If they make torches limited, then they should at least replace all previous torches with infinite torches. What if you have a cave lit with torches? You would have to go down all over again and relight all of them, which is a pain ._.
This fix for problem has been stated by myself and another person. Notch plans on replacing all current torches with lanterns.
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I herd you liek music. Especially music by C418 Get it here!
If they make torches limited, then they should at least replace all previous torches with infinite torches. What if you have a cave lit with torches? You would have to go down all over again and relight all of them, which is a pain ._.
its called. Don't get attached to your saves. Notch has said this before.
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You can go ahead and move at the speed of light, But i will move at the speed of darkness.
And yeah, if you don't want to fight mobs, put the game on peaceful.
It's not that I don't want to fight mobs, I don't want mobs respawning in areas I have cleared. I have fought and been killed plenty of times by mobs. It makes spelunking much more interesting. I wouldn't bother playing the game if there were no mobs. At the same time I don't want to have the additional game chore of managing replacing torches throughout a cave complex I am still working on. And I have seen many cave complexes that required multiple game days to fully exploit. Once I have mined out a cave complex, I could care less if the torches go out. I never go back there.
I keep coming back to wonder, why make this change when 2/3 of the players don't want it? It just doesn't make sense.
Make it an (opt-in**) option. If it is an option, then there is absolutely zero reason for anybody to disagree about anything I read in the whole first two pages of the thread. And so far, over several threads, I have not seen a single reason why making it an option would hurt anybody or create any problems itself.
The end! So why are we still arguing?
**The finite torches option needs to be turned OFF by default for already-created maps. I don't care if it is on or off by default for new maps. But for already-created maps, it is obnoxious to replace all of my torches with lanterns if they have a completely different graphic/light amount. I have designed everything with the way torches look in mind - both the graphic of the actual torch AND the amount of light it puts out, and this has a high chance of making everything really ugly.
If you want to turn them all into lanterns, then you can go an flip the option, and the first time you do so on an existing world, it will convert torches to lanterns. If not, then don't.
If this were really hard to code, then it would be fine, whatever. But it obviously would not be hard to code. And it would save a lot of people many many hours.
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Przerwap, upon looking at some code I had just written: "...Gav... That's not how programming works."
You guys DO know that the torches that are currently used will all become lanterns if Notch implements finite torches right? Or at least, he said he'd do that. Might not totally work right, but still.
Hell, I'd bet that this was posted in this very topic at least once.
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You just wasted -insert arbitrary number + measurement of time here- reading this.
If they make torches limited, then they should at least replace all previous torches with infinite torches. What if you have a cave lit with torches? You would have to go down all over again and relight all of them, which is a pain ._.
its called. Don't get attached to your saves. Notch has said this before.
Translation: "Don't play the game seriously from a building/aesthetics/design standpoint, which is probably what about half the people who own it primarily do and enjoy the game for."
Um, whaattt? I don't care if Notch said it, or the tooth fairy said it... that is a really dumb statement to throw out there for a sandbox lego-type game.
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Przerwap, upon looking at some code I had just written: "...Gav... That's not how programming works."
You guys DO know that the torches that are currently used will all become lanterns if Notch implements finite torches right? Or at least, he said he'd do that. Might not totally work right, but still.
Hell, I'd bet that this was posted in this very topic at least once.
This is posted at least three times on every page. I don't think people actually read past the first post...
You guys DO know that the torches that are currently used will all become lanterns if Notch implements finite torches right? Or at least, he said he'd do that. Might not totally work right, but still.
Hell, I'd bet that this was posted in this very topic at least once.
This is posted at least three times on every page. I don't think people actually read past the first post...
Did it occur to you guys that maybe people know it perfectly well, DO read the threads, and most still don't like the idea? It is rather arrogant to assume that people disagreeing with you MUST mean they aren't literate/are lazy...
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Przerwap, upon looking at some code I had just written: "...Gav... That's not how programming works."
If they make torches limited, then they should at least replace all previous torches with infinite torches. What if you have a cave lit with torches? You would have to go down all over again and relight all of them, which is a pain ._.
its called. Don't get attached to your saves. Notch has said this before.
Translation: "Don't play the game seriously from a building/aesthetics/design standpoint, which is probably what about half the people who own it primarily do and enjoy the game for."
Um, whaattt? I don't care if Notch said it, or the tooth fairy said it... that is a really dumb statement to throw out there for a sandbox lego-type game.
