Ok this is very interesting. I'm a little confused though. Basically what I want to know is, if I want animals to repopulate areas close to spawn (in my server we wiped them out :S) do I need to just wait days on end, or do I go around killing animals in neighbouring regions?
Well.. I give a big "F U" to Notch for writing lazy code like no spawning at all in desert/ocean biomes. Seriously. That's lazy. If a player "terraforms" one of those to sustain animal life, they should spawn there. Period. Just like they would have before.
Maybe I can find a map editor to change biome type...
You could always do what I did and herd the mobs from another biome - I actually pushed two pigs, two cows and two sheep all the way over a vast ocean to my little island! :B
...
2. If there are fewer than 15(!!) Animals in the world (i.e. among all loaded chunks), then new animals will spawn. Squids aren't included in this count.
3. At first glance, it looks like the spawner tries to spawn a single animal in each chunk within 15 of the player's current position, but further than 24 blocks away from the player. (I'm not 100% sure about this part. It is a first-look impression)
...
So if you have an animal farm of some kind, nothing will spawn anywhere near it. You also won't see new spawns in old chunks on a small world, since moving out to kill down to 15 animals will cause new chunks to generate, which will keep the loaded creature count above 15.
...
I anticipated issues like this when I built my ranch. All animal pens are 2+ chunks into the ocean, under the ocean floor. With a tidily pruned forest opposite the ranch the other side of my keep and orchard.
I'd prefer to live on a tropical island, but i didn't feel like pushing a dozens of animals half a kilometer through the ocean.
One question I've thought of now ... how much information does an editor relocate if a person transplants chunks? Could I move a 3x3 set of chunks of forest biome into the middle of the ocean? Or does the biome data rely on the seed post-generation? Could I transport a tightly packed herd of animals with an editor? Or do only the inanimate blocks get moved?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
More Ocean Life: Kelp, Coral, Crabs and Jellyfish; Coconut Palm trees for beaches and islands. Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
Right now most people are wrestling animals into fenced / walled areas that keep them from running away. I've found that it is easier to push animals over long distances if you have a level surface to move them across, that includes the surface of an ocean or river (its actually easiest through water). Without water you might want to consider a canal system to push them through (2-3 wide, 2-3 deep).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
More Ocean Life: Kelp, Coral, Crabs and Jellyfish; Coconut Palm trees for beaches and islands. Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
Ok this is very interesting. I'm a little confused though. Basically what I want to know is, if I want animals to repopulate areas close to spawn (in my server we wiped them out :S) do I need to just wait days on end, or do I go around killing animals in neighbouring regions?
Well I wouldn't take the "loading new chunks from empty neighboring chunks causes more to spawn" as true at all, as it's hard to test and hasn't been tested enough. What you need to do to get animals to spawn is have a chunk (Or more, more the better) that is optimized to have as many spawning possibilities as possible. We're talking from bedrock to sky limit, many different layers of sunlit grass. Even then, you will probably get an animal to spawn, but it will take so long and use so many resources it won't be worth it.
As you can see in the regular survival testing (Original thread), even after 56 days not a single animal had spawned. In the heaviest of circumstances test (9/18 update), I did manage to get 2 animals to spawn.
One question I've thought of now ... how much information does an editor relocate if a person transplants chunks? Could I move a 3x3 set of chunks of forest biome into the middle of the ocean? Or does the biome data rely on the seed post-generation? Could I transport a tightly packed herd of animals with an editor? Or do only the inanimate blocks get moved?
I'll test that right now with the new SinglePlayerCommands and MCEdit. Give me 5 minutes, as I just woke up.
EDIT: No, doesn't look like it moves biomes. It should though, there has to be a way.
Will there be an easier way to move animals in the future? I hope so. That's a question for a different topic though.
It's a shame that you have to go through such a crazy endeavor to get animals to respawn. It seems extremely unlikely that my starting area will ever get animals unless I do something to surrounding areas.
Will there be an easier way to move animals in the future? I hope so. That's a question for a different topic though.
It's a shame that you have to go through such a crazy endeavor to get animals to respawn. It seems extremely unlikely that my starting area will ever get animals unless I do something to surrounding areas.
How are you moving animals? I find by minecart is easy as hell, you can move them so far away.
I'm honestly a little confused over your findings. I think a summary is much needed, although it seems like we all still trying to figure out how these new mobs work.
