I agree that world generation needs to be refined as a whole, and that this should be #1 priority before release, considering that biome generation changes can potentially wreck an existing world. Biomes need to be 100% complete and need no other adjusting by the time release arrives.
A like a lot of the comments here so far, but I thought I'd add a small note that I didn't see mentioned. We need Cocoa Trees to spawn in the world. Jeb apparently plans to add this, and something like this really should be done in time for the full release to allow new servers to generate them.
Just wanted to give my best opinion on what I'd like to see.
1. SOUND
I want to know where I am in minecraft, I want to hear the trees creek and moan in the wind, leaves rustle about, snapping branches at night, sound of moving sand in the deserts, harsh winds and the shifting of snow in the tundra and high mountains, soft breezes on the plains. Bubbling sounds of the swamp. Hear the waves out on the ocean. Listen to the rivers babble. Strange echos in caverns/strongholds/ravines. The sound of dripping water or lava, ETC.
Make the sound start to create an atmosphere. Imagine how creepy these can be at night.
2. EFFECTS
I want to see an occasional leaf drop from trees (smaller leaves not blocks), to glance at a roaming tumble weed in the desert, flower petals dancing on the plains, ETC.
3. BIOME SPECIFIC MOBS
Mobs born only in one type of biome and that biome only. I won't get too imaginative . . . but the only REAL biome specific mob we have currently is the Mooshroom, and I'd like to see this element expanded upon.
4. SLOWER BIOME TRANSITIONS
Don't let a new biome just begin, prepare gradients that will slowly drift into the next biome. Mostly for grass, but perhaps sand as well could have a sprinkle of grass.
All in all these would be great to see, so far we have limited variation when it comes to these biomes, and I do hope changes are on the horizon.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."
::Quote from The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes
I agree that world generation needs to be refined as a whole, and that this should be #1 priority before release, considering that biome generation changes can potentially wreck an existing world. Biomes need to be 100% complete and need no other adjusting by the time release arrives.
A like a lot of the comments here so far, but I thought I'd add a small note that I didn't see mentioned. We need Cocoa Trees to spawn in the world. Jeb apparently plans to add this, and something like this really should be done in time for the full release to allow new servers to generate them.
Cocoa trees would be nice, I'd also like apple trees. They can both be in super rare biomes so it's a nice exotic tree type to search out and then mass produce.
It'd be nice if apples and cocoa that you find in chests could be turned into saplings for their trees like how pumpkins can be crafted into seeds.
And also make chests have a random chance of having any type of seed or sapling, so that if you start in a biome where it doesn't occur naturally, you still have a chance of growing it by finding the seeds/saplings in chests in dungeons and such. Getting a birch sapling might not be an impressive find most of the time, but if you start in a desert or other biome with no trees, or just one with no birch trees, it could be very useful.
About those who chose to add/remove biomes, I picked that option but only for the adding part. I don't think any of the biomes should be removed. I enjoy variety, and odd ones like mushroom biomes are balanced by how rare they are.
More fantasy biomes would be nice, tho they should be as rare as mushroom biomes to make them special.
Having more regular biomes and more rare fantasy biomes makes exploration so much more fun.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Evidence suggests that many people quote posts without reading them in their entirety.
Still no infinite strongholds D:
Height increases on the map just isn't feasible for most computers. Imagine the bitching when frames drop to 1 fps due to a larger height limit. While I agree, it's nice to have a ceiling that's much higher than 128m, it's a tall order on many systems.
As for biomes, I pretty much agree with everything you said. I'd like to see more variety in trees. For example, in the savannah biome, there should be flat-top trees. In tropical rain forest biomes, there should be palm trees. Perhaps palm trees can appear in some desert oases as well.
Height increases on the map just isn't feasible for most computers. Imagine the bitching when frames drop to 1 fps due to a larger height limit. While I agree, it's nice to have a ceiling that's much higher than 128m, it's a tall order on many systems.