You are dumbing down my statement with your own blindness , or arrogance i can't tell fully which you are using.
You either do not comprehend that at any time notch can completely destroy all saves for one reason or another. That the game is in "development" and will be "developed" regardless of people loving their super fortress of 1337. Understand that people do enjoy it for that reason, But when the game is being developed their are going to be things that break to make room for the awesome things/ mechanics. For instance, notch was kicking around the idea of making "blocks fall" as you can see in his to do list. This would make all sky castles fall out of the sky if not supported by whatever he decides to act as a support.
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You can go ahead and move at the speed of light, But i will move at the speed of darkness.
This is the disadvantage of having such an open development cycle, people become invested in existing versions and migration becomes painful and difficult. The sudden spike in popularity in combination with a lull in development is kind of a perfect storm of potential backlash. This is a tricky situation.
this is a terrible idea and I prob won't bother updating my game any further if this is the case. Well maybe if he makes it optional or adds a different mode that is more like it is currently.
I play this game to build structures not to feel like I am working. Needing to redo my work over and over again is exactly that.
over 71% have voted no. If he does in fact read these forums he should rethink his plan to add this.
this is a terrible idea and I prob won't bother updating my game any further if this is the case. Well maybe if he makes it optional or adds a different mode that is more like it is currently.
I play this game to build structures not to feel like I am working. Needing to redo my work over and over again is exactly that.
over 71% have voted no. If he does in fact read these forums he should rethink his plan to add this.
And the problem with using lamps on your structure instead of torches would be?
This is the disadvantage of having such an open development cycle, people become invested in existing versions and migration becomes painful and difficult. The sudden spike in popularity in combination with a lull in development is kind of a perfect storm of potential backlash. This is a tricky situation.
[also relevant to rynver:]
I have been playing for exactly 1 week. I have made a couple of pretty buildings and things, but I would barely miss a beat if everything were suddenly destroyed.
My reaction to limited torches has nothing to do with "investment" or entrenched preferences. I don't have any of any sort yet. My negative reaction to a non-optional lighting change is because I think it's just a plain bad idea for the kind of game this is to force people to play the survival part of it more. Or, even if you are playing on peaceful, being forced to waste a ton of time gathering a LOT more resources for aesthetic light sources will be really annoying and create an unnecessarily high a grind:design ratio for design-minded people.
I would have had the same opinion 48 hours after starting the game if you had asked me then, too. As soon as I understood how it basically all works/what kinds of different playstyles there are. I would have realized that it would simply be a bad idea to funnel people (with no option toggle) toward a particular playstyle in a sandbox game that has the major benefit of NOT forcing any single playstyle.
Open development in general merely highlights when wrong game design decisions are wrong. As opposed to us not knowing any better and just not having as much fun without knowing why we aren't having as much fun (if there hadn't been open development). That is a GOOD thing. If you encounter a ton of resistance to your game design plans in open development, perhaps they were not the correct plans *gasp*
Notice that NOBODY is complaining about, say, water control gates. People aren't just conservative overall about everything. We are conservative about things that would negatively affect the game for a lot of people if changed.
Edit:
And the problem with using lamps on your structure instead of torches would be?
-We don't necessarily want a much brighter light. Some things look a lot better with dim light.
-It is a different object. Torches graphically make better sense in some settings aesthetically. If this sort of thing didn't matter and aesthetics were stupid, then why do we have cobblestone and smooth, two different colors of flowers, etc.?
- It costs a lot more. About twice as much coal (if you use it to smelt the glass) and stone too. The game already feels a bit too weighted toward the grind-y side for design types of players, IMO. It's fine, but we certainly don't need a bunch MORE forced grind with no option.
None of these are a huge deal, but it is exceedingly simple to give an option with a line or two of code that doesn't keep around any significant bloat.
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Przerwap, upon looking at some code I had just written: "...Gav... That's not how programming works."
You guys DO know that the torches that are currently used will all become lanterns if Notch implements finite torches right? Or at least, he said he'd do that. Might not totally work right, but still.
Hell, I'd bet that this was posted in this very topic at least once.
This is posted at least three times on every page. I don't think people actually read past the first post...
Did it occur to you guys that maybe people know it perfectly well, DO read the threads, and most still don't like the idea? It is rather arrogant to assume that people disagreeing with you MUST mean they aren't literate/are lazy...
