I hope there is absolutely no PVP at all. Or, if you kill someone, instaban from every server. I want to fight off a million creepers with friends. I do not want to have to spend all my time defending my fort from malicious players who just want to kill you for sport.
OH NO! SOMEBODY PLAYS THE GAME DIFFERENTLY THAN I DO! I WANT HIM OUT OF HERE RIGHT NOW, NEVER TO BE SEEN ANYWHERE EVER AGAIN!
I'm honestly not worried at all about "griefers" destroying my stuff or looting my stashes. Personally, I will disperse my important loot in chests across a large area, the only pieces I will keep easily accessible will be building materials that very easy to obtain again (wood/stone/dirt/sand).
As for my creations being destroyed? Well, I'll mostly be playing on my own server ZenCraft. If I'm playing as a regular player and not as an owner then I'm under the assurance that my rules against being a douche will serve to keep the server mostly clean of "griefers".
Here are the rules about destruction of other peoples property and looting:
- You are free to loot chests that you find guarded or not
- You are not free to destroy property that is unguarded
- You are not free to burn down structures unless the owner is present and therefore able to counter this
- You may not target or harass specific users (ie. Repeatedly killing, or preventing them constructing)
Each offence's severity of punishment will be determined on a case to case basis. Ranging from a verbal warning to a ban and in extreme cases an irrevocable permanent ban.
Players are advised to join cities or work in groups as protection IS your own business. OPs obliged only provide resolutions to heated conflicts, they are NOT your personal army.
Do any of you realise.
What this is about?
The fun isn't watching people try and kill you but you are on a tall tower with diamond armour and a bow.its fighting pyros who just set fire to half your base and fighting as the sun sets. The field is illuminated by the destruction of many hours of lonely harvesting. You lay poised. Sword in hand. They come running with mounts and bows. You quickly create a trench and wait. Suddenly a claymore trap devised by you sends half their troop head over heels. Landing harshly. Struggling to move on they wait for their freinds to complete the job.. Suddenly you hear more hooves and you instinctively look behind. Through the burning remains of your once proud castle comes a rain of creeper riding hooligans dashing through the flames There ones who burned your house. Your thoughts go to your comrades You will never get the image of your dearest friend behind a locked door struggling to get out as flames closed in around him. You raise your sword. Bandits on one side. Pyros on the other. The fight was on.
Ahem. Sorry got carried away then
TL:DR
Point of survival is epic battles, last stands and stealth infiltrations.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
TAC: 1:3
"He who sees thy challenge shall be victorious."
Do any of you realise.
What this is about?
The fun isn't watching people try and kill you but you are on a tall tower with diamond armour and a bow.its fighting pyros who just set fire to half your base and fighting as the sun sets. The field is illuminated by the destruction of many hours of lonely harvesting. You lay poised. Sword in hand. They come running with mounts and bows. You quickly create a trench and wait. Suddenly a claymore trap devised by you sends half their troop head over heels. Landing harshly. Struggling to move on they wait for their freinds to complete the job.. Suddenly you hear more hooves and you instinctively look behind. Through the burning remains of your once proud castle comes a rain of creeper riding hooligans dashing through the flames There ones who burned your house. Your thoughts go to your comrades You will never get the image of your dearest friend behind a locked door struggling to get out as flames closed in around him. You raise your sword. Bandits on one side. Pyros on the other. The fight was on.
Ahem. Sorry got carried away then
TL:DR
Point of survival is epic battles, last stands and stealth infiltrations.
As cool as all that sounds, you will never encounter anything like that in SMP :tongue.gif: It just isn't how it works.
I will go over a few things though:
1. Land claim flags
- They should not completely prevent any destruction/building by other players, it would just take longer for others
- The flags themselves can be destroyed
- You cannot place a flag within a range of another flag greater then the actual claim radius(allowing a "dead mans land")
- Each player can only have one placed flag.
