I know it is asking a lot, but how about, instead of spending a seemingly monumental amount of energy hating everything we see about the next update, we put that energy toward something productive which may take our minds off of the negative thoughts running through our heads and allow us all time to chill and wait for something to actually be released before going off about it? I know it might have a detrimental effect on your post counts but once something does get released, you may then complain to your hearts desire. To do otherwise is to tantamount to dressing oneself as a fool when something which you have complained bitterly about on these forums is, dare I say it, actually ENJOYABLE and not at all like how you complained it was going to be.
I know I am probably wasting my time posting this because, let's face it, 140 pages will swallow this post quite easily. Aside from that, I'm reasonably certain that any complainer who does read it will completely disregard this post, or call me a Notch fan boi, or try to rationally explain their irrational dislike for whatever unreleased feature is being added to the game. Heck, they may even do all of the above! Anyway, just thought we needed (yet another) voice of reason to speak up in some misguided effort to prove that the Minecraft community isn't completely ungrateful.
a ) You sounded really fair and rational until the part where you accuse the complainers of being irrational.
b ) I'm reasonably confident that leveling is not the solution to making Minecraft a more fun, complete game. I have outlined why I can reasonably make this assumption even before the feature is released in my various posts in this thread. Had you actually read them instead of merely skimming you would have realized I was at least trying to argue a specific point in a logical manner.
c ) I'm not sure why I would want to wait until after a feature is implemented and released to let the developers know why I don't think I'll like it. Even if leveling is left in, I and others who feel the same as me may be able to influence the implementation of leveling so that it's something I'll find palatable, or maybe we'll at least have the option to toggle it off.
d ) Ungrateful? We're not talking about Toady One here working for gratuities. If anyone owes gratitude in this equation it's Mojang for making millions off the Minecraft community by selling an unfinished game.
I always found it weird and arbitrary that you could only eat pork, and not chicken or beef. I doubt it took a lot of effort to add; make a graphic, create a new item, give it a food value, make a cooked and uncooked version, and assign it as a drop to the appropriate mob. I seriously think that the graphics is the most effort in that process. They are adding a lot more food options in general, why not let you eat thing that are very common foods?
And who said you won't be able to cook and eat eggs?
Now you're singing my song. Real glad to see these kinds of improvements and hope they add a lot more like them in 1.8.
Well I just think if we give each passive mob their own food then what little challenge left to the game will be basically gone.
That makes no sense. If you make a simple wheat farm, then you can replenish your food supply (crafting bread) on a regular basis without ever leaving your base.
Because I want boss fights. And I want to fight the monsters, but I do NOT want it to be like there is one boss a world, you beat that boss and your world is pointless. The way I play, I play to build, explore, and gather. I mean, I don't focus on one thing, so I mainly mine, and explore, but in the process, I build pretty cool stuff. So for me to do all that, in that world, (Been playing with the same world since I got the game) and then, just have the world "beaten" it makes it feel a bit pointless to do all that stuff. I mean, yeah I can just go back to building, but it would feel like there is even less of a reason to do all the stuff I do then there was before.
I want cool giant boss battles, (I enjoy fighting huge slimes and ghasts, but they arent that hard) so I want to keep fighting, and keep having these battles, and stay in my one world I have played so long to build.
Maybe there should be another button on the game menu called "Modes" or a sub button in the options where you can select a mode, or if you want to play like you would normally, just create a world and progress like you would normally.
P.S You mentioned you'd like bosses, maybe biome specific bosses eg. giant worms underneath desert, a devil in the Nether, ect.
How about a giant fish, it would swim the speed you walk under water and can kill you, and can sink your boat. I also suggest that they put passive spiders that are still passive at night on peacful. :3
speak for yourself. a lot of my effort in the game goes towards eliminating as much travel time as I can. Not because it is a net savings in time, but a decrease in dead time. When you are walking from one place to another, through a place you have been or explored, you are not really playing the game. You are moving from one part of the game to another. When you are building a quick travel system, you are playing the game. When you are harvesting resources for it, you are playing the game. When you use it, you are cutting out dead time.
