret Mojang's motivations for Endermen and this patch, twisting them to fit your own ****ed up view that everyone has to play the same way you do.
Go sink 100+ hours digging and building a mob grinder. You will do way more work building it than killing/gathering any drops from monsters that you may ever need. Don't just go on youtube, look up a pansy 25*25 mob trap that yields 300 items per hour either. Think a design over for an hour, and build a REAL factory that actually gives you items faster than you could find yourself.
If you don't like them, don't use them.
Endermen breaking mob spawners is just one of many problems their block moving creates. It's been discussed thoroughly how to Ender-proof traps for 1.8.
I'd generally enjoy and find their block moving cute too, but when faced that it has a consequence that will only forever irritate me for the rest of my playing of Minecraft, then I can do without it.
Peaceful only play makes the game inferior to programs like Blender and Second Life, both free and graphically superior. You just eliminated Minecraft's niche market.
Also, assuming what I hear is correct that Endermen cannot pick up half blocks, then mob grinders will barely change, at worst getting a few blocks larger on all sides. The mob fails even it's "intended" task, as you claim.