2. Coop survival
- Optional server mode, but otherwise would function the same as regular SMP
- Direct PvP not possible, however there is no restrictions on block destruction/building
(otherwise how can you "coop" if you cant help people build up)
3. Building/destruction
- Player "build" groups can be formed
- Groups are persistant, like a guild
- Anything placed by someone in the build group takes 5x longer to be destroyed by those who are not in the group
- Placing blocks still possible no restrictions
- TNT is 75% effective on blocks placed by another build group(instead of destroying 4 blocks, it destroys 3)
- Fire has no change, regardless of who placed the blocks
I am not a huge fan of PvP, however, in this case, I believe hard restrictions is not the answer, soft restrictions are fine like I have listed above however, if it takes 1 second to destroy a stone block with a diamond pickaxe, itll take 5 seconds to destroy someone elses stone block, much longer then this kind of makes it pointless.
I mean placing blocks is instant, planning what to place where takes a bit longer, but by increasing the time for someone else to destroy those blocks, yet not by too much, it prevents a griefer from simply coming in and destroying everything, yet still allows combat and raiding to be viable.
PATCHING HOLES IS NOT HARD!
Rebuilding the whole structure can be a pain, if it really does become a problem, you can just change servers, or stay on a private server.
Oh and for the record, apart from coop and letting people know this is "your" building area, I am not for claim flags, theres no need for them imo, just make blocks you place take longer to destroy by others, but if they do get added, it should work something like what I suggested above.
I've stated this in IRC, albeit nobody listened, but personally I think, due to the more and more technologically advanced the game becomes as it develops, that, perhaps server-specifically, there should be, eventually, some form of dedication system, knowledge system, or if the case has to be, a form of level system.
Bare with me a moment.
Something that occurs immediately is that for a coop relative game, there's really no need for coop. Currency, such as gold, is pointless since you can very well dedicate your own time to attaining something your own way, perhaps more efficiently, and removing all value of any other player, other than people to help you do what YOU want to do.
Assume some form of dedication level system like runescape, wherein you have to break more wood before you can craft wood, then break stone before you can craft stone, and so on. The more material you gather, the more complex the tools you can make, hopefully limiting something like making a switch to plop next to a door just to open it with no hassle.
Or, perhaps a better idea. Assuming gold can be turned into gold coins, and used to purchase supplies from other players; perhaps you can only craft what you first "Dismantle", or something similar, and perhaps currently breakable objects such as buttons, levers, or circuits, can somehow be set as "locked" tiles by the creator. Now, assuming players can no longer get their hands on levers or uber tools, this should, in theory, limit the amount of greifing and theft possible to get around lock mechanisms.
Server specific of course; and no, I don't think it's a good or even easily possible system. Just a theory. A very bad one.
I hope there is absolutely no PVP at all. Or, if you kill someone, instaban from every server. I want to fight off a million creepers with friends. I do not want to have to spend all my time defending my fort from malicious players who just want to kill you for sport.
Go back to Call of Duty if you want to kill someone.
I hope you lock your doors tonight.
Anyways, Land claim flags= Useless. They just make it so people who should be playing creative take up land in survival. I like the idea of after being offline for 5 minutes your blocks become harder to destroy, but not destroyable altogether. I think notch should add stair blocks/ladders/signs/doors/pressure plates and red **** to creative, so these people can stop BAAAWWWing over pvp in survival.
Not pvp you say?
awwright.
Makes it easy for me to take stuff out of your chest, and press up against you while you mine so i get the ore. All while I am impossible to stop.
If all you want to build why dont you go to creative? It's called survival multiplayer not "everyone build and do nothing but the same thing as creative but take longer online! "
What does wanting actual online pvp have to do with using a cheat engine to get 9999 tnt? I'm not supporting hackers, if you even read any of my posts I never mentioned hacking. Obviously if one player is "griefing" and I don't just mean playing the game in the way it's supposed to, then an op can step in and ban him from the server. Each server will be different if you want a ***** server then go to one with butt-hurt ops that ban everyone. If you want actual survival online then go to one where there aren't any restrictions other than obvious griefing like water spamming someone's base and etc.
Fyi, castles weren't owned by 1 person. If you're building something huge you'll need a clan or group of friends to protect/build it. Bases have to be the size that you can protect if you're only yourself then you'll be forced to have a small cabin in the woods.