Thats why it needs attention. Just increasing one variable to allow a greater Y does cause a lot of performance issues. I don't think this improvement is an easy one, or likely to be coming out before the game it out of beta, but it is such an important one that has such a huge impact on the game it should be attended to. Changing the way the terrain is generated to a system like cubic chunks would be a great improvement, and I hate to think it is being ignored because it is challenging.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
More Ocean Life: Kelp, Coral, Crabs and Jellyfish; Coconut Palm trees for beaches and islands. Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
Cocoa trees would be nice, I'd also like apple trees. ... It'd be nice if apples and cocoa that you find in chests could be turned into saplings for their trees like how pumpkins can be crafted into seeds.
And also make chests have a random chance of having any type of seed or sapling, so that if you start in a biome where it doesn't occur naturally, you still have a chance of growing it by finding the seeds/saplings in chests in dungeons and such. Getting a birch sapling might not be an impressive find most of the time, but if you start in a desert or other biome with no trees, or just one with no birch trees, it could be very useful.
...
I've long been a proponent of adding Apples, Cocoa Beans and my recent standard Coconuts as an item like saplings that can drop from trees. Considering how fundamental trees are to the Minecraft experience, and how long Apples and Cocoa Beans have been in the game, it is disappointing that they haven't been fully implemented.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
More Ocean Life: Kelp, Coral, Crabs and Jellyfish; Coconut Palm trees for beaches and islands. Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
Oceans take the cake when it comes to missing content... you know there's not nearly enough variety when there are no unique mobs or characteristics other than being really deep. It definitely should be among the first projects upon return to development.
I personally, think the three most important terrain generation changes are as follows:
- Making snow covered biomes more common but not quite as large. (or returning to taiga/tundra or adding snow above certain elevations in mountains.)
-Bringing back jungles/rainforests. (Include a cocoa tree that grows there)
- Ocean biome work... primarily more trees/ unique trees (coconut palm) on the desert islands, maybe more sand on the islands, maybe some new unique mobs/flora underwater or shipwrecks with treasure to make it more interesting.
IMO the critical biome changes are those that affect terrain generation:
Beaches We lost them and they should come back.
Mines: They are too messy. They need to be generated so that they connect cleanly.
Combination of mines + ravines + cave systems. They currently perforate the world too much, interfering with orderly mining techniques. A simple solution would be too keep them at levels 14 and up:
That would give plenty of "hot resources" for the spelunkers,
while leaving levels 6-13 for those that prefer orderly mining methods.
Related to this I think the order that the 'structures' generated in could be adjusted. Currently from what I have seen mineshafts generate after both ravines and strongholds. If mineshafts were changed to generate before ravines and strongholds it would solve 2 problems.
1) Mineshaft materials would no longer be floating ridiculously in ravines.
2) As evidenced in Jebs livecast where he searches and finds a stronghold, mineshafts overwrite stonghold sections. As strongholds are rarer and are the only place where the portal the new ender realm will be found strongholds should be generated after mineshafts. Just imagine walking into an ender portal room and discovering that a mine shaft has cut half of the unplaceable portal blocks out of the room.
I've long been a proponent of adding Apples, Cocoa Beans and my recent standard Coconuts as an item like saplings that can drop from trees. Considering how fundamental trees are to the Minecraft experience, and how long Apples and Cocoa Beans have been in the game, it is disappointing that they haven't been fully implemented.
I support all of these trees. Coconuts and palm trees would help make the ocean biome a bit more interesting.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When no one was looking, the Endermen took forty blocks.
They took 40 blocks. That’s as many as four tens. And that’s horrible.
I'd like to see an option to have the lower cloud layer. I miss mountain ranges dramatically piercing through the clouds, and looking down on them from above.
Mountains should generate in all biomes and the transitions between biomes should be more fuzzy. Also please change that that hideous splotchy seafloor.
