I didn't feel like this belonged in the suggestions forum since it's not really a suggestion for the minecraft codebase, but more of an idea for server admins. What's the difference between griefing and PvP? Well, a griefer just logs on, causes havoc, and then logs off. But a PvPer has something to lose. What stops people from stealing and commiting arson in real life? Laws. But there's no laws in SMP, I see it working somewhat like an anarchy. You wrong others and eventually people are going to start hunting you down and making you pay. This works as a game dynamic. But a griefer can just log out and forget it ever happened. So what do you do?
Simple. I suggest new players on a server are put on "probation" - they are NOT allowed to kill other players except in self defense or destroy buildings, else they will get a ban. The player first has to play on the server for a while and start gathering resources, building a base, talking with other players etc before they're allowed to engage in PvP. But once a player has found a niche in the server and has a reason to stay (like a fancy base or a nice cache of diamonds), it's fair game for them. If they want to keep the things they've spent time working on they have to keep logging in, and if they've pissed off a bunch of other players there will be meaningful consequences whenever they log in. They'll probably be killed on sight if they've been "griefing." Notchgod help you if an entire server is pissed at you and they find your base and happen to have some tnt on them. If you've stolen from someone, they can steal back - plus a little interest for the inconvenience you've caused them, if you know what I mean. Just like anarchy in real life, eh? As an incentive for staying in line, it works fantastically. Not that it'll stop some people, some players will WANT to play that way, it adds excitement. This is a perfectly legitimate play style, as long as there's consequences for their actions that make sense in the context of the game.
This is just admin level enforcement though - there's nothing to stop a city or organization from imposing law over its members or developing procedures for dealing with outsiders who attack members. Your org might just not care, or they could put bounties on players who attack their members within their territory. Orgs could also permanently put you on a blacklist and wreck your **** at any given opportunity for repeated offenses.
There probably will be some servers that do this. If I ran a server, I probably wouldn't do this unless it turned into a lolrandumb killfest. If that happens, which it probably will on some servers, a system like this could be helpful.
If I ran a server, I'd require an application that asks how much you will be playing/what play style before I admitted anyone in. It's like signing up for a game within a game, which doesn't really make much sense, but would keep my server feeling more like a mmo because it wouldn't be just random people coming and going.
Go make more spawn jails in creative , we don't have to apologize for participating in a competitive game.
What game is that?
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"Survival" is a film/literature/video game genre about survival and self-sufficiency in the wild.
"Survival of the fittest" is a phrase used to paraphrase natural selection.
didnt we already have like five 11 paged threads about this?
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Quote from TurtleeyMC »
Matt, seriously, stop trolling. So can you please shut the **** up and go troll the infdev forums about how much you want to get 10 bucks from your hobo house?
Simple. I suggest new players on a server are put on "probation" - they are NOT allowed to kill other players except in self defense or destroy buildings, else they will get a ban.
Simply bad.
People could follow newcomers around with lava buckets to try and provoke them into getting themselves banned , or otherwise trap them. Besides , how do you differentiate buildings from the rest of the map ?
Go make more spawn jails in creative , we don't have to apologize for participating in a competitive game.
Quote from dugtoodeep »
except in self defense
Reading comprehension. You should learn it. You even QUOTED that. In this case I'm referring to "PvP" as any offensive action whatsoever, whether it be stealing, attacking, or destroying buildings.
Quote from Mattk50 »
didnt we already have like five 11 paged threads about this?
I wouldn't know, I had no idea what keyword to search for.
Just have the PvP as a server-wide flag. Player types "/pvp" to turn on his flag, and at that time can attack anyone else with their "/pvp" flag turned on. As a penalty, any pvp-er to have engaged in combat would have to wait 5 in-game days without fighting before they can turn their flag back off.
A reason for it to be flag specific would be to enjoy fighting one another on a sever, but having full opportunity to team up in exploration. If, for example, you are a melee fighter and your ally has a bow ready, I really don't think you'd want your friend to keep shooting you in the back by accident, instead of shooting the damn creepers.
