I'm having trouble with the XNOR "E" and "F" designs on the Wiki page:
I've double- and triple-checked it, and I don't know what the problem is.
I can't make F work either, haven't tried E.
Whutchu talkin 'bout?
They both work fine. Remember that a grey block means a block on top of a wire or torch, that's critical.
Oh... I wasn't sure about the grey block, that's for pointing that out :tongue.gif:
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Quote from Esthin »
The creeper would SSS, but then stop as I held him in my arms. I would look down upon him, and his frown would turn into a beautiful smile.
He would look up at me.. A single tear would come from his eye, and he would say "Thank you".
Problem: If S is high (selecting A) then B comes through anyway, at least with the schematic you've posted. Your truth table does not seem to match.
What you've (mostly) built, by the way, is a 1-bit demultiplexer coupled with two AND gates.
heres a picture:
Also, more info on what a "demultiplexer" is, maybe a use for it?
EDIT: B is returned with S is ON, so B is supposed to come through when S is high, if you want A to come through when S is high, put the torch on the 2nd layer on the other side of the block.
Edit 2: this is a multiplexer according to wiki (most reliable source ever loljk)
What you have is indeed a multiplexer; I'm not sure what I was thinking.
A definitely comes through when S is high (the S block has power going to do it -> torch attached to S is off) according to your schematic. I really can't tell what's going on in the screenshot with your texture pack, but I can tell you that switches behave differently than simply wiring up a block, so if you're using them you need to include that in the schematic. Normally when people indicate inputs on a schematic the blocks are powered by wires or torches, not switches, and this will give you a different result because the switch in your screenshot is also powering the wire on the block next to the one it's attached to.
ah hah, thats why it works for me (the switch), my only problem is i dont know how these particular things work.. and by that i mean.. its still unclear to me exactly how torches distribute power. anyway thanks for the help!
I think a really cool thing to impliment into the game would be a way to create logic gates int he same style that we create tools. Naturally the only this we would really need or NOR and NAND gates since we can make pretty much any other logic gate with this logic gates.
So it would work something like this. Create a redstong work bench. just like a normal work bench then in the grid which would be bigger than 3x3 i would think. We could then create are gates.
= wire(input) = stone = redstone torch = output. = torch on top of stone
[] = blank space = redstone on top of stone
so in the redstone work bench we could make this.
[]
this would then create just one block that would do all that logic for us in a smaller place.
Basically a 1x1 block with inputs coming from the N and S while the output comes on the E.
I know the N and S and E things wouldnt be optimal in most cases but it could obviously be made in a different direction. I dont think this will ever happen but it would make this so much simpler. Basically Minecraft IC's
Also, more info on what a "demultiplexer" is, maybe a use for it?
An example of a use is the “output muxer” in my ALU design, which selects the operation to use. My current design is much bulkier (and slower) than yours.
I've been playing around trying to make a small D-Flip-Flop:
It uses the vertical RS NOR latch from this post. The very rightmost cell (with the ~Q output) can be moved to the asterisk (*) to make it shorter in that direction.
I'm unhappy with how much space the clock lines take up, but it does make it easy to connect a bunch in a line for a shift register. I'd like to find a way to bring in the left side by one more cell.
That's very nifty, I really need to learn the rules for vertical signal propagation. However, I don't think it helps here. You have to run the clock line one cell further out to the left with your design. It also introduces a 1 tick delay on the clock, which is minor but can make synchronizing more of a pain. I do appreciate you looking at it though.
P.S. May I ask what program you used to make that gif?
I've posted some D-latches with a smaller footprint over the past couple pages if you're interested in using those. They're taller than your design but take up less area on the ground.
This isn't exactly related to logic gates but this seems like the best place to ask.
Does anyone know if it's possible to make wide buses like the one above go around corners in a fixed number of ticks? The obvious way of going around a corner makes the lines toward the outer radius much longer than the inner lines, requiring inverters on some lines but not others. This means I need to add extra delay to the inner lines after the corner (which is undesirable) or find a way to fold it over (like a ribbon cable) in a compact space.
Any ideas?
Edit: Of course, right when I post about it I figure it out.
The upper torches transmit to lines above and the lower torches to lines below, then they're put back together.
Edit 2: I just realized this has the same effect as just sticking inverters on a regular corner unless the bus is more than 15 wide in which case you'd need to invert multiple times, but that's not really solved with this either. :/
Edit 3: Good news, the torches aren't necessary for this at all. Now all of the signals arrive at the same time and travel the same distance, so there's no need for staggered/multiple repeaters.
Does anyone know if it's possible to make wide buses like the one above go around corners in a fixed number of ticks? The obvious way of going around a corner makes the lines toward the outer radius much longer than the inner lines, requiring inverters on some lines but not others. This means I need to add extra delay to the inner lines after the corner (which is undesirable) or find a way to fold it over (like a ribbon cable) in a compact space.
