Great testing. So you mention that animals will respawn in only a perfectly sculpted chunk which is rare. What exactly would this chunk be? Forest/taiga chunk that is under the animal cap? Also for wool, if I understand correctly we're basically screwed, besides string, because at the moment sheep never regrow their wool?
I guess I'm still a little confused because it seems from what people have found, animals CAN respawn. However realistically and practically they won't because the conditions needed are ridiculous?
It doesn't matter what biome the chunk is, as long as it's not desert or ocean. I've noticed grasslands have the most spawns. The "perfectly sculpted chunk" is, from bedrock to skylimit, a 16x16 grass platform every 3 layers, lit by sunlight. Even then, I've done this x8 and only had two cows spawn. The chunk will never be reproduced in a normal survival gameplay, so it's not "rare" that it will happen, it's impossible. You need to make it manually. As for sheep, yes, they do not grow wool back in 1.8, they will always stay sheered.
People have found animals can respawn, myself included, it's just the conditions needed to get an animal to respawn is so complicated and harsh that it will never be replicated in a normal survival game. However, there's always the one or two glitches that rarely happen that will cause animals to respawn differently, but they shouldn't be included in the statistics of spawning.
It doesn't matter what biome the chunk is, as long as it's not desert or ocean. I've noticed grasslands have the most spawns. The "perfectly sculpted chunk" is, from bedrock to skylimit, a 16x16 grass platform every 3 layers, lit by sunlight. Even then, I've done this x8 and only had two cows spawn. The chunk will never be reproduced in a normal survival gameplay, so it's not "rare" that it will happen, it's impossible. You need to make it manually. As for sheep, yes, they do not grow wool back in 1.8, they will always stay sheered.
People have found animals can respawn, myself included, it's just the conditions needed to get an animal to respawn is so complicated and harsh that it will never be replicated in a normal survival game. However, there's always the one or two glitches that rarely happen that will cause animals to respawn differently, but they shouldn't be included in the statistics of spawning.
I see, so the tower in the video you had is the "perfect" chunk. Thanks for clearing it up one more time. Wish I had seen this thread before I slaughtered everything near me on my new smp server. Luckily I caught myself so there are still animals nearby.
So in the meantime we're left with chickens for food, spiders for wool, and no answers about animal breeding til 1.9. Wheat farms are looking pretty good for food now too. So iron armor is also now more practical than leather..
On the basis that chickens can come from thrown eggs, I decided to make a chicken farm on my server. I had two chickens from eggs, but they disappeared. While it is possible that one of my friends (its a private server, I know everyone) killed them, I think it's unlikely. Is there a difference with normal chickens and egg spawned chickens? Are they persistent from eggs?
On the basis that chickens can come from thrown eggs, I decided to make a chicken farm on my server. I had two chickens from eggs, but they disappeared. While it is possible that one of my friends (its a private server, I know everyone) killed them, I think it's unlikely. Is there a difference with normal chickens and egg spawned chickens? Are they persistent from eggs?
Chickens are pretty good at escaping from fences. They also can push each other into solid blocks, killing each other! I have my chicken farm two blocks down with the top surrounded by fences and still I see occasional chickens around my town. I don't know if they are wandering in from somewhere else or escaping, but it seems like they are escaping! But once you get enough chickens/eggs it is not as much of a big deal.
Chickens are pretty good at escaping from fences. They also can push each other into solid blocks, killing each other! I have my chicken farm two blocks down with the top surrounded by fences and still I see occasional chickens around my town. I don't know if they are wandering in from somewhere else or escaping, but it seems like they are escaping! But once you get enough chickens/eggs it is not as much of a big deal.
So I haven't read through the whole thread however I didn't see much mention about squid.
They seem to be both persistent and non persistent when it comes to spawns. I've seen the same squid stuck in a river for several game weeks and other times I see a new school of squid every time I pass a lake.
While I've done no tests of my own could it be that squid are taking spawn priority over other animals?
I've made sure to explore very little of my land (so I don't have a ton of chunks loaded) yet I do from time to time see the occasional "new" animal. Sheep in particular. Before I knew spawning was buggered I did my usual of sheering and killing all sheep around me which left me with no sheep very quickly. However every few Minecraft days I happen upon one or two "new" sheep.
This usually corresponds with a recent squid killing marathon.
Could it be that since squid spawn conditions are so much easier to meet they are more easily selected for spawning over other critters?
So I haven't read through the whole thread however I didn't see much mention about squid.
They seem to be both persistent and non persistent when it comes to spawns. I've seen the same squid stuck in a river for several game weeks and other times I see a new school of squid every time I pass a lake.
While I've done no tests of my own could it be that squid are taking spawn priority over other animals?
I've made sure to explore very little of my land (so I don't have a ton of chunks loaded) yet I do from time to time see the occasional "new" animal. Sheep in particular. Before I knew spawning was buggered I did my usual of sheering and killing all sheep around me which left me with no sheep very quickly. However every few Minecraft days I happen upon one or two "new" sheep.
This usually corresponds with a recent squid killing marathon.
Could it be that since squid spawn conditions are so much easier to meet they are more easily selected for spawning over other critters?