While I often replaced the clound png with a blank when I was building near the cap, I liked the old aesthetic of "so tall it's above the clouds" as well. Of course, that would work better with a greater Y limit (you could even have multiple tiers of clouds) allowing a larger build space under the clouds.
I think the main problem with the patterning of the sea floor is that you can see it - because it is so barren, no Kelp forest or Coral reefs - there is nothing to look at except the geology.
Don't take the comment of "you can see it" to mean I like the arbitrary sudden darkeness inflicted while underwater around 12 meters below sea level - I strongly dislike both kinds of arbitrary darkness. Having a dark ocean floor is just as achievable by allowing a more variable ocean floor topography that includes deep sea trenches and canyons. Such places would be excellent remote locations for sea monsters.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
More Ocean Life: Kelp, Coral, Crabs and Jellyfish; Coconut Palm trees for beaches and islands. Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
Thats why it needs attention. Just increasing one variable to allow a greater Y does cause a lot of performance issues. I don't think this improvement is an easy one, or likely to be coming out before the game it out of beta, but it is such an important one that has such a huge impact on the game it should be attended to. Changing the way the terrain is generated to a system like cubic chunks would be a great improvement, and I hate to think it is being ignored because it is challenging.
Mathematically, it seems to go in powers of two. That's why you can only double or half it right now. 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, etc.
Altering the height limit outside of that scope will require another overhaul of the terrain generation, that may or may not be compatible with the old one.
Altering the height limit outside of that scope will require another overhaul of the terrain generation, that may or may not be compatible with the old one.
The current, and forseeable, approach to changes in the terrain generator have been to simply treat what exists in an old map as a nigh-inert blob around which the terrain is generated anyway. Backwards compatibility has always been a minor concern.
I would expect the payoff of a more variant and flexible world building system to be worth the minor hiccup. The earlier they implement such an important change, the easier it will be to get over and move on.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
More Ocean Life: Kelp, Coral, Crabs and Jellyfish; Coconut Palm trees for beaches and islands. Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
Totally agree with what the OP says. In 1.9, the world generation is fairly the same everytime. The huge annoying pine forests, the plains, and the deserts, with a bit of mountain and snow thrown in. What I would REALLY love is the old rainforest biome back. I miss that biome soooo much, and the forests in Minecraft need more variation than just pines, which are all that grow now.
Totally agree with what the OP says. In 1.9, the world generation is fairly the same everytime. The huge annoying pine forests, the plains, and the deserts, with a bit of mountain and snow thrown in. What I would REALLY love is the old rainforest biome back. I miss that biome soooo much, and the forests in Minecraft need more variation than just pines, which are all that grow now.
Pine Forest has had its % or frequency increased in the generator, but the other types of forest biome are still around. Except Jungle, I am fairly certain that one vanished, or has been made so rare as to appear gone.
Jens did recently tweet that there were some tweaks to the generator needed, which or what kind he hasn't yet specified:
Quote from jeb_ »
I think we still need to tweak biomes
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
More Ocean Life: Kelp, Coral, Crabs and Jellyfish; Coconut Palm trees for beaches and islands. Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
For the people choosing Mountain/Extreme Hills as the biome most in need of changes, what is it about them that makes them such a priority? Their lack of snow covered rocky peaks, not appealing to an epic "mountain feel"? Perhaps the new generic appearance lacking trees and always being grassy, which comes from all other biomes seemingly losing topographical variation? I know I have seen a thread or two regarding a dislike of the supposed increase in their fantastic/flying appearance. Is it that they simply aren't or can't be tall enough to achieve a proper mountain look or scale?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
More Ocean Life: Kelp, Coral, Crabs and Jellyfish; Coconut Palm trees for beaches and islands. Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
For the people choosing Mountain/Extreme Hills as the biome most in need of changes, what is it about them that makes them such a priority?