If all you want to kill everything in sight why dont you go to any of the thousands of other killing games? It's called survival multiplayer not "everyone hide and kill anyone who is foolish to think that survival multiplayer will be about people interacting "
What does wanting actual online pvp have to do with just building non-functional structures but taking longer to do it? I'm not supporting people who don't do anything but build, if you even read any of my posts I never mentioned not playing. Obviously if one player is "not building" and I don't just mean playing the game building in the way you're supposed to, then a douche can step in and camp him. Each server will be different if you want a recluse server then go to one with ops that do nothing. If you want actual interaction online then go to one where there aren't any things preventing destroying any structure above land like deletion times for blocks and etc.
Quote from TheMilkMan »
I think notch needs to add modding support so that way we can make what we want, I'd get bored of the same thing anyways, cooperatively surviving against monsters would be fun at times and other times I want to go online and survive against other players. I'm not all against the ideas of the anti-pvp guys, but they're trying to force their ideas on everyone else.
I think notch needs to add modding support so that way we can make what we want, I'd get bored of the same thing anyways, being a recluse while surviving in a small room would be fun at times and other times I want to go online and cooperate with other players to build a structure with working parts that creative doesn't have. I'm not all against the ideas of the anti-cooperatin guys, but they're trying to force their ideas on everyone else.
Quick tip: Multiplayer means multiplayer. There are multiple players. These multiple players can all attack the same person. Band together with people to protect your base. 4v1 is a hard fight for the 1, and if he succeeds, I feel he deserves to take everything you own because he is better than you at fighting.
I swear I run into the same people all the time. What is so hard to understand that there are at least three classes of people here, and there needs to be a system where all three of them can coexist in the same server at once?
You have your die-hard PvP people here who care nothing for building and only want to do enough to build a sword and armor and hack away at each other. You have your "Last Stand" survivors who want to build some large castle and hold up against the yearly creeper migration. You have your "Creative+" people, who want to build like in Creative but with more time/resource limitations so there's a bit more added challenge. You also have people whom I heavily despise but accept as a valid play style, the "Raiders" who want to raid either the "Last Stand" or "Creative+" types for wealth, to do what with I have no idea.
I simply cannot believe that Notch should cater to any one of these people, as it would exclude the rest.
To explain the first sentence, I've been arguing with a guy about how rife high level ganking of lower level players was in a mutually-played MMO and how it was the status quo for a decaying community which would soon implode if nothing was done to reset the precedent. At time of writing we're still arguing.
There is a system to deter those people. See energon? See TNT? The PVPers that aren't smart will be tripped up by a combination of the two. For those who are, well, if they can get past your defenses and kill all of your guards, you deserve to lose.
Even a very stupid but determined PvPer could navigate any trap you can throw at him. Infinite respawns guarantees that. Even if he continually blunders into your traps, unless you are there to actively counter him he will eventually bulldoze his way through. I don't know about you, but even if he gets bored after going through half of them, I don't consider resetting my traps each time I relog to be very fun, if fun at all.
What if I log off for a week to go on vacation? With no protections other than traps, that pretty much guarantees that anything I had of value will be gone by week's end. You can't seriously consider that kind of dynamic fun.
Not pvp you say?
awwright.
Makes it easy for me to take stuff out of your chest, and press up against you while you mine so i get the ore. All while I am impossible to stop.
See the problem?
This. Also, I can run up behind you with TNT or a bucket of lava...
Or wait until you log out, or tunnel through your entrance while you're mining, or just **** it all up with a few blocks of TNT it took me about 10 seconds to steal from a poorly-defended player...
I'm cool with PVP, but only if there's at least a semblance of protection for your blocks.
Quote from Someothertube »
There is a system to deter those people. See energon? See TNT? The PVPers that aren't smart will be tripped up by a combination of the two. For those who are, well, if they can get past your defenses and kill all of your guards, you deserve to lose.
What guards? Your friends? Won't they be offline at the same time as you?
That minecraft clan you joined? The one with 10 members?
What defenses? With a wooden pick, any griefer with an IQ above room temperature can ignore all doors and tunnel straight through your walls. Unless you trap the perimeter of you entire base- oh wait, they can go through the ceiling. Never mind. It's impossible to defend from sappers without completely submerging- oh wait they can place some blocks and create a tunnel in 20 seconds. Never mind. It's COMPLETELY impossible to defend against sappers without a constant armed guard patrolling your entire base.