Sorry if you misunderstood. I was talking about how people keep saying that they don't want all of their torches to go out in the maps they've explored. I was trying to make it clear that these old torches would become lanterns since lanterns would inherit the old torch ID. I do, in fact, respect everyone's opinions so long as they have sound arguments.
Basically, complaining that you would lose all the torches you placed up to this point is irrelevant since it won't happen. It's not a difference of opinion, it's a difference of knowledge.
This topic just makes me sad. People are playing SURVIVAL mode when they don't want to survive, for one thing. A lot of people don't seem to want something that would make the game a challenge in a tolerable way besides freakishly awful mobs.
Most of the people posting here who are against this seem to have joined within the last week or so. I'm guessing this is because new players (I'm assuming the new users only started playing recently) won't have good mining strategies or practice with caves, thus they haven't found as much coal and find survival extremely challenging. However, there are those of us who are more experienced with the game, who realize how easy the game can get if you prevent most mobs from spawning with the most basic material and the most common ore. It's silly that someone would ragequit over a change like this, especially when there will be another light source replacing all current torches that DOES last forever, provides better lighting, and can be placed on ceilings.
I'm too tired to think again (This happens WAY too often) and don't really know what I'm posting, but I hope I don't come off as sounding like I'm prejudiced against ALL new players or anything. I'm just ticked off at people who'd pass up a great game just because of one change out of many that has been known for months and makes the game slightly more realistic and tricky. It makes me dread what the community will be like in the future.
Sorry if you misunderstood. I was talking about how people keep saying that they don't want all of their torches to go out in the maps they've explored. I was trying to make it clear that these old torches would become lanterns since lanterns would inherit the old torch ID. I do, in fact, respect everyone's opinions so long as they have sound arguments.
Basically, complaining that you would lose all the torches you placed up to this point is irrelevant since it won't happen. It's not a difference of opinion, it's a difference of knowledge.
I just went and counted, and exactly 4 out of >100 posts in this thread are from people who unambiguously do not understand the current plans about lanterns and replacing of current torches, etc. Versus one or two dozen posts from people going out of their way to explain this for some reason, usually in response to nobody at all in particular.
edit: including SEVERAL immediately after the opening of the thread, before a single person expressed any confusion at all.
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Przerwap, upon looking at some code I had just written: "...Gav... That's not how programming works."
To be honest, I just recently started again. (Played this back when classic survival was the new shi----)
Anyways, I support limiting torches and making a new permanent replacement.
There are a few reasons for this:
Enhances the 'survival' aspect, as it is, I can just edge forward in dungeons placing torch at a time to keep myself /relatively/ safe from impending doom. They are very cheap and easy to get. It almost takes the challenge out of Spelunking. (For reference, I play this game solely on hard mode.)
Gives more of a scaling difficulty without being incredibly unbalanced. From what this thread has stated, even lanterns are relatively easy to make, with all (with the exception of coal and sand) being an easy to harvest renewable resource. (Sand just being extremely abundant.)
If I wanted to just make pretty things and not want to worry about grinding and such, well, there is Create mode for that.
PS: Dungeons and mobs still scare the hell outta me. Every time an ambient noise or mob sound alarms me through h the speakers my mouse flails violently around the screen for a few moments, usually proceeding with me falling down some various hole of some sort into a den of evil evil.
PSS: I'm freakishly addicted to this game.
PSSS: Now if lanterns could hang from ceilings, that would be extraordinarily sexy.
Limited torches are an excellent idea as long as there is alternative permanent lighting. This game is too easy in its current state and torches being what they are definitely contribute to that flaw. I want my caves to continue to be scary when I come back to them.
To be honest, I just recently started again. (Played this back when classic survival was the new shi----)
Anyways, I support limiting torches and making a new permanent replacement.
There are a few reasons for this:
Enhances the 'survival' aspect, as it is, I can just edge forward in dungeons placing torch at a time to keep myself /relatively/ safe from impending doom. They are very cheap and easy to get. It almost takes the challenge out of Spelunking. (For reference, I play this game solely on hard mode.)
Gives more of a scaling difficulty without being incredibly unbalanced. From what this thread has stated, even lanterns are relatively easy to make, with all (with the exception of coal and sand) being an easy to harvest renewable resource. (Sand just being extremely abundant.)
If I wanted to just make pretty things and not want to worry about grinding and such, well, there is Create mode for that.
