Just because something is easy doesnt mean it cant be easier, Its like this, Just because cold butter is easy to spread, It can by easier to spread when warm. Not defending him, Just explaining his point.
If someone says "The butter has become warm", it would have to have previously not been warm. It's a binary, transitive state instead of a scalar description. "The butter has become warmer" would be usable in many more situations.
Likewise, "The game has become easy" implies that it used to not be easy.
If someone says "The butter has become warm", it would have to have previously not been warm. It's a binary, transitive state instead of a scalar description. "The butter has become warmer" would be usable in many more situations.
Likewise, "The game has become easy" implies that it used to not be easy.
Yes but he then clarified and said has become easier. Which is in all reality true, I can kill everything with two hits from any sword now, Why find Diamonds when everything dies with stone?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Its not flaming when its true, I should be able to speak my mind on my own thread, warn status 10%? Thats just a badge of honor.
Child Please. This game is still in development not beta. We aren't testing a finished product we are playing a game that is still being developed by the developer (Adding new features and content).
Also what weight does a majority hold if they're all children and their opinions have no relevance to the actual content and just say "That's cool because its made of snow". Not actually saying it is that was just giving an example.
Just a tip about making a point...
Try not to insult those who hold an opinion different than yours. All that does is to put up a big neon sign saying "Those who disagree with my opinion are wrong for the simple fact that they disagree with me."
Insults, dismissiveness and belittlement are not ways to get a point across. Period. The only thing you do is to mark yourself as a self-righteous idiot and no one will take you seriously unless they already agree with you.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All moderation on forums is biased. Mods and admins do play favorites. Thus there is truly no point in "playing by the rules" since enforcement of said rules is subjective. That is why I refuse to censor my speech and will call things exactly as I see them without reservation.
FailedtoOpen, the best thing you can do is ignore the children, fanboys, and NDF on this board. They will worship Notch and the buggy ground he walks on until they find a new messiah to love. Notch can do no wrong in their eyes, no matter how horrid parts of this game are.
So many incomplete "features" that are months old plague this game, and more so than that, have been completely forgotten. Each new feature is like a toy to Notch, and once he gets bored with it he moves to something else, I call it the "shiny" effect. The old and dull gets left behind, incomplete and with seemingly no purpose (jukebox) while the new feature gets worked on until something else that is shinier appears.
So...basically anyone who brings up a rebuttal point is to be dismissed because they don't agree with you? Are you a politician?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All moderation on forums is biased. Mods and admins do play favorites. Thus there is truly no point in "playing by the rules" since enforcement of said rules is subjective. That is why I refuse to censor my speech and will call things exactly as I see them without reservation.
If this was how they were handling updates after a final release of the game, your rant would be justified. You bought the alpha/beta, read the disclaimer, and got exactly what you paid for: The ability to play the game before the final release.
You don't like how Mojang/Notch develops their games? Then don't play them until it's a final release. Simple as that.
1) Call of Duty is a standard fps, so it is clear what elements are needed and what aren't. Minecraft is not a standard game, so during development its not a bad idea to throw things in, just for the heck of it, to see if it works or not.
2) Fallout 3 has huge design flaws, holding it up like some shining example of game design is silly.
Your general theme of there being a bit too much experimentalism going on when the final release is close I do agree with, although its not that easy to balance everything until everything is in place. Also the real issue is that they waited too long to start adding these elements, now that we are at this point they might as well still add them. They are working pretty hard on the game right now, and I would say we are in OK shape (not the best shape) if all of the elements are in place next month. That only gives them a month to fix the major bugs and the balance... I don't think the final is going to be much different then beta. Other commercial games have patches too.
hers the thing.. No amount of your bitching will change what is going on. Notch Doesn't follow the rule book notch makes stuff and says deal with it. You sir are comparing an incomplete indie game that dosent ins't a traditional genre and the devs dont do things like most other devs. your comparing that to other games?.....
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Your a such a great friend that if we were both in a falling plane and there was only one parachute... I would feel really bad and think of you often.
1) Add something
2) Fix and balance everything in the game.
3) Add something else
4) Fix and balance everything in the game.
5) Add something else
6) Fix and balance everything in the game.
7) Add something else
8) Fix and balance everything in the game.
9) Add something else
10) Fix and balance everything in the game.
11) Add something else
12) Fix and balance everything in the game.
13) Go to step 1
It makes sense to add a bunch of content, and then get it all working. Does this work well for users currently playing pre-releases and betas? No. But that is why they are pre-releases and betas, and not expansions or updates.
You are holding an indie game developer to the standards of mult-billion dollar gaming industry companies. It's an indie game, being developed on an indie developers personal preference. If you don't like how he operates the beta for Minecraft, then wait for the final release.