Edit 3: Good news, the torches aren't necessary for this at all. Now all of the signals arrive at the same time and travel the same distance, so there's no need for staggered/multiple repeaters.
Is this image missing some layers? The wires seem to not be connected to anything.
I was wondering if someone could help me with a problem I've run into with my locking door.
I have an AND gate made with both inputs each coming from a single lever; one outside (open/close) and one inside (lock/unlock).
The output is connected to my door, but i run into my problem trying to hide the wiring connected to my door. When i put down blocks to complete the floor just inside the door it cuts off the connection to the output of the AND gate.
So, I was wondering if there is any way to make an AND gate with my same inputs that are working, but instead of the output wired straight to the door, if I could lead the output wire to the block underneath my door and transmit up using another red torch.
I've tried to do this and the door is powered by the torch, but the AND circuit doesn't seem to work the way it should this way.
Also, is it true that you can put glass over/on top of the wiring and it will not break the connection?
Not sure if this has been posted before, but you can have 5 inputs go to 1 output. When all 5 inputs are turned off, the output is turned on. This simply involves having an input to each side of the output block, and input below it (vertical redstone inverter).
To get the output to go somewhere, place another block on top of the output torch and a torch on the side of that block, and carry on.
I've also seen people do some pretty weird staircasing to get redstone to go vertically.. you can simply do this:
Use an odd number of torches if you want the output to be inverted, or an even number of torches if you want the input to equal the output.
I think I'm going to write my own redstone basics guide, because I can't seem to find one that teaches the very basics.
Hate to tell you this Trunks, but people in this thread have known about that sort of thing for quite a while now.
But go ahead and write a guide, as I do agree that there is no clear, well-defined guide on how the redstone interacts in each case.
Oh, and, sometimes the "weird stair-casing" is necessary, as it saves ticks.
That was more geared towards people around my level- not those who are doing ALUs and things of the such.
I just haven't been able to find a guide that starts with the basics. Most information about redstone starts at gates and skips the basics of how it works in the first place, which I aim to explain to the best of my ability.
* Redstone wires cannot go vertically, it can only go up one block at a time.
* Redstone wire cannot be powered further than 15 blocks, then to extend the range you need another torch...
* Torches are the most basic inverter, supply power to the block the torch resides on and the torch turns off...
* Blocks can be powered from any direction (from the top too IF there is a wire on top of the block) however, a block will not be powered from the side unless the input wire is at least 2 blocks long. (And advanced wiring can supply power with 1 block length wire, but that is beyond the basics)
* Wires cannot pass through blocks but power can. If you power a block from any side using a redstone torch and have wire on the other side that wire will get powered too.
There are many good videos showing how wire works. And experimenting yourself is the BEST way to learn the basics.
This thread covers stuff that goes beyond that experiment stage and goes into practical application and space usage (as of late anyways) plus odd stuff like ticks and even "half ticks".
EDIT: If someone really want's to learn redstone they should have a basic understanding of the ON/OFF state and inverters. This can be learned by googling "Boolean logic"
I have seen people that don't even understand this and they still want to make XOR operated doors.
How do you know all that? Experience, and practice. I didn't know all that when I started, and the guides I was reading on the forum did not clearly explain all of that. That's what I'm doing. I'm starting with the basics, such as how power is transmitted (on a basic level) and how to think logically (I walk the user through the creation of an AND gate in my guide). There "isn't any more to tell", you're right. I'm just compiling the basic information I've learned and putting it in an easy-to-use guide.
I agree that experimenting is the best way to learn, but it helps to understand how it works at least. I know that for myself, I was trying to deliver power from one torch to another torch on the same level as the redstone and couldn't figure out why nothing was happening. A simple paragraph or two on how power flows would have helped me there.
I can definitely rework my phrasing of flow. What I meant by flow is that power will flow from the input to the output, where I described what was input and what was output. I see how it can be misleading.
xgkkp: I don't think my tutorial is bad. But naturally, I'm inclined to think that. If you have anything you want to say about my guide, I ask you to reply to it so I can make any necessary modifications.
I have yet to see a tutorial that explains how blocks can get 'ON', rather than only torches and wires. It's pretty confusing at first, specially since you have no visual indication. Like a block can become powered by redstone from the sides or a torch below it, and it outputs to wire on top, or torches on top or at the sides. This is a very important piece that's missing in all rs tut's I've seen.
And IMO if you're guide is truly "The Absolute Beginner’s Guide to Everything Redstone";
[*:2xvukfnf]How to obtain redstone dust?
[*:2xvukfnf]How do I make a redstone torch?