Squid aren't persistent. They're part of a different category in the core game files (Considered a water mob and not a regular creature), and isn't part of the persistency "test" of such that Mojang seems to have added to the game. They will respawn and despawn. The reason you're seeing new sheep is most likely being they're wandering over from other chunks.
The reason you're seeing new sheep is most likely being they're wandering over from other chunks.
Quite likely, which is why I've stopped sheering them. Figured I'd throw the idea out there anyways.
So I've a simple question now... is this spawn rate something that is hard-coded or will modders be able to adjust it? As it stands mods like Mo'Creatures and other such mods will be rendered useless with these new patterns.
Yeah. Because their spawn chance is only in two biomes, and the highest percent being 16.66%, and since spawning is 400 times slower, you basically will have a horribly difficult time getting wolves. Can't wait to do the full math though.
This isn't even the only problem. Right now, I guess you'll have maybe 40 animals in a natural world around you that count towards the mob limit (you can see the number of chunks that are used for the count by pressing F3 under ServerChunkCache). So as you know, until you kill those mobs and set the number of animals in that area to under 17 or so, no new mobs will spawn. And even if you do that and are lucky enough to get a wolf spawn they will automatically despawn if the game attempts to spawn them more than 128m away from you (which used to be the case for all animals). And if you should be lucky again, you need to find it, before it despawns after time.
Quite likely, which is why I've stopped sheering them. Figured I'd throw the idea out there anyways.
So I've a simple question now... is this spawn rate something that is hard-coded or will modders be able to adjust it? As it stands mods like Mo'Creatures and other such mods will be rendered useless with these new patterns.
No, it's quite easy to revert the changes. Apart from the new on chunk generation spawning, all they did was adding three lines and change one.
This isn't even the only problem. Right now, I guess you'll have maybe 40 animals in a natural world around you that count towards the mob limit (you can see the number of chunks that are used for the count by pressing F3 under ServerChunkCache). So as you know, until you kill those mobs and set the number of animals in that area to under 17 or so, no new mobs will spawn. And even if you do that and are lucky enough to get a wolf spawn they will automatically despawn if the game attempts to spawn them more than 128m away from you (which used to be the case for all animals). And if you should be lucky again, you need to find it, before it despawns after time.
OK...I ran another test. For this test, I modded F3 (my own, not the above download) to show animal count by type.
Then I installed SPC to make use of the killall command.
Here is the test:
1. Create new world, random seed.
2. use /killall <MOBTYPE> to kill all of the animals (pig,cow,sheep,chicken,wolf)
3. Verify the animal count is zero.
3. Wait until the next spawn check (up to two minutes) while monitoring the F3 display for any change in animal count.
4. Use F3 to get a new animal count
After the spawner ran, I again had animals. Not many, but some. The final tally was 8 each of pig, sheep, and chicken, and 5 cows for a total of 29 animals across all loaded chunks. I did not get any wolves, but I wasn't in one of their biomes.
This is without any specially prepared chunks. Just a standard world with a random seed.
Also, note, that I did not move at all. No new chunks generated. These 29 mobs had to spawn in already loaded chunks.
So. Animals will spawn on normal worlds without some special preparation. The key to getting something to spawn is to get below the 16 mob threshold. Then you'll get some new critters. Of course with the spawner also running when a new chunk is generated, actually getting below that threshold is easier said than done until your world is large enough....
I think I might fiddle around with the spawn code to make per-type threshold instead of a global threshold. So that if there is fewer than # (some number tbd) of a particular animal, then new animals of that type will spawn.
OK...I ran another test. For this test, I modded F3 (my own, not the above download) to show animal count by type.
Then I installed SPC to make use of the killall command.
Here is the test:
1. Create new world, random seed.
2. use /killall <MOBTYPE> to kill all of the animals (pig,cow,sheep,chicken,wolf)
3. Verify the animal count is zero.
3. Wait until the next spawn check (up to two minutes) while monitoring the F3 display for any change in animal count.
4. Use F3 to get a new animal count
After the spawner ran, I again had animals. Not many, but some. The final tally was 8 each of pig, sheep, and chicken, and 5 cows for a total of 29 animals across all loaded chunks. I did not get any wolves, but I wasn't in one of their biomes.
This is without any specially prepared chunks. Just a standard world with a random seed.
Also, note, that I did not move at all. No new chunks generated. These 29 mobs had to spawn in already loaded chunks.
So. Animals will spawn on normal worlds without some special preparation. The key to getting something to spawn is to get below the 16 mob threshold. Then you'll get some new critters. Of course with the spawner also running when a new chunk is generated, actually getting below that threshold is easier said than done until your world is large enough....
I think I might fiddle around with the spawn code to make per-type threshold instead of a global threshold. So that if there is fewer than # (some number tbd) of a particular animal, then new animals of that type will spawn.
Doesn't the mob counter also count aggressive mobs? I'll test this right now and see if I can see animals spawning.
@SuperJerboa - Got someway we can talk realtime? There's a problems I'm having with testing (For instance, mobs are spawning way over the mob cap), and I'd like to get your test parameters.