I was looking forward to SMP, but since everyone apparently is going to run around destroying other people's **** because it doesn't fit their rigid theme for minecraftZurikithen I'll probably get around to hosting a private logic server on that spare Dell in the basement.
I love how you think he's being serious.
I like doors. They could be a viable alternative to random holes in the walls as base entrances.
As for my creations being destroyed? Well, I'll mostly be playing on my own server ZenCraft. If I'm playing as a regular player and not as an owner then I'm under the assurance that my rules against being a douche will serve to keep the server mostly clean of "griefers".
Here are the rules about destruction of other peoples property and looting:
- You are free to loot chests that you find guarded or not
- You are not free to destroy property that is unguarded
- You are not free to burn down structures unless the owner is present and therefore able to counter this
- You may not target or harass specific users (ie. Repeatedly killing, or preventing them constructing)
Each offence's severity of punishment will be determined on a case to case basis. Ranging from a verbal warning to a ban and in extreme cases an irrevocable permanent ban.
Players are advised to join cities or work in groups as protection IS your own business. OPs obliged only provide resolutions to heated conflicts, they are NOT your personal army.
My Pathfinder Campaign for the denizens of MCF: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1939035-where-are-we-sandbox-pathfinder-campaign-ooc/
What this is about?
The fun isn't watching people try and kill you but you are on a tall tower with diamond armour and a bow.its fighting pyros who just set fire to half your base and fighting as the sun sets. The field is illuminated by the destruction of many hours of lonely harvesting. You lay poised. Sword in hand. They come running with mounts and bows. You quickly create a trench and wait. Suddenly a claymore trap devised by you sends half their troop head over heels. Landing harshly. Struggling to move on they wait for their freinds to complete the job.. Suddenly you hear more hooves and you instinctively look behind. Through the burning remains of your once proud castle comes a rain of creeper riding hooligans dashing through the flames There ones who burned your house. Your thoughts go to your comrades You will never get the image of your dearest friend behind a locked door struggling to get out as flames closed in around him. You raise your sword. Bandits on one side. Pyros on the other. The fight was on.
Ahem. Sorry got carried away then
TL:DR
Point of survival is epic battles, last stands and stealth infiltrations.
TAC: 1:3
"He who sees thy challenge shall be victorious."
As cool as all that sounds, you will never encounter anything like that in SMP :tongue.gif: It just isn't how it works.
I will go over a few things though:
1. Land claim flags
- They should not completely prevent any destruction/building by other players, it would just take longer for others
- The flags themselves can be destroyed
- You cannot place a flag within a range of another flag greater then the actual claim radius(allowing a "dead mans land")
- Each player can only have one placed flag.
2. Coop survival
- Optional server mode, but otherwise would function the same as regular SMP
- Direct PvP not possible, however there is no restrictions on block destruction/building
(otherwise how can you "coop" if you cant help people build up)
3. Building/destruction
- Player "build" groups can be formed
- Groups are persistant, like a guild
- Anything placed by someone in the build group takes 5x longer to be destroyed by those who are not in the group
- Placing blocks still possible no restrictions
- TNT is 75% effective on blocks placed by another build group(instead of destroying 4 blocks, it destroys 3)
- Fire has no change, regardless of who placed the blocks
I am not a huge fan of PvP, however, in this case, I believe hard restrictions is not the answer, soft restrictions are fine like I have listed above however, if it takes 1 second to destroy a stone block with a diamond pickaxe, itll take 5 seconds to destroy someone elses stone block, much longer then this kind of makes it pointless.
I mean placing blocks is instant, planning what to place where takes a bit longer, but by increasing the time for someone else to destroy those blocks, yet not by too much, it prevents a griefer from simply coming in and destroying everything, yet still allows combat and raiding to be viable.
PATCHING HOLES IS NOT HARD!
Rebuilding the whole structure can be a pain, if it really does become a problem, you can just change servers, or stay on a private server.
