been days on my map since I've seen a single pig cow or chicken. I have since just learned to run the game until I die of starvation and forget about food. No shrooms, no melons, I found two seeds yesterday so I may be able to start farming wheat for food. I dunno. I'm trying to find a pirated copy of 1.7.3 so I can go back to that until Mojang fixes their code. They seemed to add more features people hate in this update than people like so I imagine the game may be starting to die out soon.
This was very well done, and I appreciate your hard work to help us better understand the new animal spawning system. I'll be watching this for sure as we look into new theories for the system!
been days on my map since I've seen a single pig cow or chicken. I have since just learned to run the game until I die of starvation and forget about food. No shrooms, no melons, I found two seeds yesterday so I may be able to start farming wheat for food. I dunno. I'm trying to find a pirated copy of 1.7.3 so I can go back to that until Mojang fixes their code. They seemed to add more features people hate in this update than people like so I imagine the game may be starting to die out soon.
The animals respawning is definitely mucked up, but all other food is very plentiful; seeds are easily found by destroying tall grass, mushrooms are friggin everywhere, and melons are also pretty easy to find.
You're about as far off as you could be with your analysis of the game.
I'm gonna have to dispute some of your findings. Some of these weren't very well-tested. The animals in the ocean and the desert could have wandered there, as animals have wandered far from their initial spawn point for me into the ocean and desert.
Secondly, animals have a small chance to spawn every 400th tick.
This video does a nice job of disproving some of your tests.
Any myths besides that have been disproven. The final findings, with proof, is that animals are (99.99%, there is always margin for glitches or oddities causing irregular code processing in Java) persistent and will not respawn in the chunk they are killed from. However, from the first video, it may be seen that killing many animals in certain chunks will cause many more animals to spawn in other chunks, however it is untested fully and should not be seen as fact.[/center]
Hope you all enjoyed the read, please contribute your findings and counterarguments below. I will check this thread regularly, and am looking forward to more testing :smile.gif:!
You certainly put a fair deal of effort into your experiment, but there are a lot of controls you are missing, and the data set is farfar too small to be anywhere near 90% accurate let alone "99.9%" conclusive.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
More Ocean Life: Kelp, Coral, Crabs and Jellyfish; Coconut Palm trees for beaches and islands. Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
I really don't understand why the animal breeding couldn't be added with 1.8(Or have the animals respawning be left in for the time being until 1.9). It kinda sucks that now animals will be very difficult to find.
I really don't understand why the animal breeding couldn't be added with 1.8(Or have the animals respawning be left in for the time being until 1.9). It kinda sucks that now animals will be very difficult to find.
Also, what about squid?
from what I understand squid have not been changed, they spawn the old way
been days on my map since I've seen a single pig cow or chicken. I have since just learned to run the game until I die of starvation and forget about food. No shrooms, no melons, I found two seeds yesterday so I may be able to start farming wheat for food. I dunno. I'm trying to find a pirated copy of 1.7.3 so I can go back to that until Mojang fixes their code. They seemed to add more features people hate in this update than people like so I imagine the game may be starting to die out soon.
Like any other game still in dev and beta'ing publicly, suggestions need to be made to change aspects of the game that the majority of users dislike.
This was very well done, and I appreciate your hard work to help us better understand the new animal spawning system. I'll be watching this for sure as we look into new theories for the system!
Thank you, and everyone else that has made a post like this, for your comments :smile.gif:
I'm gonna have to dispute some of your findings. Some of these weren't very well-tested. The animals in the ocean and the desert could have wandered there, as animals have wandered far from their initial spawn point for me into the ocean and desert.
Secondly, animals have a small chance to spawn every 400th tick.
This video does a nice job of disproving some of your tests.
If you're discussing biome spawning, I put right on the front page that the animals did wander into the ocean, as there is no passive mobs spawning in the ocean besides squid. As for the desert, my parameters to claim they spawned there was for me to actually see them spawn in the biome on a newly loaded chunk. They did not wander there.