PS: Dungeons and mobs still scare the hell outta me. Every time an ambient noise or mob sound alarms me through h the speakers my mouse flails violently around the screen for a few moments, usually proceeding with me falling down some various hole of some sort into a den of evil evil.
PSS: I'm freakishly addicted to this game.
PSSS: Now if lanterns could hang from ceilings, that would be extraordinarily sexy.
^
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Quote from Brain Slushy »
Dorf villages DORF VILLAGES DORF ****ING VILLAGES YESYESYEYESYESYEYES
Torches need to be limited, right now you just clear a few mobs, spam cheap torches and your cave is clear of all dangers. It's nice in a way, cause it's easy, but having limited lighting would make it more interesting, there'd be a second step in light security (torches first, then when settled or when a cave is rich, make lanterns).
It would also motivate people to cooperate in smp to make lanterns more efficiently (mass production).
This fix for problem has been stated by myself and another person. Notch plans on replacing all current torches with lanterns.
Get it here!
its called. Don't get attached to your saves. Notch has said this before.
It's not that I don't want to fight mobs, I don't want mobs respawning in areas I have cleared. I have fought and been killed plenty of times by mobs. It makes spelunking much more interesting. I wouldn't bother playing the game if there were no mobs. At the same time I don't want to have the additional game chore of managing replacing torches throughout a cave complex I am still working on. And I have seen many cave complexes that required multiple game days to fully exploit. Once I have mined out a cave complex, I could care less if the torches go out. I never go back there.
I keep coming back to wonder, why make this change when 2/3 of the players don't want it? It just doesn't make sense.
Make it an (opt-in**) option. If it is an option, then there is absolutely zero reason for anybody to disagree about anything I read in the whole first two pages of the thread. And so far, over several threads, I have not seen a single reason why making it an option would hurt anybody or create any problems itself.
The end! So why are we still arguing?
**The finite torches option needs to be turned OFF by default for already-created maps. I don't care if it is on or off by default for new maps. But for already-created maps, it is obnoxious to replace all of my torches with lanterns if they have a completely different graphic/light amount. I have designed everything with the way torches look in mind - both the graphic of the actual torch AND the amount of light it puts out, and this has a high chance of making everything really ugly.
If you want to turn them all into lanterns, then you can go an flip the option, and the first time you do so on an existing world, it will convert torches to lanterns. If not, then don't.
If this were really hard to code, then it would be fine, whatever. But it obviously would not be hard to code. And it would save a lot of people many many hours.
You guys DO know that the torches that are currently used will all become lanterns if Notch implements finite torches right? Or at least, he said he'd do that. Might not totally work right, but still.
Hell, I'd bet that this was posted in this very topic at least once.
Congratulations.
Translation: "Don't play the game seriously from a building/aesthetics/design standpoint, which is probably what about half the people who own it primarily do and enjoy the game for."
Um, whaattt? I don't care if Notch said it, or the tooth fairy said it... that is a really dumb statement to throw out there for a sandbox lego-type game.
This is posted at least three times on every page. I don't think people actually read past the first post...
Did it occur to you guys that maybe people know it perfectly well, DO read the threads, and most still don't like the idea? It is rather arrogant to assume that people disagreeing with you MUST mean they aren't literate/are lazy...
You are dumbing down my statement with your own blindness , or arrogance i can't tell fully which you are using.
You either do not comprehend that at any time notch can completely destroy all saves for one reason or another. That the game is in "development" and will be "developed" regardless of people loving their super fortress of 1337. Understand that people do enjoy it for that reason, But when the game is being developed their are going to be things that break to make room for the awesome things/ mechanics. For instance, notch was kicking around the idea of making "blocks fall" as you can see in his to do list. This would make all sky castles fall out of the sky if not supported by whatever he decides to act as a support.
I play this game to build structures not to feel like I am working. Needing to redo my work over and over again is exactly that.
over 71% have voted no. If he does in fact read these forums he should rethink his plan to add this.
And the problem with using lamps on your structure instead of torches would be?
Warning: Content of link might be highly addictive.
[also relevant to rynver:]
I have been playing for exactly 1 week. I have made a couple of pretty buildings and things, but I would barely miss a beat if everything were suddenly destroyed.