So while it may not be a net time saver, it does remove tedium to build a fast travel system.
like how michael bay movies cut out all that dead time used for "character development" and use it to show us bright lights and pretty colours instead.
or like how fpses now cut out all that dead time spent searching for things and instead present us with a linear string of set pieces.
like how michael bay movies cut out all that dead time used for "character development" and use it to show us bright lights and pretty colours instead.
or like how fpses now cut out all that dead time spent searching for things and instead present us with a linear string of set pieces.
honk honk give me my instant gratification
water me folks i'm a ****ing flower
Cutting out travel time is not at all like cutting out character development. The equivalent of travel time in a movie would be showing the characters walking from place to place, with nothing else going on, without montaging it.
Searching ofr thingsin an FPS is not dead time. Walking back across the level you have just defeated with nothing going on just so you can get to the other side is dead time.
Seriously, give me a good reason the player should spend 15 minutes walking through already conjured areas that have nothing going on just to get to the game? There is a reason some form of quick travel is a common gameplay element. Checkpoints you can quick travel between, for instance. Those do a great job of getting you to where you want to be, instead of forcing you to spend a lot of time walking through old areas.
People don't play a game to wander around pointlessly. The larger the game world is, the more important this becomes.
Why do you think Notch added the Nether? It wasn't long after he got the infinite world that he realized you needed some way to traverse it easier. He mentioned telportation pads early on, showing that he realized the problem, and was trying to figure out how to solve it. His solution was the nether.
The entire point of a game is to be fun. That is it. How you accomplish this is unimportant as long as it is acheived. That is why uncharted 2 is such a good game. It doesn't really do anything extrordinary, but it does everything well, and it is just fun, plain and simple. If a part of a game is not fun, you should attempt to fix or remove it. Saying otherwise betrays a deep flaw in your understanding of game design. And travel time is not fun. If you have a method to make travel time fun, then it is not a problem. Jak II had an open world, often with missions on the far side of town. Was it a problem? No, you had a plethora of ways to travel there quickly, all of which were fun. You could hoverboard around, with the ability to do flips and tricks, which could in trun give you a speed boost. You could steal a hovercraft and jet across town, avoiding other cars and the crimson guard. You could get the crimson guard on your tail and engage in a police chase all the way to where you want to go. They didn't make you walk across town on foot.
This is not a case of cutting out important parts of the game. Character development is important in movies. It is not dead time to be cut out to get to explosions. I never said cut out the plot of a game, I said cut out the travel time. I also never said that modern FPSses were examples of brilliant design. I generally don't play them because most of them are not. But linear levels out of a string of set peices is not at all related to eliminating travel time. In fact, that can often contribute to it. In games with a less linear flow, it is common to unlock a shorter path back to the beginning, or at least earlir parts of a level, once you get further in. This makes it so you don't have to walk through a completed level pointlessly. In fact, this concern is most prominant in non-linear games. In linear games, you can just pile obstacles in front of the player to keep the pace moving. In non-linear games, they almost always take mearues to alleviate this problem. non-linear areas are closer together than a stretched out linear level, inherantly reducing travel time. Unlocked short cuts make for easier transversal. Your abilites often lend themselves to moving quickly.
I don't really understand this complaint about winning, and how it ruins the game and ends it.
No it doesn't. Winning and ending are synonymous only in video games.
Minecraft will be doing something amazing with the introduction of "winning," but still continuing the game. I remember in Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, you couldn't walk among everyone after you beat Ganon. I mean, does winning or coming to success in reality end? No. There's always another beginning after a big success
What I would love is if the NPCs acknowledged you beat the evil, and that way the game wouldn't feel like it were ending. It was only another beginning. Notch could add expansion packs to the game with moderately-sized adventures that continue main quests, like Elder Scrolls' Bloodmoon and Tribunal.