[*:2xvukfnf]What kinds of input does redstone toggle?
[*:2xvukfnf]What kinds of output can redstone be used?
[*:2xvukfnf]I see images of redstone schemes, what do those symbols mean?
Your tutorial is very very brief imho..
Since I'm about to post in this topic anyways, I'll go ahead and reply here:
At the very beginning of my guide, I make the basic assumption that you've found redstone and you want to know what to do with it. It's not my aim to explain how to find redstone, rather, I want to explain how to use redstone. Play the game, mine some caves.. you'll find redstone.
I explain how to make a redstone torch, albeit briefly. Again, this is not the aim of my guide. A brief "stick on bottom, redstone dust on top" is all that is needed for that matter.
I don't know what you're asking in your next two questions. Redstone can be in one of two states- ON or OFF. Redstone wire is used for input to the vertical faces of a block. Redstone torches are used for inputs to the top and bottom of a block, when mounted one block above or one block below the receiving block, respectively. Redstone torches mounted on a block serve as output for that block. Again, redstone will ever only have one state of a possible two- it is either ON or OFF.
As far as "images of redstone schemes", you don't see any in my guide. Redstone schematics are outside the realm that I am discussing and lie solely with those guides and tutorials aimed at explaining (or implementing) those schematics and the programs that use them.
And to your first point: In my guide, I explicitly explain how blocks receive power and how outputs change.
To me, it seems like you skimmed over my guide and begun criticizing it. That's just my opinion, though. I'll include the post up until the last paragraph as a post in my guide, for other people's reference. And for future reference, talk about my guide in its thread, so we don't clutter up this thread with things not directly pertaining to the topic at hand.
Anyways, on to what I was coming here for in the first place..
Why is it that this setup has such an odd behavior? (Torch on top is not necessary)
If you build this in game, you'll see that one side will flash on and off a few times, then the other side, and then there will be a period where the torches and the wires will be OFF, after which it loops. I'm going to use this as the base for a beacon tower, but I don't know why it's demonstrating this behavior.
Oh... I wasn't sure about the grey block, that's for pointing that out :tongue.gif:
heres a picture:
Also, more info on what a "demultiplexer" is, maybe a use for it?
EDIT: B is returned with S is ON, so B is supposed to come through when S is high, if you want A to come through when S is high, put the torch on the 2nd layer on the other side of the block.
Edit 2: this is a multiplexer according to wiki (most reliable source ever loljk)
A definitely comes through when S is high (the S block has power going to do it -> torch attached to S is off) according to your schematic. I really can't tell what's going on in the screenshot with your texture pack, but I can tell you that switches behave differently than simply wiring up a block, so if you're using them you need to include that in the schematic. Normally when people indicate inputs on a schematic the blocks are powered by wires or torches, not switches, and this will give you a different result because the switch in your screenshot is also powering the wire on the block next to the one it's attached to.
So it would work something like this. Create a redstong work bench. just like a normal work bench then in the grid which would be bigger than 3x3 i would think. We could then create are gates.
[] = blank space
so in the redstone work bench we could make this.
[]
this would then create just one block that would do all that logic for us in a smaller place.
Basically a 1x1 block with inputs coming from the N and S while the output comes on the E.
I know the N and S and E things wouldnt be optimal in most cases but it could obviously be made in a different direction. I dont think this will ever happen but it would make this so much simpler. Basically Minecraft IC's
Anyone think this would be awesome.
An example of a use is the “output muxer” in my ALU design, which selects the operation to use. My current design is much bulkier (and slower) than yours.
Imitating greatness: 16-bit Hack ALU design
KEEP CALM AND EAT CAKE
It uses the vertical RS NOR latch from this post. The very rightmost cell (with the ~Q output) can be moved to the asterisk (*) to make it shorter in that direction.
I'm unhappy with how much space the clock lines take up, but it does make it easy to connect a bunch in a line for a shift register. I'd like to find a way to bring in the left side by one more cell.
That's very nifty, I really need to learn the rules for vertical signal propagation. However, I don't think it helps here. You have to run the clock line one cell further out to the left with your design. It also introduces a 1 tick delay on the clock, which is minor but can make synchronizing more of a pain. I do appreciate you looking at it though.
P.S. May I ask what program you used to make that gif?
2x3x5 (can place side-by-side horizontally)
2x3x5 (clock from the side)
1x5x6 (completely vertical)
Does anyone know if it's possible to make wide buses like the one above go around corners in a fixed number of ticks? The obvious way of going around a corner makes the lines toward the outer radius much longer than the inner lines, requiring inverters on some lines but not others. This means I need to add extra delay to the inner lines after the corner (which is undesirable) or find a way to fold it over (like a ribbon cable) in a compact space.