Also @ the OP: At one point in your minecraft 1.9 review on youtube, you are "urked that they released 1.9 so early". It's a pre-release. They KNOW it's full of bugs and problems, this will actually make 1.9 more stable than it would've been.
IIRC Mojang is using SCRUM as a development philosophy. It works by adding a user experience to the idea backlog, and developers grab a user experience from the backlog and implement it. The other big tenant is to add the concept early and then iterate on it in subsequent releases to flesh it out more/bug fix/etc. We see evidence of this with the NPCs, they are being added in the most simple form in 1.9 and will be iterated upon for 1.10. While this looks like (and could very well be) whimsical planning, it is also part of how this method works. It also means the "low hanging fruit" in the backlog also added in as well.
Pseudo side tangent: I think the snowman is a bigger deal than you think. Before snowmen minecraft didn't really support crafting by block placement (that I know of). This adds substantial, new functionality to the game. My hope is that this feature will be expanded upon and the snowman was something "simple" to show it off.
This is not about MC being Beta. This is about the devs making tons of unecessary changes and additons, when they should be polishing the game right now. Minecraft has been in development since 2009, now, two months before release, they decide "hey lets turn minecraft into something different and add a lot of funy stuf"
they added what they said they would be adding for months.
funny stuff? only funny things i can think of are the golems(craftable only, so notfound in the "wild") and the mushroom stuff, which i hear are rare as ****.
being a beta tester is a *****, isnt it? you guys know this is all part of the same one adventure update, right? they said they would be splitting it up. you guys are so ungrateful. a couple problems and you jump up their asses before they even have a chance to fix anything. wait for the release and if they still have major problems then you can *****.
This is not about MC being Beta. This is about the devs making tons of unecessary changes and additons, when they should be polishing the game right now. Minecraft has been in development since 2009, now, two months before release, they decide "hey lets turn minecraft into something different and add a lot of funy stuf"
Unnecessary changes? No changes since 1.0 have been "necessary" (besides bug fixes). They are adding new content, new content that was announced a LONG time ago. YOU think they should be polishing the game. Guess what, it's not your game. They will polish it when they are done adding the content they want in the final release.
They are not adding a lot of which they planed, they are adding a lot random crap. Also this inst about beta testing. Its about mojang loosing their focus.
Their focus is whatever they want their focus to be. It's an indie game company.
They are not adding a lot of which they planed, they are adding a lot random crap. Also this inst about beta testing. Its about mojang loosing their focus.
They were focused on what made minecraft successful, lets call it the minecraft formula. With the addition of things like xp and hunger, they have changed their course. I just dont think, that tacking on more and more features at a late point of development is going to work
So...what were they focused on? "Stuff" is not an answer.
I do not believe some of you are getting his point. The OP clearly knows it's a beta, it will have bugs. The issue is notch adding features that are not complete. For example, the Slimes. They did not have a point until a few months later. Same thing can be applied to the XP bar. It's in the game but nothing can be done with it yet.
They are not adding a lot of which they planed, they are adding a lot random crap. Also this inst about beta testing. Its about mojang loosing their focus.
durring the development of the game. if the game was finished im sure your points would be more valid, but its not finished. its still being developed.
Yes, they are free to do what ever they want. But Minecraft is Mojangs biggest asset. If they fudge it, they will possibly fail as a company. Minecrafts success has a reason, and the further they dilute gameplay with random half assed crap, the more people will lose interest. But maybe their success makes them believe, that whatever they touch will turn to gold.
dilute gameplay? the gameplay consists of mining, crafting(minecraft)and exploring. how has any of those things been diluted?
I think you are missing the point. The game is not done. You didn't play Fallout 3 while it was in beta, so you have nothing to compare against. I'm sure it was missing a ton of content too. Ya, know while they were still working on making it!
Exactly.
I *guarantee* you that if you go play a game like Fallout 3 during a time when it's only like half finished, what you get is this hideous, jumbled mess. Game development is like that.
The difference is, games like Fallout 3 are pretty much NEVER available to the player during true development. What most developers call "beta" is actually "Well the game is basically FINISHED, but we need to test for final bugs, balance, and server load".
With MINECRAFT, "beta" really does mean "not even feature complete yet".
And to the OP....
Really, DONT complain about things "not having a reason" when the game ISNT finished. The EXP bar? Has a reason, yes. It'll be in full effect in an upcoming update. Same with all of the new items that dont do anything yet. The code for that stuff was added probably because it was simply the correct time to do so. As for why stuff like Mooshrooms are in there? Notch and team have a good sense of humor, and unlike many on this forums (no, I'm not specifically referring to the OP here, I mean in general) they also have a good sense of FUN.