Go make more spawn jails in creative , we don't have to apologize for participating in a competitive game.
Define 'participating' and 'competitive'. A griefer who only exists to annoy others and destroy for the sake of destroying is neither truly participating in the game, nor are they acting competitively, as they are gaining nothing ingame.
Despite our need to deal with griefers, I don't agree with OP's system. Anti-griefing shouldn't ruin the game for the majority of serious players, and this runs the risk of getting innocent players punished. I would rather have an innocent until proven guilty system.
Just have the PvP as a server-wide flag. Player types "/pvp" to turn on his flag, and at that time can attack anyone else with their "/pvp" flag turned on. As a penalty, any pvp-er to have engaged in combat would have to wait 5 in-game days without fighting before they can turn their flag back off.
A reason for it to be flag specific would be to enjoy fighting one another on a sever, but having full opportunity to team up in exploration. If, for example, you are a melee fighter and your ally has a bow ready, I really don't think you'd want your friend to keep shooting you in the back by accident, instead of shooting the damn creepers.
That sounds like a very good way of letting players choose whether or not to participate in PvP, but I'm not sure how stealing or building destruction would factor in... I suppose land claim flags could help with this. Still, griefers don't really care whether or not they die. Actually the act of griefing itself would be much more difficult without hax, but they would probably do things like steal from houses and dump it all in the ocean, or "borrow" some tnt from someone and make some minor modifications to your house. Or just catch you off guard and kill you. Having a PvP flag turned on won't matter if they never log back. But still a useful idea.
These threads are not intended to stop griefing, they are intended to suck the fun out of SMP....,.
Yes, because the topic is titled "how to make SMP a carebearfest for weenies" and that's all we are trying to do, rather than find a balance between the "hardcore" players that want to kill everything that moves, and the players who want to be cooperative and work together.
Remember when Notch talked about the three SMP game modes? PvP, Co-op, and Adventure? I think that servers should be able to be specifically one mode, and have specific rules accordingly. As such, PvP players can join a server where everyone wants to kill eachother, I can join a server where we work together to build impressive structures, anyone can decide to play adventure mode and go treasure hunting, and servers can be neutral/allow for custom scripting, like a "castles" server type where you join a team and then get a good chunk of in game time to build up fortifications, before the barrier between your bases is removed and you battle. It would (in theory) make everyone happy.
These threads are not intended to stop griefing, they are intended to suck the fun out of SMP....,.
No, you had it right the first time, they're intended to stop griefing. Are you *really* going to start killing and destroying **** the moment you log in? Don't even tell me you're not going to at least make a little hovel for yourself and start mining for steel. SMP won't be a deathmatch, it's Survival. There will probably be servers where that kind of thing is allowed and even encouraged, but I imagine most admins are going to want some kind of semi-structured environment. You would only need to play for part of a day, or maybe two to gain an admin's trust. This is no different from creative mode.
Different servers will have different policies, this is just one idea for maintaining a fun (yes, really) PvP environment that isn't just griefers griefing griefers griefing griefers. If you can't be assed to stay on a server and contribute SOMETHING to it for a few hours before you can pillage to your hearts content on that server any time you want then you should probably just grief creative servers.
These threads are not intended to stop griefing, they are intended to suck the fun out of SMP....,.
No, you had it right the first time, they're intended to stop griefing. Are you *really* going to start killing and destroying **** the moment you log in? Don't even tell me you're not going to at least make a little hovel for yourself and start mining for steel. SMP won't be a deathmatch, it's Survival. There will probably be servers where that kind of thing is allowed and even encouraged, but I imagine most admins are going to want some kind of semi-structured environment. You would only need to play for part of a day, or maybe two to gain an admin's trust. This is no different from creative mode.
Different servers will have different policies, this is just one idea for maintaining a fun (yes, really) PvP environment that isn't just griefers griefing griefers griefing griefers. If you can't be assed to stay on a server and contribute SOMETHING to it for a few hours before you can pillage to your hearts content on that server any time you want then you should probably just grief creative servers.