The game is not ending. Not at all. It's just another beginning.
oh about the chicken, we dont know alot about it yet, so maybe its an item thats kinda like a cake. meaning you can place it in world and eat from it x times. i think it would look pretty good as a decoration in a dinner-room or something like that
like how michael bay movies cut out all that dead time used for "character development" and use it to show us bright lights and pretty colours instead.
or like how fpses now cut out all that dead time spent searching for things and instead present us with a linear string of set pieces.
honk honk give me my instant gratification
water me folks i'm a ****ing flower
Yeah, because establishing a connection between the audience and the characters in a movie is just like running from one place to the next in a video game. Clearly of equal importance, and clearly implying the same thing by their absence. Yes, you sure have made an insightful comparison here. You sure demonstrated keen discernment.
Let me guess: You think the biggest problem with The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker was that there wasn't enough sailing around the ocean, and conducting a song every time you want to change direction. And you think the song you could learn to transport you from place to place was instant-gratification ADD-appeasing ********, man!
For others: The point of "water me I'm a ****ing flower" is that it implies helplessness and the desire to have one's needs handed to you for free.
Because that's what building a fast travel mechanism implies about you.
I always found it weird and arbitrary that you could only eat pork, and not chicken or beef.
So did I. One of the very first thing I wanted to do in Minecraft was get raw chicken. That was actually the reason I killed my first chicken in Minecraft. I was sad that it only dropped feathers.
Then again, zombies dropping feathers always made sense to me. I just figured they had intercepted some chickens thinking to eat their meat and received their feathers instead, just like I had. They just keep the feathers. If you think about it like that, zombies dropping feathers makes plenty of sense. So when mobs become more persistent, you might have to defend your chicken coop not against hungry wolves, but hungry chicken craving zombies. Because in Minecraft zombies prefer chickens to brains, but brains will do with chicken is unavailable like it is now.
Every time I get a feather from a zombie. I think about how disappointed it must have been to discover that the chickens do not drop meat when it tried to eat it.
You'll start to appreciate all the new kinds of food when mobs do not spawn like they do now. It'll be a time when killing a pig might mean two in game weeks before then next pig spawns in a 3 squared chunk area. My guess is, when mobs become more persistent, you won't want to be killing the passive mobs like people have been up until then. You'll want to keep them then, and kill them only when you run completely out of food or you've breed plenty of them it won't hurt you too badly if you lose one milk cow.
One other thing about the food issue. There are studies being conducted right now about the affect of eating in-game has on the person playing. So, far, they're discovering that if you're character is hungry in-game, you'll get physically hungry in RL. You'll even start salivating in preparation to eat. If you eat in-game, then your RL body will go through some of the same chemical reactions as it would when you eat normal food, because of the psychological reaction you have of eating the virtual food. In fact, in some cases the psychological reaction can be powerful enough that after eating virtual food you feel physically full and satisfied as if you'd actually eaten real food. If virtual food is having this kind of psychological reaction on people, then why would it be surprising that some of these people might want variety in the virtual food they eat? Just out of curiosity with the virtual food already present in Minecraft, how many of you can almost taste the real thing when your character is low on health?
Do you not get tired of eating bread, pork chops, and mushroom soup? Am I the only one to whom that sounds like the menu at some prison? Sure there is the occasionally cake, but maybe it was another imamate’s birthday or one of the guards. Do you not want to eat better than someone locked away in prison?
I hope a mod or the creator of this thread reads this because Notch is also going to add underground ravines to 1.8 JUts wanted to point that out
Yes, it's been mentioned. It has also been mentioned that if the ravine is close enough the surface we'll get canyons. I'm curious if the ravines will also appear in the Nether as well.
I hope that you have the option to play Sandbox or RPG... ... ...
That maybe one of the reasons that Notch is going to give us the Adventure Mode in an update some time after the Adventure Update. Remember, just because Notch is adding exp and levels doesn't mean that their will be any roles to play. Also exp and levels may not be implemented in Minecraft the same way as most people are accustomed to. It could be something that doesn't resemble RPG exp and levels in the slightest. It could be something new that no one has done before, and is unique to Minecraft. If you're worried about it, take comfort in addition of the Adventure Mode to be added at some later date after the Adventure Update. Notch has already stated he wanted to have a Creative Mode so people could create custom maps for other people to play in some kind of Adventure Mode. That would allow people that wanted to play a traditional RPG in Minecraft could do so without forcing everyone else to do the same.
