I'm going to start with a little disclaimer here: This isn't directed towards everyone in this community. There are a vast multitude of intelligent, reasonable people in this community. In fact, most of the people I am responding to are sane, well-adjusted, and intelligent people. But I digress...
Upon every single update, there is always a plethora of threads in the discussion section complaining about how something does not fit in with the "feel" of Minecraft. These arguments are usually always poorly-worded and close minded. To some people, Minecraft might be a simple fantasy game. Some people see Minecraft as a mining, combat, survival game. Some people see it as a building game. Some people see Minecraft as a low-tech fantasy world, while others see it as a world teeming with potential for industry. Perspective on the feel of the game are wildy varied, but one thing is clear; arguing about the feel of Minecraft is just as silly as arguing about the feel of the real world. All evidence is circumstantial by nature. So please, stop. The creators will do what they please, and you always have the option to ignore it. Arguing something doesn't fit the feel of minecraft is as annoying and pointless as saying "There's a mod for that" in the suggestions forum.
This should be in the normal Discussion board and not here, but whatever.
People who have that opinion often have a point. Some ideas are just too different to work well in Minecraft. It really depends on how specific it is. Usually game mechanics get this argument more than other suggestions.
You have to understand that people want to play Minecraft roughly the way it currently plays. They don't feel comfortable if your idea changes a lot of how the game works/feels. Your idea may be how you want to play Minecraft, but it's not how they want to play Minecraft, and within reason you should respect that. That doesn't mean they always have a valid argument.
That doesn't mean that this shouldn't be included into minecraft, this only means a friendly "hey till it's official in minecraft maybe in some years, you can use this till then". :wink.gif:
The problem with "there's a mod for that" isn't that it's telling somebody about a mod, it's that if someone made a thread outlining a detailed, well thought-out suggestion, they almost certainly already know about a popular mod for it. It nearly always fails to inform anyone of anything, and is therefore pointless and annoying.
This should be in the normal Discussion board and not here, but whatever.
People who have that opinion often have a point. Some ideas are just too different to work well in Minecraft. It really depends on how specific it is. Usually game mechanics get this argument more than other suggestions.
You have to understand that people want to play Minecraft roughly the way it currently plays. They don't feel comfortable if your idea changes a lot of how the game works/feels. Your idea may be how you want to play Minecraft, but it's not how they want to play Minecraft, and within reason you should respect that. That doesn't mean they always have a valid argument.
I put this here because it only really comes up here.
I respect that people want minecraft to play the way it currently plays. The problem is that everybody sees that differently. The argument that something shouldn't be included in the game because it doesn't fit the "feel of Minecraft" is subjective, and can't be truly discussed in a reasonable and logical way. It also leads to the derailing of otherwise great threads, which prevents this forum from being properly used.
I draw the line at certain concepts, like guns (cannons and lasers are okay) and cars (railroad vehicles are okay).
Cannons are just oversized guns, and lasers are far more high-tech than guns. How are lasers better than guns?
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But cannons are also the very first form of a gunpowder weapon. Making them... low tech.
Then again, this depends on what kind of cannon you're talking about.
I pictured something along the lines of this:
And it also depends on the kind of gun being referred to. Muskets, on one hand, are basically a little cannon that you can hold in your arms. An AK-47, on the other hand, has a crapton of intricate little pieces and technologies in it and is made with machine-precision.
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Cannons are just oversized guns, and lasers are far more high-tech than guns. How are lasers better than guns?
Lasers are also applicable to just reflected light in terms of informal conversations, so a weaponized refracted light could be accomplished without high levels of technology. Like the death ray of associated with Archimedes.
The miniaturization of a technology is what makes it more advanced. The technology of a modern cellular phone could have been roughly accomplished in the 1950's beyond the inherent infrastructure necessary, but it would have fit inside a complex the size of a apartment building, and not in one's pocket. A cannon is the size it is not for power, but due to the primitive nature of the design and the needs inherent to it. That's what separates it from a gun. A cannon may have or two moving pieces, and that is for aiming purposes alone, but a gun would require upwards of five to function in a somewhat realistic manner.
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Cannons are just oversized guns, and lasers are far more high-tech than guns. How are lasers better than guns?
Cannons were invented before contemporary firearms, though. And we already have TNT. In fact, the "cannons" could just be more compact TNT cannons, built in the same manner that golems are now. I said lasers, because they are removed from the real world, and thus would not break verisimilitude as much as guns, or even cannons would. Couldn't you see one of those big iron golems firing a laser from its arm? It would just look and act like red lightning.