I plan on playing around on a few servers, then (Hopefully) create a server for my clan, then we could create stuff.... By playing around, I mean doing whatever I feel like on a few servers... I will restrain myself for my clan server, but I would make a few events where the spawn point is set in the middle of an arena..... which will be awesome ^^
...You're not reading, are you? When you first log into a server YOU can be attacked or stolen from, and you're allowed to attack in defense. You're free to attack and kill anyone firing arrows at you or running off with your diamonds, but you're not allowed to make offensive actions like starting a fight with someone minding their own business or burning the thief's house down after you already gave them the ol' one-two with your diamond blade. This doesn't make it any safer for you.
This isn't a hard concept to understand. I swear it's like you people haven't played a MUD or any game with a reasonably developed PvP system.
I don't understand why everyone thinks that the "griefer" will somehow instantaneously know where the other players will be the very second they join the server. They would most likely have to do some serious searching before they found at least one person. They could be in some anonymous cave, deep underground or several miles in the opposite direction in a tiny house hidden behind a hill.
I played a game where you had an alignment system, whereas your alignment would fall roughly 8-10 points out of a possible 100 for every hit you land on another system. once your alignment falls below 20, you are given a black colored name and can't use any healing items, making you very vulnerable to other players. Alignment goes up 1 every minute. Just throwing that out there, doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Do not wallow do not stall
Time waits for none at all
Your allowance may crawl,
It may fly or even vanish
But none will seem more lavished
Than time lost to all.
I don't understand why everyone thinks that the "griefer" will somehow instantaneously know where the other players will be the very second they join the server. They would most likely have to do some serious searching before they found at least one person. They could be in some anonymous cave, deep underground or several miles in the opposite direction in a tiny house hidden behind a hill.
You're assuming that signs of player habitation won't be obvious in most cases, it's not hard to stand on a hill and notice large clusters of torches or deforested areas. Or massive towers. I seriously doubt that every player is going to turtle underground in a super secret base just for security reasons, eventually someone is going to want to build aboveground. What fun would that be?
Do you think that griefers would really go that far by paying 13$ out of their pocket to make a bunch of spambots? Really?
Yes.
I've seen stupider.
I REALLY doubt it man. I mean creative mode is plagued with griefers due to ease of access to it because it is free. A griefer would have to be very dedicated to fork out alot of money to grief.
Simple. I suggest new players on a server are put on "probation" - they are NOT allowed to kill other players except in self defense or destroy buildings, else they will get a ban. The player first has to play on the server for a while and start gathering resources, building a base, talking with other players etc before they're allowed to engage in PvP. But once a player has found a niche in the server and has a reason to stay (like a fancy base or a nice cache of diamonds), it's fair game for them. If they want to keep the things they've spent time working on they have to keep logging in, and if they've pissed off a bunch of other players there will be meaningful consequences whenever they log in. They'll probably be killed on sight if they've been "griefing." Notchgod help you if an entire server is pissed at you and they find your base and happen to have some tnt on them. If you've stolen from someone, they can steal back - plus a little interest for the inconvenience you've caused them, if you know what I mean. Just like anarchy in real life, eh? As an incentive for staying in line, it works fantastically. Not that it'll stop some people, some players will WANT to play that way, it adds excitement. This is a perfectly legitimate play style, as long as there's consequences for their actions that make sense in the context of the game.
This is just admin level enforcement though - there's nothing to stop a city or organization from imposing law over its members or developing procedures for dealing with outsiders who attack members. Your org might just not care, or they could put bounties on players who attack their members within their territory. Orgs could also permanently put you on a blacklist and wreck your **** at any given opportunity for repeated offenses.
What do you think?
What game is that?
"Survival of the fittest" is a phrase used to paraphrase natural selection.
Reading comprehension. You should learn it. You even QUOTED that. In this case I'm referring to "PvP" as any offensive action whatsoever, whether it be stealing, attacking, or destroying buildings.
I wouldn't know, I had no idea what keyword to search for.