They were focused on what made minecraft successful, lets call it the minecraft formula. With the addition of things like xp and hunger, they have changed their course. I just dont think, that tacking on more and more features at a late point of development is going to work
Actually, the opposite is true.
Notch HAS been focused. He'd mentioned things like hunger and more "game like elements" for a LONG time. This was stuff he'd always intended on adding; it's just that it didnt start to HAPPEN until just recently.
I dont think the Minecraft formula has changed at all. I think it's getting BETTER. Too many people think of this as a game where "all you do is build things". Now, the game is getting more elements for those of us that like to do things beyond just building, like exploring and fighting monsters and finding cool stuff. That's ALWAYS been part of the goal.
And Minecraft has always in part been inspired by the Roguelike genre; I think that's where the hunger idea comes from, among other things. I know some people are bothered by hunger, but from a design point it makes sense; it forces the player to have to use skill to overcome dangerous situations, rather than just spam healing items to win a fight that they did not have the skill to beat. It leads to greater satisfaction down the line, for many players. It also works with the changes to the food, such as the fact that it stacks now.
Yes, they are free to do what ever they want. But Minecraft is Mojangs biggest asset. If they fudge it, they will possibly fail as a company. Minecrafts success has a reason, and the further they dilute gameplay with random half assed crap, the more people will lose interest. But maybe their success makes them believe, that whatever they touch will turn to gold.
If people don't wanted the "diluted crap", GUESS WHAT! They don't have to use it. They can play full sandbox, peaceful, creative mode, mods .... you can still play however you want. " Also, this is classic "If they fudge it up, they will fail". That's like saying "If you lose, then you don't win". Great business advice.
They were focused on what made minecraft successful, lets call it the minecraft formula. With the addition of things like xp and hunger, they have changed their course. I just dont think, that tacking on more and more features at a late point of development is going to work
You don't have to use XP or hunger. You can play the game however you want. When the game is final, and out of beta, with mods or options you can customize and play EXACTLY how you want. It's better to have more options, than less options.
Here is the thing. Once you throw your game into the public domain, build up a following, and also make them pay for it you essentially forfeit the right to just say "It's my game I'll do what I want". You have to start tailoring the game for the public, PBC is a channel that essentially owns itself, however they can't just throw adult movies on their because it is their channel (bad example but meh). You have to have a balance between additions that you (the developer) find interesting and also additions that your fan base will like.
Everyone is still missing the point and that's whats the sad thing. Do you even realize the game is still BETA! Meaning IN DEVELOPMENT AND OPEN FOR TESTING. If you don't like it don't test it and take note of my words. I am saying testing because even though you guys think your playing minecraft what you really are doing is testing it for issues that's what a beta is all about not to cry over every issue you find.
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If I have helped you or made you laugh return a token of your gratitude and +rep me. --->
If someone says "The butter has become warm", it would have to have previously not been warm. It's a binary, transitive state instead of a scalar description. "The butter has become warmer" would be usable in many more situations.
Likewise, "The game has become easy" implies that it used to not be easy.
Yes but he then clarified and said has become easier. Which is in all reality true, I can kill everything with two hits from any sword now, Why find Diamonds when everything dies with stone?
Just a tip about making a point...
Try not to insult those who hold an opinion different than yours. All that does is to put up a big neon sign saying "Those who disagree with my opinion are wrong for the simple fact that they disagree with me."
Insults, dismissiveness and belittlement are not ways to get a point across. Period. The only thing you do is to mark yourself as a self-righteous idiot and no one will take you seriously unless they already agree with you.
So...basically anyone who brings up a rebuttal point is to be dismissed because they don't agree with you? Are you a politician?
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Curse PremiumYou don't like how Mojang/Notch develops their games? Then don't play them until it's a final release. Simple as that.
1) Call of Duty is a standard fps, so it is clear what elements are needed and what aren't. Minecraft is not a standard game, so during development its not a bad idea to throw things in, just for the heck of it, to see if it works or not.
2) Fallout 3 has huge design flaws, holding it up like some shining example of game design is silly.
Your general theme of there being a bit too much experimentalism going on when the final release is close I do agree with, although its not that easy to balance everything until everything is in place. Also the real issue is that they waited too long to start adding these elements, now that we are at this point they might as well still add them. They are working pretty hard on the game right now, and I would say we are in OK shape (not the best shape) if all of the elements are in place next month. That only gives them a month to fix the major bugs and the balance... I don't think the final is going to be much different then beta. Other commercial games have patches too.
I also hope the mod support is added soon.