It doesn't matter what biome the chunk is, as long as it's not desert or ocean. I've noticed grasslands have the most spawns. The "perfectly sculpted chunk" is, from bedrock to skylimit, a 16x16 grass platform every 3 layers, lit by sunlight. Even then, I've done this x8 and only had two cows spawn. The chunk will never be reproduced in a normal survival gameplay, so it's not "rare" that it will happen, it's impossible. You need to make it manually. As for sheep, yes, they do not grow wool back in 1.8, they will always stay sheered.
People have found animals can respawn, myself included, it's just the conditions needed to get an animal to respawn is so complicated and harsh that it will never be replicated in a normal survival game. However, there's always the one or two glitches that rarely happen that will cause animals to respawn differently, but they shouldn't be included in the statistics of spawning.
Really, should have left the friggen spawning alone if he wasn't going to add in breeding at the exact same time.
*sigh*
I see, so the tower in the video you had is the "perfect" chunk. Thanks for clearing it up one more time. Wish I had seen this thread before I slaughtered everything near me on my new smp server. Luckily I caught myself so there are still animals nearby.
So in the meantime we're left with chickens for food, spiders for wool, and no answers about animal breeding til 1.9. Wheat farms are looking pretty good for food now too. So iron armor is also now more practical than leather..
Chickens are pretty good at escaping from fences. They also can push each other into solid blocks, killing each other! I have my chicken farm two blocks down with the top surrounded by fences and still I see occasional chickens around my town. I don't know if they are wandering in from somewhere else or escaping, but it seems like they are escaping! But once you get enough chickens/eggs it is not as much of a big deal.
Ohh, dammit chickens, stop breaking physics!
They seem to be both persistent and non persistent when it comes to spawns. I've seen the same squid stuck in a river for several game weeks and other times I see a new school of squid every time I pass a lake.
While I've done no tests of my own could it be that squid are taking spawn priority over other animals?
I've made sure to explore very little of my land (so I don't have a ton of chunks loaded) yet I do from time to time see the occasional "new" animal. Sheep in particular. Before I knew spawning was buggered I did my usual of sheering and killing all sheep around me which left me with no sheep very quickly. However every few Minecraft days I happen upon one or two "new" sheep.
This usually corresponds with a recent squid killing marathon.
Could it be that since squid spawn conditions are so much easier to meet they are more easily selected for spawning over other critters?
Squid aren't persistent. They're part of a different category in the core game files (Considered a water mob and not a regular creature), and isn't part of the persistency "test" of such that Mojang seems to have added to the game. They will respawn and despawn. The reason you're seeing new sheep is most likely being they're wandering over from other chunks.
Quite likely, which is why I've stopped sheering them. Figured I'd throw the idea out there anyways.
So I've a simple question now... is this spawn rate something that is hard-coded or will modders be able to adjust it? As it stands mods like Mo'Creatures and other such mods will be rendered useless with these new patterns.
This isn't even the only problem. Right now, I guess you'll have maybe 40 animals in a natural world around you that count towards the mob limit (you can see the number of chunks that are used for the count by pressing F3 under ServerChunkCache). So as you know, until you kill those mobs and set the number of animals in that area to under 17 or so, no new mobs will spawn. And even if you do that and are lucky enough to get a wolf spawn they will automatically despawn if the game attempts to spawn them more than 128m away from you (which used to be the case for all animals). And if you should be lucky again, you need to find it, before it despawns after time.
Btw, here's a F3 mod that shows the current animal count and the positions of animals:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2171901/AnimalWatch.zip
No, it's quite easy to revert the changes. Apart from the new on chunk generation spawning, all they did was adding three lines and change one.
Not to mention modders are able to adjust basically ever aspect of the game.
Nice mod, played around with it a bit. Going to add it to the next update.
Then I installed SPC to make use of the killall command.
Here is the test:
1. Create new world, random seed.
2. use /killall <MOBTYPE> to kill all of the animals (pig,cow,sheep,chicken,wolf)
3. Verify the animal count is zero.
3. Wait until the next spawn check (up to two minutes) while monitoring the F3 display for any change in animal count.
4. Use F3 to get a new animal count
After the spawner ran, I again had animals. Not many, but some. The final tally was 8 each of pig, sheep, and chicken, and 5 cows for a total of 29 animals across all loaded chunks. I did not get any wolves, but I wasn't in one of their biomes.
This is without any specially prepared chunks. Just a standard world with a random seed.
Also, note, that I did not move at all. No new chunks generated. These 29 mobs had to spawn in already loaded chunks.
So. Animals will spawn on normal worlds without some special preparation. The key to getting something to spawn is to get below the 16 mob threshold. Then you'll get some new critters. Of course with the spawner also running when a new chunk is generated, actually getting below that threshold is easier said than done until your world is large enough....
I think I might fiddle around with the spawn code to make per-type threshold instead of a global threshold. So that if there is fewer than # (some number tbd) of a particular animal, then new animals of that type will spawn.
Doesn't the mob counter also count aggressive mobs? I'll test this right now and see if I can see animals spawning.
Chicken from egg: 1/8
Egg from chicken: Once every 7 minutes