Maybe there should be another button on the game menu called "Modes" or a sub button in the options where you can select a mode, or if you want to play like you would normally, just create a world and progress like you would normally.
P.S You mentioned you'd like bosses, maybe biome specific bosses eg. giant worms underneath desert, a devil in the Nether, ect.
From everything I read when Notch was talking about the different planned modes, it sounded to me like he planned to implement some way of switching between modes. I figured it could be like the difficulty slider. How else could you create a custom map in Creative Mode to be played in the planned Adventure Mode? Yes, I know that the Adventure Mode is different than the Adventure Update. Yes, I know that the Adventure Mode is not a part of the Adventure Update. It is a planned mode to be released at some point after the 1.8 Adventure Update. Modes on servers in the 1.8 Update are supposed to be able to go into Creative Mode on a server even if the rest of the server is on Survival. At some point the Mods might want to switch back to Survival where everyone else is at. It only makes sense to me, that you would be able some how to switch between any of the modes. Again this will probably be done similarly to the difficulty slider. That is not the only way Notch could do it, but I think it is the most likely.
I like the idea of building something and then being able to summon whatever the boss is for that biome, and being able to repeatedly summon that same boss in this way. You wouldn't have to build the alter every time, but maybe you'd have to sacrifice some rare item or material or something else.
I love the minecraft adventure update logo :biggrin.gif:
As so I. I think it might be one of the few things in this forum that the community can all agree upon.
Edit: AS for the whole sprint thing... I don't think any game developer would add anything for no reason. I expect Notch will give us more of a reason to use sprinting than just to get somewhere faster. I expect Spiders and some other hostile mobs to become faster than the player is currently, giving you more of a reason to have to sprint. Soon may be the day that spiders are twice as fast as players. They may also start spitting webbing at the player to slow down the player to give them an even further advantage.
a ) You sounded really fair and rational until the part where you accuse the complainers of being irrational.
b ) I'm reasonably confident that leveling is not the solution to making Minecraft a more fun, complete game. I have outlined why I can reasonably make this assumption even before the feature is released in my various posts in this thread. Had you actually read them instead of merely skimming you would have realized I was at least trying to argue a specific point in a logical manner.
c ) I'm not sure why I would want to wait until after a feature is implemented and released to let the developers know why I don't think I'll like it. Even if leveling is left in, I and others who feel the same as me may be able to influence the implementation of leveling so that it's something I'll find palatable, or maybe we'll at least have the option to toggle it off.
d ) Ungrateful? We're not talking about Toady One here working for gratuities. If anyone owes gratitude in this equation it's Mojang for making millions off the Minecraft community by selling an unfinished game.
Now you're singing my song. Real glad to see these kinds of improvements and hope they add a lot more like them in 1.8.
Cant wait until it comes out
That makes no sense. If you make a simple wheat farm, then you can replenish your food supply (crafting bread) on a regular basis without ever leaving your base.
Speedy thing goes in. Speedy thing comes out.=P
Maybe there should be another button on the game menu called "Modes" or a sub button in the options where you can select a mode, or if you want to play like you would normally, just create a world and progress like you would normally.
P.S You mentioned you'd like bosses, maybe biome specific bosses eg. giant worms underneath desert, a devil in the Nether, ect.
like how michael bay movies cut out all that dead time used for "character development" and use it to show us bright lights and pretty colours instead.
or like how fpses now cut out all that dead time spent searching for things and instead present us with a linear string of set pieces.
honk honk give me my instant gratification
water me folks i'm a ****ing flower
That makes no sense
Yeah, no sense whatsoever.
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Curse PremiumCutting out travel time is not at all like cutting out character development. The equivalent of travel time in a movie would be showing the characters walking from place to place, with nothing else going on, without montaging it.
Searching ofr thingsin an FPS is not dead time. Walking back across the level you have just defeated with nothing going on just so you can get to the other side is dead time.