I think the issue is that a lot of the players on here more veteran than others. The "Alpha/InfDev Players". They want things to be the way they use to be, or to make Minecraft more challenging without the use of mods (this could also apply to anyone who feels this way). They're used to how Minecraft plays could probably get to The End in less than a couple of hours, or so. Then you have the "Beta Players", or the noobs as I've seen some people call them. They seem to like the new things add, or don't care too much about them. Of course, this isn't limit to specific groups. Personally, I like play with mods. Not everything suggested is going to add to vanilla. That's where mods comes into play. Vanilla isn't the only flavor a cup of Neapolitan ice cream. :tongue.gif:
I suppose I could have worded this better. My point is that arguing about the true feel of minecraft is pointless and a detriment to discussion. It gets brought up to the point of drowning out legitimate discussions, and often derails threads to the point that nothing is being discussed anymore. Minecraft does have a very certain feel to me, but I'm not going to allow that to cloud my view of new features that will build upon the overall theme. Neither should anybody. I'm just trying to improve discussion in the forums, and if I can prevent just one derailed thread I will be happy.
That doesn't mean that this shouldn't be included into minecraft, this only means a friendly "hey till it's official in minecraft maybe in some years, you can use this till then". :wink.gif:
I suppose I could have worded this better. My point is that arguing about the true feel of minecraft is pointless and a detriment to discussion. It gets brought up to the point of drowning out legitimate discussions, and often derails threads to the point that nothing is being discussed anymore. Minecraft does have a very certain feel to me, but I'm not going to allow that to cloud my view of new features that will build upon the overall theme. Neither should anybody. I'm just trying to improve discussion in the forums, and if I can prevent just one derailed thread I will be happy.
Yes, the "feel" of Minecraft if very subjective. The theme, however, isn't. Last I checked, Minecraft is a cliché fantasy game with the standard magic/super-low-techology that generally comes with that theme. Adding portal guns, automatic assault rifles, cars, jets, airplanes, computers, etc. would break that theme much like adding ballistic missiles would break, for example, Skyrim's theme.
There is a difference. I think some people tend to get "feel" and theme mixed up.
Yes, the "feel" of Minecraft if very subjective. The theme, however, isn't. Last I checked, Minecraft is a cliché fantasy game with the standard magic/super-low-techology that generally comes with that theme. Adding portal guns, automatic assault rifles, cars, jets, airplanes, computers, etc. would break that theme much like adding ballistic missiles would break, for example, Skyrim's theme.
There is a difference. I think some people tend to get "feel" and theme mixed up.
Pretty much this. Making spaceships and airplanes doesn't make sense because of the theme. But it doesn't mean we can't have similar things. Boom airship. Now you can fly and it fits the theme.
Some of the things people suggest just don't fit the theme, it's not about playstyle. Like c'mon, LASERS!? Why not just call them "trip wire."
Pretty much this. Making spaceships and airplanes doesn't make sense because of the theme. But it doesn't mean we can't have similar things. Boom airship. Now you can fly and it fits the theme.
Some of the things people suggest just don't fit the theme, it's not about playstyle. Like c'mon, LASERS!? Why not just call them "trip wire."
I agree. It's not that we don't want new, interesting, or different content, it's that the way they are suggsted often doesn't fit in with the theme of Minecraft.
Often, things like guns and such are suggested, but they don't fit in with Minecraft's basic tech level.
The highest tech thing in Minecraft, that doesn't use magic in some way, is probably the diamond gear, and maybe the jukebox. Everything else is a fusion of magic and technology.
If someone suggested a redstone gun, for example, I wouldn't say it doesn't fit the "feel" of minecraft, (though I might say it is either OP or uneeded :tongue.gif: ) because it actually might fit quite well.
People just need to get more creative with their suggestions for high tech gear, making sure to have some sort of magic involved in the idea, rather than ripping the idea straight out of real life. Because Minecraft is not like real life.
Upon every single update, there is always a plethora of threads in the discussion section complaining about how something does not fit in with the "feel" of Minecraft. These arguments are usually always poorly-worded and close minded. To some people, Minecraft might be a simple fantasy game. Some people see Minecraft as a mining, combat, survival game. Some people see it as a building game. Some people see Minecraft as a low-tech fantasy world, while others see it as a world teeming with potential for industry. Perspective on the feel of the game are wildy varied, but one thing is clear; arguing about the feel of Minecraft is just as silly as arguing about the feel of the real world. All evidence is circumstantial by nature. So please, stop. The creators will do what they please, and you always have the option to ignore it. Arguing something doesn't fit the feel of minecraft is as annoying and pointless as saying "There's a mod for that" in the suggestions forum.