As for your video, I'll be reviewing it right now. I'm looking forward very much to this future counterargument.
Phar - you seem to have tested extremes (in the chunk itself, and when the chunk is loaded). Perhaps some mid-distance tests may reveal more about passive mob spawning?
Also, Pontifex did a lot of testing with large towers - perhaps surface area affects passive mob spawning?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When all is said and done, Will you have said more than you have done?
I'm gonna have to dispute some of your findings. Some of these weren't very well-tested. The animals in the ocean and the desert could have wandered there, as animals have wandered far from their initial spawn point for me into the ocean and desert.
Secondly, animals have a small chance to spawn every 400th tick.
This video does a nice job of disproving some of your tests.
I'm going to point out a few problems in the video. First off, there isn't a single area in the map that animals can spawn, initially. That's due to the fact that everything is a half-slab. Usually this would affect the theory that creating new chunks will cause a surge of animal spawning, which I originally noticed, however he keeps the chunk loaded. Or so he says. There's images cut out, no continued and continued video timelapsed. That, in my opinion, makes his theories probable, but not 100% sure. However, I will create the same map he did, using a different map, but the same setup.
His conclusions (That make sense and have any proof):
- Mobs only spawn if you remain stationary. (Will test)
- Mobs will spawn in a new chunk (No ****.)
- Mobs need to have direct sunlight to spawn mobs. (Will test)
- Mobs stay in chunks even after unloaded (No **** again.)
His theories:
- Mobs spawn only on certain biomes (No proof, I've disproved it).
- Mobs only attempt to spawn once every 20 seconds (I can believe this, will not attempt to disprove)
I like his video, but I dislike his proof. However, I will run the same tests for the same amount of time, even using a larger area. I'll report back in a few hours with the videos.
Phar - you seem to have tested extremes (in the chunk itself, and when the chunk is loaded). Perhaps some mid-distance tests may reveal more about passive mob spawning?
Also, Pontifex did a lot of testing with large towers - perhaps surface area affects passive mob spawning?
Perhaps height does affect it, however surface "area" wouldn't. He uses single chunks every 3 blocks high. I will test his theories though.
"'Circumstantial evidence is a very tricky thing,' answered Holmes thoughtfully; 'it may seem to point very straight to one thing, but if you shift your point of view a little, you may find it pointing in an equally uncompromising manner to something entirely different' . . . 'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact.'" --Sherlock Holmes, "The Boscombe Valley Mystery"
"We approached the case, you remember, with an absolutely blank mind, which is always an advantage. We had formed no theories. We were simply there to observe and to draw inferences from our observations." --Sherlock Holmes, "The Adventure of The Cardboard Box"
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." --Sherlock Holmes, "A Scandal in Bohemia"
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When all is said and done, Will you have said more than you have done?
"'Circumstantial evidence is a very tricky thing,' answered Holmes thoughtfully; 'it may seem to point very straight to one thing, but if you shift your point of view a little, you may find it pointing in an equally uncompromising manner to something entirely different' . . . 'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact.'" --Sherlock Holmes, "The Boscombe Valley Mystery"
"We approached the case, you remember, with an absolutely blank mind, which is always an advantage. We had formed no theories. We were simply there to observe and to draw inferences from our observations." --Sherlock Holmes, "The Adventure of The Cardboard Box"
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." --Sherlock Holmes, "A Scandal in Bohemia"
At the very least tell us your opinion or side of the argument. You're not contributing to the thread, so thus you're not helping us reach a scientific conclusion.
"'Circumstantial evidence is a very tricky thing,' answered Holmes thoughtfully; 'it may seem to point very straight to one thing, but if you shift your point of view a little, you may find it pointing in an equally uncompromising manner to something entirely different' . . . 'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact.'" --Sherlock Holmes, "The Boscombe Valley Mystery"
"We approached the case, you remember, with an absolutely blank mind, which is always an advantage. We had formed no theories. We were simply there to observe and to draw inferences from our observations." --Sherlock Holmes, "The Adventure of The Cardboard Box"
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." --Sherlock Holmes, "A Scandal in Bohemia"
You're right. I'm going into the second testing phase without an open mind, and I'm being biased to contradicting data because of the time I've spent and what I've found, in relation. Going to take a few minutes and clear my head, and approach my testing again like I've just started.