Seriously, give me a good reason the player should spend 15 minutes walking through already conjured areas that have nothing going on just to get to the game? There is a reason some form of quick travel is a common gameplay element. Checkpoints you can quick travel between, for instance. Those do a great job of getting you to where you want to be, instead of forcing you to spend a lot of time walking through old areas.
People don't play a game to wander around pointlessly. The larger the game world is, the more important this becomes.
Why do you think Notch added the Nether? It wasn't long after he got the infinite world that he realized you needed some way to traverse it easier. He mentioned telportation pads early on, showing that he realized the problem, and was trying to figure out how to solve it. His solution was the nether.
The entire point of a game is to be fun. That is it. How you accomplish this is unimportant as long as it is acheived. That is why uncharted 2 is such a good game. It doesn't really do anything extrordinary, but it does everything well, and it is just fun, plain and simple. If a part of a game is not fun, you should attempt to fix or remove it. Saying otherwise betrays a deep flaw in your understanding of game design. And travel time is not fun. If you have a method to make travel time fun, then it is not a problem. Jak II had an open world, often with missions on the far side of town. Was it a problem? No, you had a plethora of ways to travel there quickly, all of which were fun. You could hoverboard around, with the ability to do flips and tricks, which could in trun give you a speed boost. You could steal a hovercraft and jet across town, avoiding other cars and the crimson guard. You could get the crimson guard on your tail and engage in a police chase all the way to where you want to go. They didn't make you walk across town on foot.
This is not a case of cutting out important parts of the game. Character development is important in movies. It is not dead time to be cut out to get to explosions. I never said cut out the plot of a game, I said cut out the travel time. I also never said that modern FPSses were examples of brilliant design. I generally don't play them because most of them are not. But linear levels out of a string of set peices is not at all related to eliminating travel time. In fact, that can often contribute to it. In games with a less linear flow, it is common to unlock a shorter path back to the beginning, or at least earlir parts of a level, once you get further in. This makes it so you don't have to walk through a completed level pointlessly. In fact, this concern is most prominant in non-linear games. In linear games, you can just pile obstacles in front of the player to keep the pace moving. In non-linear games, they almost always take mearues to alleviate this problem. non-linear areas are closer together than a stretched out linear level, inherantly reducing travel time. Unlocked short cuts make for easier transversal. Your abilites often lend themselves to moving quickly.
No it doesn't. Winning and ending are synonymous only in video games.
Minecraft will be doing something amazing with the introduction of "winning," but still continuing the game. I remember in Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, you couldn't walk among everyone after you beat Ganon. I mean, does winning or coming to success in reality end? No. There's always another beginning after a big success
What I would love is if the NPCs acknowledged you beat the evil, and that way the game wouldn't feel like it were ending. It was only another beginning. Notch could add expansion packs to the game with moderately-sized adventures that continue main quests, like Elder Scrolls' Bloodmoon and Tribunal.
The game is not ending. Not at all. It's just another beginning.
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Curse PremiumNor was it sold to you in act of charity. Point was that you paid money for a game still in beta.
Yeah, because establishing a connection between the audience and the characters in a movie is just like running from one place to the next in a video game. Clearly of equal importance, and clearly implying the same thing by their absence. Yes, you sure have made an insightful comparison here. You sure demonstrated keen discernment.
Let me guess: You think the biggest problem with The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker was that there wasn't enough sailing around the ocean, and conducting a song every time you want to change direction. And you think the song you could learn to transport you from place to place was instant-gratification ADD-appeasing ********, man!
For others: The point of "water me I'm a ****ing flower" is that it implies helplessness and the desire to have one's needs handed to you for free.
Because that's what building a fast travel mechanism implies about you.
Hey I didn't say it was intelligent.
So did I. One of the very first thing I wanted to do in Minecraft was get raw chicken. That was actually the reason I killed my first chicken in Minecraft. I was sad that it only dropped feathers.
Then again, zombies dropping feathers always made sense to me. I just figured they had intercepted some chickens thinking to eat their meat and received their feathers instead, just like I had. They just keep the feathers. If you think about it like that, zombies dropping feathers makes plenty of sense. So when mobs become more persistent, you might have to defend your chicken coop not against hungry wolves, but hungry chicken craving zombies. Because in Minecraft zombies prefer chickens to brains, but brains will do with chicken is unavailable like it is now.