Would it be their lack of snow covered rocky peaks, not appealing to an epic "mountain feel"? Perhaps the new generic appearance lacking trees and always being grassy, which comes from all other biomes seemingly losing topographical variation? I know I have seen a thread or two regarding a dislike of the supposed increase in their fantastic/flying appearance. Is it that they simply aren't or can't be tall enough to achieve a proper mountain look or scale?
The torrent of redundant pre4 related threads seems to have buried this. There are still a lot of concerns being voiced about the terrain and map generation.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
More Ocean Life: Kelp, Coral, Crabs and Jellyfish; Coconut Palm trees for beaches and islands. Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
I want the desert to be more explorable because all it is, is sand,cactuses,dead saplings, and water holes. The Desert needs more stuff because right now it may be the biggest biome but its the most boring one.
A like a lot of the comments here so far, but I thought I'd add a small note that I didn't see mentioned. We need Cocoa Trees to spawn in the world. Jeb apparently plans to add this, and something like this really should be done in time for the full release to allow new servers to generate them.
Just wanted to give my best opinion on what I'd like to see.
1. SOUND
I want to know where I am in minecraft, I want to hear the trees creek and moan in the wind, leaves rustle about, snapping branches at night, sound of moving sand in the deserts, harsh winds and the shifting of snow in the tundra and high mountains, soft breezes on the plains. Bubbling sounds of the swamp. Hear the waves out on the ocean. Listen to the rivers babble. Strange echos in caverns/strongholds/ravines. The sound of dripping water or lava, ETC.
Make the sound start to create an atmosphere. Imagine how creepy these can be at night.
2. EFFECTS
I want to see an occasional leaf drop from trees (smaller leaves not blocks), to glance at a roaming tumble weed in the desert, flower petals dancing on the plains, ETC.
3. BIOME SPECIFIC MOBS
Mobs born only in one type of biome and that biome only. I won't get too imaginative . . . but the only REAL biome specific mob we have currently is the Mooshroom, and I'd like to see this element expanded upon.
4. SLOWER BIOME TRANSITIONS
Don't let a new biome just begin, prepare gradients that will slowly drift into the next biome. Mostly for grass, but perhaps sand as well could have a sprinkle of grass.
All in all these would be great to see, so far we have limited variation when it comes to these biomes, and I do hope changes are on the horizon.
::Quote from The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes
Cocoa trees would be nice, I'd also like apple trees. They can both be in super rare biomes so it's a nice exotic tree type to search out and then mass produce.
It'd be nice if apples and cocoa that you find in chests could be turned into saplings for their trees like how pumpkins can be crafted into seeds.
And also make chests have a random chance of having any type of seed or sapling, so that if you start in a biome where it doesn't occur naturally, you still have a chance of growing it by finding the seeds/saplings in chests in dungeons and such. Getting a birch sapling might not be an impressive find most of the time, but if you start in a desert or other biome with no trees, or just one with no birch trees, it could be very useful.
About those who chose to add/remove biomes, I picked that option but only for the adding part. I don't think any of the biomes should be removed. I enjoy variety, and odd ones like mushroom biomes are balanced by how rare they are.
More fantasy biomes would be nice, tho they should be as rare as mushroom biomes to make them special.
Having more regular biomes and more rare fantasy biomes makes exploration so much more fun.
Still no infinite strongholds D:
Height increase would be awesome if Mojang put in the effort, but I suppose the Cubic Chunks mod will have to do.
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
As for biomes, I pretty much agree with everything you said. I'd like to see more variety in trees. For example, in the savannah biome, there should be flat-top trees. In tropical rain forest biomes, there should be palm trees. Perhaps palm trees can appear in some desert oases as well.
KEKDOT Highways & Freeways in Minecraft - Stack Interchange
Thats why it needs attention. Just increasing one variable to allow a greater Y does cause a lot of performance issues. I don't think this improvement is an easy one, or likely to be coming out before the game it out of beta, but it is such an important one that has such a huge impact on the game it should be attended to. Changing the way the terrain is generated to a system like cubic chunks would be a great improvement, and I hate to think it is being ignored because it is challenging.
Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
I've long been a proponent of adding Apples, Cocoa Beans and my recent standard Coconuts as an item like saplings that can drop from trees. Considering how fundamental trees are to the Minecraft experience, and how long Apples and Cocoa Beans have been in the game, it is disappointing that they haven't been fully implemented.
Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
- Making snow covered biomes more common but not quite as large. (or returning to taiga/tundra or adding snow above certain elevations in mountains.)
-Bringing back jungles/rainforests. (Include a cocoa tree that grows there)
- Ocean biome work... primarily more trees/ unique trees (coconut palm) on the desert islands, maybe more sand on the islands, maybe some new unique mobs/flora underwater or shipwrecks with treasure to make it more interesting.
Related to this I think the order that the 'structures' generated in could be adjusted. Currently from what I have seen mineshafts generate after both ravines and strongholds. If mineshafts were changed to generate before ravines and strongholds it would solve 2 problems.
1) Mineshaft materials would no longer be floating ridiculously in ravines.
2) As evidenced in Jebs livecast where he searches and finds a stronghold, mineshafts overwrite stonghold sections. As strongholds are rarer and are the only place where the portal the new ender realm will be found strongholds should be generated after mineshafts. Just imagine walking into an ender portal room and discovering that a mine shaft has cut half of the unplaceable portal blocks out of the room.
I support all of these trees. Coconuts and palm trees would help make the ocean biome a bit more interesting.
They took 40 blocks. That’s as many as four tens. And that’s horrible.
The desert transitions are just jarring. It's weird being at a point where a forest, swamp, and desert meet. It just doesn't feel quite right.
While I often replaced the clound png with a blank when I was building near the cap, I liked the old aesthetic of "so tall it's above the clouds" as well. Of course, that would work better with a greater Y limit (you could even have multiple tiers of clouds) allowing a larger build space under the clouds.
I think the main problem with the patterning of the sea floor is that you can see it - because it is so barren, no Kelp forest or Coral reefs - there is nothing to look at except the geology.
Don't take the comment of "you can see it" to mean I like the arbitrary sudden darkeness inflicted while underwater around 12 meters below sea level - I strongly dislike both kinds of arbitrary darkness. Having a dark ocean floor is just as achievable by allowing a more variable ocean floor topography that includes deep sea trenches and canyons. Such places would be excellent remote locations for sea monsters.
Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
Mathematically, it seems to go in powers of two. That's why you can only double or half it right now. 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, etc.
Altering the height limit outside of that scope will require another overhaul of the terrain generation, that may or may not be compatible with the old one.
KEKDOT Highways & Freeways in Minecraft - Stack Interchange
The current, and forseeable, approach to changes in the terrain generator have been to simply treat what exists in an old map as a nigh-inert blob around which the terrain is generated anyway. Backwards compatibility has always been a minor concern.
I would expect the payoff of a more variant and flexible world building system to be worth the minor hiccup. The earlier they implement such an important change, the easier it will be to get over and move on.
Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
Pine Forest has had its % or frequency increased in the generator, but the other types of forest biome are still around. Except Jungle, I am fairly certain that one vanished, or has been made so rare as to appear gone.
Jens did recently tweet that there were some tweaks to the generator needed, which or what kind he hasn't yet specified:
Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
Would it be their lack of snow covered rocky peaks, not appealing to an epic "mountain feel"? Perhaps the new generic appearance lacking trees and always being grassy, which comes from all other biomes seemingly losing topographical variation? I know I have seen a thread or two regarding a dislike of the supposed increase in their fantastic/flying appearance. Is it that they simply aren't or can't be tall enough to achieve a proper mountain look or scale?
The torrent of redundant pre4 related threads seems to have buried this. There are still a lot of concerns being voiced about the terrain and map generation.
Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?