At the very least tell us your opinion or side of the argument.
There is no need to create an argument. We have right now two people with different setups, achieving different results. The task before them is to figure out how their setups differ, and how those differences are affecting their results. Perhps then they will shed light on this mystery, and figure out how mob spawning works, as well as how to optimize it.
Yes, I am here merely as an observer. However, I read nowhere that observing is contrary to the rules of this forum. It may affect how I play Minecraft in the near future.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When all is said and done, Will you have said more than you have done?
I'm going to point out a few problems in the video. First off, there isn't a single area in the map that animals can spawn, initially. That's due to the fact that everything is a half-slab. Usually this would affect the theory that creating new chunks will cause a surge of animal spawning, which I originally noticed, however he keeps the chunk loaded. Or so he says. There's images cut out, no continued and continued video timelapsed. That, in my opinion, makes his theories probable, but not 100% sure. However, I will create the same map he did, using a different map, but the same setup.
His conclusions (That make sense and have any proof):
- Mobs only spawn if you remain stationary. (Will test)
- Mobs will spawn in a new chunk (No ****.)
- Mobs need to have direct sunlight to spawn mobs. (Will test)
- Mobs stay in chunks even after unloaded (No **** again.)
His theories:
- Mobs spawn only on certain biomes (No proof, I've disproved it).
- Mobs only attempt to spawn once every 20 seconds (I can believe this, will not attempt to disprove)
I like his video, but I dislike his proof. However, I will run the same tests for the same amount of time, even using a larger area. I'll report back in a few hours with the videos.
Perhaps height does affect it, however surface "area" wouldn't. He uses single chunks every 3 blocks high. I will test his theories though.
Far, again, awesome job on the research. I do want to point out one thing though, hostile mobs cannot spawn on half-slabs (unless they're doubled up in an even number)... however... in my MCEdit tests for other things (namely the enderman tests), passive/friendly mobs have been spawning on half-slabs, at various heights (even when they are in odd numbers, e.g. 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9 half-slabs).
This leads me to believe (but is by no means conclusive) that the theory that animals are placed on ANY block by detecting the player's current ceiling limit and spawning down to the highest block, is true.
I actually just spent an hour or so talking to the creator of the video, getting ideas on how he made his schematics and stuff, saw his new spawner and actually witnessed an animal spawning. However, there is a variable that he pointed out that might make or break this myth, so I'll be testing for a couple hours before I post any conclusive proof.
OK. I've spent a little time with the decompiled code, and here is what I believe is happening (most of this is already well known):
1. Animals initially spawn with chunk creation
2. Animal type is a weighted random value, that can be modified based on biomes
3. No animals spawn in Ocean, River, or Desert biomes
4. Wolves only spawn in Forest biomes. (And Taiga....)
4. Animals do not despawn. Squids do despawn.
Now for respawn:
1. Peaceful mobs will attempt to spawn every 400 world ticks
2. If there are fewer than 15(!!) Animals in the world (i.e. among all loaded chunks), then new animals will spawn. Squids aren't included in this count.
3. At first glance, it looks like the spawner tries to spawn a single animal in each chunk within 15 of the player's current position, but further than 24 blocks away from the player. (I'm not 100% sure about this part. It is a first-look impression)
4. These new animals are also random, but weighted by the biome they are in.
So if you have an animal farm of some kind, nothing will spawn anywhere near it. You also won't see new spawns in old chunks on a small world, since moving out to kill down to 15 animals will cause new chunks to generate, which will keep the loaded creature count above 15. The best bet to get new animals spawning is to go to a barren area with plenty of buffer around it.