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Curse Premium1) Add something
2) Fix and balance everything in the game.
3) Add something else
4) Fix and balance everything in the game.
5) Add something else
6) Fix and balance everything in the game.
7) Add something else
8) Fix and balance everything in the game.
9) Add something else
10) Fix and balance everything in the game.
11) Add something else
12) Fix and balance everything in the game.
13) Go to step 1
It makes sense to add a bunch of content, and then get it all working. Does this work well for users currently playing pre-releases and betas? No. But that is why they are pre-releases and betas, and not expansions or updates.
You are holding an indie game developer to the standards of mult-billion dollar gaming industry companies. It's an indie game, being developed on an indie developers personal preference. If you don't like how he operates the beta for Minecraft, then wait for the final release.
Also @ the OP: At one point in your minecraft 1.9 review on youtube, you are "urked that they released 1.9 so early". It's a pre-release. They KNOW it's full of bugs and problems, this will actually make 1.9 more stable than it would've been.
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Curse PremiumPseudo side tangent: I think the snowman is a bigger deal than you think. Before snowmen minecraft didn't really support crafting by block placement (that I know of). This adds substantial, new functionality to the game. My hope is that this feature will be expanded upon and the snowman was something "simple" to show it off.
they added what they said they would be adding for months.
funny stuff? only funny things i can think of are the golems(craftable only, so notfound in the "wild") and the mushroom stuff, which i hear are rare as ****.
being a beta tester is a *****, isnt it? you guys know this is all part of the same one adventure update, right? they said they would be splitting it up. you guys are so ungrateful. a couple problems and you jump up their asses before they even have a chance to fix anything. wait for the release and if they still have major problems then you can *****.
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Curse PremiumUnnecessary changes? No changes since 1.0 have been "necessary" (besides bug fixes). They are adding new content, new content that was announced a LONG time ago. YOU think they should be polishing the game. Guess what, it's not your game. They will polish it when they are done adding the content they want in the final release.
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Curse PremiumTheir focus is whatever they want their focus to be. It's an indie game company.
Don't like their "focus", then don't play.
What were they 'focused' on before 1.8?
So...what were they focused on? "Stuff" is not an answer.
durring the development of the game. if the game was finished im sure your points would be more valid, but its not finished. its still being developed.
dilute gameplay? the gameplay consists of mining, crafting(minecraft)and exploring. how has any of those things been diluted?
Exactly.
I *guarantee* you that if you go play a game like Fallout 3 during a time when it's only like half finished, what you get is this hideous, jumbled mess. Game development is like that.
The difference is, games like Fallout 3 are pretty much NEVER available to the player during true development. What most developers call "beta" is actually "Well the game is basically FINISHED, but we need to test for final bugs, balance, and server load".
With MINECRAFT, "beta" really does mean "not even feature complete yet".
And to the OP....
Really, DONT complain about things "not having a reason" when the game ISNT finished. The EXP bar? Has a reason, yes. It'll be in full effect in an upcoming update. Same with all of the new items that dont do anything yet. The code for that stuff was added probably because it was simply the correct time to do so. As for why stuff like Mooshrooms are in there? Notch and team have a good sense of humor, and unlike many on this forums (no, I'm not specifically referring to the OP here, I mean in general) they also have a good sense of FUN.
Actually, the opposite is true.
Notch HAS been focused. He'd mentioned things like hunger and more "game like elements" for a LONG time. This was stuff he'd always intended on adding; it's just that it didnt start to HAPPEN until just recently.
I dont think the Minecraft formula has changed at all. I think it's getting BETTER. Too many people think of this as a game where "all you do is build things". Now, the game is getting more elements for those of us that like to do things beyond just building, like exploring and fighting monsters and finding cool stuff. That's ALWAYS been part of the goal.
And Minecraft has always in part been inspired by the Roguelike genre; I think that's where the hunger idea comes from, among other things. I know some people are bothered by hunger, but from a design point it makes sense; it forces the player to have to use skill to overcome dangerous situations, rather than just spam healing items to win a fight that they did not have the skill to beat. It leads to greater satisfaction down the line, for many players. It also works with the changes to the food, such as the fact that it stacks now.
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Curse PremiumIf people don't wanted the "diluted crap", GUESS WHAT! They don't have to use it. They can play full sandbox, peaceful, creative mode, mods .... you can still play however you want. " Also, this is classic "If they fudge it up, they will fail". That's like saying "If you lose, then you don't win". Great business advice.
You don't have to use XP or hunger. You can play the game however you want. When the game is final, and out of beta, with mods or options you can customize and play EXACTLY how you want. It's better to have more options, than less options.
This thread was not pointless at all...
May the force be without you.