Every time I get a feather from a zombie. I think about how disappointed it must have been to discover that the chickens do not drop meat when it tried to eat it.
You'll start to appreciate all the new kinds of food when mobs do not spawn like they do now. It'll be a time when killing a pig might mean two in game weeks before then next pig spawns in a 3 squared chunk area. My guess is, when mobs become more persistent, you won't want to be killing the passive mobs like people have been up until then. You'll want to keep them then, and kill them only when you run completely out of food or you've breed plenty of them it won't hurt you too badly if you lose one milk cow.
One other thing about the food issue. There are studies being conducted right now about the affect of eating in-game has on the person playing. So, far, they're discovering that if you're character is hungry in-game, you'll get physically hungry in RL. You'll even start salivating in preparation to eat. If you eat in-game, then your RL body will go through some of the same chemical reactions as it would when you eat normal food, because of the psychological reaction you have of eating the virtual food. In fact, in some cases the psychological reaction can be powerful enough that after eating virtual food you feel physically full and satisfied as if you'd actually eaten real food. If virtual food is having this kind of psychological reaction on people, then why would it be surprising that some of these people might want variety in the virtual food they eat? Just out of curiosity with the virtual food already present in Minecraft, how many of you can almost taste the real thing when your character is low on health?
Do you not get tired of eating bread, pork chops, and mushroom soup? Am I the only one to whom that sounds like the menu at some prison? Sure there is the occasionally cake, but maybe it was another imamate’s birthday or one of the guards. Do you not want to eat better than someone locked away in prison?
Yes, it's been mentioned. It has also been mentioned that if the ravine is close enough the surface we'll get canyons. I'm curious if the ravines will also appear in the Nether as well.
That maybe one of the reasons that Notch is going to give us the Adventure Mode in an update some time after the Adventure Update. Remember, just because Notch is adding exp and levels doesn't mean that their will be any roles to play. Also exp and levels may not be implemented in Minecraft the same way as most people are accustomed to. It could be something that doesn't resemble RPG exp and levels in the slightest. It could be something new that no one has done before, and is unique to Minecraft. If you're worried about it, take comfort in addition of the Adventure Mode to be added at some later date after the Adventure Update. Notch has already stated he wanted to have a Creative Mode so people could create custom maps for other people to play in some kind of Adventure Mode. That would allow people that wanted to play a traditional RPG in Minecraft could do so without forcing everyone else to do the same.
From everything I read when Notch was talking about the different planned modes, it sounded to me like he planned to implement some way of switching between modes. I figured it could be like the difficulty slider. How else could you create a custom map in Creative Mode to be played in the planned Adventure Mode? Yes, I know that the Adventure Mode is different than the Adventure Update. Yes, I know that the Adventure Mode is not a part of the Adventure Update. It is a planned mode to be released at some point after the 1.8 Adventure Update. Modes on servers in the 1.8 Update are supposed to be able to go into Creative Mode on a server even if the rest of the server is on Survival. At some point the Mods might want to switch back to Survival where everyone else is at. It only makes sense to me, that you would be able some how to switch between any of the modes. Again this will probably be done similarly to the difficulty slider. That is not the only way Notch could do it, but I think it is the most likely.
I like the idea of building something and then being able to summon whatever the boss is for that biome, and being able to repeatedly summon that same boss in this way. You wouldn't have to build the alter every time, but maybe you'd have to sacrifice some rare item or material or something else.
As so I. I think it might be one of the few things in this forum that the community can all agree upon.
Edit: AS for the whole sprint thing... I don't think any game developer would add anything for no reason. I expect Notch will give us more of a reason to use sprinting than just to get somewhere faster. I expect Spiders and some other hostile mobs to become faster than the player is currently, giving you more of a reason to have to sprint. Soon may be the day that spiders are twice as fast as players. They may also start spitting webbing at the player to slow down the player to give them an even further advantage.