And of course, this is all assuming I read the code correctly, and there aren't any bugs that need squashed that I didn't bother to look for.
Hope this helps to shed some light on things that aren't really clear based on live testing.
(Edit: I should also make clear that this is for single player only. I haven't looked at multiplayer at all. Cheers!)
OK. I've spent a little time with the decompiled code, and here is what I believe is happening (most of this is already well known):
1. Animals initially spawn with chunk creation
2. Animal type is a weighted random value, that can be modified based on biomes
3. No animals spawn in Ocean, River, or Desert biomes
4. Wolves only spawn in Forest biomes. (And Taiga....)
4. Animals do not despawn. Squids do despawn.
Now for respawn:
1. Peaceful mobs will attempt to spawn every 400 world ticks
2. If there are fewer than 15(!!) Animals in the world (i.e. among all loaded chunks), then new animals will spawn. Squids aren't included in this count.
3. At first glance, it looks like the spawner tries to spawn a single animal in each chunk within 15 of the player's current position, but further than 24 blocks away from the player. (I'm not 100% sure about this part. It is a first-look impression)
4. These new animals are also random, but weighted by the biome they are in.
So if you have an animal farm of some kind, nothing will spawn anywhere near it. You also won't see new spawns in old chunks on a small world, since moving out to kill down to 15 animals will cause new chunks to generate, which will keep the loaded creature count above 15. The best bet to get new animals spawning is to go to a barren area with plenty of buffer around it.
And of course, this is all assuming I read the code correctly, and there aren't any bugs that need squashed that I didn't bother to look for.
Hope this helps to shed some light on things that aren't really clear based on live testing.
(Edit: I should also make clear that this is for single player only. I haven't looked at multiplayer at all. Cheers!)
I believe the Weighted Random Spawn is for mineshafts and ravines, but I've also said that animals look to be biome related. I disagree with your findings on the desert biome, as I've seen all animals spawn in it.
I also disagree that you can't make an animal farm, but I'll offer proof to all of this in an hour when my video is done uploading.
The animals respawning is definitely mucked up, but all other food is very plentiful; seeds are easily found by destroying tall grass, mushrooms are friggin everywhere, and melons are also pretty easy to find.
You're about as far off as you could be with your analysis of the game.
Secondly, animals have a small chance to spawn every 400th tick.
This video does a nice job of disproving some of your tests.
You certainly put a fair deal of effort into your experiment, but there are a lot of controls you are missing, and the data set is far far too small to be anywhere near 90% accurate let alone "99.9%" conclusive.
Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
Also, what about squid?
from what I understand squid have not been changed, they spawn the old way
Please link me to a discussion that has offered multiple proofs to back the theories discussed herein.
Like any other game still in dev and beta'ing publicly, suggestions need to be made to change aspects of the game that the majority of users dislike.
Thank you, and everyone else that has made a post like this, for your comments :smile.gif:
If you're discussing biome spawning, I put right on the front page that the animals did wander into the ocean, as there is no passive mobs spawning in the ocean besides squid. As for the desert, my parameters to claim they spawned there was for me to actually see them spawn in the biome on a newly loaded chunk. They did not wander there.
As for your video, I'll be reviewing it right now. I'm looking forward very much to this future counterargument.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumPhar - you seem to have tested extremes (in the chunk itself, and when the chunk is loaded). Perhaps some mid-distance tests may reveal more about passive mob spawning?
Also, Pontifex did a lot of testing with large towers - perhaps surface area affects passive mob spawning?
I'm going to point out a few problems in the video. First off, there isn't a single area in the map that animals can spawn, initially. That's due to the fact that everything is a half-slab. Usually this would affect the theory that creating new chunks will cause a surge of animal spawning, which I originally noticed, however he keeps the chunk loaded. Or so he says. There's images cut out, no continued and continued video timelapsed. That, in my opinion, makes his theories probable, but not 100% sure. However, I will create the same map he did, using a different map, but the same setup.