Any ideas?
Edit: Of course, right when I post about it I figure it out.
The upper torches transmit to lines above and the lower torches to lines below, then they're put back together.
Edit 2: I just realized this has the same effect as just sticking inverters on a regular corner unless the bus is more than 15 wide in which case you'd need to invert multiple times, but that's not really solved with this either. :/
Edit 3: Good news, the torches aren't necessary for this at all. Now all of the signals arrive at the same time and travel the same distance, so there's no need for staggered/multiple repeaters.
ah u beat me to it
schematic
Is this image missing some layers? The wires seem to not be connected to anything.
Yes. It's pretty much the same as what paj2323 posted.
I have an AND gate made with both inputs each coming from a single lever; one outside (open/close) and one inside (lock/unlock).
The output is connected to my door, but i run into my problem trying to hide the wiring connected to my door. When i put down blocks to complete the floor just inside the door it cuts off the connection to the output of the AND gate.
So, I was wondering if there is any way to make an AND gate with my same inputs that are working, but instead of the output wired straight to the door, if I could lead the output wire to the block underneath my door and transmit up using another red torch.
I've tried to do this and the door is powered by the torch, but the AND circuit doesn't seem to work the way it should this way.
Also, is it true that you can put glass over/on top of the wiring and it will not break the connection?
Please help me!
Thanks
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Retired StaffTo get the output to go somewhere, place another block on top of the output torch and a torch on the side of that block, and carry on.
I've also seen people do some pretty weird staircasing to get redstone to go vertically.. you can simply do this:
Use an odd number of torches if you want the output to be inverted, or an even number of torches if you want the input to equal the output.
I think I'm going to write my own redstone basics guide, because I can't seem to find one that teaches the very basics.
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Retired StaffThat was more geared towards people around my level- not those who are doing ALUs and things of the such.
I just haven't been able to find a guide that starts with the basics. Most information about redstone starts at gates and skips the basics of how it works in the first place, which I aim to explain to the best of my ability.
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Retired StaffHow do you know all that? Experience, and practice. I didn't know all that when I started, and the guides I was reading on the forum did not clearly explain all of that. That's what I'm doing. I'm starting with the basics, such as how power is transmitted (on a basic level) and how to think logically (I walk the user through the creation of an AND gate in my guide). There "isn't any more to tell", you're right. I'm just compiling the basic information I've learned and putting it in an easy-to-use guide.
I agree that experimenting is the best way to learn, but it helps to understand how it works at least. I know that for myself, I was trying to deliver power from one torch to another torch on the same level as the redstone and couldn't figure out why nothing was happening. A simple paragraph or two on how power flows would have helped me there.
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Retired StaffPerhaps this discussion would be better suited to take place on my thread: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=107289
Instead of cramming up this thread about it.
xgkkp: I don't think my tutorial is bad. But naturally, I'm inclined to think that. If you have anything you want to say about my guide, I ask you to reply to it so I can make any necessary modifications.
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Retired StaffSince I'm about to post in this topic anyways, I'll go ahead and reply here:
At the very beginning of my guide, I make the basic assumption that you've found redstone and you want to know what to do with it. It's not my aim to explain how to find redstone, rather, I want to explain how to use redstone. Play the game, mine some caves.. you'll find redstone.
I explain how to make a redstone torch, albeit briefly. Again, this is not the aim of my guide. A brief "stick on bottom, redstone dust on top" is all that is needed for that matter.
I don't know what you're asking in your next two questions. Redstone can be in one of two states- ON or OFF. Redstone wire is used for input to the vertical faces of a block. Redstone torches are used for inputs to the top and bottom of a block, when mounted one block above or one block below the receiving block, respectively. Redstone torches mounted on a block serve as output for that block. Again, redstone will ever only have one state of a possible two- it is either ON or OFF.
As far as "images of redstone schemes", you don't see any in my guide. Redstone schematics are outside the realm that I am discussing and lie solely with those guides and tutorials aimed at explaining (or implementing) those schematics and the programs that use them.
And to your first point: In my guide, I explicitly explain how blocks receive power and how outputs change.
To me, it seems like you skimmed over my guide and begun criticizing it. That's just my opinion, though. I'll include the post up until the last paragraph as a post in my guide, for other people's reference. And for future reference, talk about my guide in its thread, so we don't clutter up this thread with things not directly pertaining to the topic at hand.
Anyways, on to what I was coming here for in the first place..
Why is it that this setup has such an odd behavior? (Torch on top is not necessary)
If you build this in game, you'll see that one side will flash on and off a few times, then the other side, and then there will be a period where the torches and the wires will be OFF, after which it loops. I'm going to use this as the base for a beacon tower, but I don't know why it's demonstrating this behavior.