On our SMP server, we decided to build our base in a swamp biome. We have never seen a passive mob spawn in the swamp. It's a bit annoying, as we have to travel if we want pork or something. Also, one of our players depopulated the wool from the sheep. As I explore, I tend to see these sheared sheep.
So, you're telling me that I can't really expect mobs to spawn nearby, and I'm stuck with those sheep? Even if I kill them, they won't respawn back?
I've also noticed that the animals tend to get stuck in pits and other areas. As days past, more and more are found stuck in certain locations. Honestly, this is a horrible idea and I'd prefer the old algorithm back.
What about making a chicken shack - is it possible and is it a good idea?
so if animals are bound to chunks? are their locations saved? if I cage an animal will it stay in the cage even if I reload?
They're not actually "bound" to the chunk. When you load a chunk, the game will check if certain spawning procedures are able to be used, and will spawn animals based on that. If you move the animal away from that chunk and, for instance, cage it, then reloaded the game or the chunk (By either logging out/in to the world or going far enough away to unload the chunk) the animal will stay where you put it.
I'm honestly a little confused over your findings. I think a summary is much needed, although it seems like we all still trying to figure out how these new mobs work.
On our SMP server, we decided to build our base in a swamp biome. We have never seen a passive mob spawn in the swamp. It's a bit annoying, as we have to travel if we want pork or something. Also, one of our players depopulated the wool from the sheep. As I explore, I tend to see these sheared sheep.
So, you're telling me that I can't really expect mobs to spawn nearby, and I'm stuck with those sheep? Even if I kill them, they won't respawn back?
I've also noticed that the animals tend to get stuck in pits and other areas. As days past, more and more are found stuck in certain locations. Honestly, this is a horrible idea and I'd prefer the old algorithm back.
What about making a chicken shack - is it possible and is it a good idea?
Alright, a summary: Animals do still respawn, but you're unlikely to get a respawning animal within a normal game of survival. It takes a perfectly sculpted chunk, or group of chunks, designed to maximize the potential to spawn animals. This is unlikely to happen without purposely doing so, and is not replicated within normal run-of-the-mill gameplay.
Yes, you're stuck with those sheep. If you kill them, they will not respawn back. You'll have to generate new chunks to run the spawning algorithm and get new animals. Wool also does not grow back.
Because of animal persistency, more and more animals are traveling and falling into areas where they can't get up. This would happen with the old algorithm as well, but animals would despawn and wouldn't become a problem. Now it has become a problem because they stay there.
Building a chicken shack is a great idea, but be sure they're in water that is at least 1 block high, and they're caged with something besides fence. If they're not in water, when you put too many chickens in a small area they will kill each other by suffication in the side blocks. If you block them up with fence, it's been shown that animals can glitch through fence blocks when the chunk is unloaded and loaded again.
I've found that in existing terrain (that which was generated prioor to 1.8), animals are somewhat rare. I may be lucky to see 3 or 4 in a several chunk area.
But in going to a newly generated area, there seem to be whole lot of them, which calls into question the claim that there would be less of them in 1.8.
In fact it was an animal populatioon explosion I encountered in some of the new terrain, more than there were sometimes in 1.7.3.
I've found that in existing terrain (that which was generated prioor to 1.8), animals are somewhat rare. I may be lucky to see 3 or 4 in a several chunk area.
But in going to a newly generated area, there seem to be whole lot of them, which calls into question the claim that there would be less of them in 1.8.
In fact it was an animal populatioon explosion I encountered in some of the new terrain, more than there were sometimes in 1.7.3.
Converted worlds from 1.7 to 1.8 seem to have different spawning properties. Most of the worlds that have the glitch where hundreds of a single animal spawn is from a converted world. It needs to be tested, but I haven't the time right now.
You could always do what I did and herd the mobs from another biome - I actually pushed two pigs, two cows and two sheep all the way over a vast ocean to my little island! :B
I anticipated issues like this when I built my ranch. All animal pens are 2+ chunks into the ocean, under the ocean floor. With a tidily pruned forest opposite the ranch the other side of my keep and orchard.
I'd prefer to live on a tropical island, but i didn't feel like pushing a dozens of animals half a kilometer through the ocean.