Oh and for the record, apart from coop and letting people know this is "your" building area, I am not for claim flags, theres no need for them imo, just make blocks you place take longer to destroy by others, but if they do get added, it should work something like what I suggested above.
Bare with me a moment.
Something that occurs immediately is that for a coop relative game, there's really no need for coop. Currency, such as gold, is pointless since you can very well dedicate your own time to attaining something your own way, perhaps more efficiently, and removing all value of any other player, other than people to help you do what YOU want to do.
Assume some form of dedication level system like runescape, wherein you have to break more wood before you can craft wood, then break stone before you can craft stone, and so on. The more material you gather, the more complex the tools you can make, hopefully limiting something like making a switch to plop next to a door just to open it with no hassle.
Or, perhaps a better idea. Assuming gold can be turned into gold coins, and used to purchase supplies from other players; perhaps you can only craft what you first "Dismantle", or something similar, and perhaps currently breakable objects such as buttons, levers, or circuits, can somehow be set as "locked" tiles by the creator. Now, assuming players can no longer get their hands on levers or uber tools, this should, in theory, limit the amount of greifing and theft possible to get around lock mechanisms.
Server specific of course; and no, I don't think it's a good or even easily possible system. Just a theory. A very bad one.
I hope you lock your doors tonight.
Anyways, Land claim flags= Useless. They just make it so people who should be playing creative take up land in survival. I like the idea of after being offline for 5 minutes your blocks become harder to destroy, but not destroyable altogether. I think notch should add stair blocks/ladders/signs/doors/pressure plates and red **** to creative, so these people can stop BAAAWWWing over pvp in survival.
THANK YOU
first person to call us raiders
Anyways, I guess so. But along the line when somebody gets raided, they make their trap better, although the basic idea is still there.
It's just a matter of time before we break in again though.
and yeah i guess that will happen
awwright.
Makes it easy for me to take stuff out of your chest, and press up against you while you mine so i get the ore. All while I am impossible to stop.
See the problem?
HAVE YOU PLAYED CREATIVE LATELY?
Quick tip: Multiplayer means multiplayer. There are multiple players. These multiple players can all attack the same person. Band together with people to protect your base. 4v1 is a hard fight for the 1, and if he succeeds, I feel he deserves to take everything you own because he is better than you at fighting.
You have your die-hard PvP people here who care nothing for building and only want to do enough to build a sword and armor and hack away at each other. You have your "Last Stand" survivors who want to build some large castle and hold up against the yearly creeper migration. You have your "Creative+" people, who want to build like in Creative but with more time/resource limitations so there's a bit more added challenge. You also have people whom I heavily despise but accept as a valid play style, the "Raiders" who want to raid either the "Last Stand" or "Creative+" types for wealth, to do what with I have no idea.
I simply cannot believe that Notch should cater to any one of these people, as it would exclude the rest.
To explain the first sentence, I've been arguing with a guy about how rife high level ganking of lower level players was in a mutually-played MMO and how it was the status quo for a decaying community which would soon implode if nothing was done to reset the precedent. At time of writing we're still arguing.
What if I log off for a week to go on vacation? With no protections other than traps, that pretty much guarantees that anything I had of value will be gone by week's end. You can't seriously consider that kind of dynamic fun.
Or wait until you log out, or tunnel through your entrance while you're mining, or just **** it all up with a few blocks of TNT it took me about 10 seconds to steal from a poorly-defended player...
I'm cool with PVP, but only if there's at least a semblance of protection for your blocks.
What guards? Your friends? Won't they be offline at the same time as you?
That minecraft clan you joined? The one with 10 members?
What defenses? With a wooden pick, any griefer with an IQ above room temperature can ignore all doors and tunnel straight through your walls. Unless you trap the perimeter of you entire base- oh wait, they can go through the ceiling. Never mind. It's impossible to defend from sappers without completely submerging- oh wait they can place some blocks and create a tunnel in 20 seconds. Never mind. It's COMPLETELY impossible to defend against sappers without a constant armed guard patrolling your entire base.
I was looking forward to SMP, but since everyone apparently is going to run around destroying other people's **** because it doesn't fit their rigid theme for minecraftZurikithen I'll probably get around to hosting a private logic server on that spare Dell in the basement.