A reason for it to be flag specific would be to enjoy fighting one another on a sever, but having full opportunity to team up in exploration. If, for example, you are a melee fighter and your ally has a bow ready, I really don't think you'd want your friend to keep shooting you in the back by accident, instead of shooting the damn creepers.
Define 'participating' and 'competitive'. A griefer who only exists to annoy others and destroy for the sake of destroying is neither truly participating in the game, nor are they acting competitively, as they are gaining nothing ingame.
Despite our need to deal with griefers, I don't agree with OP's system. Anti-griefing shouldn't ruin the game for the majority of serious players, and this runs the risk of getting innocent players punished. I would rather have an innocent until proven guilty system.
That sounds like a very good way of letting players choose whether or not to participate in PvP, but I'm not sure how stealing or building destruction would factor in... I suppose land claim flags could help with this. Still, griefers don't really care whether or not they die. Actually the act of griefing itself would be much more difficult without hax, but they would probably do things like steal from houses and dump it all in the ocean, or "borrow" some tnt from someone and make some minor modifications to your house. Or just catch you off guard and kill you. Having a PvP flag turned on won't matter if they never log back. But still a useful idea.
Yes, because the topic is titled "how to make SMP a carebearfest for weenies" and that's all we are trying to do, rather than find a balance between the "hardcore" players that want to kill everything that moves, and the players who want to be cooperative and work together.
Remember when Notch talked about the three SMP game modes? PvP, Co-op, and Adventure? I think that servers should be able to be specifically one mode, and have specific rules accordingly. As such, PvP players can join a server where everyone wants to kill eachother, I can join a server where we work together to build impressive structures, anyone can decide to play adventure mode and go treasure hunting, and servers can be neutral/allow for custom scripting, like a "castles" server type where you join a team and then get a good chunk of in game time to build up fortifications, before the barrier between your bases is removed and you battle. It would (in theory) make everyone happy.
No, you had it right the first time, they're intended to stop griefing. Are you *really* going to start killing and destroying **** the moment you log in? Don't even tell me you're not going to at least make a little hovel for yourself and start mining for steel. SMP won't be a deathmatch, it's Survival. There will probably be servers where that kind of thing is allowed and even encouraged, but I imagine most admins are going to want some kind of semi-structured environment. You would only need to play for part of a day, or maybe two to gain an admin's trust. This is no different from creative mode.
Different servers will have different policies, this is just one idea for maintaining a fun (yes, really) PvP environment that isn't just griefers griefing griefers griefing griefers. If you can't be assed to stay on a server and contribute SOMETHING to it for a few hours before you can pillage to your hearts content on that server any time you want then you should probably just grief creative servers.
I plan on playing around on a few servers, then (Hopefully) create a server for my clan, then we could create stuff.... By playing around, I mean doing whatever I feel like on a few servers... I will restrain myself for my clan server, but I would make a few events where the spawn point is set in the middle of an arena..... which will be awesome ^^
...You're not reading, are you? When you first log into a server YOU can be attacked or stolen from, and you're allowed to attack in defense. You're free to attack and kill anyone firing arrows at you or running off with your diamonds, but you're not allowed to make offensive actions like starting a fight with someone minding their own business or burning the thief's house down after you already gave them the ol' one-two with your diamond blade. This doesn't make it any safer for you.
This isn't a hard concept to understand. I swear it's like you people haven't played a MUD or any game with a reasonably developed PvP system.
Do not wallow do not stall
Time waits for none at all
Your allowance may crawl,
It may fly or even vanish
But none will seem more lavished
Than time lost to all.
You're assuming that signs of player habitation won't be obvious in most cases, it's not hard to stand on a hill and notice large clusters of torches or deforested areas. Or massive towers. I seriously doubt that every player is going to turtle underground in a super secret base just for security reasons, eventually someone is going to want to build aboveground. What fun would that be?
Oh, and if theres a spawn cage on a survival server I will instantly leave it. Its good on creative but survival?
Really?
I REALLY doubt it man. I mean creative mode is plagued with griefers due to ease of access to it because it is free. A griefer would have to be very dedicated to fork out alot of money to grief.