His conclusions (That make sense and have any proof):
- Mobs only spawn if you remain stationary. (Will test)
- Mobs will spawn in a new chunk (No ****.)
- Mobs need to have direct sunlight to spawn mobs. (Will test)
- Mobs stay in chunks even after unloaded (No **** again.)
His theories:
- Mobs spawn only on certain biomes (No proof, I've disproved it).
- Mobs only attempt to spawn once every 20 seconds (I can believe this, will not attempt to disprove)
I like his video, but I dislike his proof. However, I will run the same tests for the same amount of time, even using a larger area. I'll report back in a few hours with the videos.
Perhaps height does affect it, however surface "area" wouldn't. He uses single chunks every 3 blocks high. I will test his theories though.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse Premium"We approached the case, you remember, with an absolutely blank mind, which is always an advantage. We had formed no theories. We were simply there to observe and to draw inferences from our observations." --Sherlock Holmes, "The Adventure of The Cardboard Box"
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." --Sherlock Holmes, "A Scandal in Bohemia"
At the very least tell us your opinion or side of the argument. You're not contributing to the thread, so thus you're not helping us reach a scientific conclusion.
So... Please contribute or gtfo?
You're right. I'm going into the second testing phase without an open mind, and I'm being biased to contradicting data because of the time I've spent and what I've found, in relation. Going to take a few minutes and clear my head, and approach my testing again like I've just started.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumThere is no need to create an argument. We have right now two people with different setups, achieving different results. The task before them is to figure out how their setups differ, and how those differences are affecting their results. Perhps then they will shed light on this mystery, and figure out how mob spawning works, as well as how to optimize it.
Yes, I am here merely as an observer. However, I read nowhere that observing is contrary to the rules of this forum. It may affect how I play Minecraft in the near future.
Far, again, awesome job on the research. I do want to point out one thing though, hostile mobs cannot spawn on half-slabs (unless they're doubled up in an even number)... however... in my MCEdit tests for other things (namely the enderman tests), passive/friendly mobs have been spawning on half-slabs, at various heights (even when they are in odd numbers, e.g. 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9 half-slabs).
This leads me to believe (but is by no means conclusive) that the theory that animals are placed on ANY block by detecting the player's current ceiling limit and spawning down to the highest block, is true.
YouTube | Google+ | Twitter
1. Animals initially spawn with chunk creation
2. Animal type is a weighted random value, that can be modified based on biomes
3. No animals spawn in Ocean, River, or Desert biomes
4. Wolves only spawn in Forest biomes. (And Taiga....)
4. Animals do not despawn. Squids do despawn.
Now for respawn:
1. Peaceful mobs will attempt to spawn every 400 world ticks
2. If there are fewer than 15(!!) Animals in the world (i.e. among all loaded chunks), then new animals will spawn. Squids aren't included in this count.
3. At first glance, it looks like the spawner tries to spawn a single animal in each chunk within 15 of the player's current position, but further than 24 blocks away from the player. (I'm not 100% sure about this part. It is a first-look impression)
4. These new animals are also random, but weighted by the biome they are in.
So if you have an animal farm of some kind, nothing will spawn anywhere near it. You also won't see new spawns in old chunks on a small world, since moving out to kill down to 15 animals will cause new chunks to generate, which will keep the loaded creature count above 15. The best bet to get new animals spawning is to go to a barren area with plenty of buffer around it.
And of course, this is all assuming I read the code correctly, and there aren't any bugs that need squashed that I didn't bother to look for.
Hope this helps to shed some light on things that aren't really clear based on live testing.
(Edit: I should also make clear that this is for single player only. I haven't looked at multiplayer at all. Cheers!)
I believe the Weighted Random Spawn is for mineshafts and ravines, but I've also said that animals look to be biome related. I disagree with your findings on the desert biome, as I've seen all animals spawn in it.
I also disagree that you can't make an animal farm, but I'll offer proof to all of this in an hour when my video is done uploading.