My reaction to limited torches has nothing to do with "investment" or entrenched preferences. I don't have any of any sort yet. My negative reaction to a non-optional lighting change is because I think it's just a plain bad idea for the kind of game this is to force people to play the survival part of it more. Or, even if you are playing on peaceful, being forced to waste a ton of time gathering a LOT more resources for aesthetic light sources will be really annoying and create an unnecessarily high a grind:design ratio for design-minded people.
I would have had the same opinion 48 hours after starting the game if you had asked me then, too. As soon as I understood how it basically all works/what kinds of different playstyles there are. I would have realized that it would simply be a bad idea to funnel people (with no option toggle) toward a particular playstyle in a sandbox game that has the major benefit of NOT forcing any single playstyle.
Open development in general merely highlights when wrong game design decisions are wrong. As opposed to us not knowing any better and just not having as much fun without knowing why we aren't having as much fun (if there hadn't been open development). That is a GOOD thing. If you encounter a ton of resistance to your game design plans in open development, perhaps they were not the correct plans *gasp*
Notice that NOBODY is complaining about, say, water control gates. People aren't just conservative overall about everything. We are conservative about things that would negatively affect the game for a lot of people if changed.
Edit:
-We don't necessarily want a much brighter light. Some things look a lot better with dim light.
-It is a different object. Torches graphically make better sense in some settings aesthetically. If this sort of thing didn't matter and aesthetics were stupid, then why do we have cobblestone and smooth, two different colors of flowers, etc.?
- It costs a lot more. About twice as much coal (if you use it to smelt the glass) and stone too. The game already feels a bit too weighted toward the grind-y side for design types of players, IMO. It's fine, but we certainly don't need a bunch MORE forced grind with no option.
None of these are a huge deal, but it is exceedingly simple to give an option with a line or two of code that doesn't keep around any significant bloat.
Sorry if you misunderstood. I was talking about how people keep saying that they don't want all of their torches to go out in the maps they've explored. I was trying to make it clear that these old torches would become lanterns since lanterns would inherit the old torch ID. I do, in fact, respect everyone's opinions so long as they have sound arguments.
Basically, complaining that you would lose all the torches you placed up to this point is irrelevant since it won't happen. It's not a difference of opinion, it's a difference of knowledge.
Most of the people posting here who are against this seem to have joined within the last week or so. I'm guessing this is because new players (I'm assuming the new users only started playing recently) won't have good mining strategies or practice with caves, thus they haven't found as much coal and find survival extremely challenging. However, there are those of us who are more experienced with the game, who realize how easy the game can get if you prevent most mobs from spawning with the most basic material and the most common ore. It's silly that someone would ragequit over a change like this, especially when there will be another light source replacing all current torches that DOES last forever, provides better lighting, and can be placed on ceilings.
I'm too tired to think again (This happens WAY too often) and don't really know what I'm posting, but I hope I don't come off as sounding like I'm prejudiced against ALL new players or anything. I'm just ticked off at people who'd pass up a great game just because of one change out of many that has been known for months and makes the game slightly more realistic and tricky. It makes me dread what the community will be like in the future.
I just went and counted, and exactly 4 out of >100 posts in this thread are from people who unambiguously do not understand the current plans about lanterns and replacing of current torches, etc. Versus one or two dozen posts from people going out of their way to explain this for some reason, usually in response to nobody at all in particular.
edit: including SEVERAL immediately after the opening of the thread, before a single person expressed any confusion at all.
Anyways, I support limiting torches and making a new permanent replacement.
There are a few reasons for this:
Enhances the 'survival' aspect, as it is, I can just edge forward in dungeons placing torch at a time to keep myself /relatively/ safe from impending doom. They are very cheap and easy to get. It almost takes the challenge out of Spelunking. (For reference, I play this game solely on hard mode.)
Gives more of a scaling difficulty without being incredibly unbalanced. From what this thread has stated, even lanterns are relatively easy to make, with all (with the exception of coal and sand) being an easy to harvest renewable resource. (Sand just being extremely abundant.)
If I wanted to just make pretty things and not want to worry about grinding and such, well, there is Create mode for that.
PS: Dungeons and mobs still scare the hell outta me. Every time an ambient noise or mob sound alarms me through h the speakers my mouse flails violently around the screen for a few moments, usually proceeding with me falling down some various hole of some sort into a den of evil evil.
PSS: I'm freakishly addicted to this game.
PSSS: Now if lanterns could hang from ceilings, that would be extraordinarily sexy.
^
It would also motivate people to cooperate in smp to make lanterns more efficiently (mass production).