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
People who have that opinion often have a point. Some ideas are just too different to work well in Minecraft. It really depends on how specific it is. Usually game mechanics get this argument more than other suggestions.
You have to understand that people want to play Minecraft roughly the way it currently plays. They don't feel comfortable if your idea changes a lot of how the game works/feels. Your idea may be how you want to play Minecraft, but it's not how they want to play Minecraft, and within reason you should respect that. That doesn't mean they always have a valid argument.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=155932
Crates
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=239467
Item Scrolling
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=174539
The problem with "there's a mod for that" isn't that it's telling somebody about a mod, it's that if someone made a thread outlining a detailed, well thought-out suggestion, they almost certainly already know about a popular mod for it. It nearly always fails to inform anyone of anything, and is therefore pointless and annoying.
I put this here because it only really comes up here.
I respect that people want minecraft to play the way it currently plays. The problem is that everybody sees that differently. The argument that something shouldn't be included in the game because it doesn't fit the "feel of Minecraft" is subjective, and can't be truly discussed in a reasonable and logical way. It also leads to the derailing of otherwise great threads, which prevents this forum from being properly used.
Cannons are just oversized guns, and lasers are far more high-tech than guns. How are lasers better than guns?
If I helped in any way, don't click that little green +, instead tell me how much you liked the post. (Only those who are incapable of earning rep the hard way have to beg for it in their signatures).
But cannons are also the very first form of a gunpowder weapon. Making them... low tech.
Then again, this depends on what kind of cannon you're talking about.
Twitter: @EvanLange7737
I pictured something along the lines of this:
And it also depends on the kind of gun being referred to. Muskets, on one hand, are basically a little cannon that you can hold in your arms. An AK-47, on the other hand, has a crapton of intricate little pieces and technologies in it and is made with machine-precision.
If I helped in any way, don't click that little green +, instead tell me how much you liked the post. (Only those who are incapable of earning rep the hard way have to beg for it in their signatures).
Lasers are also applicable to just reflected light in terms of informal conversations, so a weaponized refracted light could be accomplished without high levels of technology. Like the death ray of associated with Archimedes.
The miniaturization of a technology is what makes it more advanced. The technology of a modern cellular phone could have been roughly accomplished in the 1950's beyond the inherent infrastructure necessary, but it would have fit inside a complex the size of a apartment building, and not in one's pocket. A cannon is the size it is not for power, but due to the primitive nature of the design and the needs inherent to it. That's what separates it from a gun. A cannon may have or two moving pieces, and that is for aiming purposes alone, but a gun would require upwards of five to function in a somewhat realistic manner.
Cannons were invented before contemporary firearms, though. And we already have TNT. In fact, the "cannons" could just be more compact TNT cannons, built in the same manner that golems are now. I said lasers, because they are removed from the real world, and thus would not break verisimilitude as much as guns, or even cannons would. Couldn't you see one of those big iron golems firing a laser from its arm? It would just look and act like red lightning.
That is easily countered with:
There is a mod to get rid of that.
Yes, the "feel" of Minecraft if very subjective. The theme, however, isn't. Last I checked, Minecraft is a cliché fantasy game with the standard magic/super-low-techology that generally comes with that theme. Adding portal guns, automatic assault rifles, cars, jets, airplanes, computers, etc. would break that theme much like adding ballistic missiles would break, for example, Skyrim's theme.
There is a difference. I think some people tend to get "feel" and theme mixed up.
Hey! Hey you! Yeah you with the face! NARF!!
Pretty much this. Making spaceships and airplanes doesn't make sense because of the theme. But it doesn't mean we can't have similar things. Boom airship. Now you can fly and it fits the theme.
Some of the things people suggest just don't fit the theme, it's not about playstyle. Like c'mon, LASERS!? Why not just call them "trip wire."
I agree. It's not that we don't want new, interesting, or different content, it's that the way they are suggsted often doesn't fit in with the theme of Minecraft.
Often, things like guns and such are suggested, but they don't fit in with Minecraft's basic tech level.
The highest tech thing in Minecraft, that doesn't use magic in some way, is probably the diamond gear, and maybe the jukebox. Everything else is a fusion of magic and technology.
If someone suggested a redstone gun, for example, I wouldn't say it doesn't fit the "feel" of minecraft, (though I might say it is either OP or uneeded :tongue.gif: ) because it actually might fit quite well.
People just need to get more creative with their suggestions for high tech gear, making sure to have some sort of magic involved in the idea, rather than ripping the idea straight out of real life. Because Minecraft is not like real life.