One question I've thought of now ... how much information does an editor relocate if a person transplants chunks? Could I move a 3x3 set of chunks of forest biome into the middle of the ocean? Or does the biome data rely on the seed post-generation? Could I transport a tightly packed herd of animals with an editor? Or do only the inanimate blocks get moved?
Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
Right now most people are wrestling animals into fenced / walled areas that keep them from running away. I've found that it is easier to push animals over long distances if you have a level surface to move them across, that includes the surface of an ocean or river (its actually easiest through water). Without water you might want to consider a canal system to push them through (2-3 wide, 2-3 deep).
Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
Well I wouldn't take the "loading new chunks from empty neighboring chunks causes more to spawn" as true at all, as it's hard to test and hasn't been tested enough. What you need to do to get animals to spawn is have a chunk (Or more, more the better) that is optimized to have as many spawning possibilities as possible. We're talking from bedrock to sky limit, many different layers of sunlit grass. Even then, you will probably get an animal to spawn, but it will take so long and use so many resources it won't be worth it.
As you can see in the regular survival testing (Original thread), even after 56 days not a single animal had spawned. In the heaviest of circumstances test (9/18 update), I did manage to get 2 animals to spawn.
Make glass walls around them. Any block besides fence, I've confirmed animals can glitch through fence.
I'll test that right now with the new SinglePlayerCommands and MCEdit. Give me 5 minutes, as I just woke up.
EDIT: No, doesn't look like it moves biomes. It should though, there has to be a way.
Just something I thought I'd share.
Will there be an easier way to move animals in the future? I hope so. That's a question for a different topic though.
It's a shame that you have to go through such a crazy endeavor to get animals to respawn. It seems extremely unlikely that my starting area will ever get animals unless I do something to surrounding areas.
How are you moving animals? I find by minecart is easy as hell, you can move them so far away.
I was just walking around my world one time and that's pretty much how it went for me. And chickens.
A 3D isometric zombie apocalypse simulator.
On our SMP server, we decided to build our base in a swamp biome. We have never seen a passive mob spawn in the swamp. It's a bit annoying, as we have to travel if we want pork or something. Also, one of our players depopulated the wool from the sheep. As I explore, I tend to see these sheared sheep.
So, you're telling me that I can't really expect mobs to spawn nearby, and I'm stuck with those sheep? Even if I kill them, they won't respawn back?
I've also noticed that the animals tend to get stuck in pits and other areas. As days past, more and more are found stuck in certain locations. Honestly, this is a horrible idea and I'd prefer the old algorithm back.
What about making a chicken shack - is it possible and is it a good idea?
No. It'll keep them, but it won't cause more to respawn.
They're not actually "bound" to the chunk. When you load a chunk, the game will check if certain spawning procedures are able to be used, and will spawn animals based on that. If you move the animal away from that chunk and, for instance, cage it, then reloaded the game or the chunk (By either logging out/in to the world or going far enough away to unload the chunk) the animal will stay where you put it.
Alright, a summary: Animals do still respawn, but you're unlikely to get a respawning animal within a normal game of survival. It takes a perfectly sculpted chunk, or group of chunks, designed to maximize the potential to spawn animals. This is unlikely to happen without purposely doing so, and is not replicated within normal run-of-the-mill gameplay.
Yes, you're stuck with those sheep. If you kill them, they will not respawn back. You'll have to generate new chunks to run the spawning algorithm and get new animals. Wool also does not grow back.
Because of animal persistency, more and more animals are traveling and falling into areas where they can't get up. This would happen with the old algorithm as well, but animals would despawn and wouldn't become a problem. Now it has become a problem because they stay there.
Building a chicken shack is a great idea, but be sure they're in water that is at least 1 block high, and they're caged with something besides fence. If they're not in water, when you put too many chickens in a small area they will kill each other by suffication in the side blocks. If you block them up with fence, it's been shown that animals can glitch through fence blocks when the chunk is unloaded and loaded again.
But in going to a newly generated area, there seem to be whole lot of them, which calls into question the claim that there would be less of them in 1.8.
In fact it was an animal populatioon explosion I encountered in some of the new terrain, more than there were sometimes in 1.7.3.
Converted worlds from 1.7 to 1.8 seem to have different spawning properties. Most of the worlds that have the glitch where hundreds of a single animal spawn is from a converted world. It needs to be tested, but I haven't the time right now.
If you want there to be vast empty areas without population. No, only if you generate new chunks. Yes.
In answer to your questions.